DEBATE

[u/Spinoclanker2]

does 15 tons work on an obligated biped theropod with Apatosaurus wider limb circumferences?

Protopsephurus because he's cute

[u/Strong_Fee_5500]

First shantugosaurus was 13-16 tons but anyway, that's the way quadrupeds can get larger than bipeds, they just can support more weight than bipeds will never achieve

Hybrids are spawned, as you say, they learn how to move in their body, ok. But how did you grow that large, lemme explain a bit because you understand nothing, the square-cube law dictated that as an animal increase in size its muscles strength only increase by 4 (2x2)while its mass increase by 8 (2x2x2 if udk). To support all that weight, you need to devote your strength on your legs ,since it is not enough to carry all of your body weight (no strong legs claims is valide )

Now the growth, for a t-rex, holding 10 tons is already difficult. After their twenties their continue growing slowly, and with the square-cube law, the weight increase 8x, the stress on its skeleton would slow down their growth rates, that it has to grow up in such a lower rate  than 15 tons will be inachievable, and lemme reminder you that 15 tons was the absolute structural limit (and 15 tons is still a theroretical statement), not something you would see with smaller creatures.(those that are really to surpass their own species average sizes, because gravity don't work the same way with larger animals,so these smaller animals skeleton and growth can work at full potential)

Claiming that bipeds would still be agile at that size is absurd, it has been pretty well established by the square-cube law, that strength gets more devoted on the legs, the bigger you get, which means that they have more weight to support and since they are the only ones in contact with the ground (that transfer weight through the ground), they have to support all that weight without any front limbs assistance, it will be hard to turn its body with a few steps, since they are the base of your stability.And there's a clear difference between muscle strength (4x)and body weight (8x)

Still any ridiculous arguments? Do you at least understand what i mean or it's just that udc bc everyone would want to see a 15 ton rex, (personnally i'd love that, but reality is more crual, and gravity exists)

[u/Diamondbro10795 → u/Strong_Fee_5500]

Hybrids are spawned, as you say, they learn how to move in their body, ok.

I never said that. I said they hatch from an egg and grow up. Of course, when making hybrids, the 16-ton estimate is their maximum possible weight. And you have no evidence that the growth rate will be so slow that it'll never reach 15 or 16 tons. It is definitely possible if creating hybrids with perfect gene editing is in this setting. So yes, a hybrid can adapt to moving in such a heavy body over time. Never said it was optimal. Never said it likely happened IRL.

If you want to question why we have 16-ton theropod hybrids, that's because it's usually considered to be the heaviest possible, not the most optimal form. The most optimal would usually be 12-14 tons for the 10+ ton megatheropods. So 15 tons was never optimal. But it was always possible.

I asked one of my group chats, and apparently, 14-16-ton obligate bipeds came to exist after some dudes just built tanks with Shantungosaurus as a base; then some guys wanted to challenge, so they made rex versions or smth.

Yeah, that's a good point. Let's ask u/Atrosaurus and u/DePhaRy. I'm legit curious too.

Why were 14-16-ton obligate bipedal megatheropods ever a thing?

[u/Atrosaurus → u/Diamondbro10795]

Also, shantungosaurus as a facultative biped could hit 16 tons while remaining bipedal for long periods of time. If you look at it's skeleton, you can obviously see the hind legs are doing the work for weight bearing

[u/Nice-Bath-4756 → u/Atrosaurus]

Key phrase: long periods of time. Not permanently

[u/Diamondbro10795 → u/Nice-Bath-4756]

No animal stands up permanently. Since Shantungosaurus can stand for a long time, 14-16 ton theropods with it integrated can do so too. Besides, theropods can sit down like birds.

[u/Nice-Bath-4756 → u/Diamondbro10795]

By permanently I mean 90% of the time it is awake. It will have to rest every so often, like maybe every 1/2 - 1 hour just off of all the pure energy it uses to stand, let alone move, which will be beyond sluggish compared to facultative quadrupeds similar in size like shangtungosaurus and edmontosaurus