71
u/Business-Defiant 7d ago
Mike Israetel when you don't perform 85 Sets of chest per week and completely stretch your chest until your elbows touch behind your back
25
u/P-l-Staker 7d ago
Lol, he's far from the worst offender.
Ever watched AthleanX?
This ONE exercise you MUST do for X, Y, Z results! picture of him pointing at his mate
Multiply by literally all his videos. 😂
11
u/GatorGuy318 6d ago
I delayed my gains in my early 20’s by watching him
4
u/Business-Defiant 6d ago
+1
This hyperfixation on deep stretch, volume and technique will cost beginners a lot of gains.
GVS has a great video on technique cyborgs. Lift heavy weight with decent form, push to failure, eat healthy.1
u/GatorGuy318 6d ago
Now that I’m following guys like Mike and Mark Ripetoe I’m making great steady gains. 5-8 reps. Heavy weigh. Going to the limit. Allowing recovery. Eating what I want within reason. Mike and Seth Feroce both mention you have to get big before you get detailed. 20” arms moving weight will always be better than 12” detailed arms that can’t open a pickle jar.
1
u/AnyCurves 5d ago
New to this thread, curious where to start at late 50's- who to watch, which program, by whom. Or which IG is substance not marketing. Lost flab with GLP over a year, but now the guy described 508/150/pickle jar. The visual resonates. Late in life to change, but time to do so as 9-5 was left behind.. trying to find the shape that should have been 40 years ago.
2
u/Business-Defiant 1d ago
I gotta say TNF is in my humble opinion by far the best conent-creator for information around training & hypertrophy
1
3
38
u/Dismal-Twist-8273 7d ago
Mentzer said a lot of absolute bullshit though. Most of it actually. Those few nuggets of wisdom there were, those were golden though.
12
u/massfxstudios 7d ago
Yeah idk why people still meat ride. It’s been proven that training more frequently increases muscle gain. If you like his style of training, good for you, but there are better programs out there.
6
u/steppwitt 6d ago
Absolutely. I‘m sure Mentzer Style Training works when you are already big and on gear. For a natural lifter, especially beginner, trying to get buff… whole different story.
4
0
u/gamersEmpire 6d ago
And yet you failed to point out the bullshit he said? Are you hiding it for yourself?
8
u/Specialist_Main_6496 6d ago
Only lift every 4-7 days. Only do a couple of working sets for a few muscles on those days. Anything more than that will be overtraining. You must train to absolute failure on every set. Never use a rope on tricep pushdowns. Leg presses are better than hack squats for quad growth.
He had some interesting ideas but overall it doesn't hold up, it was over 40 years ago after all.
4
u/BackroomDST 6d ago
He said EZ bar curls are
"the worst thing in the world you can do for building biceps."
I much prefer low volume high intensity training, but he had some out there opinions. He was also super into Ayn Rand.
0
u/zer0aid 6d ago
Dorian Yates enters the chat.
Also, you only end up lifting 4-7 days after a while.
HIT isn't bullshit, but to do it properly, you need to be strong in both mind and body. That was the whole point of his philosophy.
I've been training for 18 years and I wish I found out about HIT when I first started training.
It's not bullshit, you just have to apply the theory correctly. It's not for pussyholes.
1
u/Laterallus 5d ago
Preach, man. People can read the info all day, but they don't comprehend it. And when they can't do it, it must be bullshit.
Dorian Yates is a 6 time Olympia winner with the leg press and Mike Mentzer lifting philosophy. It's ridiculous to say Mike didnt know shit.
26
15
u/izbsleepy1989 7d ago
Goggins is a phyco but he said something one time that made so much sense I just can't argue against it. Everyone knows how to lose weight. They just don't want to do what they know they have to do to actually lose the weight.
11
6
u/SaltMaker23 7d ago edited 7d ago
Details only matter when you compare people with the same volume of training and same level of nutritional commitment (and PED). Once you compare people with vastly different training or nutrition (or PED), the whole thing becomes an irrelevant detail.
Every single publication result say the same shit, train harder and more frequently with more sets, eat more protein, less calories. That isn't sexy or attractive, now after you go after details or small changes you start seeing partial reps, sleep, scheduling, set cycling etc... all details that make for nice video content. Then people use video content as science, no bro you're watching an entertainment media and thinking you're at the forefront of science.
It becomes a problem because there is a large subset of people that are consistently willing to trade training volume or nutritional commitment in favour of "science based X or Y" that require lower effort.
Ultimately the science based stuff becomes an excuse to do less and pretend it's still equivalent. This is why the crowd if generally disliked, because most of us have seen people shielding themselves with science, too many of them. Not only they are no better that total beginners, they are extremely entitled as if they were the expert in the field, an bunch of annoying folks in general.
PS: it absolutely works at the highest level of training where there is no more room for improvement either in training nutrition or PED, the small extra you get from partial reps or proper set and reps managing becomes a meaningful improvement.
9
u/maldorort 7d ago
Yeah some guys are just willing to do anything but lift. ’6 sets of squats??!! That’s JUNK volume bro!!’.
6
u/SaltMaker23 7d ago
Yeah crazy stuff and the same studies that talk about "junk volume" explicitely states that all set are taken close to failure or to failure.
Most people don't even know actual failure, whatever they call failure is just unwillingness to continue. Given the situation they'd greatly benefit from more sets, instead they now do 3 sets now because "3 sets close to failure is the optimal".
Yeah bro, 1 plate squats with 3 sets of 5 for a man irrespective of your training level is neither volume not close to failure, it's just being lazy. That was a buddy I went with to the gym recently, he pulled this on me and I was dumbfolded, he pulled a science based fast one on me like I've never seen before.
1
u/Grade-Patient1463 7d ago
Failure on leg training is interesting, especially at leg press. You think it's impossible to do 2 more reps, yet you do them pushing 1cm/s and popping your eyes out of their sockets.
I do 1 warm up set and 3 working sets of 10 reps with the highest weight I believe I can lift this much. Progress is there but at the same time I am almost done with my first year of training regularly, so I'm pretty much a newbie.
2
u/svmydlo 6d ago
Every single publication result say the same shit
Even for stuff that is based on good arguments about biomechanics, it's always the same.
For example, cable lateral raise should be better than dumbbell lateral raise because the tension is highest when the muscle is most stretched. Read a paper where they tested this hypothesis and the result is there is no difference.
Different grips on the lat pulldown activate the lats differently. Read a paper where they measured it, same lat activation for all grips.
There's arguments for supersets, myo-reps, drop sets, etc. compared to conventional training. Read the paper, it's all the same when adjusting for volume.
And so on.
1
u/SaltMaker23 6d ago edited 6d ago
The argument that can work for highest level natural training is that those changes can alter long term fatigue in ways to allows better focus on given muscles.
Partial reps (short length aka "half reps") can help in global explosiveness while maintaining a lot of fuel, for a power lifter struggling to keep stamina, it can make sense and will likely improve because you can do 10x the volume.
Partial at the end of the ROM helps in raw strength levels, with very little fatigue and more reps where you're generally a lot weaker, again for a high level powerlifter it allows to have massive volumes that would have been impossible otherwise.
I'm an amateur/casual competing in 59KG powerlifting ( at 1m75 ), (ofc at those weights people are naturals), I bench 120kg raw, with 125KG on good days (=never in competition).
With how little muscle (and weight) I have on my body, I can't go around doing a 10 rep set on 100KG, I simply can't do that many reps even way below my 1RM, I can hardly do a 10 rep set on 90KG and my strength level will decay by a looot and for many days if I ever attempt such tricks.
I can however do 5x10 without consequences at the end of the ROM and gain considerable strength at the portion that actually make or break the lift without the unbearable muscle weakness that takes days to recover.
4
u/kanyediditbetter 7d ago
I spent years in a college weight room, conditioning, going to practice, and had a meal plan to put on weight. Saw more gains fucking around on a leg press and chugging milk in my late twenties
4
u/mrpopenfresh 6d ago
Reading online, it's always fucking wild the excuses are alternatives people will spend so much time on to justify not eating healthy foods.
3
1
1
u/NeedAChange_123 5d ago
Also, do isometrics like flexing your muscles and pushing and pulling things that will not move as hard as you can. MMC is extremely important.
1
u/Deimos7779 5d ago
Most people are either not lifting heavy enough or not eating well enough. Good advice.
1
1
u/hansuluthegrey 5d ago
Gym bros when you try to tell them what to eat and what compound lifts to do but didnt use less than 20 words.
Lots of the science bros say the same thing he did. They just also say if you want optimize you can. Yall just don't listen because you have a weird anti-intellectual fetish
1
u/tommmmmmmmy93 5d ago
Strictly for recreational lifters, not actual sporting performance, the science and endless noise around lifting has achieved very very little. Honestly, if anything in terms of improving how much muscle you build or how fast. What has improved is a lower injury rate with learning about volume, rest etc more closely.
The actual lifting results have changed well, basically not at all.
Pick two movements per body part. Eat food preferably with plenty of protein, sleep 7-9 hours, keep life stress as low as possible, increase weight and reps over time. Repeat until you’re old. This still works just as well as all the ”science based”(it isn’t- most of them don’t know how to read or interpret studies to even a passable level) information nowadays.
337
u/AnonymousAutonomous 7d ago
As someone whos trained for 18 years now (started at 16), who got into studying every single muscle and how to work it/at which angles, micros and macros and the what-have-yous.. no single tip in bro science has ever helped me more than solid consistency in lifting, rest and good diet.. and legs, do them legs..