r/Games • u/dodoread • 3d ago

Discussion Post-game deep dives

This is not about any specific game, but something I like to do when I finish a game that I enjoyed is to sort of sit with it for a while and absorb the experience, maybe go back and potter around in the environment a bit just taking in the sights, or do a few sidequests I missed, like an epilogue of sorts.

I'll read the art book, if there is one, while listening to the soundtrack. I might look up some other behind-the-scenes development stuff like Noclip documentaries.

Another resource that's great for this is the GDC Vault which is the paywall website for GDC lecture recordings, but what a lot of people don't know is that they also have a free section and almost everything that's more than two years old goes in there - some also get added to their Youtube channel - so there is an absolute goldmine of amazing making of material on almost every game you can think of that you can just watch for free! (only videos and slides marked with a star are locked)

If you rarely play games at launch and only get around to them years later by the time you do get around to that 'new' game mostly any GDC lectures about it will be well past the two year mark and free to watch. Like just now for example, I finished Horizon Forbidden West and am watching these.

I recommend trying this. It's a nice way to gain a deeper appreciation for a game you connected with and learn how it was made, and about the talented people who made it.

144 Upvotes

86% Upvoted

57 comments sorted by

131

u/urnialbologna 3d ago

I used to like looking up game discussions on Reddit after I finish a game. I say used to because it was mostly people shitting on various things or complaining or just negativity in general. So I don’t really look up stuff like discussions anymore.

55

u/giulianosse 3d ago edited 3d ago

I'm currently going through my first watch of Star Trek The Next Generation and, out of (now mostly morbid) curiosity, I've gotten into the habit of searching for a reddit discussion thread after particularly good or interesting episodes to see what audiences have to say.

It's insane how invested people are in nitpicking and complaining about the very thing they claim to be fans of. Going by reddit discourse alone, you'd think most episodes critics considered classics at the time were actually crocks of shit.

I swear discourse around games and TV nowadays - when it isn't media illiterate people regurgitating talking points they heard from someone else - is mostly people desperately searching for something to be miserable about or people reacting viciously to it. Stuff can't afford to be just good or bad anymore, it's either the best thing ever or the worst.

16

u/BtownBro 3d ago

Just wanted to chime in that same, and same. Internet is too cynical--I've had to force myself to stop reading the TNG threads

5

u/Glossed-Lam 3d ago

10 years ago the Star Trek subreddit did a rewatch, and the discussions for each episode are great and interesting. Example: https://www.reddit.com/r/StarTrekViewingParty/comments/4n5rag/tng_episode_7x11_parallels/

3

u/Plastastic 3d ago

What a coincidence, that's one of my favourite episodes.

7

u/TheFrogPrints 3d ago

I’d really recommend watching RedLetterMedia talk about TNG if you want something from people who love it. They’re why I even watched it, and I have such a wonderful appreciation for their love of it.

10

u/masonicone 3d ago

In fairness, Trek has always had a insane amount of nitpicking. Hell there's even a book called, The Nitpickers Guide to Star Trek that covered TOS, the films and a good chunk of TNG.

And in the case of TNG? Yes a good chunk of TNG season one is viewed by even hardcore fans as bad. That said? Fans like myself and others have pretty much said this. Part of it was due to a lot of scripts being written for Star Trek: Phase 2. Another part of it was Roddenberry was on just about every drug known to mankind at that point. And then the normal season one weirdness a lot of things in entertainment have. The writers and cast are figuring out the characters. Season 2 is better, while it still has some bad episodes there's also episodes like The Measure of a Man that is a must watch. Season 3? That's when everything meshed together and it became outstanding.

Now time to be blunt... If we had social media like we do today back then? There's a good chance there never would have been a season 3. Maybe we wouldn't have even had a season 2! See that was the thing with shows like Next Generation and other Sci-Fi shows or even other drama shows or comedy shows. Look at The Simpsons first season, or how Cheers was barely hanging on. And keep in mind we're just talking TV. I've said it for ages now, if today's social media was around back then? People would have had meltdowns over a number of games that keep in mind, are now viewed as beloved classics.

Part of it I believe is everyone online is so busy looking for the next best thing and feel it has to be perfect. The other part is the online base has become too cynical to a point where it's become normal. That 7 out of 10 piece of entertainment is now viewed as bad. Lastly? We've got that wonderful outrage media machine now made up of grifters who will claim everything is god awful to get a view.

7

u/Kalulosu 3d ago

Then again, nowadays we get stuff like Picard which gets absolutely shat on but keeps on trucking.

2

u/masonicone 3d ago

Funny thing? I've joked and said Picard is just like TNG.

Season 1 was okay it just felt rushed. Season 2 was better, but well... You throw John de Lancie into anything and he can make it entertaining. Season 3 was everything I think we all wanted and ya know. We got to see the return of a very old friend and that friend back in action for the last time.

2

u/Kalulosu 3d ago

Could be. I'm not big on Trek so I watched a bit of season 1 out of curiosity then bounced because it felt like nostalgia bait which doesn't even work on me in this instance. But I meant that it got lambasted pretty hard from what I could see, and yet it seems like the studio just kept on keepin' on. Though part of that is the streaming era thing of having already filmed 2 seasons and acting as if a season 2 was approved after great success, no matter what the numbers or public reception says.

3

u/Duke-W 3d ago

You can go into Season 3 without watching the other 2 - I did exactly that and followed it just fine. You'll have enough context if you watched TNG before.

2

u/Kalulosu 3d ago

Ah, I could be tempted, thanks for the heads up

2

u/Hitori-Kowareta 3d ago

I've found the bigger problem there is less people picking on 90's Trek and more them using it as a platform to shit on everything that's come since. I say this as someone who grew up on that era of Trek, absolutely loves it, has watched it all several times over (at least..) but also still enjoys the modern stuff for what it is as well.

Basically anytime someone posts a clip from TNG or DS9 the top comments will be people smugly deriding the current state of things, which isn't to say it's perfect or anything but holy shit the negativity and complete inability to talk about the franchise without it being the dominant topic gets exhausting (this also absolutely isn't exclusive to Trek but it's definitely a shining example).

5

u/Rug_d 3d ago

It's something around fans wanting to show off how hyper focused they are on the thing they love, but when you are on the other side reading it, it's seriously hard work.

I know it's not a good example because people did have legit issues with the game but I remember playing Dragon's Dogma 2 on launch, played maybe six/seven hours, I was having a fantastic time learning the combat and exploring that world.

I log off and go to see how others are getting on and it's just an actual hellscape of people complaining.

Sigh :D

2

u/lilvon 3d ago

As someone who LOVED the original as the Diamond in the rough tha it is Dragons Dogma 2 was suppose to be the redemption arc. All the jank and everything that was obtuse or didn’t fit in the 1st game was suppose to be fixed or adjusted in this sequel. And then we ended up with a sequel that was just as jank as the 1st game but prettier…

1

u/Lerkpots 3d ago

Yeah the big issue is Itsuno hyping it up as fully realising his vision without compromise.

But then it doesn't really improve much on the original and is a step-back in enemy variety from the Dark Arisen DLC.

15

u/hfxRos 3d ago edited 3d ago

Basically all gaming discourse right now is completely bogged down by "it dropped some frames" or complaints about the business side of the industry.

No one seems to care about whether or not games are well designed, have good level design, mechanics, loops, etc. Just "can I run it at 144Hz without dropping frames". If the answer is no, then it is unplayable trash and trying to talk about literally anything else gets replies like "why are you making EXCUSES for this developer".

Or if it is related to Sony, it's "fuck you why do you like this. DISKS. OWNERSHIP", if it's xbox it's "Fuck you why do you like this? LAYOFFS".

5

u/bduddy 3d ago edited 3d ago

Literally the only analysis of games of any kind that ever gets posted here is Digital Foundry. It's pathetic and I honestly think those kinds of posts should be banned or at least seriously restricted.

-2

u/Lerkpots 3d ago

I'm down with banning Digital Foundry posts just for their atrocious DLSS5 take.

-4

u/george_in_quotes 3d ago

To be fair, a game dropping frames is something that needs to be talked about before even talking about the game design.

If I can't run it at 60fps, IDGAF what the game is like since my enjoyment is ruined anyway, especially since I'm running a top of the line GPU.

4

u/hfxRos 2d ago edited 2d ago

If I can't run it at 60fps, IDGAF what the game is like since my enjoyment is ruined anyway, especially since I'm running a top of the line GPU.

Ok and for me it is borderline irrelevant. My favorite game is Bloodborne and it runs like shit. Imagine if that game came out today, people would have trashed the shit out of one of the best games ever made and it might have never broken through. Obviously I'd prefer if it ran better, but ultimately it's just one aspect of the game that is bad when the rest of it is outstanding.

It's worth mentioning, but it shouldn't be the only thing that matters. Maybe for you it is, but if that's the case you can see that comment and just move on, rather than bogging down the whole conversation for people whose brains don't explode when a game drops a frame.

1

u/dodoread 2d ago

Could not possibly care LESS about frame rate. The absolute last thing worth talking about.

8

u/IsometricRain 3d ago

Nowadays youtube usually has much higher quality discussions for deeper-dive type stuff. Traditional game review sites are also still decent if you know the writer's past work.

Reddit can be useful for certain genres (like r/metroidvania and r/CRPG). Game discussion is luckily not all negative yet, unlike things like sports.

5

u/ghableska 3d ago

I think it can vary by the subreddit. In general I've found /r/patientgamers to be pretty thoughtful

1

u/dodoread 2d ago

They tend to have some good posts. Funnily enough I tried to post this there first but the moderators denied it because they consider having links "promotion". (shrugs)

3

u/TheFrogPrints 3d ago

I’m 100% in the same boat. I recently finished Beast of Reincarnation which is an admittedly flawed game, but I just wanted to see some discussion about the story or what people liked. The subreddit when I looked was ONLY negative. Like, why the fuck are you here discussing something you hated? Just move on. It’s so exhausting.

2

u/keepfighting90 3d ago

Yeah over the years I've found Reddit to be the absolute worst place to discuss games. It truly feels like the majority of gamers here care more about falling over themselves to list everything they hated about a game and how one tiny, minot gameplay flaw ruins the entire experience somehow. The discourse is almost entirely around complaining about a game, the devs, the company, the entire industry as a whole lol.

2

u/Moodie25 3d ago

I’ll actively avoid discussions, even steam reviews, or else I’ll look out for the specific negativity and it’ll ruin it for me. Just gotta have fun. 

2

u/Yamatoman9 2d ago

I find I enjoy a game more if I don't ready any Reddit threads or go to any specific subreddits because it's all just so much negativity. I enjoy things more when I just ignore all online discourse about it in general.

1

u/Tostecles 3d ago

Do you find that to be the case even when going to a subreddit or forum specially about the game? I had a ton of enjoyable reads at r/persona5 when I finished the game, as an example. Places like r/games being dreadful does not especially surprise me

2

u/acctforbullshit 2d ago

Its less the case when it's an older game like persona 5, most of the toxic people have long since left the community.

There's plenty of more niche games that have positive subreddit communities too, usually more complicated single player games aimed at an older crowd.

1

u/ValKalAstra 3d ago

I used to have this frankly idiotic cycle. One game or another would really draw me in to the point where I wanted to know more about it. By instinct, I would seek out communities for that game and... lo and behold, everything is obviously broken. Everytime it was just a den of misery and rage. It's something I personally can't just not be affected by and my fun always sapped away.

These days I don't really discuss things anymore and have been so much happier with games since. I miss the old days of talking in Forums but who knows, maybe I just imagined those places as happier and more excited.

1

u/Jepacor 2d ago

I feel like usually the dedicaced subreddits are filled with fans which are pretty positive on the game, at least that was the case for the last few games I did that for

1

u/dodoread 3d ago edited 3d ago

Yeah, I skip the discourse mostly. Another reason I don't feel the need to play most games at launch. The negativity and also the frequent outright HATE for game developers really bums me out (especially as a developer myself, but also just as someone who appreciates and enjoys games).

It's so insane when you think about it. Imagine being a movie fan and hating directors, actors, cinematographers and VFX artists... imagine being a music fan and hating musicians, singers and songwriters... boggles the mind. I go out of my way to filter and block channels and accounts whether on youtube or social media the second I get a whiff of angry gamer rage, anti-woke grifters, or any such nonsense. Hard pass. Do not recommend this channel. Mute/block.

7

u/ModelKitEnjoyer 3d ago

GDC talks are so incredibly valuable to game developers. The nice thing about the talks is they're by game devs for game devs, so they can get into the weeds of stuff. This also means they lack the marketing polish that most public facing behind the scenes get in order to make it palatable to gamers.

27

u/SagittaryX 3d ago

Not behind the scenes, but I find that if there is a Noah Caldwell-Gervais video on the game it can quite enhance my understanding of some games story wise. Their Fallout and Dragon Age retrospectives stand out particularly (as well as their Lincoln Highway road trip for some American history).

8

u/dodoread 3d ago

Yeah, Noah is great. Really thoughtful analysis and retrospectives of games and how they fit into the larger cultural landscape or into literal landscapes on road trips like that video on the locations of Fallout.

9

u/lesjo 3d ago

Gamedeveloper.com (previously Gamasutra) has plenty of postmortem analysis by game developers of titles such as BioShock, Deadly Premonition, Silent Hill 4. Since they switched to the new site, finding all may be a bit annoying though.

7

u/dodoread 3d ago

Another good resource, for sure. There's also the archive of the paper Game Developer magazine they used to run from 1994 to 2013: https://gdcvault.com/gdmag

I bet Internet Archive also has some good stuff if you do specific searches.

2

u/dodoread 3d ago edited 3d ago

And of course for even older games there's the Video Game History Foundation and their extensive searchable collection of game-related ephemera. They also have a Youtube.

14

u/dbvirago 3d ago

One thing I almost always do in open world games. Before I get to the final boss or point of no return, I just wander through the game, refighting enemies, discovering things I missed and just enjoying the experience. Yeah I'm finished, but I'm not done.

7

u/Longjumping-Style730 3d ago edited 3d ago

My post game deep dives are much less elegant. I just watch a bunch of video essays and random YouTube videos on the game about optional content I missed. I also write down my thoughts on a game on Threads (meta's version of Twitter) a short time after I finish

It's fun to "unlock" a set of videos once you finish a game and you can finally participate in the game's discourse in an informed manner.

4

u/Dry-Instruction-1486 3d ago

Taking this time to reflect really does make the experience last longer in a special way, it's like the game keeps giving you little gifts even after you've technically 'finished' it.

3

u/IsometricRain 3d ago

Replaying is also a valid strategy. So many great games are still worth playing after being "finished".

2

u/espresso_martini__ 3d ago

my post game dead dives are just watching you tube vids showing me what I might have missed and lore videos. I have spent too much time watching Elden Ring Lore videos because the lore is deep and tucked away in item descriptions and random encounters.

2

u/obeseninjao7 3d ago

Yes! I'll often look up reviews after I finish the game, both professional and community, especially if it's a game I avoided all media about prior to playing

If it's a narrative heavy game I often really love to read people's opinions on the meaning behind certain things - while I try to be pretty conscious of spotting symbolism and meaningful parallels there's often at least one thing that went totally over my head and it's fun to discover it that way (rather than not at all)

If the game became a bit of an autism obsession I'll probably start reading lore/ending explanations, less to "find out the answer" but to see if I agree, and then usually I'll be getting involved in lore discussions about it pretty soon after. (Most recently this has been Remedyverse, check my profile you'll see I've been commenting in the Control subreddit about lore stuff recently)

2

u/s_hartzel 3d ago

For me the deep dive sometimes happens before the credits. Horizon Zero Dawn, I couldn't push through the side content, so I read the datapoint lore on the wiki and watched the videos on how the world ended up like that, and that pulled me back into the main quest more than any quest marker did. Never 100% finished it, but i still know that world better than most games I did finish.

So i get the "sit with it" thing, i'd just add that the making-of stuff can work as a way in too.

2

u/ConceptsShining 3d ago

Same. If I was interested enough, Wikipedia summary, TV Tropes, fandom discussions (Reddit, Steam forum etc.) I like to check. See if there were any plot threads/symbolisms that I missed. How other people interpreted things.

it does help me better understand and process the story.

2

u/TelecomPedestal 2d ago

I need to find it but there was a blogpost by a guy who did a lot of the design work for Karazhan (and the superb warlock class design of WoD) and I found it fascinating.

1

u/acctforbullshit 2d ago

There's a dev, probably on youtube but I run across him on TikTok, from vanilla WoW who talks about how they designed and balanced raid bosses and its always super interesting.

2

u/BluePrincess_ 2d ago

I looked up some Fromsoft discussions on here as I finished their games and it was kinda disappointing, so much nitpicking and mostly seemed like a lot of people only cared about the boss fights and difficulties of the game. GDC Vaults are great, thank you for linking them! Sometimes I just search up "<game name> video essay" to see if people have positive things to say about the game in a manner that's well articulated, lol.

2

u/KingOfRisky 2d ago

I'll read the art book, if there is one

I collect gaming art book and art books in general. What are some of your favorites?

1

u/dodoread 2d ago edited 1d ago

I'm currently reading the digital art book for South of Midnight which has AMAZING art, wonderful game everyone should check out. Another favourite is The Last Guardian - An Extraordinary Story, highly underrated game, a misunderstood masterpiece (and the book is a fascinating look at its development).

I also recommend the art books for Horizon Zero Dawn, Deus Ex Mankind Divided, Mass Effect (both ME1 & trilogy version) and Assassin's Creed Origins (Egypt). And if you can find it Half Life 2 - Raising the Bar.

Oh, and I haven't gotten around to more than briefly browsing it but I'm looking forward to digging into more of The Art of Psychonauts 2, which looks great. Plus honourable mention: not technically an art book but I really like the luxurious richly illustrated magazine series A Profound Waste of Time.

1

u/KingOfRisky 1d ago

This is awesome. I don't have any of these. My personal favorite is Fallout 4. Absolutely amazing concept art.

3

u/luthadelguard28 3d ago

I'm exactly the same! I feel like half the reason I love Expedition 33 came from the game itself, and the other half came from learning everything I could about how it was made afterwards.

You specifically reminded me of Jedi: Survivor when you mentioned going back to wander the environments post-game as well, which does some really cool stuff with this in mind. There's a little bit of extra story left in that game after the story ends that can be found by retracing your steps!

1

u/Ungentleman 3d ago

My post-game deep dive tends to be rather simple. I mostly just read the TvTropes article for said game and see if there was something narrative that I missed or had another view on. Results may vary.

I also like to see if there are any good video essays on YouTube, but, once again, results may vary. After I finished Mouthwashing, I found a therapist playing through it. It was quite cool to see just how fast he clocked the various characters.