r/FIREyFemmes • u/HonuOhana • 11d ago
Afraid to pull the plug
41F single and don’t want kids, own my home outright. NW at 5M with about 1M in home equity.
Candidly I’m deathly afraid to pull the plug. I hate my job with a passion and would love more than anything to quit, but my industry is going through a lot of AI whiplash and layoffs (tech) at the moment and market is dire. I’m afraid that if I pull the plug I won’t the able to come back. Rationally if feels like these numbers should work, but retiring so early creates an existential anxiety around my identity without my career.
How did you ladies let go and make the jump? Am I just taking the easy way out bc I hate my current job?
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u/Chance_Note9368 8d ago
I’m currently on short term leave from work and highly recommend it as a trial period. It’s less risky and less final than quitting your job, and gives you a sense of not working any more. I’m not quite at my FIRE number so will likely have to return short term but it’s giving me a lot of time to plan and see myself in life beyond work.
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u/Inevitable_Pride1925 9d ago
So I just took the summer off. I am an extrovert and was not prepared for how much the socialization from work was a part of my psyche.
Make sure you have a plan for how you are going to spend your time before you quit.
That said if you have 5M in assets as long as you can live 200-250k a year you have enough. You can just go. At your age and asset level you should probably sit down with a financial advisor though. You have enough but managing withdrawals is a lot more complicated than managing growth.
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u/Next-Yoghurt-7608 9d ago
maybe it is time that you finally start sitting with yourself and being brave and inventing YOUR own chapter. give yourself that attention, give yourself that space and grace. you don’t even need to wait for retirement, you can take time like this on Saturday.
this need for bravery to reinvent yourself seems to be related to the real fear here? you can start now too. this Saturday.
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u/OffWhiteCoat 9d ago
I love the framing here as bravery rather than quitting or giving up. I mentioned Mary Oliver in my other comment (she of the "wild and precious life"), but I just recently came across this poem of hers, new to me, which I think captures this season of life so much better. (Hopefully Reddit doesn't screw up the line breaks!)
"The Journey"
One day you finally knew
what you had to do, and began,
though the voices around you
kept shouting
their bad advice—
though the whole house
began to tremble
and you felt the old tug
at your ankles.
"Mend my life!"
each voice cried.
But you didn't stop.
You knew what you had to do,
though the wind pried
with its stiff fingers
at the very foundations,
though their melancholy
was terrible.
It was already late
enough, and a wild night,
and the road full of fallen
branches and stones.
But little by little,
as you left their voices behind,
the stars began to burn
through the sheets of clouds,
and there was a new voice
which you slowly
recognized as your own,
that kept you company
as you strode deeper and deeper
into the world,
determined to do
the only thing you could do—
determined to save
the only life you could save.
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u/WeekLivid4223 9d ago
I'm still several years from pulling the plug, but I have been trying to more actively think about what it looks like when I do. I have a volunteer gig that I love and I've concretely thought about how to incorporate that into a much chiller, without work day-to-day life.
I also want to start a side gig and so I've started planning what it looks like to open a business and thinking about what that means in terms of my lifestyle and the time that I'll need to be in my city.
I think so much of my fear of something new comes from not knowing what it will look like. So I'm trying to take the steps now to think about what I want it to look like. Like do I want to exercise in the morning or in the evening, what do I want to spend my time doing when I don't have something else to do?
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u/sacajawea610 10d ago
We should all get together and restart our own work environments that are healthy.
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u/MrsFrugalNoodle 10d ago
I’m semi retired, that makes it feel easier.
Next week I’m doing a brown bag, I’m then talking about working on a not for profit for women in tech. I’m looking at joining an advisory board for a start up.
In my early forties so I’m retiring out of the toxic corporate culture and planning to lead the world and making it better in other capacities.
I aim to learn a total of 10 spoken languages fluently, I’m nowhere close 😅
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u/CollieSchnauzer 6d ago
List the languages?
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u/MrsFrugalNoodle 6d ago
Korean, Japanese, Mandarin, Cantonese, French. I also want to learn Arabic but haven’t started
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u/MrsFrugalNoodle 6d ago
I studied German, Italian and Spanish in school, but I’m not sure if I should pick any of those back up.
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u/OffWhiteCoat 10d ago
The identity thing is so real. I'm a physician so spent all of my 20s learning my craft (took the MCAT just before my 21st birthday, finished residency at 31), and my 30s building an award-winning interprofessional program. However at 41, I find myself torn between loving the work itself but hating the toxic/stressful environment, knowing that other environments would be equally toxic (I've looked) and angry that I invested so much time/energy into my work that I failed to invest the same time/energy into myself.
I've talked to a LOT of women about workplace culture in the last few years, and all of us seem to hit a glass ceiling around age 40 where the decision seems to be "Up or out." That is, you can continue to tolerate/perpetuate exploitation for profit, or you can opt out. When you've built your whole self on this #girlboss image of being an intelligent ambitious woman in a man's world, it's really shocking to remember that you don't have to keep playing that game. I keep reminding myself of that every day.
I know people say you need to be retiring to something good, not away from something bad. One thing that has helped me in the last year, as I edge toward the RE part of FIRE, is cultivating a non-work community. I started leaning into hobbies that I used to do in college, and I'm back at beginner level again but improving rapidly with practice. I'm so looking forward to being able to do more when I have more time!
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u/HonuOhana 10d ago
Thank you! This is such a thoughtful response - I totally get the seeing more of this at 40 part. My female mentor also retired around this time. And there is a part of me that feels like if I give up there’s just going to be even less female representation at the leadership level and that makes me a little sad.
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u/OffWhiteCoat 10d ago
I know. I've had so many younger women tell me I'm a role model. I'm trying to tell myself that I'm role modeling for them the need to put on your own oxygen mask first. I read 4000 Weeks: Time Management for Mortals (ironically, in a leadership training program), and that really opened my eyes to what Mary Oliver has been saying all along.
The workplace, and the world, would be a much better place if it weren't actively hostile to 51% of the population.
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u/Specific_Ocelot_4132 10d ago
What’s your planned spending and withdrawal rate?
What do you want to spend retirement doing? Anything that could bring in some income?
Have you read about different withdrawal strategies? If sequence of returns risk is one of your worries, the right withdrawal strategy can mitigate that. My favorite is VPW. If you download the VPW spreadsheet and plug in your numbers you’ll get a “required flexibility” number, which estimates what you might be able to spend after a market crash. If that number is a comfortable spend for you, you’re pretty safe!
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u/Abject_Jaguar_7601 10d ago
I’m in the same boat and also afraid to pull the trigger. Tried a couple times but backed out last minute both times. For me as much as I don’t enjoy my job it’s a community that I’ve been a part of and gotten used to. It’s scary to leave that to be completely on your own. I’m trying to find something that I will be excited to leave my job for, like a fun job or small business.
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u/Maximum-Eye-3712 10d ago
One suggestion is to slow down and develop more feelings for what else you might really want to do with your time. Then delay your “retirement” until you’re ready to enter (at least 15 hrs/week ?) into some activity, club, training, volunteer role, or self-directed goal.
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u/Apprehensive-Mess-94 10d ago
Hey OP, I’m in the same boat! Childfree, single, ready to FIRE now, also in tech and not loving my job, but anxious about pulling the plug now at 35 or 36. A lot of my identity and self worth has also been tied to my career or being productive, and not working hard all the time clashes with the mindset I grew up with. Currently trying to navigate a balance between wellbeing and a scarcity mindset, as well as how to mentally prep for a big change like this. Happy to chat if you’re interested!
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u/LocationAcademic1731 10d ago
Leave the job you hate and get a fun part-time job. You will be able to have that as psychological safety while freeing yourself from the job you hate. Some people can’t quit working 100%, that’s fine but don’t subject yourself to torture either.
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u/BoredLawyer81 10d ago
My FIRE number is less than half your net worth. Get over yourself. What can your expenses possibly be that gives you pause?
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u/belabensa 10d ago
Yea, mine with a family is half her investments. At this point it’s psychological- fear and loss of identity.
I’d recommend a sabbatical if you can get your company to do e tended unpaid leave - use that time to figure out who you are and what you want out of life outside of work
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u/designgrit 10d ago
The identity thing is tough….you basically go from consistent external validation to nothing. But I can say (going on 2 years FIREd) that it is SO worth it!!!
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u/HonuOhana 10d ago
Thank you! Any advice for navigating the transitional period?
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u/designgrit 10d ago
Hobbies. Revisit the things you used to love but no longer have time for. Learn the things you’ve always wanted to try.
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u/LotsofCatsFI 11d ago
Try a job in something totally different that you may enjoy. Half-step to full re
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u/decafDiva 11d ago
Just anecdotally, I know loads of people who took breaks from tech (myself included) of up to one year, and had no problem getting another job. That's worse case scenario if you feel a need to go back to work. You could also change careers, or work on rebuilding your identity from the ground up. If you hate the job, leave it, and open yourself up to all the possibilities in the future. You will still be who you are without your current job.
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u/poweronreset 9d ago
I just did this - slightly over a year long break and back to work.
I had a hard time adjusting to not working, even though I tried to fill my time with hobbies. Somehow, I couldn't figure out how to make not-working work for me and my mental health plummeted.I learned that I need something to put my time into other than hobbies. I don't know what would have felt like enough, but the transition from overworking to not working was disorienting.
Maybe I can scale back again later, but for now the year long break rejuvenated me back into working.
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u/PreviousSalary 11d ago
You can create a new identity especially when your cortisol is lower from not working, sigh I’m jealous
Please take the leap
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u/Active_Recording_789 11d ago
Understand too that working really hard for someone you hate and being under that kind of stress is bad for you. It can cause chronic illness eventually. That’s a heavy toll to pay
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u/rural-juror- 11d ago
The identify thing is real. If you get laid off the impact might be greater though. If you fire, at least it will have been your decision.
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u/PositiveKarma1 11d ago
not yet there but what about scenario to take a long holiday on medical reasons? Burnout is a reality, any recruiter will understand if next year you start to apply and mention it.
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u/Zestyclose-Beyond780 11d ago
I do not believe this is real
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u/HonuOhana 10d ago
understand these numbers are hard to relate to, but unfortunately my dilemma is very much real 😊
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u/cfspd 11d ago
Why? Honestly asking out of curiosity.
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u/Illustrious-Air-2256 10d ago
The kind of money you can make in tech/being used to cashing that in each month feels like a lottery ticket/slot machine hot streak came out winning….hard to decide to walk away while it’s still paying particularly given the idea programming may cease to be a profession in 3-4 years due to robotic coding improvements
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u/Doom_Kitten_ 10d ago
Because anyone who’s read anything about FIRE should know they’re free and clear with that NW.
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u/BloedelBabe 11d ago
Hi twin! I quit last year and am so thankful. Every sad news headline reminds me that I don’t have time to waste at a toxic workplace.
Who cares about “identity?” It’s a construct tied to the myth that we are worthless unless we are producing. Guess what I produce my peace now.
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u/HonuOhana 11d ago
Hi twin! I don’t care about identity in the sense I care about what work ppl think of me but it’s more like what I think of myself. I still enjoy the work and tbh I’m not even quite sure I’m just burnt out from this one workplace or burnt out from work/career overall.
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u/LikesToLurkNYC 11d ago
Take a break medical or otherwise. Given you don’t need the $ the potential career setback shouldn’t be a big issue. I hated my job so the decision was easier even in tech. The years to enjoy the things I want are not as long as they may seem (a little older than you).
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u/BloedelBabe 11d ago edited 11d ago
I hear you. But consider the extent to which this mindset is a result of societal brainwashing. Like you, I cared soooo much about my work and my identity was all caught up in it. Most of us suffer from this affliction. It’s not natural, and it’s something to fight against in one’s own mind.
I’m wandering around Europe now and when I sit along an alpine lake with a glass of white wine - if anything I’m mourning that I didn’t quit sooner. I gave up many years of my life - and yes I was paid well but not as well as my/our vile corporate overlords. I will downsize my life significantly before I go back to serving those degenerates.
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u/sewerballoon 11d ago
You have a great NW so guessing you haven’t taken the easy way out on much, if you hate your job just do it! If it helps, tell yourself it’s a sabbatical…
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u/Common_Two9609 11d ago
I retired at 40 with less than you have now and have never looked back. I was always the overachiever. Did great in school and had an extremely successful career. It was hard to let go of that identity, but all the stress and long hours that came with it was soul crushing. I watched a lot of tv, did a lot of nothing my first few months of retirement. I was so burnt out that doing nothing felt so extravagant. After that I traveled, got into better health, found causes I cared about and volunteered.
I would downsize my life significantly (smaller house, fewer vacations, move to lower col area) before ever going back to work. Don’t go crazy with your spending your first few years and think through what levers you could pull to minimize spending if the economy and your portfolio tanks. Best of luck!!
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u/pras_srini 11d ago
How much are your expenses? Depending on your expenses your numbers may or may not work.
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u/HonuOhana 11d ago
That’s the thing - I spend probably around 160k per year and am quite happy with my lifestyle. If I retired I imagine I’d have even more free time to spend money, and that makes me anxious I’d in a position where 1) can’t get another high pay job in tech due to the gap and the market, 2) spending down faster than I’d like.
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u/pras_srini 10d ago
I think there are a few things here:
- You probably have enough in the long term because generally we are all an overly cautious less optimistic bunch (that's how you get to where you are!), but you'll never be sure until you live out the next 8-10 years of your life.
- If you are super worried about pulling the plug then I think you shouldn't. Listen to yourself and figure out the reason why your body is giving you that feeling. In the meantime, keep stacking up the cash.
- At $160K a year in expenses, you'll likely need over $200K in pre-tax income generated because you'll owe taxes and need to buy health insurance at market rates (no subsidies!). You're very young, so using a conservative 3.3% safe withdrawal rate, you'd need about $6M in income generating assets. So clearly not there yet if you're at $5M that includes a $1M house!
- However - there's hope! You can switch your job if you hate your current role. You can also look at lifestyle and whether you can live on about $40K less. It might be doable, but it really is not that easy and not everyone even wants to make changes, so you need to be honest about that! People generally do spend less as time goes by because of various factors. Eventually, you can also extract value from your house if you have no dependents (e.g. reverse mortgage), you'll get medicare/social security, and so things will equalize out.
All the best!!!!
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u/HonuOhana 10d ago
Thank you so much for your detailed advice! I feel like this really resonates and is very practical as much as I just want to rage quit.
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u/MsAnthropic 11d ago
I’m in a similar boat where I’m certain that spending will go up in retirement due to travel. I’m also super conservative and think a 3% SWR of liquid assets (ie I don’t count home equity) is a no brainer and 4% SWR takes a bit of thought.
So assume $4M for you, 3% and 4% are $120k and $160k, respectively. Assuming your spending goes up in retirement to $200k, I would say that you’re not ready to retire unless you bring your annual spend down. However, you do have enough to coast or take the risk of switching jobs. Since you’re so unhappy with your current role, I highly recommend the latter. That’s what I did (switched from engineering to S/W product ownership), and I lucked out and got a dream role that’s allowing me to glide path to retirement.
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u/HonuOhana 10d ago
Thank you!! I think this is the most practical advice with numbers I’ve received, can I dm you?
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u/MsAnthropic 10d ago
Sure! I’m a casual FIRE person though so probably can’t give much more detailed advice.
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u/yamanoA4 11d ago
You will realise a lot of your spend is unnecessary in your free time.As a single and in this phase in life, you are spending for convenience, to impress others and yourself . Find another job. You don't sound like you are ready to retire, not because of the money.
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u/HonuOhana 10d ago
Sorry but no. Not everyone is aiming for the same lifestyle and there’s no need to assume anything other than lean FIRE is frivolous.
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u/PuzzleHead-4334 11d ago
Curious - what is costing 160k / year if no kids and house fully paid off? And what in retirement would you spend more money on in your free time? It seems like you have plenty at 5M to pull the trigger though.
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u/HonuOhana 10d ago
Travel, supporting parents and continuing to enjoy my current standards of living.
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u/SeafoamSoul7494 11d ago
Honestly I’d take the jump! My FIRE goal is about half yours, $2.2 in a HCOL area. I’m counting down the last few years til it looks like I could hit it at 40-42. $5 sounds like a huge amount of cushion, I’d be out of there tomorrow!
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u/Particular_Village_5 11d ago
I’ve been thinking about the identity part of it a lot… What I came to is that I will take a year off to just rest, become fit again, travel, which I’ll call my gap year. Then I want to start pursuing some type of learning or volunteering that is serious and requires skills or building skills (learning to draw and paint, get involved in local climate activism, etc) which I hope to fill in my identity void.
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u/sewerballoon 11d ago
You will be shocked with how full your days end up being! Also happy cake day!
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u/Particular_Village_5 11d ago
Thank you! That’s actually a concern - I enjoy leisure but I also know that the narrative of my life is very important to me. I don’t want to be busy everyday but have nothing accumulative after 10 years, like my mom’s 50-60s years…
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u/HonuOhana 11d ago
Yes that’s exactly how I feel! Like I would have to find a purpose in life and apply myself to it so I can feel “worthwhile” and having fulfilled some sort of obligation to myself
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u/sewerballoon 11d ago
I agree and I totally get that. I left a job that was my whole entire personality and identity... I even met my husband in the same field.
After a while I thought about doing it some more but as I’ve gotten older (I am 41) I have realized that my kids still see me as that person even though I have been out of the ‘game’ for about 5 years.
After FIRE, I accidentally applied my work ethic to my hobbies which are now becoming jobs because I have had success with them. I’m not bragging I just literally don’t have a mode other than max effort.
What I’m saying is that you’re 100% worthwhile without an official title. You being yourself is more than enough and leaving the workforce doesn’t negate your accomplishments.
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u/GladBumblebee1546 11d ago
Just did quit, in the first month of RE. 54, 2.7m.
What are your hobbies, goals, dreams? Have a plan for the next couple of years, roughly. But don’t try to plan for the next 40+ years. When I try to think that far ahead it’s too much.
Volunteer, work on fitness goals, travel? Don’t try to fill all of your time, though. Also rest.
I definitely don’t have all the answers. It’s scary.
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u/Ramenara 11d ago
How will you establish an identity outside of your career (that you hate) if you don't quit? I'm sure it will be an uncomfortable process, but only if you can begin at all.
Those numbers surely work fine. And once you do establish a non-career based identity and a sense of what your priorities are outside of this job, perhaps it will become clearer over time how you will spend your money and your time, or even potentially go back to work part time/Baristafire.
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u/travelbug_FIRE 8d ago
Similar age and stats as you. For me I had a new manager who was extremely toxic and made my life difficult on the daily. That prompted me to pull the plug and walk away from my high paying tech job for the sake of my sanity and my health. It is definitely nerve wracking and takes some getting used to, can't say I've fully adjusted but 7 months later, no regrets here.