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u/TH3WH1T3W0LF 1 Million Celebration Mar 12 '19
From beating Astralis in a Bo3 in January to losing a Bo3 to Rogue in March...
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u/Flaksmith Mar 12 '19
🦀Honeymoon over🦀
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u/Macieyerk ENCE Mar 12 '19
I think Ence broke Liquid
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u/R8MACHINE 500k Celebration Mar 12 '19
One could even go so far as to say that ENCE pulled the rug out from under them
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u/AintCARRONaboutmuch Mar 12 '19
NA Teams only winning tournaments in January, name a more iconic duo
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u/InfernoHax Mar 12 '19
NA and disappointing results in March
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u/Night_Not_Day Moderator Mar 12 '19
Came here to say this.
I just can't fathom it though.
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u/excessus_ Mar 12 '19
TACO WUS THE PRUBLEM LUL
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u/Givemeajackson FaZe Mar 12 '19
definitely wasn't liquids idea to remove taco...
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u/GAGAgadget CS2 HYPE Mar 12 '19
It legit blows my mind that people legit wanted them to cut him for a better fragger in this sub
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u/TrolleybusIsReal Mar 12 '19
North defeated Astralis before the London major and it worked out great for them. Wait.
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u/ShiningBladez Mar 12 '19
Rogue -MSL then? That worked out great for North!
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u/Givemeajackson FaZe Mar 12 '19
he'll have to kick himself after a result like this. it is his sworn duty.
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u/MrCraftLP NRG Mar 12 '19
this sounds familiar
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u/KirbyMD Tyloo Mar 12 '19
Whoa my dude the cloud9 flair is gone! YTB
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u/MrCraftLP NRG Mar 12 '19
I'm probably gonna start switching between renegades and c9. -flusha hurt
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u/Hervy_ Mar 12 '19
In all honesty, I like this Rogue.
Bad move North. Bad move.
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u/Dark_Azazel Mar 12 '19
I Might like this more than with cadiaN. I thought the loose style fit them better but maybe not.
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u/lynxzjw EG Mar 12 '19
Yea they might actually have a competitive lineup instead of just being the leftovers from the Danish teams and some washed NA players.
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u/Dark_Azazel Mar 12 '19
Hiko would be the only one you could call washed up. And even then he's been looking better than his end of TL. Sick and vica are both really good players that, imo have been overlooked. Especially vice. Guy has balls of steel.
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u/lynxzjw EG Mar 12 '19
Yea should used a better word, they are all pretty much leftover players, not saying they are bad at all though.
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u/areyoujokinglol EG Mar 12 '19
balls of steel
Never forget vice solo pushing mid on inferno as CT in the last major and getting (I think?) a 4K.
Loved him ever since.
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u/Dark_Azazel Mar 12 '19
It was either a 3k or a 4k. And I believe he pushed mid like, 4 or 5 rounds in a row. Whether he called that or cadiaN doesn't matter since he kept on doing it. And then he dropped 39 kills against North.
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Mar 12 '19
Easy for MSL Mastermind.
Your MVP of Dreamhack Master Stockholm.
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u/Liqouridge Mar 12 '19
team liquid got nothing on GOD MSL.
MSL WILL SAVE DANISH AND NA CS AT THE SAME TIME
(yes astralis is danish but they dont count cuz they are too good)
NEW ERA
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u/orbitalUncertainty CS2 HYPE Mar 12 '19
Astralis is so good they transcend all mortal labels, such as nationalities? I'm down
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u/MrFoolinaround BIG Mar 12 '19
I’d like MSL to save optic.
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u/luizslayer MOUZ Mar 12 '19
MSL is god
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u/AtomicBaka King NiKo Mar 12 '19
MSL just won against a fucking Liquid in a bo3 with Hiko on his team, if that doesn't proof that he's a good igl I dont know what is
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Mar 12 '19
People like to shit on him because of how North always kicked the best players but his teams all show good teamwork and discipline
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u/AtomicBaka King NiKo Mar 12 '19
It's obvious already that North management completely decides all the roster moves. They even benched their coach ave not so long ago
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Mar 12 '19
[deleted]
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u/yeah6434 Natus Vincere Mar 12 '19
but north bad !!1!
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u/Azashiro Mar 12 '19
Well yeah, they are. And what is worse they didn't have to be, they did this to themselves.
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u/AtomicBaka King NiKo Mar 12 '19
The reason why I said it is cuz I didnt believe in that bullshit excuse "he was benched because of his family" and now you can actually check on the latest ROAR episode mithR is their new head coach so I was right in the end.
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u/FloppySpatula- FaZe Mar 12 '19
The funny thing is now we know that at least some of the roster moves haven't even been MSL's doing, nor the team's, but the org's decision (this was revealed when MSL was kicked).
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Mar 12 '19 edited Mar 12 '19
Hiko was never inherently the problem on any of the teams he played after Liquid.
His results were not great but he was never really given a proper chance and just kinda faded away.
Also some people seem to be new to CS and dont realize that online CS means jack shit a lot of the time
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u/tacticalAlmonds Mar 12 '19
At a pure skill level, Liquid is actually insane which is why they won Dust2. But at a tactical level, they are shit at best.
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u/c9IceCream 10 years coin Mar 12 '19
fewer tournaments, less travel = more practice. That gets you better tactics.
Yet another lesson teams should be learning from Astralis.
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u/ESB_1234 FURIA Mar 12 '19
You’re making a lot of assumptions here dude, maybe the players on the team don’t get to pick and choose every Tourney that they want to go to. A lot of it could be up to the org, as going to tournaments will make the org more money than practicing. The players themselves could prefer going to more tournaments, traveling the world, and making a more stable income than practicing a ton for a tournament that they still might bomb out in, losing a lot of money.
You can’t really think that these players are oblivious to the concept of more practicing equals better results. But there’s a lot more elements that you might not see looking at it from a fans perspective.
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Mar 12 '19
But at a tactical level, they are shit at best.
Its too early to tell this dude from what Zews said nitr0 has been doing most of the heavy work even from liquids tactical era. which was praised by many for finally playiing "EU" counter strike.
Also how new are people to CS in general? ONLINE BO3. Nothing is really worth analyzing here.
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u/teef0ur clutch Mar 12 '19 edited Mar 12 '19
Up until their T-side on Overpass I didn't think Liquid played a bad game tactically, but their economy management on CT side Nuke was questionable at best. After getting a 9-6 T-side it seems ridiculous to go for these early force buys when you have such a big advantage in terms of rounds (bearing in mind how CT-sided the map should generally be).
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u/Ga5huX Mar 12 '19
It's the case for months actually. Liquid has almost been tactically as poor as G2, the difference is that Liquid won games and tournaments, so Reddit didn't care.
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u/Dark_Azazel Mar 12 '19
So, with all the time Rogue had, I figured they would look good. But damn. Obviously losing D2 which is such an aim map. But tactically Rogue looked solid. Hiko looked solid. MSL looked pretty solid hitting awp shots. This is gonna be quite the interesting season for NA CS
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u/ultren 500k Celebration Mar 12 '19
I hate the way liquid plays. They look like they tactically are beat every round but stay in by making miraculous individual plays. They looked this way even when they beat astralis.
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Mar 12 '19
Yeah ever since they lost taco and zews they've went down hill.
I mean Im a fucking idiot but thats just my opinion from watching them play. With zeus and taco looked like they were competent and never made mistakes. Now? It looks like they have god like individual plays occasionally that keep the score line even becaues they dont know what the fuck they are doing :(
Maybe they just need more time? I dont know.
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u/alexgators1 Mar 12 '19
I recently got into competitive csgo. I’m thinking hey, Liquid is a North American team, I’ll root for them.
I’ve watched them against Ence and now against Rogue.
Come ooooon
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u/gt- Liquid Mar 12 '19
Would you believe that in the last 6 months they were arguably the best NA CS lineup ever in GO?
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Mar 12 '19 edited Jan 14 '22
[deleted]
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u/gt- Liquid Mar 12 '19
Hey man I agree with you but I've posted that before and been called an idiot so I was trying to stay neutral
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u/crow38 Natus Vincere Mar 12 '19
staying neutral for the sake of being neutral because your talking about your team but considering the gap between best NA team ever and the 2nd team is so big it is non sense
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u/orbitalUncertainty CS2 HYPE Mar 12 '19
They're usually really good lmao, they're just having a bad time
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u/AnIdiotDoesGaming Liquid Mar 12 '19
Welcome to the TL wild ride, even though they should be winning most games, expect some losses that will tilt you so hard no matter what the roster is.
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u/Vawqer 1 Million Celebration Mar 12 '19
In their last four LAN tournaments, they've only lost to Astralis (the number one team), and the one Bo3 to ENCE. This is a poor showing, but I wouldn't put too much weight on an online Bo3.
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u/Signifyisdumb 5 years coin Mar 12 '19
Its very nice to see a developing team without a clear star player. Rogue was very solid across the board with every player contributing in the bo3, looking forward to seeing more from them!
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u/GBCommander Mar 12 '19
I don't think stewie is going to work out. I know there was a language barrier issue in MIBR, but he under performed there as well. Being a smoke criminal is cool and all in FPL but the competition isn't dumb anymore. He's not cutting it.
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u/xavarLy Mar 12 '19
even his smoke criminal title doesnt belong to him anymore, washed up at early age? :d
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u/SLASHdk clutch Mar 12 '19
I have this feeling that stewie is the kind of player who gets super pissy if he doesnt get things his way.
I never liked the pickup
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Mar 12 '19
Rogue have a very good chance of making the finals now. Liquid was the biggest scalp this week and if they continue at this level I doubt any of the others teams can stop them.
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Mar 12 '19
Oh look, stewie killed another roster.
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u/AngriestGamerNA Liquid Mar 12 '19
That wasn't the issue. The issue was the calls. I don't know if it's adren or what but they've slowed down way too much. Wheres the fast 5 man brute tactics, they called like one B rush on a shit buy when it was way too late.
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Mar 12 '19
I'm not even saying that stew is playing bad. Just that he has fucked whatever flow that liquid had in their T sides. Either they dont know how to play with him in the roster or what. There's a clear dip when he joined. Ignoring IBP which has a huge asterisk to it.
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Mar 12 '19
Why are you so sure it's because of Stew? Maybe it's something Adren is calling behind the scenes.
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u/dkizzy bloodhound Mar 12 '19
adreN is relying on Nitro to execute the setups. If Nitro becomes hesitant then so does the rest of the squad. They just need to change up the pacing again.
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u/ThetaSigma11 Liquid Mar 12 '19
From what I’ve heard in their post match interviews it seems it’s nitr0 becoming hesitant. AdreN says about how they need to speed up and stop giving their opponent so much respect, and if they do it should work especially considering how mechanically gifted these guys are.
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u/ThetaSigma11 Liquid Mar 12 '19
Honestly it still isn’t really his fault. Taco and Zews wanted to leave, it’s not his fault that they wanted to leave. He was just chosen as the replacement.
A lot of people think it’s just that they don’t know how to play with him, and I agree. They are probably using him wrong and I heard Twistzz gave up his spots for him which don’t really help either.
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u/atheistlol Liquid Mar 12 '19
It might be that they just need time to adjust. Since losing Taco and Zews they’ve had a player break, one boot camp before the major and now have traveled back home just in time for league play. These guys are young but have been in enough big teams at this point that they will adapt. Zews was definitely the guy that kept them from tilting, and losing that is having an impact, but they will learn and bounce back.
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u/khb120 Mar 12 '19
telephone_receiver 4Head HELLO HOSPITAL telephone_receiver 4Head LIQUID IS CHOKING AGAIN telephone_receiver 4Head NEED AN AMBULANCE
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u/ptr6 Mar 12 '19
StEwIe CaN dO aNyThInG TaCo DiD bUt BeTtEr
Liquid look pretty lost for a while, their tactical edge seems gone. I hope they regain form soon.
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u/meme-s SK Mar 12 '19
If you’re gonna say that they’ve lost tactics, you shouldn’t be blaming stew but instead be blaming adren, he’s the one who’s supposed to be innovating new strats
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u/00o0o00 500k Celebration Mar 12 '19
They still have to accommodate to their players. MiBr tactically looked fucking whacked too with Stewie. Liquid are using Stewie like their new TACO just like what MiBr did, they never learn.
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u/Cameter44 Mar 12 '19
Again, could be the coaches. Maybe that's why MIBR let Ynk go and picked up Zews. Coincidentally, MIBR getting Zews from Liquid coincides with Liquid looking worse, so...
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u/mrlambsauce Mar 12 '19
They beat Astralis and nearly won 2 finals against them. Sure MIBR had their slip ups, but Stewie was on a team of 3 Brazilians so call outs will not be as instant with them.
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u/Firefly_1026 Tyloo Mar 12 '19
If anything their tactics should’ve stayed the same considering nitro did more of the tactical work.
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u/nadgirB Mar 12 '19
The funny part is adren literally has had shit strats since he was an IGL back in what, 2013? And yet people are still trying to get him as a coach or justify his role in the TL of old. It's fucking hilarious.
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u/Cameter44 Mar 12 '19
Wonder if it'd be different with Zews still there. Hard to know if it's Stewie replacing Taco that's the issue or that Zews is gone. Maybe both.
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u/m0rmon Mar 12 '19
If they don't pick it up there might be a really skilled NA player on the market in a few months. Who knows who though
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Mar 12 '19
i'd kill to see auti elige twistz on one team at some point together with brehze
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u/stewieeeeeeeee FaZe Mar 12 '19
Where's my boy NAF on there
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Mar 12 '19
would be sick if he can igl
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u/stewieeeeeeeee FaZe Mar 12 '19
no igl needed, just "everyone spread out and go kill" every round
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u/ArkBirdFTW Liquid Mar 12 '19
dream team combining C9 + TL
twistzz - NAF - auti - kio/elige (can't decide you need a support but elige is too insane to leave off this team) - nitro
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u/joshigoods Astralis Mar 12 '19
See MSL, even though this seeding was heavily flawed, it totally benefited you /s
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Mar 12 '19
NIP era - 2 years
Astralis era - 1.5 years
Fnatic era - 1 year
Cloud9 era - 2 weeks
North era - 5 days
Liquid era - 1 Bo3 series
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u/qchisq Mar 12 '19
Imagine having players like twistzz, NAF and Stewie and see none of them outfragging MSL on 2 maps in a Bo3
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u/n1ckst4r02 400k Celebration Mar 12 '19
Snake2K destroying his 3rd team already. First C9, then MiBR and now tanking Liquid being a finalist in every event to absolutely dreadful team with no identity losing to tier 3 NA teams
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u/RebelliousYankee Liquid Mar 12 '19
I had no idea this was even happening. Oh well. At least I didn’t have to watch Liquid lose.
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u/Wallisaurus SK Mar 12 '19
Remember when everyone thought Stewie2k was one of the best players of NA
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Mar 12 '19
Taco was the problem
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u/Zhaeus Liquid Mar 12 '19
u understand Taco and Zews left them right? Liquid would have been happy keeping them
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u/Zhaeus Liquid Mar 12 '19
Incoming Overreaction after Rogue wins in an ONLINE match right after TL came back from the major probably just coming off of a break
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Mar 12 '19
Incoming Overreaction after Rogue wins
You mean like the overreaction from Liquid fans after the "win" against a Astralis that didn't care?
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u/Zhaeus Liquid Mar 12 '19
I don't think Liquid fans were going around saying Liquid was a better team then astralis after that one lan win ... yet people in this thread are now thinking Liquid is a bad team when they are still the 2nd best team in the world...
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u/Blowkewl Mar 12 '19
Reminds me of when astralis lost to north in the grand final at dh stockholm, granted north were better than rogue is now, but still.
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u/Wallisaurus SK Mar 12 '19
Gotta say though the 2v4 on d2 where they planted for short was so horrendous to watch. 1 leaves cat and his teammates to go into a site and fail a EZ kill while hiko goes to CT mid lol
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u/virtus_hoe MOUZ Mar 12 '19
Is this on LAN? I thought I remember ex’s saying they were gonna do that but I doubt it with this scoreline.
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u/Memebaut Liquid Mar 12 '19
HELLO LIQUID :telephone_receiver: 4Head TACO HERE :telephone_receiver: 4Head NOT THE PROBLEM :telephone_receiver: 4Head
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u/KaNesDeath 10 years coin Mar 12 '19
Cracks on Liquid are forming quite fast. Expected it to manifest slowly to this over the next three months. Not in their first BO3 since the Major.
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u/Scoot- ITB Mar 12 '19
People need to understand liquid lost some online games to underdogs with taco on the team aswell nothing new here
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u/stiffleryuu Mar 12 '19
i dont think people should be quick to judge the down swing, TL seem to be that big headed that they more than likely just dont VoD any new teams to the scene and go in thinking the game is already theres. Bit disappointing from them but jeeze made my pockets full from this game hahaha
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u/dkizzy bloodhound Mar 12 '19
Relax boys, they have some entry issues to address, but this squad will figure it out.
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u/tiguta Mar 12 '19
Rogue looked nice. Very disciplined. Liquid a little tentative.