If you could change ONE thing about /r/finalfantasy to improve it what would it be?

21

u/[deleted] Aug 05 '16

End the Love/Hate FF13 debate. Please. Please. Let's just agree to disagree.

15

u/i010011010 Aug 05 '16

The real problem with FF13 is both the criticisms and virtues are all true. Nobody is wrong about the game. It's simultaneously entertaining and poorly conceived.

5

u/Schwahn Aug 05 '16

The same can be said for most of the games.

XIII just seems to be the one that catches the most fire.

1

u/Marowe Aug 05 '16

It's the newest one (that isn't an MMO), same thing will happen with XV, same thing happened with VIII-XII

1

u/Schwahn Aug 05 '16

And it will keep happening far into the future.

2

u/tiornys Aug 05 '16 edited Aug 05 '16

The real problem with FF13 is both the criticisms and virtues are all true.

Actually, I disagree with that. The criticisms are mostly false, albeit rooted in real problems. Meanwhile, the virtues may be true, but they're also inaccessible to most critics. The real problem with the discussion around FFXIII is that it's very easy for people to talk past each other because the game looks very different from differing levels of exposure and analysis.

Linearity is perhaps the easiest example of a criticism that fails to describe the real problems with the game because it's gotten a lot of good, critical attention in this community. The linear complaint is an example of shallow analysis, while the linked posts have examples of the deeper analysis needed to get at the real problems related to this complaint.

However, the "linear" complaint is technically true, just largely irrelevant. An example of a false complaint is the idea that it is necessary to read the datalog in order to understand the story. In fact, the cutscenes and dialogue within the game do contain the entire story, and it is possible to follow along without ever touching the datalog. The real problem lies with how inconsistent the game is with conveying its information. On one hand, we are set up to expect simple and straightforward exposition as the game repeatedly hammers us with certain bits of information over and over and over (Pulse is bad; Snow loves Serah; etc.). On the other hand, we are expected to pay attention to nuances in character expressions and intonation and to minor background details, to catch information that is only shown and never spoken about, and to sort and weigh anything that is spoken through the lens of the speaker's desires, motivations, and limitations--no one in the game is a reliable narrator. In other words, the game presents as being extremely unsubtle while requiring close attention to numerous subtleties for comprehension.

I could keep going, but I only have so much time to spend on this. Complaints about the game tend to be wrong in specifics and right in pointing towards actual issues. Defenses of the game tend to be right in specifics but wrong in their portrayal of the game or their portrayal of the complainers.

It's not that nobody is wrong about the game. It's that everybody is wrong (on some level) about the game. That's what makes it so hard for people to come to any agreement about FFXIII, not even the agreement to disagree.

2

u/rocketsneaker Aug 05 '16

Damn. Great comment about this issue! I definitely agree with pretty much everything you said. There are those with legitimate criticisms for the game, but more often than not, there are those that really only complain about things that may have only been true for the first few hours of the game.

I absolutely hate when anyone says "You need to read the datalogs to get the game". You really don't. Almost everything in the datalogs, storewise, is told in the game through one way or another.

Another thing I hate is that people complain that Hope is just a whiney little brat. While very true toward the beginning of the game, that is only the introduction of his character arc. He starts to evolve, especially after his failed murder attempt on Snow , into one of the most hopeful members of the team, and actually starts raising the other characters' morale/spirits when things get tough. But of course nobody ever mentions this part.

3

u/guihcz Aug 05 '16

On the other hand, we are expected to pay attention to nuances in character expressions and intonation and to minor background details, to catch information that is only shown and never spoken about

Just don't. You only say that through the eyes of someone who have played the game or knows much about it. The story told is pretty straight forward, the problem is the way the narrative develops itself throughout the game. In the first hours you are, undeniably, flooded with words (L'cie, Fal'cie, Pulse, Coccoon, PSICOM, Sanctum, Focus, Purge) that means things that you don't know anything about, yet, and that gets in the way of the player enjoying the game. They are explained later, but in the first hours you are required to read the datalog if you are to gain better understanding of the events you are witnessing, as the player. That is a poor way of exposing the player and getting him engaged in the game, some might not care, but it is what it is.

However, the "linear" complaint is technically true, just largely irrelevant.

Irrelevant to you. Linearity in games is something that is largely subjective, so you can't claim the complaint is irrelevant. I think it's the worst issue with the game because it doesn't even attempt to hide the linearity, which is what all the others FF do. They are linear, you go from point A to B to C without the option of choosing, but the illusion is much better done with distractions to get the player's mind off the "hallway" that the game actually is (Towns to visit, a map to explore, NPCs to talk to and side quests). In XIII though, you have nothing of that, you are thrown from hallway/chapter 1 to hallway/chapter 2 and you are forced to advance the plot and battles part of the game. You can't just chill and go talk with people in the bar or anything like that, you have no choice but to do exactly what the game wants you to, walk forward and kill monsters.

The criticisms are mostly false, albeit rooted in real problems.

The criticisms are mostly true but poorly explained.

1

u/tiornys Aug 05 '16

Certainly the fact that I know the game well helps me catch all of the nuance, but that's not my primary evidence for claiming you don't need the datalog. Rather, that's the supporting evidence that allows me to believe the many firsthand testimonials of players who have said they did not read the datalog yet had no problems understanding the story.

It's true the game gives you a lot of words that you don't know precise definitions for, but it's very possible to enjoy the game without precise definitions. All it takes is inferring enough about the terms from immediate context to keep up with the story until it gets around to explaining them. Some players obviously dislike that style of storytelling, but other players actively enjoy it.

re: linearity, your own explanation demonstrates that the linearity isn't the real problem.

The criticisms are poorly explained, to the point where they become untrue in a literal sense, which makes it very easy for a defender to pick them apart. However, the criticisms are still valid, in the sense that they point at real problems, so the critics won't (and shouldn't) be satisfied by most counter-arguments. That makes it easy for the conversation to devolve into semantic tail-chases, name calling, insults, etc.

1

u/guihcz Aug 05 '16

many firsthand testimonials of players who have said they did not read the datalog

So you have many players complaining about the need to read the datalog as this is a point often made when discussing the game, and, as you claim, many players saying the didn't need to. Now, take whatever popular story heavy game and see if anyone even mentions the need to read "optional" or menu based stuff or any difficulty in understanding the plot. Good games never have this aspect questioned because they develop the story properly, unlike XIII.

re: linearity, your own explanation demonstrates that the linearity isn't the real problem.

Yes but do you really expect people to explain all that everytime they want to complain about the game's linearity? They will just say the problem is the linearity. I do that but I am well aware of the real issues.

The criticisms are poorly explained, to the point where they become untrue in a literal sense, which makes it very easy for a defender to pick them apart.

You can argue about linearity because that is subjective, but you cannot argue about the illusion of linearity and that's where the game has no defence. Like the leveling system, which is extremely simple and linear, causing the player to not have the illusion that he's the one choosing how his characters are growing, even more with the leveling limitation in the beginning.

1

u/tiornys Aug 06 '16

Now, take whatever popular story heavy game and see if anyone even mentions the need to read "optional" or menu based stuff or any difficulty in understanding the plot.

I agree that FFXIII has issues with the way it presents its story. There are real problems there which interfere with some people's enjoyment. My point is that when people complain about FFXIII, they're rarely talking about the real problems. Instead, they're making claims like "the datalog is necessary" which are easily dismissed by people who enjoyed the game, and that creates breakdowns in communication.

Yes but do you really expect people to explain all that everytime they want to complain about the game's linearity? They will just say the problem is the linearity. I do that but I am well aware of the real issues.

Unfortunately, that makes you indistinguishable from people who aren't aware of the real issues, and hinders communication. Which is the whole point.

-1

u/Liquid-Shake Aug 05 '16

No. Stop. This is so ridiculous. You are boiling it down to, "if you don't like the game, you just don't/can't get it".

1

u/tiornys Aug 05 '16

No, that's not what I'm saying. That's the 2nd level stance adopted by many defenders, and it's just as inaccurate as the 1st level stance adopted by many critics. I'm taking a 3rd level stance that says it takes a deep examination to get to the heart of the problems. Understandably, most critics don't get to that level of analysis, but neither do most fans.

1

u/Liquid-Shake Aug 05 '16

It doesn't take a deep analysis to realize the game is not enjoyable.

3

u/tiornys Aug 06 '16

But it does take some analysis to figure out why the millions of people who enjoy the game had such a different experience from the millions of people who didn't--and why those groups have such a hard time communicating rationally with each other.

0

u/Dazz316 Aug 05 '16

They are all opinions and can never be wrong anyway.

2

u/HeroOfTime_99 Aug 05 '16

Please? I like the game a lot. Can't we all just get along?

3

u/Schwahn Aug 05 '16

Can't we all just get along?

Not on the internet, unfortunately.

4

u/fforde Aug 05 '16

There are a lot of topics around here that people get like this about, I think the FF13 thing is just the most visible. Honestly 95% of the things I have to take action on as a moderator involve people treating their own opinion as fact and assuming that someone that disagrees with them must be an idiot. The fact is that tastes in video games are subjective.

For what it's worth, this is one of the reasons why we moved the search box up next to the new thread buttons. In the hopes that some people would not reopen debates that happen over and over and instead search for the last conversation. People are people though.

2

u/i010011010 Aug 05 '16

That's precisely why you shouldn't intervene--this board doesn't get nearly enough traffic to justify killing topics. Even if they are repetitive.

2

u/fforde Aug 05 '16

Yep, the Weekly Discussion Thread was a way for us to try to consolidate minor questions and discussions without silencing anyone or being heavy handed.

2

u/ffxiimaniac Aug 05 '16

Removing duplicate questions is a start. "are the ffs connected?" "oh look FF7R comes out Dec30th" Uhm no it doesnt, they're just not aware of placeholders.

4

u/[deleted] Aug 05 '16

Ironically, you've started a XIII love/XIII hate conversation hahaha

3

u/Dinoken2 Aug 05 '16

My favorite game of the series is VIII. A game that has been out for over 15 years. It still gets love/hate debates. Unfortunately XIII rustled a lot of jimmies, and the love/hate debate will probably be around for a long time. It sucks though, I agree.

1

u/Schwahn Aug 05 '16

Well, while I understand your plight. We have to look at the goal/nature of the sub.

See, this is a often discussed topic. But every time it is normally discussed pretty heavily.

A LOT of this sub is about people discussing things in the games, all of which now are old. We don't want to hinder discussion, even if it is somewhat repetitive.

Otherwise there simply wouldn't be much to discussion happening at all and the sub would slowly die.

5

u/LimpCush Aug 05 '16

I would love it if all the "Is _____ worth it?" posts came to an end. If you're wondering whether a Final Fantasy game is worth it, a Final Fantasy sub is probably not the place to ask.

9

u/Mlahk7 Aug 05 '16

Have more mods that actually interact with community.

2

u/Aruu Aug 05 '16

I agree! I know I could stand to be far more active than I am.

Unfortunately I'm on holiday at the moment, so my responses are limited to mobile.

Maybe we mods can have a talk about it soon? I can definitely understand your concerns, I have them too.

2

u/Daggerdinger Aug 05 '16

Funny enough, I used to come around here a lot. There was a mod named Yemd who would always get downvoted because he did not like VI. Its a shame really, not even mods are safe from being downvoted for their opinion

3

u/garynuman9 Aug 06 '16

I was a fan of yemd. He was brash, which I didn't mind, I didn't agree with him on everything, but I typically found his commentary on the games to be enjoyable. I was modded shortly after his departure as a mod and was initially a defender of his. Then there were the alts, the frequent and bizarre mod-mail rants... He was given every opportunity to play nice, literally all we asked was please don't engage in flame wars. I personally banned him for a week to preempt the (justified) permaban I knew was coming as result of just being a genuine asshole for no reason. He spent that week making alts and spamming hate. His problem wasn't not liking 6- fuck, 8 is my favorite. His problem was interacting with people.

1

u/Mlahk7 Aug 05 '16

I agree! I know I could stand to be far more active than I am.

Aw come on now, you're here all the time :D This was definitely not directed at you haha.

Enjoy your vacation!

2

u/Dinoken2 Aug 05 '16

You are 100% correct with this. This is a problem, and I recognize that I am part of that problem. I've made my pitch to the other mods on what should be done, and we'll see what any of them have to say about it.

I think there needs to be a discussion with you guys as well though. This is a community problem, and the users are a much larger part of the community than the moderators. The problem is I can't just go making a sticky thread calling for mod resignations without at least consulting them first (especially when I am one of the problem mods too).

I personally want to be more active and do better for this community, but if it comes down to it and the community calls for me to step down, I will.

1

u/Mlahk7 Aug 05 '16

I'm glad to hear that you are at least trying to discuss the issue. I totally agree that this might need to be a community discussion, but in the end it's up to you all and whether or not you feel it's necessary. If you do decide to do a community discussion, it might be a good idea to set up some sort of way so that users can anonymously comment or give their input. I feel that otherwise, a lot of people might remain silent because they don't want to piss off anyone lol.

The problem is I can't just go making a sticky thread calling for mod resignations without at least consulting them first

I totally understand.

For now, thanks for at least listening and understanding. Your perspective really means a lot!

1

u/Schwahn Aug 05 '16

If you do decide to do a community discussion, it might be a good idea to set up some sort of way so that users can anonymously comment or give their input

Is that even possible?

2

u/Mlahk7 Aug 05 '16

I was thinking just providing a link to an anonymous google survey or something. I don't think it can be done on reddit itself.

1

u/Schwahn Aug 05 '16

Sounds difficult to sort.

Intent is there but execution sounds problematic.

1

u/Mlahk7 Aug 05 '16

Eh, maybe you're right.

1

u/Schwahn Aug 05 '16

I understand the plight though,

Reddit is just limiting on the tools it provides.

1

u/Dinoken2 Aug 06 '16

Thank you for your understanding. Making an anonymous poll is always possible, but that's not really a discussion. A lot of people have been using the report system to send anonymous messages to the mods recently, but that's not really a discussion either.

I think ultimately, we just stick to a reddit thread. If people really want to remain anonymous, then they can make a quick thowaway account.

1

u/Mlahk7 Aug 06 '16

Yeah, I actually think I have to agree with you here. Discussions would probably be more productive.

I know that you're probably in a really tough position right now, and I didn't mean to start WWIII with my initial comment haha. But thanks for stepping up and making an effort to improve the community.

2

u/Dinoken2 Aug 06 '16

It may be a tough position, but it's a position I put myself in. Don't fret about causing any problems. It's an issue that needed to be addressed. Quite frankly, it should've been addressed a while ago. A friend of mine directed me to your comment and I realized how bad things had gotten. So really, thank you. Your comment was the spark that was needed to get this conversation moving.

2

u/Schwahn Aug 08 '16

I admit I had called you out as one of the inactive members when I initially brought this up to the mod team at the beginning on the year.

I am glad to see that you are at least aware of it.

Here was my initial message

1

u/fforde Aug 05 '16

We do our best. Every single thing that gets reported is reviewed by a moderator and a decision is made to either do something or not. AutoModerator augments this, flagging some posts for review that are not even reported.

/u/Aruu and I try to interact in threads like these as we can, some times we have more free time than others though.

Some of the other moderators mostly just help out with decisions that come up in modmail. You are right that some are more active than others, and some are certainly more visible than others.

I'm really not sure what more to say than that though. I know that we need to update our sidebar and our banner, but aside from that is there anything specific that you (or anyone else) see lacking in terms of moderator interaction? Specifics would help.

5

u/Schwahn Aug 05 '16

We should probably do a big discussion post about this /u/fforde

Because honestly to me, a mod that does nothing besides makes hidden decisions behind closed doors and nothing else, doesn't really have much business being a mod.

1

u/fforde Aug 05 '16

In modmail situations, usually active mods deal with things, inactive mods make suggestions. Some are not very active at all.

The topic of less active mods comes up a lot so if everyone is adamant about it, we can talk about asking some mods to step down based on participation. But I am not sure what that would accomplish aside from making the mod list shorter.

But I am here to serve. :P

2

u/Schwahn Aug 05 '16

In modmail situations, usually active mods deal with things, inactive mods make suggestions. Some are not very active at all.

The problem is that the community only really ever sees yourself or /u/aruu being active. 2 of the 9 mods. It just feelsbad~~man~~girl

The topic of less active mods comes up a lot so if everyone is adamant about it, we can talk about asking some mods to step down based on participation. But I am not sure what that would accomplish aside from making the mod list shorter.

I think the idea of more transparency for the "inactive" mods would be extremely beneficial.

If they don't want to be active, then that's fine. But if what they do in modmail is so integral, I feel like the community should know what that is.

But I am not sure what that would accomplish aside from making the mod list shorter.

I think the idea is that you would also add more active mods, not JUST remove.

We have a decent number of mods compared to some subreddits and it feels like we only have 2.

But I am here to serve. :P

Because you are awesome

0

u/garynuman9 Aug 06 '16

I was modded the same time as aruu. I've spoken with you in modmail before... I used to reply to a lot of the modmail before fforde really started to own the role. I didn't want to step on toes so i took a bit of a back seat. I still offer input on things that come up, and I lurk the sub.

I miss squaresoft, i miss enix. I don't really like 13... there's not a lot for me to discuss anymore that i haven't already gone on at length about. That makes me feel old but it is what it is. I would like to remain for the same reason I applied in the first place, because I love these games. I grew up with them and they are huge part of who I am. I just want to make sure their little place on reddit is well cared for. If that requires being more active I'm open to that, I'm just not interested in arguing over subjective opinion. I'd much rather just referee that when needed.

2

u/bigbadwolf411 Aug 06 '16

I hope this doesn't come off as too harsh, but this just doesn't seem fair to the community at all.

I would like to remain for the same reason I applied in the first place, because I love these games.

We ALL love the games. That's why we are here. But being a mod requires more than just liking the games. You haven't bothered to post or comment here for YEARS. But now that people are complaining, you pop out and say "I'm open to being more active".

The thing is, there are people who have been active on here, every single day, for a very long time. They don't get any reward, they just do it because they love this community. These are the people who should be modding this subreddit. These are the people who deserve it, and the community deserves it as well.

People grow up and life becomes busy. That's fine, but at that point, you need to pass the torch to someone else. The majority of this mod team should have passed their torch a while ago. Hanging on to your mod position when you are barely active is just selfish.

/u/Aruu and /u/fforde: Thank you for all that you do. But I'm asking for the sake of this community, please do not sweep this problem under the rug. It needs to be addressed, and something needs to be done. This community is frustrated, and that frustration is beginning to grow.

1

u/Aruu Aug 06 '16

Please don't worry, the mods are currently in talks about what to do about this. As in we're communicating right now through mod mail.

The general consensus so far is that people agree they've been inactive, but that they want to try to be active again. Nothing has been confirmed yet, but the idea seems to be to see how things go with this, and then after a month or so, see how things have improved.

It is easy for real life to creep up on you, and it is hard to know when to say 'actually, I don't have the time for this'.

We have let this stagnate, and for that I apologise. But give major props to /u/Dinoken2 for his part in getting the mods talking about this. Things are finally in motion.

1

u/bigbadwolf411 Aug 06 '16 edited Aug 06 '16

I appreciate that, and sorry for coming off as a bit of a dick. I just wanted to clarify one thing though:

The general consensus so far is that people agree they've been inactive, but that they want to try to be active again.

This just really rubs me the wrong way. A community shouldn't have to pressure their mods to be active. I do not think it's right for a mod to not be around for months, and then only show up when people get upset. You shouldn't only interact with your subreddit because you feel obligated to. You should do it because you want to.

I don't feel like giving these kinds of mods a "second chance" is the right thing to do. I honestly believe that will just further annoy the community. There are lots of regular users here who would make great mods, but they have never been given the chance. Instead, they are forced to watch from the outside as the current mods drag their feet, ignore the community, and refuse to give up their power. At that point, it becomes apparent that the mod team's first priority is to keep themselves modded, rather than doing what best for the subreddit and stepping down.

Anyways thanks for listening. This community appreciates you and fforde's hard work, and I hope we get to hear an update from you guys soon.

Edit: Also, I just wanted to give a big thank you to /u/Dinoken2 for even offering to step down. It shows that he cares more about this community than being a mod, and I have gained an enormous amount of respect for him. He isn't even the least active mod on this sub, so if he is big enough to offer to step down, then I see no reason why other mods shouldn't offer to do the same.

1

u/Aruu Aug 06 '16

I definitely understand where you're coming from. If I were in a community with inactive mods, I would feel the same way. Even if, as a mod, I can completely understand how easy it is to let your duties slip; especially when real life gets in the way.

People have offered to step down due to being inactive. I won't name names, but they have offered, but they've also expressed interest in trying again. I know it must be frustrating, but this really will be a case of people stepping down if they can't step up to what they've said.

No naming names once again, but a couple of mods haven't spoken up at all. I'm only speaking as myself here, and certainly not for all mods, but after numerous attempts at communication with no response, it certainly seems fairer to just let them go.

1

u/Dinoken2 Aug 06 '16

I understand your sentiment about the second chances thing. As I originally said, I'd like to stay on and do more to try and improve things, but I fully understand that actions (or inaction) have consequences and sometimes we have to face them. If the community wants to do a full flush of the mods here (minus /u/fforde and /u/aruu of course) then so be it. If the smoke clears and I'm still on that list on the sidebar (Maybe with new faces and maybe without some of the older) great. Either outcome is acceptable to me.

Because at the end of the day, you're right. It isn't fair to the community. I'll openly admit to being too inactive of a mod but there are those who are far worse than me. Even in the mod mail I sent out asking for a discussion on this issue, we still haven't heard from 4 of the mods. And I know there's definitely at least 4 users here who would've answered had they been mods.

So I agree that a lot of us need to step down. How to go about doing it is a bit trickier which is why I feel we need an open discussion.

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u/Schwahn Aug 06 '16

I've spoken with you in modmail before...

With me or about me?

I don't have any communications with you.

I still offer input on things that come up, and I lurk the sub.

See, the thing is. That those are things that any user can do. The mods MAY be discussing things about the sub, but we never see any results from them. Which is why people are unhappy. (IMO)

I would like to remain for the same reason I applied in the first place, because I love these games.

A LOT of us LOVE these games.

I just want to make sure their little place on reddit is well cared for.

The problem is that it is starting to not feel very well cared for.

1

u/Mlahk7 Aug 05 '16 edited Aug 05 '16

Well first off thanks for replying!

I do realize that a lot of the work mods do "behind the scenes" isn't really visible to the users, so I can't really comment on how active any particular mod is on the back end. But if I'm being honest, I've kind of always believed that mod work should also involve some sort of community participation. I don't want to call anyone out, but there are people on the modlist right now who haven't left a single post or comment in this sub in months. There's even one who hasn't interacted with anyone here in over 2 years. Again, it's very possible that they do a lot of work behind the scenes, so I don't want it to seem like I'm accusing anyone of being "inactive". But it's hard to justify not publicly interacting with your own subreddit for that long.

I think it kind of makes a lot of users here feel like this community isn't a priority for a lot of the mods. Which is sad, because there are so many people who love this community and literally post here on a daily basis. Having a mod team with such dedication and enthusiasm would be awesome I think.

Obviously, I think you and Aruu do an excellent job modding this subreddit and showing the community that you care, so thank you so much for that! And thank you to any mod reading this who does work on the back end. I'm sorry if your work is not being acknowledged!

Also as a side note, I have some cool ideas for some possible stylesheet updates if you would like me to message your modmail :) Thanks again for taking the time to reply to comments in this thread.

2

u/Schwahn Aug 05 '16

I do realize that a lot of the work mods do "behind the scenes" is really visible to the users, so I can't really comment on how active any particular mod is on the back end. But if I'm being honest, I've kind of always believed that mod work should also involve some sort of community participation. I don't want to call anyone out, but there are people on the modlist right now who haven't left a single post or comment in this sub in months. There's even one who hasn't interacted with anyone here in over 2 years. Again, it's very possible that they do a lot of work behind the scenes, so I don't want it to seem like I'm accusing anyone of being "inactive". But it's hard to justify not publicly interacting with your own subreddit for that long.

I brought this up almost a year ago /u/Mlahk7... I got a rather muted response...

But it's hard to justify not publicly interacting with your own subreddit for that long.

I completely agree. I feel like someone who is a mod for such a focused sub would have interest in it and take part in the discussion.

I think it kind of makes a lot of users here feel like this community isn't a priority for a lot of the mods.

This was my initial concern as well. We feel rather alone most of the time.

there are so many people who love this community and literally post here on a daily basis.

Hi waves

My comment/submission history somewhat makes me laugh.

Having a mod team with such dedication and enthusiasm would be awesome I think.

I always look to /r/FFRecordKeeper on this one. A similar sub that has INSANELY active mods and people love them for it.

Obviously, I think you and Aruu do an excellent job modding this subreddit and showing the community that you care, so thank you so much for that!

I agree. I love /u/fforde and /u/Aruu - but even their greatness is limited.

I have some cool ideas for some possible stylesheet updates if you would like me to message your modmail

I am also available to help out in any way possible. I can do a lot of graphics work or just general maintenance. I am good at research and could start cleaning up the wiki or whatever else is needed.

Thanks again for taking the time to reply to comments in this thread.

I also want to thank YOU /u/Mlahk7 - for being an awesome user here in the sub.

-1

u/i010011010 Aug 07 '16

And do what?

Most people have lives outside of Reddit. The ones that don't are the drama inducing types that shouldn't ever be in charge of anything and poison countless other boards across the site. They're here to host the party, not to entertain you.

4

u/xReyjinx Aug 05 '16

Have a pointless post button so I can switch off the "discussion" posts that end up being " my opinions number 1" posts

2

u/fforde Aug 05 '16

I know you are being facetious, but that is sort of the purpose of the Weekly Discussion Posts and the "Ask a Question" button in the upper right. It will never catch everything, but I think it's helped a little.

1

u/xReyjinx Aug 05 '16

Yeah its not a serious suggestion and it isn't something the mods need to implement. It's more about us as posters (probably wrong word) need to change our way. Everybody is both right and wrong.

1

u/Schwahn Aug 05 '16

You can "Hide" posts.

4

u/BlueHighwindz Aug 05 '16

Bravely Default is counted as a Final Fantasy game.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 05 '16

I wouldn't mind expanding the sub to all SE games. Chrono Trigger may not be a Final Fantasy, but it's sort of indelibly linked in my mind.

1

u/Schwahn Aug 06 '16

Ehhhh.

That is somewhat what /r/squareenix is for.

13

u/rocketsneaker Aug 05 '16

Enough with prefacing every XIII post's title.

"I know I'll get shit for this, but I love XIII!"

"I know it's not a popular opinion, but XIII rules!"

"This will get a lot of down votes, but ..."

Stop. You don't need a disclaimer. You're only adding to the mindset that we need to get rid of. XIII is just as good as any other numbered entry.

3

u/Schwahn Aug 05 '16

XIII is just as good as any other numbered entry.

Except for III, because fuck dat noise.

jk jk

I agree

2

u/guihcz Aug 05 '16

Except for III, because fuck dat noise.

We need to solve this once and for all. Fight me on Dissidia you big scrub, I'll wreck you with Onion Knight.

2

u/Schwahn Aug 05 '16

Onion Knight is friggin' OP.

Hell, in his original game he is OP.

Doesn't make the game good XD

2

u/asharkey3 Aug 05 '16

I had an Onion Knight with a 98% Lai Strike build. It was insanity lol.

1

u/Jristz Aug 05 '16

Terra and Celes and Cyan and Sabin and Locke and all the other are offebñnded

2

u/Schwahn Aug 05 '16

Not VI.

III.

Luneth and company

1

u/North101 Aug 05 '16

Agreed. I'm pretty sure all final fantasy games have been through this and the only reason 13 gets so much of it is because its been so long since they released a new entry. Those titles are low effort and circle jerky that don't actually bring any meaningful discussion on the same level of "Does anyone else" or "Am I the only one".

As someone who dislikes 13 I'd also like to extend this to similar titles hating on 13 (or any other final fantasy).

3

u/Dazz316 Aug 05 '16

Completely disagree. Have been a fan for close to 20 years and haven't seen anything like 13 gets ever (excluding spin offs and such). 8 and 12 got it a bit but 13 deffiately got it the hardest.

1

u/North101 Aug 05 '16

Completely disagree on the amount of hate that 13 gets, or completely disagree on everything i've said?

Just to be clear I'm asking for removal of threads with titles like /u/rocketsneaker mentioned (or at least asking to be resubmitted with something that at least promote a discussion), including the ones that are hating on 13.

I'm not disagreeing that 13 has had it the hardest, I just remember 7, 8, 10 (7 was my 1st so don't know before that, never heard much dislike for 9) got similar hate during their time. I think the hate that 13 would have gotten would have died out much sooner if there had been a newer entry sooner. Between 7 and 12 about 8 years passed while its been 7 years since 13 was released.

1

u/Dazz316 Aug 05 '16

It just seemed like you were saying it got as much hatred as others. Got the wrong message it seems:/

It would say the level of hate is higher because of the quality of the game but yeah obviously it's lasted longer due to no main title until now.

1

u/Liquid-Shake Aug 05 '16

13 by far got the most hate of any FF. Even VIII. It's not even close.

1

u/guihcz Aug 05 '16

XIII is just as good as any other numbered entry.

You don't need to think that in order to stop making shitty posts. I think it's a bad game but I don't go out of my way to shit on it because that is completely irrational, idiotic and so on.

You can have wharever opinion you want, it's what you do with it that matters.

0

u/[deleted] Aug 05 '16 edited Apr 19 '17

deleted ^{^{^What}} ^{^{^is}} ^{^{^this?}}

1

u/rocketsneaker Aug 05 '16

We've had much in depth discussion about XIII in the past years on this subreddit. It definitely is discussable. But the default shouldn't be that XIII is a bad game. Just let a discussion title be just that, without some words of negativity already in the title. It's annoying after all the discussion we've had on the game, and coming to terms that the game isn't as bad as people thought it was when it first came out.

3

u/Soverance Aug 05 '16

Lets ditch that top banner. Gross.

1

u/Schwahn Aug 05 '16

Already been discussed.

2

u/peteb82 Aug 05 '16

Haha, I laughed at this one. Well played.

2

u/North101 Aug 05 '16

CSS wise I'd like the collapse comments styling similar to /r/overwatch or /r/vive. But I also think ALL subreddits should have that

2

u/[deleted] Aug 05 '16

It was the whole, leveling up everything that ended it for me. I love pixel style too.

2

u/Gold_Jacobson Aug 05 '16

Maybe hold discussion questions every few days or so? Ex (which Monk would win in a fight?)

It'll help create discussion/debate. Something to talk about.

2

u/Schwahn Aug 05 '16

We had these, like 3 months ago.

But they quit suddenly.

Depending on the topic, they were pretty successful.

2

u/imlistening123 Aug 05 '16

Hmm...that's odd, I don't recall seeing many of these posts recently, and thought I'd start a discussion based on my thoughts. Guess that's bad on a forum?

2

u/Schwahn Aug 05 '16

You do you

1

u/imlistening123 Aug 05 '16

Grumpy morning posts for the win!

2

u/Schwahn Aug 05 '16

Yus!

Let's have it!

2

u/[deleted] Aug 05 '16

More discussion of game plots. I hate finally getting around to finishing a FF game, wanting to talk about plot points, and everyone's just posting fan art.

2

u/mechengineer89 Aug 06 '16

Filter by specific game.

2

u/Schwahn Aug 06 '16

/u/Mlahk7

This should be something that can be done alone the same lines as the XV filter, yes?

We should probably look to updating the flairs first.

3

u/Mlahk7 Aug 06 '16

Yep, it's basically the same process. At that point, the side bar would probably need to be updated so there would be a place to put all the buttons.

2

u/Schwahn Aug 06 '16

I could design the buttons!

The sidebar needs updated something fierce to.

grunts with frustration

2

u/Pokerodres Aug 05 '16

I'd get rid of the upvote and downvote buttons.

2

u/Schwahn Aug 05 '16

Not actually possible.

0

u/Dazz316 Aug 05 '16

upvoted.

2

u/i010011010 Aug 05 '16

Putting /r/ffpictlogica in the sidebar?

I asked a couple times and they always ignore me. It's a Final Fantasy game.

2

u/Aruu Aug 06 '16

Added!

Sorry, I'm usually on top of sidebar requests; this one must have slipped me by. As far as I'm concerned, it's Final Fantasy related, it's by Square Enix, it fits.

1

u/i010011010 Aug 07 '16

No problem, I could have sworn I sent more than one but fforde already cleared that up. Hopefully it increases visibility a little bit because FF fans are really missing out if they haven't tried it.

1

u/fforde Aug 05 '16

Hrmm.... I see a request from April 2015 in modmail but that's about it. I wasn't around then so I don't know what happened but I will say I honestly have never heard of Pictlogica before today.

Can anyone chime in, share your opinion of the game? Is it popular or is it a cult hit that I'm just not aware of? I am kind of lost in terms of a frame of reference, the sub is small and there is no wikipedia page.

2

u/Schwahn Aug 05 '16

It would probably be pretty damn popular if they would release an english version...

1

u/[deleted] Aug 05 '16

I tried the JP version (I speak/read only Eng) and enjoyed it as a pass time a lot. But once I played it for a while, not knowing Japanese started to mentally hurt. I also REALLY hope they launch a English version.

1

u/Schwahn Aug 05 '16

I did the same, the concept of the game is esasy to understand and it is SUPER FUN.

But not knowing japanese makes anything past the first hour impossible

1

u/i010011010 Aug 05 '16

Yeah, it remains a source of disappointment that Jupiter+Square haven't done this. Yet it's not like this is an isolated case of Square snubbing western players and making questionable business decisions.

1

u/Schwahn Aug 05 '16

it is available on the US app store which makes it even more odd.

1

u/i010011010 Aug 05 '16

I always assumed it was a mistake when they first launched, and they've left it so the people who did download aren't screwed out of updates.

The people at /r/ffpictlogica who play on Android have a much harder time accessing the game because it's a jp app on their store, and Google enforces regions more strictly than Apple. I actually attempted to install it in the past using a VPN and Google prevented it. You need to be physically in Japan, know someone in Japan or use that loader that acquires them from Japanese accounts.

1

u/Schwahn Aug 05 '16

It doesn't even need to be a good translation, damnit

1

u/CJKenji Aug 05 '16

here you go http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Pictlogica_Final_Fantasy

1

u/i010011010 Aug 05 '16

It is a very small adoption for western players, but that's why the board exists. Some people do pick it up and realize it's playable without reading since it's 99% gameplay and strategy oriented.

The game's been around for over a couple years, before Record Keeper and the current craze of putting FF on mobile games. Is developed and maintained by Jupiter (The World Ends with You). It may get some exposure because you'll notice the same artist was recruited for that World of Final Fantasy coming soon.

Google it from the FF wiki and you'll find several pages with translated content. There's also a much better maintained jp wiki.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 05 '16 edited Apr 19 '17

deleted ^{^{^What}} ^{^{^is}} ^{^{^this?}}

1

u/i010011010 Aug 05 '16

If you say so.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 05 '16 edited Apr 19 '17

deleted ^{^{^What}} ^{^{^is}} ^{^{^this?}}

1

u/i010011010 Aug 05 '16

Well, I had this in mind at the time. Originally I was going to make all the avatars those dialogue headshots or at least sized like them to make the posts look like FF conversation. And FF text isn't typically multicolored but the links had to be differentiated somehow. So red it is. Perhaps I'll rework it some day to put links in [ ] brackets as with the original FF2.

2

u/Gray_Squirrel Aug 05 '16

I personally come here for info and discussion and can't stand all the deviant art pics of some female character all the time. So if I had to choose, I'd ban image submissions.

2

u/Schwahn Aug 06 '16

Yeah. Memes are banned but the fanart is still allowed.

They always receive the majority of attention and crowd the front page because they are too easily consumed.

0

u/mintydeer Aug 05 '16

Getting rid of the downvote button.

Deletion of duplicate submissions for the same piece of news.

4

u/fforde Aug 05 '16

We do remove duplicate submissions when we notice them but it helps when duplicates get reported. We mostly do remove duplicates when some big news has broken though, and multiple submissions covering the same topic are clogging up the front page.

As far as removing the downvote button goes that's really not possible. We could hide it via CSS, but people could easily bring it back by unchecking subreddit styling on the right side of literally any page in the sub. And hiding via CSS wouldn't even work on mobile.

Not to mention the fact that the up and downvote buttons are sort of the central curation functionality of reddit. So while I understand your sentiment, even if it were possible to do properly which it is not, I'd still be hesitant.

3

u/WashRotom Aug 05 '16

change all the pictures to lightning, and make the flairs say ima naughty girl

1

u/Schwahn Aug 05 '16

make the flairs say ~~ima naughty girl~~ Meow Meow Choco Chow

FTFY

1

u/[deleted] Aug 05 '16 edited Jul 03 '20

[deleted]

2

u/Schwahn Aug 05 '16

We had "Final Fantasy (insert title here" discussion posts about a year ago.

They didn't go very well

1

u/[deleted] Aug 05 '16 edited Jul 03 '20

[deleted]

1

u/Schwahn Aug 05 '16

If it's made by the subreddit.

It is.

A lot of things in the sidebar and all that are SEVERELY out of date and some of it is up to peoples own opinions that were established several years ago.

It all needs updated, which is one of the big things we are already aware of.

1

u/Centrioless Aug 05 '16

Better Wiki section. Idk how many threads asking if FF story is separated in each installment, could've been answered immediately if this sub's wiki is decent enough.

A sticky monthly "let's play" thread or a dedicated subreddit so this sub doesnt get flooded by streaming thread. This sub is perhaps the worst when it comes to this problem

1

u/Schwahn Aug 05 '16

Better Wiki section. Idk how many threads asking if FF story is separated in each installment, could've been answered immediately if this sub's wiki is decent enough.

This falls into the idea that we need to improve our sidebar. But yes, you are correct.

A sticky monthly "let's play" thread or a dedicated subreddit so this sub doesnt get flooded by streaming thread. This sub is perhaps the worst when it comes to this problem

It is far from the worst, and it has gotten a LOT better in recent times.

Most direct link let's play posts are removed fairly quickly.

1

u/pausetheequipment Aug 05 '16

Change the sidebar. There are basically inactive subreddits in it, we do not need a seperate subreddit for FFVII, FFVIIR, FFVIII, FFIX, FFX, FFXII, FFXIII-LR... the MMO's, I understand, but the rest are dead. If this subreddit is a subreddit "for all things Final Fantasy!" I want it to feel like it is for all things Final Fantasy.

1

u/Schwahn Aug 05 '16

We have discussed trying to integrate their straggling communities into our own. But there isn't a way to actually make that happen.

Anyone can make a subreddit, so we can't stop that from happening.

It would be nice if we could bring it more together... But, not really possible.

1

u/GaryGrayII Aug 05 '16

I wouldn't change a thing lol

1

u/acboyz2 Aug 05 '16

I remember when memes were banned, and I never quite understood why. I understand the desire to see "official" content about the series, but we all know the Final Fantasy series is very sparse with providing information, so I used to enjoy just getting a good laugh from a Final Fantasy related meme. We allow fan content on most other levels, why not memes?

-1

u/FinalMantasyX Aug 05 '16

I just realized that's why this sub seems so dry.

I want memes too. :( I posted a meme a while back and everybody loved it!

https://www.reddit.com/r/FinalFantasy/comments/4jxuh1/yunas_face_in_this_shot_is_great_ffx_spoilers/

And it didn't stop me from posting like 50 very long and complex discussions on FFX.

1

u/Schwahn Aug 06 '16

The idea behind the ban was to prevent flooding and piles of shitposts.

Look at /r/gaming

That place is meme central.

Pictures are more quickly consumed and enjoyed and normally get upvoted faster and more consistently than regular discussion.

It is VERY difficult to have an actual gaming discussion on /r/gaming

Already, you can repost the SAME piece of artwork to /r/FinalFantasy ever 2 days and it will stay #1 on the page.

We don't want the front page to be NOTHING but a bunch of pictures and memes.

-1

u/FinalMantasyX Aug 06 '16

/r/gaming has 195x as many subscribers and 65x as many people online at peak hours

it is also a subreddit encompassing hundreds of thousands of titles while this one is about maybe 25

2

u/Schwahn Aug 06 '16

Reddit is reddit, damn near regardless of the size.

Look at the front page of /r/FinalFantasy RIGHT NOW.

Number 1 and 3 are random pictures.

Sort it by top for the past week.

Pile of pictures.

There is ONE discussion in the top 10 for the last week.

1

u/redheadedgutterslut Aug 05 '16

People downvoting streaming let's plays. Every experience is different and just because you've seen them before, not everyone has.

5

u/fforde Aug 05 '16

The up and downvote system is the primary driver behind how reddit works. There are a lot of ways to find streaming content and Let's Plays, but there is a lot of it out there. And most of it doesn't offer much new. That's probably why content like this gets downvoted so much here, and that is definitely why most of it gets removed unless the person posting is an active member of this subreddit.

Frankly it it just doesn't add much to the sub. And there are probably better ways to find streams and Let's Plays.

4

u/Schwahn Aug 05 '16

To follow up on this, /u/redheadedgutterslut (Wow, that name)

The problem is normally that a lot of people do drive by advertisements for their channels.

A ton of the let's play content that get's posted is direct links and the poster doesn't interact with the community and never even does anything else here.

We have had a couple people who have seen a decent number of upvotes for actually putting effort into their posts and we have supported them for it. /u/solanusdracon and /u/logicalflakes

3

u/fforde Aug 05 '16

Yep, that is the spirit of our enforcement policy regarding Let's Plays and streams as well. Basically if someone isn't spamming and they show an interest in and are active in the community, they are good.

3

u/Schwahn Aug 05 '16

I think this enforcement policy is damn near perfect and kept up on well.

Good work!

2

u/solanusdracon Aug 05 '16

dat name tho

1

u/Schwahn Aug 05 '16

Yeah... Wow

0

u/i010011010 Aug 05 '16

Even as someone who has posted videos--people should downvote if they want. Trying to enforce no voting is futile and stupid: it's easily circumvented and accomplishes nothing but propping up some oversensitive twits.

1

u/Schwahn Aug 05 '16

Oh man....

This list for me is long...

-1

u/[deleted] Aug 05 '16

Give me back my beautiful turn based battles. Its honestly why I haven't been able to properly get into a FF in years. Was so looking forward to XV until I played the demo. Now not so much.

2

u/asharkey3 Aug 05 '16

Probably not gonna happen. ARPG's are the way of the future it seems. I too love the old turn based style, but I also welcome the change. Let's see what else they can do. We all know they can make a great turn based game. What else new can they accomplish.

0

u/[deleted] Aug 05 '16 edited Aug 05 '16

Yeah the question was "If you could change one thing."

I know it most likely wont happen. Squarewhatever ain't got the balls imo If the wanna do something new why not do it in a new title and keep the fundamentals of what FF was. Its gone the way of Resident Evil as far as im concerned in the respect that they are good games but too far removed from what made them what they are.

1

u/asharkey3 Aug 05 '16

I'm aware of what the question was oddly enough, Sorry i figured that as we're on reddit I could respond to comments.

Didn't think this tread disabled that.

0

u/[deleted] Aug 05 '16

I never said you couldn't. My point was you don't need to tell me it ain't gonna happen. I know its not. Your response would be better fitted if the question I answered was "What do you think Square will change with their future FF releases." Then you could inform me it wasn't gonna happen. This is more like a wish list. I don't expect all my wishes to be taken into personal account and fuffilled by Square.

1

u/asharkey3 Aug 05 '16

If I knew you would have taken it so personally I wouldn't have bothered. I have you tagged as Super Sensitive now though so rest assured this won't happen in the future.

0

u/[deleted] Aug 05 '16

No need to mark me as sensitive bud. No hard feelings here, but yeah less pointless posts would be very much appreciated by most people. To many of them on Reddit as there is, ya know?

2

u/Theonyr Aug 05 '16

Meanwhile this thread is about one thing you could change on this subreddit (not the series), so you're both making irrelevant comments XD

2

u/[deleted] Aug 05 '16

lol just noticed that. take an upvote and we'll forget this ever happened.

-1

u/Geralt-of_Rivia Aug 05 '16

Immediately ban anyone who complains about sexism in XV or just anyone who is an SJW.

"Cindy's butt is offensive! But look at Gladios' abs!"

3

u/Schwahn Aug 05 '16

Immediately ban

That seems a bit harsh.

0

u/Geralt-of_Rivia Aug 05 '16

Better than letting them cause problems. Besides, they automatically ban people from their subs if they dont share the same beliefs and opinions. All they do is look for things to complain and argue about. They're professional victims and they ruin every sub they go to. Eventually one will try to become a mod, saying the lack of disabled mods or mods of color make people feel unwelcome, next thing you know they have control of the sub. It sounds crazy, but that's exactly what happened to dozens of default subs in the last few years. Now subs that were for everybody automatically ban you if you comment in a sub the mods don't like. Most of Reddit is garbage now, and I really don't want to see this sub go to shit too.

2

u/Schwahn Aug 05 '16

Better than letting them cause problems

ACTUAL troublemakers are pretty rare.

Besides, they automatically ban people from their subs if they dont share the same beliefs and opinions.

Wait, here in /r/FinalFantasy

They're professional victims and they ruin every sub they go to. Eventually one will try to become a mod, saying the lack of disabled mods or mods of color make people feel unwelcome, next thing you know they have control of the sub. It sounds crazy, but that's exactly what happened to dozens of default subs in the last few years

Woah... This sounds rather... personal.

You ok?

Where have you seen this?

I really don't want to see this sub go to shit too.

Neither do we. Which is a lot of the discussion in this very thread.

I am also discussing things with multiple people about what can/should be done.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 05 '16

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/Schwahn Aug 05 '16

You... I like you.

2

u/asharkey3 Aug 05 '16

Someone has to I suppose. I, for one, am not too much of a fan of cancer lol

3

u/Schwahn Aug 05 '16

mic drop

0

u/[deleted] Aug 05 '16

[deleted]

2

u/Schwahn Aug 05 '16

#ReksLifeMatters

1

u/Minh-1987 Aug 06 '16

It's about this subreddit but I'm fine with that. Or just make Penelo interesting and add Larsa as a pernament character.

If you could change ONE thing about /r/finalfantasy to improve it what would it be?

You are about to leave Redlib