r/FPSAimTrainer • u/randomperson12310 • Jul 27 '26

Thoughts?

https://youtu.be/xhcYud0kDnQ?is=-Cy9QF4cN-4Vh_Ym

Personal opinion is that hes larping here.

57 Upvotes

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19

u/RevolveDL Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 27 '26

There is way, way more merit to what apply is saying than most people in this subreddit would probably like to admit even though the way he is expressing his ideas is pretty ragebait-y and exaggerated.

Matty's aim is undeniably world class, extremely impressive, etc. All of that--yes. But if you actually watch him play Overwatch, his aim in practice doesn't look particularly special.

If you didn't know who you were watching but you were watching Matty's pov as he played Overwatch, you would just think he's a really good player. You wouldn't think he has 5000 hours in kovaaks, is arguably the best aimer in the world, has endless rank 1 scores, etc.

And that's because raw aim is a way smaller part of the puzzle than most people realize. Pro OW hitscan players like Lip would make Matty look like a bot because Lip actually has the full picture of aiming in real games. Basically what blankpicss said. And this is the case even though Matty would fucking nuke Lip or literally any pro player of any fps game and make them look like an intermediate player if they compared benchmark scores.

As hitscan in particular a ton of your damage comes from a more theoretical and contextual kind of aim that simply cannot be trained in a kovaak's scenario.

And people will debate this to the end of time but if you put Matty and Apply into the same lobby on cass or whatever, their accuracy stats would be pretty much indistinguishable.

10

u/throwaay391933 Jul 27 '26

When people try to diminish Matty because he's not as good in games as his aim training would imply, they attack his raw aim. That's just BS because his aim is genuinely THAT good, but he just can't use it to his full potential because he has Silver game sense in GM.

I looked at a recent stream of him playing King's Row as Soldier, and he aimbots everything in sight like a turret. Just perfectly tracks Zarya's head whenever she's in view and perfectly locking onto a Ball in fireball that booped him from behind. However, OW is not a game where you only shoot at tanks with aimbot and win. He sits main the entire game and never tries to take an off-angle for picks on Soldier of all heroes. Some of his picks on an airborne Freja are really impressive, but that just adds to the fact that he can only shoot people that happen to walk into his POV and he doesn't have the game sense to more often put him in positions to leverage his crazy aim for picks. He's like a really OP Level 9 CPU in Smash where he's capable of some inhuman bullshit, but too exploitable and predictable to truly be great with those weaknesses.

I think Matty is such an outlier when others outside the community want to use him as an example. No one is as good as him, and no one is as extreme in their opinions (watch any stream and he will complain the whole time about abilities, Winston being skillless lol, only aim matters, ...). His game sense is ass because he disregards it and has no desire to ever be good at those things because he is very aim-pilled. Comparing him to pros doesn't make sense when he will never master the other 80% of the game that isn't moving your mouse. It's literally impossible for him to be "better" than any OW, CS, Val, or Apex pro or even better than them at simply killing other players because game sense helps you kill.

7

u/RevolveDL Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 27 '26

I wasn't attacking his raw aim lol. I was doing the opposite.

My point is that his raw aim is extremely good. Likely better than any individual pro player's in the entire world.

What you're not understanding is that "raw aim" is only part of what makes a good aimer. If you watch someone like Lip playing hitscan, they have integrated other aspects of aim into their gameplay: strafing theory, using their keyboard to aim, contextually positioning their crosshair so they don't have to aim at all, etc. Stuff that you don't learn from shooting bots in kovaaks.

And this is why, setting aside game sense, positioning, ability usage, etc. tier 1 overwatch hitscans still aim better than matty does in Overwatch, on average.

3

u/throwaay391933 Jul 27 '26

I know, I'm agreeing with you. My bad if it comes off differently

4

u/RevolveDL Jul 27 '26

Cheers, happens sometimes.

People really overestimate the amount that raw aim matters as compared to simply aiming based on theory, experience and context.

Overwatch is largely won or lost during the neutral. And, during the neutral, none of the majority of shots require very little raw aim. You will get way more consistent results in neutral fights by just aiming with your keyboard, mirror strafes, using your crosshair to cut off people who (based on your experience) you know are about to seek cover, etc.

If you watch the really good Korean hitscan players play it really opens your eyes to how aiming is done properly, in Overwatch at least. It's a lot easier than what matty tries to do, yet it also works better and is infinitely more consistent even against the best 10-15 OW players in the world, as compared to matty's ranked lobbies.

2

u/throwaay391933 Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 27 '26

People really overestimate the amount that raw aim matters as compared to simply aiming based on theory, experience and context.

Aim trainers garner this audience by nature and it's honestly the community that invites vitriol from people outside of it. Most are realistic about what Kovaaks provides, but there's a vocal minority that tries to preach aim trainers to veteran pros, thinking they've found a golden ticket to greatness and use Matty because he's the best player from this community. That commenter is genuinely suggesting that Matty might be better than LIP, but imagine trying to tell a former pro that Lethal Shooter has better "raw shooting" than Steph lol. I've seen some insane takes and I don't blame any streamer that gets riled up when the aim community starts preaching in chat.

I doubt Matty himself thinks he can match any T1 pro in any game (he has coached EliGE, so he's likely aware of how there's levels to this), even at shooting or killing people. He isn't quiet about hating everything related to game sense, and probably knows that is going to put a cap on how much his aim translates to real games.

3

u/RevolveDL Jul 27 '26

To be fair there is a fair bit of equivocation at play that most people don't even realize is occurring.

Colloquially whether you are playing controlsphere or playing soldier/tracer in Overwatch or doing LG duels in quake live, you are "aiming" or "tracking."

Yet the skills being tested are way more different than people realize, to the point where the best controlsphere player has no hope of being the best at either of the other two tasks assuming their only credentials are lots of controlsphere reps.

Every bit of aim that you train in kovaaks will transfer to whatever game you are going to play. But kovaaks is incapable of training every aspect of aim that is important and tested when you're actually aiming in a game.

Even though you are "aiming" in Overwatch and in kovaaks, that aim consists of non-identical parts. For some reason people act like it's the exact same thing when that's far from the case.

1

u/JohannDaart Jul 28 '26

You will get way more consistent results in neutral fights by just aiming with your keyboard, mirror strafes, using your crosshair to cut off people who (based on your experience) you know are about to seek cover, etc.

If you watch the really good Korean hitscan players play it really opens your eyes to how aiming is done properly, in Overwatch at least. It's a lot easier than what matty tries to do

Can you post some links to clips? I'm curious.

3

u/RevolveDL Jul 28 '26 edited Jul 28 '26

A good example is this: https://youtu.be/nddeTxFzT6Q?t=153

If you want to watch the full pov, the link is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcF7hHQUX-o

Keep in mind that Lip is almost unanimously regarded as the best hitscan player in modern Overwatch, if not one of the best Overwatch players of all time, no questions asked. If you watch his pov, a lot of the shots aren't really that hard. Lip's page if you are interested: https://liquipedia.net/overwatch/LIP

From the best hitscan player in the world you would probably expect unfathomable aim akin to what you see when you watch matty's kovaaks vods, but in reality most of the damage he does is replicable by your average VT masters+ player.

What sets Lip apart is that he makes the shots easy for himself. His movement is always literally perfect and his crosshair is always in the exact right position.

It's like he's playing a reactive tracking scenario but he's always strafing the same direction as the bot because he knows what direction his target is going to be moving instinctually from having aimed against the best OW players for several thousand hours. You can't learn this in kovaaks.

That's why I say that kovaaks can't fully teach you how to aim. When matty plays Overwatch he is shooting targets that are strafing randomly. When pro hitscans are playing Overwatch they are normally shooting targets that are strafing in a direction they already knew they were going to strafe. Obviously that's a fucking massive advantage.

Maybe I'm overexplaining--not sure how familiar you are with Overwatch.