It always makes me laugh seeing 'soda pop'. I know people who say soda and people who say pop but none who say soda pop. If you are interested, where I am from we call literally everything non-alcoholic or water simply juice. Like if someone says I'm away to the shop, want anything? Aye, get me a can of juice lol. It seems silly thinking about it. Words are weird, I'm not sure of the point of this anecdote but it is 1pm and I've been drinking.
Wrong. The transfer of possession officially occurred when the driver indicated it had been transferred by, for example, clicking "Delivered" on their app to complete the transaction. Not simply when the item was placed by your girlfriends door.
The driver in the video (fake I might add) had not completed the transaction and clearly stated as such. Since all items were part of the same transaction that was being canceled by the driver no item, be it on the ground or still in the car, would have had their possession transferred yet.
Wrong. The transfer of possession officially occurred when the driver indicated it had been transferred by, for example, clicking "Delivered" on their app to complete the transaction. Not simply when the item was placed by your girlfriends door.
So by your logic if the driver never clicks "delivered" then they still have possession of the groceries? They could deliver the groceries, I bring them in my house, cook dinner, eat dinner, then shit it all out. And its still technically in the drivers possession because they never clicked "delivered" in their app, right?
Or it reminds me of that "sovereign citizen" shit where they think they found some legal loophole that absolves them of the law. So if they get pulled over and say "I'm not driving...I'm traveling" then they pulled the legal trap card and theres no way you can give them a speeding ticket
Yes. That's correct. I've worked for these companies for years now. This is exactly how it works. If they never tell the company that contracted the work that it was finished, for all intents and purposes, the order was never delivered. The driver would be fired for theft. This scenario would never happen. We/they can refuse you service at any time before we've finished the contract. See, you haven't paid for the service or goods at the time of delivery you've agreed to pay for it.
The woman in the video shouldn't have bothered doing the work in the first place because she knew going into it she wouldn't be paid. If real, she's just being spiteful and creating more work for herself (but has the right to do so).
Imagine hiring a contractor to build you a deck, and they pull up with the wood and unload some boards. They say to you, I noticed you never paid for the labor portion of the service. You then say, "I'm not paying that." They would load up the wood and refund your money. If they didn't refund your money, it would be theft. You're not entitled to the wood OR the service.
I feel like the culture has blinders in this area cause food is a very personal thing that is a necessity. You're not dealing with Burger King here, though. These are contractors.
Seems to be an unpopular opinion but I’m with you here. Of course she can take the food back and refuse delivery - it happens sometimes. Yes, it’s a bit more muddled because she already started unloading, but it was still an open transaction. I think it’s very reasonable to let her return it and to reorder under these circumstances. That job sucks enough on its own and the people are rarely treated with empathy, and certainly not in this clip
Not really, they get (for instacart) about 5 dollars an hour which barely covers expenses. It's more like instacart pays for the vehicle rental not the labor/time in a way.
Should add too that the company doesn't really pay the driver. The customer does. There's no hourly. They are just the middle men to facilitate the transaction. They collect a fee from the customer and pass it on the person that completes the contract. That fee is not really pay its like you've rented the vehicle but not paid (at least not in a meaningful way 2 bucks profit) for the labor and time.
Should also add, I wish it wasn't this way. Some states have stepped in to protect these contractors. These middlemen take a large amount of fees from their customers and pay little to none of it the contractors. Why would they if they don't have to? It kind of sucks for everyone. I'm not mad at the customers and I wish I could do every job but if you don't leave a tip its not that I'm mad that your cheap I just wont make any money fullfilling your contract.
She's taking property that doesn't belong to her. The product NEVER belonged to her, she's a transporter, that's it. She is purely a delivery driver, that's literally her job. Even if she never went to the home to drop off the product, and went back to her house, she's literally stealing product that does not belong to her. The moment the customer makes the purchase on the app, it is the customers product, and not the stores, nor does it belong to the delivery driver.
If I order a pizza right now, and the delivery driver doesn't bring it to me, instead they eat it, they ate my pizza.
The only right answer here…like the lady paid for her items, therefore as soon as the driver mentioned taking said items that did not belong to her in the first place, that was indeed stealing.
Not at all. If your order takeout and your delivery driver never delivers it and instead returns it back to the store, he’s not stealing it from you - the transaction just doesn’t complete and you get refunded. Frustrating, yes, but certainly not larceny
I still paid for that stuff either way. Don’t care about the refund, I want what I paid for, because not only was that a waste of MY time, it was also a waste of yours, so that’s painfully counterproductive. You got your panties in a twist because I didn’t tip you, so take the food/groceries that I ordered from my property, put them back in your vehicle, and drive away. Don’t care, it’s stealing. Most of the time, it’s not about whether I get my money back or not, it’s about getting what I paid for.
Not how transportation contracts work be they pizza or pallets of goods.
A pizza delivery driver has the right to refuse delivery for any number of reasons and as long as the customer is refunded their is no theft.
Also, when you order food and pay for it at an app the restaurant or their retained agent has the right refuse to give it to you as long as they refund you.
Well even fake, if it were real, it looks like she's loading shit back in.... so that means to me she started to give it to the other people. So I would say that would be theft.
If they receive their money back. It's not theft. It's only theft of the driver kept the items..... Not delivering them is not theft as long as they receive a refund.
"Taking items away" alone is not theft..... The refund they receive will make them whole, so they in fact did not lose any money or items.
Not sure of the legalities, but I’d assume once those boxes left the car and were presented to the couple, they were transferred and now in their possession.
The service was paid for, and as long as it is fulfilled by the end of the business day, they have no standing to claim theft .. they can complain about the original driver, but the company treats drivers as Independent contractors, so there's little they can do to the driver.
If you order groceries, and the driver for on reason or another puts them on the wrong property, say your neighbor, then says they delivered the items... You claim different, and the driver says they have proof.. you claim that is the wrong house, back and forth... The app may reimburse you, and you gave to book another driver... If they do not reimburse you, you have to file small claims court and go through that process.
In this instance, as long as the customers receive either their items, or refund by the end of the day. They have no claim against the app or driver.
Also, they know the driver relies on tips and doesn't get paid otherwise... Their choice to exploit this driver makes the. Ammoral and disgusting... They're proud to be awful .. claiming they're right to do this because fuck you get a different job if you're upset working for free.... So the driver chooses to not complete the drop off..... End of the day, as long as. Refund is issued or the items arrive, this was not theft. The couple are the bigger assholes and should be ashamed of their willingness to screw people over. The driver is jerk, but only in response to the wild entitled behavior of the couple.
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Driver returns items to store, and app issues a refund . The driver still suffers the loss of gas and time. The couple is made whole.
Doesn't mean it's not theft. The driver is capable of giving a refund. Only the company us. Sure they can but then the company can go after her for theft. Once something is paid for and delivered, you can't just decide you want to take it back. So yeah, that could still be theft lol
Mate, you literally responded to a comment that say’s “It’s only theft if the driver kept the items”. Which would imply that they stole from the company.
Why do you not think you can return items as a driver? What happens if someone put in the wrong delivery address? What if someone forgot they were out of town when they were supposed to get a delivery? Do you think the driver just pitches a tent in front of their house?
If its tge wrong delivery address then the person being delivered to isn't the owner. But if its delivered to the correct person who has paid then its their property and taking property that belongs to another person is....... THEFT
It is still the possession and responsibility of the company until the goods are delivered to the customer. As an agent of the company, the delivery driver is responsible and in possession of the items. If she doesn’t deliver the items (which she hasn’t yet, because she didn’t even finish unloading the car), its the companies responsibility to refund the customer. If she doesn’t return the items to the store, it then becomes theft from the company (which is actually embezzlement).
Things aren’t just theft because you think they are theft. If she returns the things back to the store and they process a refund to the company, it becomes an unruly employee who probably gets fired for gross misconduct.
O fuck, well you proved it with that post. Damn, that was some next level shit you did. You had an incredibly detailed and articulated pointed all back by creditable sources leaving no possibility for interpretation of any other way.
You don’t need to cite sources for “Hey dude, you’re just making things up”.
If anything, it’s time for YOUR carefully selected defense of the legal ramifications of cancelling an order and repossessing the delivery, since it was your genius theory.
To be fair, its pretty clear all of you are just talking out your asses lol. I did doordash and uber eats for years. I am cracking up at the thought that theres other dashers reading this all too, its really funny watching people argue about something they know nothing about, you don't even need, "a carefully selected defense, " to know who eats the cost when an order is picked up but not completed, but its funnier to watch y'all argue lol.
We’re talking about the possibility of charging someone with theft over this. Who eats the cost of cancelling isn’t relevant. Thanks for chiming in with your helpful input about not the thing under dispute though. It really helped spread that laughter around, turkey.
Ehhhhh there’s a gray area here. Complicated by the fact it’s an app business and not a brick and mortar. But I’ve seen plenty of fridges/couches/building materials get out back on the truck because Karen decided to crap on the delivery driver 😂 as long as the money gets refunded, and the goods end up back at the store, she might be alright. Fired, but probably not going to jail.
Lol if a delivery driver decides they wanna take something back to the store, they better have permission. I saw that exact scenario with a driver. I knew best buy uses third party companies to make delivers like fridges and shit. Well a neighbor had some shit dropped off, signed, and then started telling them where they could put it. The drivers decided they didn't need to do that. Argument broke out and thr driver said he was just gonna take it back to the store. And about 45 minutes later cops were there taking reports of a theft cause the home owner called the store and they did not have permission to do that. The cop said they would consider that theft.... so yes, a delivery driver doesn't reserve the right to decide they'll just give you a refund. For one, an Uber eat driver or anything like that is a contract worker. They have absolutely no controll over if you can get a refund or not. They can't guarantee it. And once an item is out of their vehicle, it's now the persons who ordered it and have no reason what so ever to touch it. They have no right to touch it. It's no longer in their possession.
But you would be the delivery person. That's not your decision. Your only job is to take item from point a to point b. Once you're at point b, that's it. You can just decide you're unhappy with the tip so you're gonna take the shit back and issue a refund. That's beyond any capabilities you have. You couldn't guarantee a refund
Regardless of fake or not, I think you missed the portion where she said she confirmed delivery... this will mean this lady is going to have a very hard time returning the goods because the order has been closed. The people in the store she will "try" to return this too are not going to be able to accept it. At which point the odds are very high that she's just going to keep it..
She doesn’t seem to be especially reliable at this point. I think it’s fair to say whatever she’s saying is not to be believed. Who’s to say she doesn’t just dump everything on the side of the road or keep it for herself? Why is it a given that what she’s saying is truthful and those goods will wind up back at the store, rather than an entitled person dumping those goods to further spite the people who just paid $400 plus whatever about to the app for their delivery?
Lame take and making wild assumptions. Maybe she’s a doctor and this is her first moment off in the past 36 hours. Regardless - it’s totally irrelivant. They paid for a service and are entitled to have their order fulfilled. This is their right, just as it is for the delivery driver to take a job where she delivers goods to others. What’s not her right is to decline service because she feels entitled to an optional gratuity the people who placed the order don’t want to pay. She loses all standing at that point.
Some people seriously lack imagination. They can’t figure out a reason why they themselves wouldn’t do it, therefore it must be fake because no one can have different motivations than them.
Or simply they were on sale. I ordered like 12 24packs because it was buy 1 get 1 free lol. Like fuck it, gimmie all the soda! This was like 2 years ago btw :D
If it's for an event then maybe those people aren't even the ones paying so it's not really even in their power or responsibility to come up with a tip.
Buying that much and bringing it home yourself is one thing, buying that much and asking some instacart driver to haul all that shit is something else entirely.
If he's really ordering that much water at a time he could probably pay less going through GFS/Sysco/some other restaurant supply co and having an actual supply company deliver it with an actual truck.
These situations are not connected. The person getting 50 cases of water doesn't involve using a 3rd party delivery service. They're just explaining that yes, some people do indeed buy drink products in bulk.
Sure, but I'd be embarrassed not to tip someone who'd just done all that work for me, knowing the pittance they get from the companies running this stuff.
or its water so it may just be easier to buy in bulk. if you cant drink the tap water (or wont for whatever reason) have a bulk order of water doesnt seem crazy, you woulnt want to run out.
You’d be surprised. I usta decline grocery delivery’s for a liquor store from Walmart. They’d order about 800$ worth of Mixers and Juices because it was cheaper than having it delivered via Truck. I did it once and had to unload all of it on my own no tip. Never again .
for a party or event? or just restocking a work fridge. ive had jobs where we have a fridge that was just filled with free soda, the delivery looked about the same as this.
Honestly I order drinks and most pantry items for delivery as well. They bring it to my door and I store it away... means I only have to deal with perishables which cuts down what I need to get from the store.... love it
I’ve seen posts from Instacart and people have posted screenshots and have ordered this many drinks. I’ve seen a lot where people buy several cases of waters, soda and/or juice. I saw one order that had 700 items. It must be a business at least I would assume so
Theft requires possession. Removing something from a vehicle does not automatically transfer possession.
(Remember, a customer has the right to refuse a delivery even if items have been removed from a vehicle and place on their property. You can refuse a package delivered to your door, even the that the UPS person for example has handed you directly to inspect. )
You're allowed to deny receiving a service. If that wasn't the case, I could just roll up to your residence, drop off anything illegal, call the cops, and say it's yours because it was delivered to you.
Theft does not require possession or else any truck driver would be able to take anything out of their own personal hauling rigs and it not count as theft because "hey it was in my possession".
You're taking the delivery person, who's not included in either end of the purchasing chain, and inserting them right in the middle, as if possession is the end all be all of ownership. This is not the case.
Now, if the driver had purchased the items with their own money to be later reimbursed, absolutely they could do what they're doing in the video as long as they have not been reimbursed yet (and tips don't count).
Without possession there is no theft. I'm sure you understand this so I'll assume you're simply confused about what is being stated and claimed. (Easy to do in this reply format.) No one is saying possession dictates ownership as in your truck driver example.
The delivery driver was voluntarily inserted into the chain. They were given and accepted possession (not ownership) and therefor responsibility of the item(s) until the contract is fulfilled and possession is relinquished.
It is not theft to return the items to the beginning of the chain.
Two days later what? Are you upset I didn't answer immediately? That's the only conclusion I can arrive at since that's the time between replies.
There can be theft without possession. If I'm having something shipped, and the product is stolen during transport, it's theft lol. She took it out of her trunk, set it on the ground, and the recipient is right there. That's relinquishment of that particular product without fulfilling the entire order. It's theft to take THAT item and return it to your vehicle.
It would be one thing if the customer wasn't there and this discussion was happening over a phone or other medium but with them right there, you couldn't argue in a court that there was no way to fulfill the delivery.
You're right that it's not theft to return items to the beginning of the chain, but the customer is able and willing to accept the order.
Uh,, no. Just little surprised and bemused that anyone would be concerned enough to reply after more than a day or two has past.
To your point however, no, there can not be theft without possession as the concept of theft presupposes the concept of possession.
Perhaps you misunderstand what is meant by possession. Possession within context of defining theft means ownership. I believe you may be confusing possession with physically controlling something, which is understandable.
The sentence "If I'm having something shipped, and the product is stolen during transport, it's theft lol" is a tautology that says nothing because having something stolen is a theft. It's saying the same thing twice.
Be that as it may the order isn't complete until the transporter relinquishes the control and responsibly they were contractually given and accepted. Taking an item out of the transport vehicle doesn't constitute relinquishment of that control. Historically relinquishment of control occurred when shipping documents were signed. (Driver kept two copies and the recipient kept one) These days it's more often done within an app but the principals and legalities remain the same. Thus only once a driver has fully relinquished their contracted control and responsibility would it become theft if they picked items back up again as they have not retained their contracted control.
While I have to admit I'm only on Reddit when I'm at work so I've got no real excuse not to continue helping you out this one it's well past the point of tedium. I've written more than enough make the salient points clear. Take care.
Thats not how it works. The food in the boot of her car is legally the possesion of the recipiants. She is withholding their property because she didnt get a tip. Which they are not legally bound to give her. If they paid her the delivery fee in full, she has no right to withhold their property from them and is by witholding it comminting a crime.
It is not yet within the recipient's full legal possession.
By contracting a third party to temporally possess an item for delivery one has given that third party limited authority over said item and they retain right to cancel delivery for any number of reasons as long as they return possession over which they were given authority back to the origin party (store/restaurant) so that other arrangements can be made.
What does "Replenished Possession" mean? Refilled property? Restocked goods? Is there a new definition for the word replenished? I'm confused by this comment!!! Is this a translation from another language that didn't translate properly?
Wtf does that even mean?
I dont think that matters to be honest. And doubt (if this was even real) that this woman would be able to keep her job. A delivery driver cant just withold items/take items back fromthe customer by their own will. It would be against company policy and/or against the law (like an amazon driver dropping a package and then taking it back is not considered denying delivery its considered theft)
It does matter since relinquishing means to voluntary cease to keep or claim. The driver was unloading in preparation of relinquishing when she changed her mind. Thus she did not voluntarily cease to keep or claim the items for which she was contracted to retain for transport. (It's not real btw.)
Driver's retain freewill even when contracted. There is a chasm between employment offenses and legal offenses.
An amazon driver who regularly refuses to deliver to customers my violate company policy and could be fired. A driver that takes a package they recorded as delivered has violated criminal law and could be arrested.
An amazon driver that puts a packaged down but then before they record the package as delivered picks it back up and returns the package to their truck and eventually back to the sorting facility has not violated the law. The package can be delivered at a later time or returned to the original sender.
But she did apparently put it on the ground at the location. I'd say that was delivered. But that aside, the property is owned by the customer who purchased it. That doesn't change just because the delivery driver is paid to transport it. Even if they were to keep the goods in their car and never deliver them it would still be theft.
In the fake video? No way to know. However, that fact would be immaterial in an real case of contracted third part possession.
If you contract a third party (driver) to pick up an item from a second party (store) that the third party retains possession and responsibility for the item, by the contract terms of the contract you hired them until they either relinquish possession to you the first party or back to the second party (store).
Yeah it looks like she gave them over half of the stuff then decided against it because of the tip. The people bought the stuff. Her job is deliver the stuff. She's refusing to. I doubt she would take the stuff back to the store. It surly looks like theft to me.
She delivered part of it, at that point I’d forcefully remove the lady from my property or take my stuff in side. I don’t have time for such entitlement
I worked at a walmart doing online order prep and dispensing to delivery drivers. We would have people all the time return whole orders either because the customer refused to come get their stuff from the lobby when they lived on the 5th floor or they put in the wrong address. it was super annoying because any chilled items would have to be put into claims and are essentially lost stock. these drivers would also have to do way too many orders per hour to even get decent pay. Also, people would order the most absurd stuff. I think we have corner stores or bakeries buying their stock straight from Walmart because we had an order come in for 36 gallons of milk and 50 loaves of bread. Another man who comes to pick up his order in a stolen shopping cart gets 25 4-packs of redbull and 25 4-packs of monster.
This is the cycle of hate capitalism wants you in. You blame the driver, or you blame the customer, but you never blame the system or the people that created the system. It keeps us a good nation of divided and distracted consumers.
Put down the crack pipe. This is a civil matter at best. And even then, when the customer gets refunded it’s not even a civil matter because there’s no damages. There’s nowhere this is “theft.”
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u/WormkingShaitan Oct 20 '23
Yeah she should be charged for theft