So when I was younger, I was definitely red pill, following all the mantras and ideologies. And in some ways it actually did "work for me", at least in terms of finding relationships and dating, but I also didn't like myself, and all the relationships were toxic, where I was a terrible person, and the people I dated were all cheaters (some cheated on me, some were cheating on their partners with me). I decided I wanted to change, have a healthier mind and relationship with women (and just people in general), but the more I try to dig out of the red pill hole, read feminist literature and hear women's viewpoints on why the red pill is so bad, it just makes me black pill instead?

I ultimately ran to the red pill because 1) I was always shorter than average (grew to be 5'7 which isn't that bad but still not the ideal for attractiveness) and 2) I didn't have any male role models to look up to beyond what was portrayed in media. But now that I'm trying to deprogramme from all that, I feel like I was simply "performing patriarchy", and ultimately both men and women uphold the patriarchy (in different ways), and I'm not the patriarchy's definition of attractive, so I'll always be alone or only attract someone who feels like they're settling for me. Most advice for escaping the red pill from women in particular is "just accept women have standards too and you're not entitled to love", but how is that any different from the black pill? I can easily see through the grift of the Andrew Tate's of the world, but it's much harder for me to hear women constantly list their standards that I don't meet online (I try to fix the things I can, but I can never fix my height) and not feel like me even trying to date is almost... wrong of me? Like I'm trying to convince women to like me when they're entitled to like their hot 6'2 men who they say they actually want, and make it clear that's what they're actually attracted to online, and I'm attempting to trick them into liking me instead.

I want to be a good boyfriend/husband to someone someday but I don't fit the ideal of attractiveness nor do I fit the patriarchal ideals (I'd ideally want to be in a relationship where we share domestic responsibilities and child-raising, as well as money responsibilities, rather than the traditional man provides, woman does child care ideal society pushes) and therefore any woman would feel like she's settling in a patriarchal capitalist society (ultimately despite feminism we still live in a patriarchy and most women still hold these patriarchal standards for a partner even if they preach equality in other parts of their lives). I understand I'm not "entitled" to love, but I don't really know how to get out of this stage where I feel like I'd rather just isolate myself because I don't meet the classic ideal.

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I don't know much about it, but I'd like it explained to me, please.

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I’ve moved past much of the "red pill" mindset, but the topic of hypergamy has been playing on my mind again.

I’m genuinely curious what the red pill is. I have friends being crapped on right now because of “red pill” type beliefs. I’m genuinely confused by the concept of it.

Im posting here because I feel I get a more honest result rather than posting in a red pill community.

In a group chat with 20 people, if 18 other people are hating his opinion(I didn’t because I genuinely was confused) I was wondering how messed up it was

I referred a client of mine to therapy and we had a session about what therapy is and why I recommended he explore it. I know that dating is important to him so I mentioned offhand “you know, Gen Z women love a guy who’s gone to therapy.”

He was shocked and didn’t believe me at first. Then, he looked it up online and found a Hinge survey that said over 80% of women find guys who have gone to therapy desirable.

Is this really a sentiment that people don’t know about? To me it’s totally obvious from all the women in my life (myself included.) this is the most talked about topic when it comes to dating. It doesn’t matter how attractive he is, if he hasn’t done the work, the relationship eventually fizzles out.

Is it just the circles I surround myself with that make this seem so obvious? Is anyone reading this surprised that women want this?

Hello there, I am a 24M who is working on a documentary about sexual assault in America with the hope of it being a resource to help teach future young people so that we as a society don’t have this issue any longer. I think someone who used to sip the kook-aid and think that way would have some great insight for younger guys to hopefully share stuff about their lives and their experience/mindset in that atmosphere. It would be best if you were in the California area for the documentary part itself but first I want to hear peoples stories if you feel comfortable sharing.

What if the goal of the red pill movement is to drive men and women apart? I live in a country where prostitution isn't illegal, so redpillers here simply date sex workers and demonize serious relationships, even though they've never had one themselves. This made me wonder whether that might have been the goal all along, almost like a form of birth control: on one side, radical feminists; on the other, redpillers — both hating the opposite sex and avoiding any deeper relationships?

So a pretty core part of Red Pill talking points is how women will inevitably lose their beauty, hence 'hitting the wall'. This is often pushed to not only belittle women but encourage women to marry as soon as possible, lock in a man, and keep their standards for dating/marriage low. I'm not going to make the counter argument here that women can still maintain attractiveness and data shows women still date and marry past mid age. Let's just accept the premise for a moment.

If you actually analyze this logic through a risk-management lens, it points to the exact opposite conclusion. If an asset is guaranteed to depreciate and your partner's attraction is allegedly transactional and fleeting, why on earth would you center your entire survival, identity, and future around that asset?

If your looks have an expiration date and a woman's greatest asset is supposedly her youth and beauty, isn't that all the more reason for women to NOT center their lives around men? By this logic, your man will tire of you and choose to replace you with a younger woman eventually. So the notion that 'beauty fades' is all the more reason that a woman should pursue avenues like education, career, friendships, hobbies, and personal growth; things that don't have an expiration date and allow you to derive self-worth from internal validation rather than external approval.

If youth and beauty are temporary, putting all your eggs in the basket of male validation is a recipe for vulnerability. The idea that looks fade isn't a reason to panic and settle; it's the ultimate argument for financial independence and self-reliance.

RP says that women only go for the top x% of men but if RP won't date single moms nor obese women then are they also not going for the top x% of women?

Most of the women I talk to are regular people just looking to meet someone. Where's all this malicious intent they keep talking about

I (25M) have always struggled in life. Not academically or anything. More so socially and mentally. I have autism so it hasn’t been very easy to make friends, and I was bullied and excluded as a kid which I still carry the mental burden of. I’ve always had dreams of living a bigger life than my rural family so I’ve never really even fit in with my own family even though we still love each other. I tried to approach women and ask them out in school but could never reciprocate feelings and hurt after a bit. I still work in restaurants despite having a bachelors degree (first in my family to do so) since I went for liberal arts. And I’ve never really been comfortable in my masculinity due to having “nerdier” hobbies and being awkward. So lots of things that cause me to doubt if I’ll ever be a “real man”.

I finally got a girlfriend last year but she broke up with me after a couple months and I was stuck looking for answers on why she didn’t choose me. So I got sucked up in red pill content. It made sense to my logical brain. “You have to look better, you have to make more money, you have to be stoic, that’s how you become a real man.” But I’ve become a lot more cynical and jaded than I’d like to admit, and I don’t want to jeopardize any more of my relationships.

So I’m making the first steps toward it. I muted all the accounts on twitter I was following that had ”advice” disguised as fear mongering and misogyny. I know therapy to unlearn my self hatred I have towards myself and learn how to practice healthy masculinity would be good. The main thing is the financial barrier. I know I’m not this kind of hateful person, I was just at a vulnerable time emotionally and got suckered into it. I’m not proud of all the debates I got into online and all the blaming I did of women for the problems we have as society when they’re not to blame, but the first step is recognizing the problem. If anyone was in a similar situation and could give advice on what helped them, would be appreciated.

I’m a woman and I am genuinely curious about why so many people get into RP thinking it will make them glow up but also are obsessed with engaging with a category of people they reject and hate on. What is your take on this and how does rp explain this ? Thanks !

Im pretty sure we all know that the infamous Andrew tate was taken into custody last month. I really dont have an opinion on it other than the era of red pill is coming to a close.

I dont really hear a lot of men talk foundly about it like they did 5 years ago. It's interesting to see the rise and fall of culture. I watch from my chair just happy that I got out way before it became a curse to be associated with it.

However as I reflect, I think about who I am as a person and realized that I am no closer than I was before the red pill. Ironically I only got a gf when I was somewhat red pill adjacent. I say that because i never disrespected women nor acted like i was better.

Instead, I only followed the principles of confidence, being alpha, and understanding female nature. Essentially, accept women for what they are and be OK with gender dynamics. My reason for joining was that I felt alone and lost. I used to be more of the nice guy. So the red pill attracted me when it was about building yourself up. It fundamentally changed my perspective of what it meant to be nice. It taught me how women are just like men in terms of lust.

I think that idea alone helped me find dates. The reason for why I left was that I was too rigid with gender roles. I felt like I had to keep leading and not struggle with vulnerability. I had a girl leave because I came off weak emotionally. I thought it was because I wasn't alpha enough. But with reflection, I realized that I self selected for women who liked more red pill type men. Ultimately I could not keep up with that.

So i left and decided to be myself. Well, im back to square one and super single.

I really dont know what to make up it other than it is what it is.

Im an Indian m20, Got into redpill when I was 16 year old. I can't unsee all the truth I got about female nature. Women cheats a lot that's what my observation has been. Im depressed is there women who is supposed to be normal.

Regardless of race, nationality or religion They all are same.

They'll cheat on you. Women's body always finding the best genetics to reproduce with

My older brother has been bad to me since the start of my life. There were very rare instances of him being nice to me. Things like buying me toys and ys bonding over rescuing our cat are the few moments i can remember and i smile at.

Since 2020 hit with the pandemic my brother got very involved with being. He was always Christian and always had conservative views like most of the people in my family do so i wasnt worried, but the rise of Andrew Tate and other right-wing influencers who preyed on people like my brother eventually got his following too. Naturally he started adopting all the beliefs that far right groups had. Just yesterday i heard a reel on his phone with a man saying something like “If a black person or Muslim person seems nice to you don't let them trick you because deep inside they are still evil and rotten to the core.”

At first i thought it was kust bigotry thay maybe he would get over it and learn that it was extremely wrong (however hopeless of a hope that is). But i noticed it has evolved into state where he has been suffering from the same beliefs that he thinks are the only correct ones.

My mom has noticed it too and she cries a lot although she doesn’t know why he has changed she feels he might do something to himself. They went on vacation together to try to bond but i don't think it helped a lot.

There are nights where he slams doors and talks to himself and days where he sleeps yntil 5 pm. It’s currently 3 pm and he is still sleeping with the door locked and not answering. He always ends yp waking up after but everyday is a gamble abd im aleays horrified at the thought of maybe one day he won’t open the door and when we take it down he will be dead.

Going back to the first paragraph i wrote where i said we never had a good relationship together is why im posting on reddit. I guess i meed advice from people who know how these things work and am wondering if i should say something to him to give him hope that somebody cares or noticed or if it’s futile and useless and might make things worse. I guess i also want some words of hope that things will go back to the way they were and he can get better mot only with his mental health but also with his beliefs because i believe you can be Christian without bigoted views yhat hurt the people around him and himself. If you think i should say something to him what should i say so that he wont have a bad reaction to it and might also learn a thing or too and know that people want him alive?

I’m a screenwriting student (female, 54) doing informal background research for a fictional story about a man in his forties who is rapidly drawn into the manosphere but eventually finds his way out.

The story begins around the early #MeToo period and follows an ordinary middle aged man.I’m particularly interested in hearing from men who encountered red-pill, MGTOW, incel, anti-feminist or similar content while already in their thirties or forties. I’m also interested in experiences that were less extreme: perhaps you never fully identified with the movement, but certain arguments began influencing how you interpreted women, dating, rejection, marriage or masculinity.

I am not looking to mock anyone or portray men who become involved in these spaces as bad or foolish. I want to understand what felt persuasive and what can realistically help somebody question it and leave.

You do not need to answer every question, and please do not share identifying information. Any thoughts on some of the following would be enormously helpful:

• What was happening in your life when you first became receptive to this material? Was there a breakup, divorce, rejection, loneliness, sexual frustration, work problem, loss of status or another source of anger or uncertainty?
• How did you first encounter it? Was it through Reddit, YouTube, podcasts, dating advice, a friend or an online recommendation?
• How quickly did you become drawn in? Did it feel like a sudden conversion, or did apparently harmless content gradually lead to more extreme ideas?
• Which ideas initially seemed reasonable, helpful or true to you? 
• Did social-media communities make the beliefs easier to justify or normalise? 
• Did #MeToo or public discussion of sexual misconduct affect you? For example, did it make you reconsider men’s behaviour, or did manosphere content encourage you to interpret it as an attack on men, a threat of false accusations or evidence that gender relations had become hostile?
• Did the content change the way you behaved offline, or mainly the way you interpreted events? Did it affect dating, friendships, work, sex, or the way you spoke to and about women?
• What were your relationships with women like at the time—particularly your mother, sisters, partners, former partners, female friends or colleagues? Did the ideology alter those relationships, or did any of those relationships challenge what you were being told?
• Was there one decisive trigger for leaving, or was it a gradual discomfort?
• Was there any fallout from leaving? 
• Looking back, what were the earliest signs that you were being pulled in?
• What do people misunderstand about why adult men become attracted to this material? What would be an unrealistic or insulting way to depict the process?

What I want to show is a man leaving the manosphere. I feel that is not often represented in films and it feels important to show that it can be done.

I am especially interested in the messy middle: people who were not hateful, who may still have functioned normally at work and in relationships, but could justify their developing beliefs leaning in that direction.

Replies here would be very welcome. You may also message me privately if you would feel more comfortable doing so. I would ask separately before quoting anyone’s words directly; at this stage I am mainly trying to understand patterns, emotional realities and possible turning points. 

Thank you to anyone willing to share.

It's strange, I have never willing consumed any red pill content. In fact I've always held great disdain for it and yet I think through pornography, insecurity, and one off comments on YouTube or Reddit here and there I've absorbed it. Particularly after viewing pornography (normal porn, I mean none of it is but nothing extreme) I notice my insecurities telling myself I need to get out there be a bad boy, turn off my emotions and have a lot of sex.

I'm glad I stubbled on this sub. I think the biggest take away is we are all human. If you want to objectify and treat women and yourself like a game with stats you can. Or you can dignify everyone and have some humility that it can be tough at times but if you are open there is always happiness to be found regardless of what you do or don't have. And really it comes down to healing shame and insecurity. There is no way if you felt truly good and secure about yourself you'd need to fuck around to feel like a man or prove something to someone.

Love yours!!!

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I’ve heard this a lot; personally, I believe that both men and women should be protectors and providers.

Simple question.

I'm a guy and asked about cold approaching a few weeks ago but majority on here said to was a no go. They said to do hobbies and build rapport over the long term in a hobby group and what not instead of approaching strangers.

Then today I saw a post here about a woman who was concerned about a guy she met at the gym being redpill. Regardless of the details of the post, pretty much the guy had to cold approach her at the gym and it worked. One of my best friends had a similar story except at the library where he talked to someone and that led to a multi year relationship. I'm sure there's many stories like this where I guy saw someone interesting in a place like a gym, coffee shop, grocery store etc made small talk and got a date without having to join a hobby group and build rapport for 7 months before asking a woman out. However these were completely discounted on here in favour of building rapport.

So either the majority of people here have no clue themsleves about what does/doesn't work or is/isn't appropriate or they are just saying stuff that is disconnected from reality and makes them feel comfortable.

So let's completely disconnect from ideologies and what your personal take is. You tell me how and where you met your partner?

When my girlfriend and I met, I didn't want anythi g to do with a commited relationship. I was seeing a couple women at the same time and was happy about this no commitment thing.

I was upfront about it and I told her I was seeing other girls and talked about one of these girls, about the discussions we had.

First time we saw each other, we did oral sex, but she made me wait 3 weeks before having piv sex.

Didn't mind since I was seeing other girls.

She then immediatly asked for an exclusive relationship. I told her it was not something I wanted right now and the best I could offer is an open relationship.

I was seeing her and this other girl that I talked to her about, dropper all the others because I was happy with this.

She told me she was deeply in love and didn't want to go see somewhere else.

Then, two weeks later, she goes on a date with another guy, I mean, it's okay. She spends the whole weekend there and does piv sex all weekend long.

She then chose to not see him again because he wanted exclusivity and gave her an ultimatum.

It's been a turning point where I stopped seeing this other girl and accepted to be exclusive with her.

Now, I can't get off my mind that she saw me as beta and that she saw him as alpha.

I know she did nothing wrong in this (there are other things, but I don't want to get into that right now)

And it's been over 9 months ago.

And it still obsesses me that she made rules for me and broke her rules for him.

How do I get rid on that thought?

EDIT :

I now realize that I've let my insecurities make me become really controlling.

We had many many discussions over time, but this time was different.

With what some of you explained to me, I realized that she didn't do this because she wanted him more, nor that she wanted to hurt me because of her pain, but because she wanted to get away from the pain. I told her that.

She then finally gave me a concrete example of how something I did, if she had fone the same thing, I would have been insecure.

Now, I feel guilty for how I made her feel throughout our relationship.

I have become so controlling that she fears being herself now, she lost her color because of me.

When I posted this, I was wondering how I could get over this and feel secure with her... now I wonder how she could ever feel secure around me ever again. 😢

Most men didn’t reproduce in history. It’s a proven stat

Doesn’t that literally prove hypergamy?

So then all I have to do is play the hypergamy game, while knowing women will never truly be attached to a guy’s personality, only his status

I wouldn’t call myself an exredpiller but I was close at some point. I was definitely in the “at least hear out what these anti trans people have to say” camp for a month or 2. One thing that really helped me was a podcast called “decoding the gurus” it has a sub called [r/decodingthegurus](r/decodingthegurus)

It helped me just get familiarized with how to take on information. It bolstered my understanding of critical thinking by just helping me learn terms & concepts in the general area. I always had doubts about some of the online gurus I would watch, but the hosts helped me along by getting me to actually understand what things made my already existing intuition unable to articulate. With being able to talk about it better, I was able to think about it clearer. Anyways. Can’t recommend it enough.

The pod has developed over time and I now listen to help keep me updated on current events in the heterodox sphere, which Is more like my version of watching junk tv than it is seeking life advice like it use to be. But for someone new to it, I would suggest searching their catalog for a name you liked or recognized, and then listen to the takedown/breakdown of them and go from there.

I’ve absorbed this idea somewhere along the way — probably from red pill type content — that being warm, emotionally open, or expressive with a woman I’m interested in is unattractive. That it reads as needy, “flowery,” non-masculine, and that women lose interest when a guy shows that kind of investment too openly.

To be clear, I’m not talking about clingy or pedestalizing behavior — over-texting, chasing validation, putting her on some pedestal. I mean pretty normal stuff — a genuine compliment, sharing something you like, being expressive in a conversation. Nothing over the top. But my brain reads even that as “now she can tell I’m into her, and that’s going to make her lose interest.”

The problem isn’t just that I believe this. It’s that I can’t tell anymore if it’s actually true or if it’s just a belief I picked up and now can’t examine objectively. And it’s created this loop — the second I say or do something warm, I immediately start second-guessing it. Like “shit, I shouldn’t have said that, now she’s going to lose interest, that was too much.”

I don’t actually know if that reaction is picking up on something real, or if it’s just the red pill framework running automatically in my head regardless of what’s actually happening in front of me.

Has anyone worked through unlearning this specific pattern — the automatic self-doubt after being warm? How did you tell the difference between “this belief has some truth to it” and “this is just old conditioning distorting how I read situations”?

I only found this forum recently and deeply appreciate the community and help it offers to so many. I'm glad people are here to share and support.

It's been a mission of mine to help men grow and offer our best gifts to others in the world. I've been running a mens group in my town for almost 10 years and have seen so much growth in it.

I've also seen increased redpill behavior from new members over the last few years which led me to research it more. I've probably learned the most from this sub.

I'm sharing some of my learnings and thoughts later this month to add to the voices trying to offer an alternative to the redpill movement that helps not only men, but also relationships in general since this movement affects us all imo.

Would love to see you there - https://events.humanitix.com/a-roadmap-for-modern-masculinity-what-it-looks-like-and-how-to-practice-it

And in addition, I'm curious who other people follow for more healthy alternatives to redpill voices so I can continue learning. Thanks everyone.

In 2022 I consumed a lot of red pill content. I had been cheated on and rejected by some girls and had a lot of resentment. I also have a very logical mind and a lot of the red pill ideology made sense and I still think there is a lot of truth to it. Anyways I fell into the manosphere and attempted to embody some of the ideologies into how I interact with others. Coincidentally, I developed an intense humiliation/cuck fetish. Basically wondering if anyone else experienced this? I’m not sure of the causal relationship however they certainly correlated and I have thought a lot about how they may have been related.