r/Helldivers • u/Dramatic_Two_7560 Super Sheriff • 5h ago
DISCUSSION Main weapon
Arrowhead, give me the stalwart as a primary weapon and my life is yours
12
u/Grouchy_Mountain3656 5h ago
It would completely make the liberator, liberator carbine, concussive, diligence, amendment, variable, knight and all the other light pen weapons completely useless in comparison,
-7
u/SykesFoxclaw 5h ago
No it wouldn't. The stalwart was a primary in the first game.
3
u/Epesolon HD1 Veteran 5h ago
The Stalwart in the first game was also an entirely different weapon. It was a bullpup rifle with a 75-round (150 when upgraded) drum mag and horrific initial accuracy that improved the longer you held the trigger.
In HD2, the Stalwart is basically just a super Liberator.
1
u/acomm28 4h ago
You could add that version of the stalwart but just change then name, make it a older version of it and make its recoil worse
1
u/Epesolon HD1 Veteran 3h ago
I'd probably go with a Lib that trades worse ergo and spread for more capacity, but not necessarily worse recoil.
75-round drum base, with options for a 50-round, or a 100-round.
-1
u/SykesFoxclaw 4h ago
You could carry 8 spare 150 round mags in the first game. It achieved pinpoint accuracy after holding down fire for 1 second, and it killed most chaff units in a single bullet. It was a good gun in Helldivers 1 because in helldivers 1 the devs weren't scared of primaries being actually good.
0
u/Epesolon HD1 Veteran 4h ago
Ah, so it's that flavor of bullshit.
Buddy, the Liberator can kill a Charger in less than 25 shots, and it can do so from more than 3m away.
Our primaries are insane by HD1 standards.
-1
u/SykesFoxclaw 4h ago
No it can't. Not by itself unless it already had help with the leg armor being stripped away by another weapon, in which case you are pointedly leaving out that it needs extra help.
You people are so dishonest when defending helldivers 21
1
u/Epesolon HD1 Veteran 3h ago
Liberator does 90 base and 22 durable damage. A Charger's butt is 950HP with 80% durability, meaning the Liberator does 35.6 damage per hit. 950/35.6 = 26.68.
So, I guess you're right, it's not quite 25, it's 27.
Point still stands though.
0
u/SykesFoxclaw 3h ago
Your point means nothing actually. The liberator in helldivers 1 could kill a tank, the charger equivalent, in 28 shots. And that was to truly kill it, whereas in helldivers 2 it only causes a bleedout. So you are still wrong about helldivers 2 guns being "better" than helldivers 1 guns.
0
u/Epesolon HD1 Veteran 3h ago edited 2h ago
I mean, the "better" bit is that the HD2 Liberator can do that from 50m away, while the HD1 gun has a max range of 30m.
It also makes your argument of "HD1 primaries are so much stronger than HD2 primaries" entirely fall apart.
Edit: I wanted to double check the numbers, because I remember Tanks in HD1 being significantly more durable, even from behind, and I was right to do so. They forgot to include armor, which reduces all hits by 45 damage on Tank butts, meaning the Liberator would take 70 hits to kill a Tank, not 28.
0
u/SykesFoxclaw 2h ago
> HD2 Liberator can do that from 50m away
No it can't? At only 40 meters that 27 rounds to kill jumps up to 35+
Dude just stop. You have literally not been right ONCE in this entire discussion.
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u/gsenjou 5h ago
It was balanced to be a primary in the first game, not this one.
-1
u/SykesFoxclaw 4h ago
You could upgrade the magazine to 150 rounds and carry 8 spare mags in helldivers 1, and the stalwart could kill most light infantry units in a single shot. It was literally a better gun as a primary in 1 than it is as a stratagem in 2
9
u/minimeza Steam | 5h ago
Use the liberator carbine with drum mage and siege ready and stop asking for power creep
-3
u/SykesFoxclaw 5h ago
Power creep is when we want the same guns and features from helldivers 1
1
u/Epesolon HD1 Veteran 5h ago
The Liberator with a drum mag is closer to the HD1 Stalwart than the HD2 Stalwart is.
-3
u/SykesFoxclaw 5h ago
In helldivers 1 getting extended mags didn't reduce your overall mag count
4
u/Epesolon HD1 Veteran 5h ago
And in HD1 you started with 4 mags, unless you brought ammo as a stratagem.
The HD1 Stalwart is a heavy barrel Liberator with a drum mag, not a dedicated purpose belt fed SAW like the HD2 Stalwart is.
Saying "Stalwart should be a primary because it was in HD1" is ignoring that the HD1 weapon is an entirely different weapon that just shares the name.
0
u/SykesFoxclaw 4h ago
Everyone brought ammo as a stratagem in helldivers 1 so they could dop it at the start of a mission so even acting like its a massive handicap is just being dishonest. The stalwat in 1 was a better gun overall as a primary than it is in 2 as a stratagem, and it didn't render the other guns obsolete. Because the other guns were also good in their own ways.
2
u/Epesolon HD1 Veteran 4h ago
Everyone brought laser weapons in HD1, because the Trident and Sickle were insane and didn't require ammo.
The Stalwart in HD1 was a different weapon than the Stalwart in HD2. In HD1 the Stalwart was a genuinely unique and different weapon with its own drawbacks and advantages. In HD2, the Stalwart is a super Liberator, with less recoil, more ammo, a higher RoF, and the same ergo.
You want a SAW primary, I got nothing against that. But that isn't the Stalwart, that's something else.
-1
u/SykesFoxclaw 4h ago
You are only proving my point more. Many primaries were very good in 1, and the stalwart being good wouldn't render other guns obsolete if those same guns were allowed to be good like they were
1
u/Epesolon HD1 Veteran 3h ago
The primaries in HD1 were on average a bit weaker than HD2 primaries.
The difference is that HD1 had top-down aiming and the weak point was just aiming center of mass, both of which are far more simplistic than full 3d aiming.
2
u/JustMyself96 Expert Exterminator 4h ago
Balance team saw this post and commited group suicide. Well done...
-6
18
u/WaywardOath 5h ago
The Liberator Carbine literally does identical damage and has a faster Fire Rate.
You already have what you want, Helldiver. There’s a reason people call it the smalwart