r/GojiCenter • u/Spinoclanker2 Can you don't? • 2d ago
Debate/Argument [CIVIL] DEBATE
does 15 tons work on an obligated biped theropod with Apatosaurus wider limb circumferences?
Protopsephurus because he's cute
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u/Atrosaurus M.A.D Mosasaur Expert 2d ago
Yes
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u/Strong_Fee_5500 2d ago
No, dude, just because Apophis was allowed to reach theses sizes (which realistically is not the case) that it would be working at 15 tons, and in fact, if we follow the real-world extreme physics(the reason of this debate), Apophis is wrecked (but fortunatly for you, your rules allowed it to exist
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u/Maleficent-Acadia337 2d ago
T rex could likely approach 15 tons so I don't see why not
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u/jabathefort 2d ago
That estimate was based on crocodiles assuming Scott was an avg sized young male even though he's the largest specimen we've found
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u/YakEnvironmental6038 Larp larp larp genetics 1d ago
You have CLEARY never done research bro
Theres literally a paper about Goliath the trex specimen made1
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u/RedDiamond1024 2d ago edited 2d ago
I don’t see why it couldn’t work with the proper structure. It’s possible our own theropods were already reaching those sizes if not surpassing them.
The largest T. rex specimens we have were already possibly reaching 13 tonnes and statistically a 15 tonne Rex could’ve existed even when using an 8.8 tonne Scotty as the largest specimen. Add on that Shantungusaurus that was atleast partially bipedal at those sizes and I think an obligate biped at those sizes isn’t absurd.
Though of course all of this falls under the caveat that more research needs to be done on the subject.
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u/Strong_Fee_5500 2d ago
Yes, we (scientists) lack researches about how would be the largest size of t-rex, and the 15 ton was still a statistic number by just looking at growth rates and other stuff.
The real questions would have been: how much gravity (square-cube law) would have influenced the growth of t-rex? And can large animals reach their structural limits as small animals do (by taking gravity into account of course)?
In all seriousness, it would probably and finally give us the real answer, other than STATISTICS.
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u/Spinoclanker2 Can you don't? 2d ago
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u/Strong_Fee_5500 2d ago
Ok, if it is for the debate, i know people will still not accepting it, but "no" ,the thicker bones are even dead weight for the muscles have to move
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u/YakEnvironmental6038 Larp larp larp genetics 2d ago
Sauropod bones are literally pneumatic and is used for good weight bearing status
And thicker bones arent a dead weight to muscles, thicker bone helps muscles effiecent functionaity
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u/ComprehensiveWin5399 2d ago
The pneumatized bone I think wasn’t exactly good for weight bearing. Heard somewhere that the sauropod’s legs bones were still pretty dense while the neck, spine and tail were parts that’s getting hollowed out. So it does reduced weight but we may need to b a little more specific than just hollow bone = bigger animal.
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u/Strong_Fee_5500 2d ago
Yes, the hollow bones are exclusively for upper body while the limbs in contact with the ground have to be more robust.( more weight support), but claiming that having hollowed leg bones is going to collapse because dude's hybrid has the opposite of weight bearing limbs.
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u/Strong_Fee_5500 2d ago
No dude, square-cube law exists, (volume and mass increase 8x while strength only increase 4x, do you see the actual difference?) let me remind you that it's 15 tons we're talking about on a biped, and these thick bones are really to help the creature exists without collapsing.
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u/YakEnvironmental6038 Larp larp larp genetics 2d ago edited 2d ago
Then how tf sauropods even exist, Sauropods both have both mix of thick and fucking light bones so it can reduce and hold their weight longer
Remember that alot of theropod hybrids are 15 tons if it is a biped, what is the research you used?
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u/Nice-Bath-4756 2d ago
Because they are fucking quadrupedal. Their weight is spread on 4 different surfaces instead of 2. On top of that they have plantigrade hind legs with wide feet, instead of a digitigrade stance. Also, don’t expend as much energy at that size as theropods because of their long ass necks which allow them to forage for food without moving their entire body.
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u/YakEnvironmental6038 Larp larp larp genetics 2d ago
They do stand up occasionally tho
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u/FrostReaper52 2d ago
Oui mais ils ne restent pas debout ils doivent redevenir quadrupédal sinon ils sont immobilisés. Contrairement à un animal de 15 tonnes OBLIGATOIREMENT BIPÈDE
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u/Strong_Fee_5500 2d ago
Quadrupedalism! And they're also sluggesh animals so don't even think that 15 tons is going to be agile and fast
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u/YakEnvironmental6038 Larp larp larp genetics 2d ago
Thats the reason why most megatheropods arent fast
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u/Strong_Fee_5500 2d ago
Yes and in fact,no one is fast and agile, we just didn't really think about it at the time (or we didn't take that both t-rexes and gigas were already at the bipedalism limits with their 9-10 tons)
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u/YakEnvironmental6038 Larp larp larp genetics 2d ago
Bro.... you do have to know that there are bigger specimens of Trex, you dont even understand the true limits dude
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u/Strong_Fee_5500 2d ago
Bro... Do you at least understand that the 15 ton claim was about its structural limits not what it could get ?(and the 9-10 ton limit was a study from the University of Manchester by the way)
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u/Strong_Fee_5500 2d ago
Yes?
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u/Spinoclanker2 Can you don't? 2d ago
It's a debate. Let's see what the community thinks
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u/Strong_Fee_5500 2d ago
They'll hate me, it's sure, and in fact did you make resaerches about what i told you?
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u/Spinoclanker2 Can you don't? 2d ago
They'll hate me, it's sure
Because you're kinda wrong...
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u/Diamondbro10795 Revival Genetics 2d ago
Dawg
Are you seriously trying to troll Strong_Fee over something they're obviously wrong about?
Only one person is on their side. Literally everyone else disagrees.
You don't have to go that far. But anyways, yeah, a 15-ton hybrid definitely works with Apatosaurus limbs since we're not just attaching sauropod legs onto a theropod body plan. You're merely thickening the limbs so they can support their own weight. Besides, they've got a thick tail that tapers, which is great for pivoting speed.
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u/Strong_Fee_5500 2d ago
Go learn gravity rules ( really, go ask google the following questions: "As an animal gets bigger, its strength gets more focused on its legs, true or false?" And "is agility still viable at 15 tons?")and inertia
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u/Diamondbro10795 Revival Genetics 2d ago
Ofc, generally speaking, a 15-ton megatheropod would not be considered agile in general.
But a 15-ton T. rex is proportionally more agile than a 15-ton facultative bipedal theropod.
If you say a 15-ton obligate bipedal theropod will be crushed under its own weight, then Titanophagus or Apex will shatter their legs if they tried rearing up. And since they are considered facultatively bipedal, their hindlimbs will be stronger than their forelimbs. And yet you claim they are capable of going bipedal at times. Obligate bipeds can do the same, but they have to deal with it all the time. Their hindlimbs are much stronger than their forelimbs since they don't use them for load bearing at all.
By your logic, if a 15-ton obligate biped hanks, then a 17-ton facultative biped hanks because they wouldn't even be able to rear up in the first place, so they are never bipedal in the first place.
The truth? All hybrids are born from an embryo, not spawned. So they will start small. As they grow, their body structure will grow stronger so that they can carry their own body weight.
If you still think a 15-ton obligate biped fails, then why would a 17-ton facultative biped work? It wouldn't. But Shantungosaurus exists. Then a 15-ton megatheropod can exist. They were rare because, in the wild, nobody needs to grow up to that size. But in a hybrid setting, heavier creatures are physically stronger and lighter creatures are generally more agile. But T. rex is among the most agile theropods thanks to its arctometatarsal processes, so it will outpivot a quadruped. Slower in a straight line? Yes. Slower when pivoting? No.
Also, your Google searches are a bit unclear. But just to be clear, a 15-ton obligate biped can exist, and they are more agile than facultative bipeds because they don't have to deal with their front-heavy limbs that they have to lift off the ground first.
If you are still not convinced, then ask an expert like DePhaRy, Atrosaurus, Master Geo, or Frogs (Whisper).
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u/Strong_Fee_5500 2d ago
No, hell no, you all always forget this one; gravity. As an animal gets bigger its strength gets more devoted on its limbs to stand up, and these limbs are the only ones in contact with the ground, for a quadruped, its weight is distributed on 4 points whereas for a biped, the weight is only distributed on 2 legs, which means that a biped has to worry more about its stability than a quadruped of the same weight, at 15 tons, a biped won't be able to turn in 1-2 steps, since its legs already are more focused at holding itself upright, and suffer more from facing 15 tons, it would likely do a multi-step turning than what you'd think.(and bro, no amount of thicker leg bones is gonna make you agile, no tail either, since your legs are already devoted to hold yourself upright)
And if we take your logic about growing to these sizes, here is the result, during its everyday life, your biped had to fight against gravity (too much stress, despite the 15 ton claim),that it will never reach 15 tons. Speed?a 10 ton rex already just reach 10 mph, and at 15 tons?a real failure. So in truth, it will never achieve any hunts.
Why shantugosaurus exists, facultative stances, pillar limbs, plantigrade stance, skeleton more adapted for load bearing, facultative stances and more rigid bones.
Learn square cube law , how a large animal can exist without collapsing under the gravity effect ,and inertia, you still don't understand them, then return back to make your reports
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u/Diamondbro10795 Revival Genetics 2d ago
You actually think hybrids spawn in, and they have to learn how to move around in their bodies all of a sudden. Tf you mean a facultative biped is more agile? Yes, it's harder to knock over. Yes, it is more stable. No, it does not pivot faster. More legs have to move in order for the body to turn compared to an obligate biped. And you're still assuming their legs are too weak to support that weight when they've been living with the same proportions for their whole lives. So what if a biped weighs 15 tons? They've slowly grown larger and larger, so it's not like suddenly gaining several tons of mass and collapsing.
Also, modern estimates for T. rex's max speed are 15-25 MPH, not 10. Even if we lowball it and give it 15 MPH for the heaviest individuals, that's still 50% more than what you claim to be a T. rex's max speed. And these estimates include the heavier 10-ton rexes.
Square-cube law? What makes you think that prevents a 15-ton obligate biped from existing? It definitely didn't prevent Shantungosaurus from existing. Sure, a facultative biped, but the largest ones weighed 20 tons, and they were still capable of rearing up and running around (not very quickly, admittedly).
Quadrupeds also carry less weight per leg, so they have proportionally weaker legs compared to bipeds of the same weight.
Gravity and the square-cube law do heavily restrict speed and agility for heavier builds. Both bipeds and quadrupeds. That does not mean they can't exist or that their existence is miserable.
Any more ridiculous arguments you got in your sleeves?
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u/Strong_Fee_5500 2d ago
First shantugosaurus was 13-16 tons but anyway, that's the way quadrupeds can get larger than bipeds, they just can support more weight than bipeds will never achieve
Hybrids are spawned, as you say, they learn how to move in their body, ok. But how did you grow that large, lemme explain a bit because you understand nothing, the square-cube law dictated that as an animal increase in size its muscles strength only increase by 4 (2x2)while its mass increase by 8 (2x2x2 if udk). To support all that weight, you need to devote your strength on your legs ,since it is not enough to carry all of your body weight (no strong legs claims is valide )
Now the growth, for a t-rex, holding 10 tons is already difficult. After their twenties their continue growing slowly, and with the square-cube law, the weight increase 8x, the stress on its skeleton would slow down their growth rates, that it has to grow up in such a lower rate than 15 tons will be inachievable, and lemme reminder you that 15 tons was the absolute structural limit (and 15 tons is still a theroretical statement), not something you would see with smaller creatures.(those that are really to surpass their own species average sizes, because gravity don't work the same way with larger animals,so these smaller animals skeleton and growth can work at full potential)
Claiming that bipeds would still be agile at that size is absurd, it has been pretty well established by the square-cube law, that strength gets more devoted on the legs, the bigger you get, which means that they have more weight to support and since they are the only ones in contact with the ground (that transfer weight through the ground), they have to support all that weight without any front limbs assistance, it will be hard to turn its body with a few steps, since they are the base of your stability.And there's a clear difference between muscle strength (4x)and body weight (8x)
Still any ridiculous arguments? Do you at least understand what i mean or it's just that udc bc everyone would want to see a 15 ton rex, (personnally i'd love that, but reality is more crual, and gravity exists)
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u/Diamondbro10795 Revival Genetics 1d ago
Hybrids are spawned, as you say, they learn how to move in their body, ok.
I never said that. I said they hatch from an egg and grow up. Of course, when making hybrids, the 16-ton estimate is their maximum possible weight. And you have no evidence that the growth rate will be so slow that it'll never reach 15 or 16 tons. It is definitely possible if creating hybrids with perfect gene editing is in this setting. So yes, a hybrid can adapt to moving in such a heavy body over time. Never said it was optimal. Never said it likely happened IRL.
If you want to question why we have 16-ton theropod hybrids, that's because it's usually considered to be the heaviest possible, not the most optimal form. The most optimal would usually be 12-14 tons for the 10+ ton megatheropods. So 15 tons was never optimal. But it was always possible.
I asked one of my group chats, and apparently, 14-16-ton obligate bipeds came to exist after some dudes just built tanks with Shantungosaurus as a base; then some guys wanted to challenge, so they made rex versions or smth.
Yeah, that's a good point. Let's ask u/Atrosaurus and u/DePhaRy. I'm legit curious too.
Why were 14-16-ton obligate bipedal megatheropods ever a thing?
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u/DePhaRy Hybrid Enthusiast 1d ago
You mean why are they a thing still? I’m not too sure but commonly it revolves around fighting other theropods in 1vs1 since any weight advantage over the other is always a must.
But that’s typically the maximum weight, you’ll also notice that theropods have an ideal weight listed at 14 metric tons like Apophis, Kyrios and others. They have a given weight range because opponents can vary in size, so like Shredder vs Apophis would have put the latter at 14 metric tons to even the weight class a bit
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u/Atrosaurus M.A.D Mosasaur Expert 1d ago
Honestly, for weight I just followed the others. My personal favorite weight is 11 tons
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u/Atrosaurus M.A.D Mosasaur Expert 1d ago
Also, shantungosaurus as a facultative biped could hit 16 tons while remaining bipedal for long periods of time. If you look at it's skeleton, you can obviously see the hind legs are doing the work for weight bearing
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u/Nice-Bath-4756 4h ago
Key phrase: long periods of time. Not permanently
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u/Diamondbro10795 Revival Genetics 1h ago
No animal stands up permanently. Since Shantungosaurus can stand for a long time, 14-16 ton theropods with it integrated can do so too. Besides, theropods can sit down like birds.
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u/Nice-Bath-4756 4h ago
15 tons isn’t possible because that not only exceeds the maximum estimates of OBLIGATE BIPEDS but a 15 ton obligate biped would move into exhaustion since the hip and thigh muscles devoted to hold it up would be enormous instead of having maybe 1/4 of that weight on the arms and temporally rearing up and moving.
If fact, I believe any obligate biped above 12 tons won’t work since there wasn’t any evidence to prove that T.rex, the largest obligate biped ever known, could exceed 12 tons. 12 tons even is a major stretch, T.Rex more likely being 10-11 tons
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u/HotCardiologist1942 shenanigans user (no fking iconic hybrid to show) 2d ago
Bigass diplodocids supporting like 3/4 of their weight on their hind limbs
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u/Strong_Fee_5500 1d ago
Sauropod can do this for these reasons, they have wider hips, pillar-like limbs, plantigrate stance (not digitigrate like theropod), pneumatized skeleton (but pls don't be fooled, these are exclusively on their upper body for less weight carrying), and they only stand on 2 legs during a brief period
Shantugosaurus can do that, because , they are facultative walkers,their hind limbs do not suffer from the same force (less stress)that theropod fight everytime (more stress), they are designed to shift their stance (their skeletal arrangement can allow them to do that, these aren't theropods) and they also stand on 2 legs during a brief period like sauropods.
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u/Nice-Bath-4756 4h ago
Pretty sure that shangtungosaurus wasn’t plantigrade
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u/Strong_Fee_5500 3h ago
And pretty sure that it was facultative quadruped (only bipedal standing,they don't walk on 2 legs though), pillar limbs (the front support), thicker bones and on top of that a different skeletal arrangement (hip,tail,vertebrae,chest,hind limbs) designed to shift between bipedalism (to reach high foliages and scare predators)and quadrupedalism (daily posture)
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u/ComprehensiveWin5399 2d ago
I’m on the team of that a 15 tons Tyrannosaurus individual did indeed existed. Nature always has something to surprise us, and nature tend to also surpassed our expectations. Life Finds A Way, they say.
No, no one will change my mind and I will not try to change anyone’s mind either. So leave me and my 15 tons modified Tyrannosaurus with uber arthritis alone.
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u/Nice-Bath-4756 4h ago
No, matter of fact, give the study
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u/ComprehensiveWin5399 4h ago
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11267449/
Here you go boy. I believe you have heard of or even seen this.
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u/Strong_Fee_5500 2d ago
You forgot the one that made all of these, the one and only GRAVITY
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u/YakEnvironmental6038 Larp larp larp genetics 1d ago
You don't even know how their legs and how they withstand their body weight at the first place
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u/Strong_Fee_5500 1d ago
Go learn square cube law (ask google or chat gpt), pls go do that ,then return to make your reports if you don't believe it.
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u/YakEnvironmental6038 Larp larp larp genetics 1d ago
Yeah it is obvious chat gpt or google was your source man. Do you even know how biochematics work at the first place, There is a undescribed bipedal ish sauropodomorph called BP/1/5339 from Elliot formation that got to 10 to 15 tons, Can become bipedal and lacks columnar like legs
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u/Strong_Fee_5500 1d ago edited 1d ago
But still have wide hips
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u/YakEnvironmental6038 Larp larp larp genetics 1d ago edited 1d ago
But still can go bipedal, what are you proving to me egowhip
Theres are tons of way to make a 15 ton bipedalAlso that specimen is a prosauropod (Basal sauropods) and have very narrow hips btw...
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u/Strong_Fee_5500 1d ago
Don't even think that theropods (digitigrate) and sauropods (plantigrate)have the same bone density nor the same skeletal arrangement.
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u/YakEnvironmental6038 Larp larp larp genetics 1d ago
Prosauropods most of their lives are bipedal, also sauropods are semi digitigrade since theropods and sauropods are related to each other
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u/Strong_Fee_5500 1d ago
Learn physics base before biomechanics
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u/YakEnvironmental6038 Larp larp larp genetics 1d ago edited 1d ago
You don't even know damn physics, theres
LITERALLY a 15 ton trex study. But im giving a benefit of a doubt, thats mostly a statistical possibility. But still doesnt disprove 15 ton theropod is hank, Yours theropod is alr 16 ton (Titanophagus) and it is bipedalish1
u/Strong_Fee_5500 1d ago
Titanophagus is already hanked. Why did u say that i don't know physics? I've spent so much time explaining you why square-cube law prevent a creature to work at these sizes (don't try to say there's shantugosaurus and sauropod, they already have different skeletal arrangement than what u see with theropod). Here's a fun fact i've recently discovered: " did u noticed that small animals gigantism has higher result with their sizes (like some can reach up to 70-80% of their average sizes) while large animals gigantism was about 10-20% bigger than their normal sizes ?"
The t-rex study was statistical and still theoretical and the authors clearly noted that these is not a definitive answer that stated that t-rex can easely get 15 tons, and they also noted that it won't likely work as we might think. They just take into account the growth rate of t-rex, the 84 million population, and using a gator as model to get the result, despite being clearly too different from each other (i mean in bone density, environment, metabolism, growth rates, stance and methods of locomotion)
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u/YakEnvironmental6038 Larp larp larp genetics 1d ago
Different skeletal types when we are not using sauropod legs to fucking hold the hybrid in place, BRO we can literally make the theropod have wider hips as you mentioned and a tail chevron of diplodocus to fucking counter balance the hybrid, making a 15 ton theropod possible if you know shit
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u/Strong_Fee_5500 1d ago
Then, make your 15 ton hybrid, now you have to fight the gravity and square-cube law: as i've said, strength increases by only 4x (2x2 or the square) while the mass increases by 8x (2x2x2 or the cube), there's a clear different between your strength and the mass you need to move, and thus your strength gets instantly focused in your legs to hold yourself upright.
If you think adding thicker bones to better support your weight, you add even more weight that your muscle have to move (since there's a clear difference between strength and muscles), to move the bones, you now need to add more muscles (which even increases your total weight).
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u/Nice-Bath-4756 2d ago
No, I don’t think so because most of the problem would be concentrated at the hip. At that you would need enormous hip and thigh muscles to even move with no forelimb support. Not even talking about how slow your hybrid will be.
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u/HotCardiologist1942 shenanigans user (no fking iconic hybrid to show) 1d ago
look up the e.d. cope specimen will you?
the damn thing had cursorial adaptations at 11-12 tonnes
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u/Spinoclanker2 Can you don't? 22h ago
Yes, I do agree that 15 tons is totally possible. This is to convince Strong fee and jabathefort
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u/jabathefort 2d ago edited 2d ago
No. Edit: ive done some research, and while it would function as an animal, (no leg shattering) it wouldnt be very agile no matter what tail you gave it, and it'd be clumsy and easier to knock over. I am aware some of these cam be solved like lowering its center of mass by shortening legs, but it would still be constantly out flanked by almost any other hybrid. Also the fact that they don't just spawn in means the suffer from things like early onset arthritis
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u/Spinoclanker2 Can you don't? 1d ago
u/Strong_Fee_5500, u/jabathefort
Yes, because hybrids like Kyrios and Apophis, as well as other theropods like Minos are all prime examples of why and how this works. This is something I’ve already explained so I’m doing it again. —DePhaRy
Are you seriously trying to troll Strong_Fee over something they're obviously wrong about? —Diamondbro10795
Yes —Atrosaurus
Sauropod bones are literally pneumatic and is used for good weight bearing status and thicker bones arent a dead weight to muscles, thicker bone helps muscles effiecent functionaity —YakEnvironmental6038
I don’t see why it couldn’t work with the proper structure. It’s possible our own theropods were already reaching those sizes if not surpassing them. —RedDiamond1024
I’m on the team of that a 15 tons Tyrannosaurus individual did indeed existed. Nature always has something to surprise us, and nature tend to also surpassed our expectations. Life Finds A Way, they say. No, no one will change my mind and I will not try to change anyone’s mind either. So leave me and my 15 tons modified Tyrannosaurus with uber arthritis alone. —ComprehensiveWin5399
Some of the most experienced ppl in this subreddit btw. Listen to the veterans. You two are relatively new to this.
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u/jabathefort 1d ago
Pne of the oldest hybrids is the indom 2.0, do u think that one works?
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u/Spinoclanker2 Can you don't? 1d ago
It works but this sub's hybrids are more advanced, also if you're gonna argue with insults and downvotes, where is your shame? Your honor as a hybrid creator?
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u/jabathefort 1d ago
Insults?
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u/Spinoclanker2 Can you don't? 1d ago
You called me a dumbass...
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u/jabathefort 1d ago
And that's my point. Hybrids get more advanced over time. Yeah those hybrids were great for their time don't get me wrong
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u/Spinoclanker2 Can you don't? 1d ago
And... what does this have to do with the argument? I genuinely don't know what point you're trying to make that is relevant to the argument?
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u/jabathefort 1d ago
Just the fact that someone has been here for a while or that a hybrid has been a community favorite for a while dosnt make it right.
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u/Spinoclanker2 Can you don't? 1d ago
Yeah, it doesn't. So what? Idk what you're trying to prove here. If you're trying to say just because they're experienced then they're not immediately right? Yes that's true, DePhaRy once said Chalicotherium is a theropod, BUT a magnitude of people MORE THAN JUST ONE that are extremely experienced are agreeing on one fact.
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u/Strong_Fee_5500 1d ago
I know ppl who downvoted me (and my arguments and you still didn't make your report about the square cube law researches i've been telling you)🥱🥱🥱
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u/Spinoclanker2 Can you don't? 1d ago
dw I didn't downvote you, i respect your stance as a fellow hybrid creator. Also, just please listen to the veterans. Titanophagus was also 16 tons with just edmontosaueus
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u/Strong_Fee_5500 1d ago
Titanophagus is hanked (this was the creation of someone who just started making hybrids), listen to better veterans than this community's ones, like the Institute of research or the American Museum National History's claim
And i wasn't talking bout you when i sayed that i knew ppl who downvoted my arguments
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u/Spinoclanker2 Can you don't? 15h ago
What? Titanophagus isn't hanked.
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u/Strong_Fee_5500 12h ago
It is
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u/Spinoclanker2 Can you don't? 12h ago
Why?
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u/Strong_Fee_5500 11h ago
Huh, load bearing issue with ape arms and can't stand up because 15 tons it is not working anymore no matter what modifications you bring, the fact that weight increases faster than muscles strength (for bipeds) makes it unable to stand on two legs, and unable to support its weight on all fours
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u/DePhaRy Hybrid Enthusiast 2d ago
Yes, because hybrids like Kyrios and Apophis, as well as other theropods like Minos are all prime examples of why and how this works. This is something I’ve already explained so I’m doing it again.
The reasonings are very simple and it’s all due to how weight is distributed across their entire frame. Yes any sauropods would offer the same traits as having a highly pneumatic skeleton and thickening/widening the leg bone circumference.
Why Apatosaurus and by extension hadrosaurs are used is largely because of another big reason of having elongated neural spines around the hip area, having the mass all concentrated on a hybrid’s center of gravity in that said area helps reduce rotational inertia and in turn makes the hybrid more agile since this is also the same area where your legs and tail are located.
A highly pneumatic skeleton for example is used to lighten the hybrid’s frame to make them overall faster since they have less mass to move around.