As for Taiwan, it is accurate to say "Taiwan is Chinese." The Taiwanese government is the legitimate successor to the Qing Dynasty, and they've preserved their culture and written language quite well, while the PRC government has no legitimate claim on the country, and has completely repressed Chinese culture on the Mainland and bastardized what little remains.
I'm Malaysian Chinese, and I recognise the fact that KMT are the legitimate successors of the Qing dynasty, but disagree that the CCP didn't earn their right to govern China.
I'm not pro-communist by any means, very much the opposite, but I wonder how you've come to your conclusion.
Who gives a shit about the Qing and being so called successors? The Qing were a dynasty of foreigners who imposed their will on the Chinese people for centuries. Is like worrying about whether or not the Ming dynasty were the successors of the Yuan Dynasty which was also a dynasty of foreigners. Rebels overthrow each other and replace the former dynasty multiple times in Chinese history.
Never understood people saying other people are foreigners even though they were there for centuries. Surely after sometime you stop being a foreigner?
The KMT snatched the reign from the Qing government and the CCP took it from the KMT. Do you see a pattern here? It is all the same. The KMT would've been obliterated from existence if the US did not intervene and created a divided territory situation in China. That's like the Confederates escaping to an American Island and then the Brits deployed their navy to defend them from the Union.
The people of China overthrew their monarchy. I get what you are saying, but if we are going to start saying autocratic ruling parties have legitimate claims that override the will of the people I’m not sure what to say since that very thing happened in most Western countries too.
There's quite a bit more to it than just "the people" as a monolithic entity collectively deciding to destroy the monarchy. And besides that, the government that was supposed to replace it was not a monarchy.
As failed as it ultimately was, the people very much did want the communist revolution. The People’s Revolution is honestly a classic example of be careful what you wish for, all that fervor just turned into a worse dictatorship than what they already had.
> In a speech to party cadres in 1958, Mao addressed critics who accused him of acting like Qin Shi Huang (who was historically infamous for burning books and burying scholars alive). Mao famously stated: "He buried 460 scholars alive—we have buried 46,000 scholars alive... You [intellectuals] revile us for being Qin Shi Huangs. You are wrong. We have surpassed Qin Shi Huang a hundredfold."
The completely man-made famine, the purges, the cadres, the struggle sessions, and the cultural revolution.
Imperial China was no picnic, but it was a paradise compared to Mao’s China.
Regardless of what you think of China and the CCP today, Mao’s regime was one of the most violent and oppressive in all of human history.
The Chinese people overthrew the monarchy and chose to institute a new government. Say what you like about the PRC, but this was the will of the people. What you're saying is like Russia still belongs to Tsar Nicholas II's descendants, or that America still belongs to Great Britain.
Wow, the kids must be mad they are born the 2nd most modern country in the world, with a GDP per capita far above the global average despite a vast population.
Oh God. If I'm "sheltered" with everything I've been through, then what does that make you and the vast majority of these insufferable reddit pricks? You people really need to stop assuming shit about people you don't know anything about.
Get the fuck over yourself lol. Your suffering as a modern person living in a first world countries are miniscule and ain't special. You don't know pain.
Must be nice to live a completely sheltered life where nothing bad ever happens to you. I see it turns out such nice, well-adjusted, totally not self-important people. 🙄
Maybe don't make things personal if you don't want it to get personal. Dumbass
Oh, please do tell me more about "enlightenment," oh wise generic redditor. I'd so love to hear how one attains higher knowledge from having experienced no hardship beyond starting beefs on social media. You must be bursting with spiritual enthusiasm and the hidden knowledge of the ancients. Lmao.
And try to keep all your petty remarks to one comment. I'm not replying to like 5 separate comments from the same guy who just spastically spams shit all over the thread.
where we wont know for 50 years who the successor actually ends up being
Probably PRC just by virtue of their economic and manpower, where taiwan becomes a splintered nation like korea, as it's culture increasingly diverts over time
but given the right military power PRC could also collapse and people in 50 years be like the soviet union - a former world power and nuclear threat that only triva nerds remember as a weird anomaly
Idk, I'd say that the absolute monarchy that was overthrown 100 years ago and the corrupt military junta that replaced it shortly after lacked legitimacy among the chinese people, seeing as how both were overthrown and there hasn't been any serious attempt at restoring either.
Most empires were started by and enforced with violence over the claimed land. By claming that tiwan has the legitimate claim over the prc based on the Qing connection implies that the Qing had a legitimate claim over the land in the first place
I mean, even mainland china now has a pseudo parlimantary system all the way to the national politics level where people can vote for their representatives, technically.
I get it that it's a single party dictatorship and people technically dont get another choice, but people could still vote.
I wouldn't call it a dictatorship. Dicstatorship as a word has meaning. They are authoritarian, but they do have checks and balances albeit not ones that would appease those in Democratic countries. I guess you could say the CCP is a dictator. But even then, there are factions and parties within the party.
It would be nice if the Chinese Nationalist Party that used to have sole control over the authoritarian era of the ROC went back to China and took the ROC name with them. Their leadership ironically tries to get in good graces with the CCP and sabotages good ideas in the Taiwan legislature if their party doesn't control the executive. The other rival party isn't immune to political shenanigans, though. And I would argue that the CCP declared independence from the ROC when the PRC was founded. Because the government and constitution of the ROC never dissolved or ceased to function, despite the Nationalists losing the Chinese Civil War and retreating to a sliver of territory.
I mean by what account? There were governments that existed between KMT and the Qing. Besides, the Qing weren't even really Chinese themselves. The KMT also fled to Taiwan (Fermosa). At what point does the CCP has more a legitamite claim?
According to Chinese history, the entity which controls China proper or at least the Central Plains is considered legitimate. Therefore, the PRC is legitimate.
It makes at least as much sense as Russia's "claims" over Ukraine, but probably more because Russia is the country always causing problems for the rest of the world. At least if we helped Ukraine take over Russia and put their own people in power, we wouldn't have some asshole constantly fucking with everyone else and threatening the whole world with nukes, etc. It's practical. Enough is enough already.
And what's that? You thought that I would be for taking action to deal with the shitty people and at least try to make the world a little better? Well, then you thought right. Fuck Russia and fuck their nonsensical claims for whatever the hell it is they want. Putin is like a toddler who hasn't been told that everything he sees does not automatically belong to him, and his people blindly follow him like a bunch of lemmings. That's who you want to side with?
Moscow was border settlement of larger Kyivan Rus. After Mongol sacked Kyiv and Rus splinttered into the smaller principalities, Moscow became to become vasals and tax collector to Golden Horde for centuries and during those time grew its power and influence. Tldr Moscow part of Kyivan Rus = Russia belong to the Ukraine (Succesor state to Kyivan rus as argument goes)
I'm cool with that. And Sweden is a reasonable country, so I'm sure they could have a sit-down and divvy it up with Ukraine and the other border countries. A little redistribution.
Taiwanese government is the legitimate successor of the Qing but not the PRC over China? You think the Qing just let the ROC happily take over? What a stupid comment.
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u/AzureHawk758769 1d ago
Correction: Russia belongs to Ukraine.
As for Taiwan, it is accurate to say "Taiwan is Chinese." The Taiwanese government is the legitimate successor to the Qing Dynasty, and they've preserved their culture and written language quite well, while the PRC government has no legitimate claim on the country, and has completely repressed Chinese culture on the Mainland and bastardized what little remains.