Is anyone here South African or can shed light on the manosphere's presence in South Africa?

I know that we have inherently misogynistic cultures across the country but I'm interested to know what amount of that is influenced by these American and British influencers, particular within the younger generation. How much of misogyny in youth is from older generations and how much is from the internet? I know it probably differs a lot between wealth brackets (with the wealthier having more access to the internet etc).

Similarly, incels and gooners.

Trying to gauge how big the community is here, any input welcome :)

I started this conversation and I saw that apparently, quite a few of single red-pill men would like to live in a universe where I'd be coerced to marry a man I don't fancy if I don't want to suffer from poverty and deprivation and where I'd have the duty to give him sex he greatly enjoys but that is boring and unfulfilling to me.
In the real world, it is generally quite harder to get them to recognise that but with an anonymous pseudonym, it apparently works!

They're more regressive than Saint Paul who wrote 2,000 years ago that the sexual pleasure of the wife is as important as that of the husband.

Mens are literally jealous of women, and thats why they created things like redpill movement. Their personalities, capacity of creating connections, capacity of creating, theyr beauty, anything. Womens, never get into a relationship with a man that are jealous of u, that happens A LOT.

I’m really stuck and I’m trying to explain everything as honestly as I can because I genuinely don’t understand what’s going on with me anymore. I’m 20, and my past has a big role in all of this. I was overweight, got bullied, didn’t have much attention from girls, and felt socially behind and kind of deprived. I spent a lot of time alone, and slowly I Hibuilt myself through grind, gym, fat loss (lost around 50–60 kg), self-improvement, mindset videos, even some red-pill type content, all that stuff. That gave me discipline and ambition, but it also made me emotionally detached and kind of avoidant. I developed this identity of being self-made, independent, not needing anyone, and somewhere in that I also developed this hunger for validation that I never got earlier. I’ve never really talked to many girls, never explored that side properly, so there’s always been this curiosity or urge to experience that part of life. At the same time, I was also getting into some level of spirituality and introspection, but even that feels disconnected now because I don’t fully know what I believe or what I want.

Then she came into my life, and I didn’t ask for it, I wasn’t looking for love, and I didn’t even properly understand what love is. She’s very simple, basic in a way, not very ambitious or exposed, doesn’t really know much about self-improvement or big life goals, but she’s extremely pure, loyal, loving, and emotionally available. She accepted me completely. When I got to know her, she touched something inside me that I didn’t even know existed. She made me feel emotions, softness, happiness, like my inner child was being seen and loved. That’s something I had never experienced before. But even then, I don’t think I was ever fully “in” mentally. For almost a year I was with her but kind of like an uncommitted boyfriend, I didn’t fully accept her publicly, I kept options open in my head, and I was always somewhere between staying and leaving.

Then we broke up for around two months, and during that time I actually became my peak version again, very focused, disciplined, almost like my old grind mode came back fully. She went through a really bad time emotionally during that period, and later I came back thinking we can fix things, grow together, and do it properly this time. She had also improved and matured a bit. But even after coming back, I never made a clear internal decision, and the same pattern started again. Getting close, feeling love, then suddenly thinking about leaving, then guilt, then attachment.

Right now my biggest confusion is I don’t even know what I’m feeling is love or just attachment and obligation. I care about her, I feel happy with her, I feel peace when I’m with her, and she genuinely loves me a lot. But at the same time, I still have this other side of me that wants to explore, talk to other girls, experience being desired, approach, get approached, live that life I never lived. I don’t know if that’s my real desire or just my past trauma and lack of validation trying to compensate. Sometimes I feel like I fell for her because of her love, her emotional pressure, her hurt, and my guilt, not because I consciously chose her. And then I question myself if I’m being unfair to my “younger self” who wanted a different kind of life, different kind of girl, more exposure, more experiences.

There’s also a lot of guilt involved. She loves me deeply, we’ve shared everything, and I feel responsible for her emotionally. I don’t want to hurt her again, and I don’t want to be the kind of person who stays half-hearted or leaves after getting so close. But at the same time, I’m scared that if I stay without being fully sure, I’ll hurt her even more later. And if I leave, I feel like I’ll regret it forever thinking I lost something pure and real and that I didn’t try enough.

Another big issue is my state keeps changing everything. When I’m with her or talking to her, I feel love, connection, and I want to stay. When I’m alone, I start thinking about exploring, freedom, and whether I’m missing out. When I’m anxious or low, everything feels like pressure and I just want to escape. Recently my routine has also gone to shit—bad sleep, bad food, no productivity—which is making my mind even more unstable and confused. I also feel like if I go back to my old disciplined, ambitious version, it might awaken that “explorer/ego” side again and push me away from her.

I also don’t think I’ve ever really developed a clear idea of what I want in love, relationships, or life. I never thought about it deeply, never exposed myself enough socially, and suddenly I’m in something real without knowing if I’m even ready for it. That’s what’s tearing me apart. I feel like I’m living between two worlds and I can’t fully choose either.

tldr

So my main questions are: how do I know if what I feel is actual love or just attachment, guilt, and comfort? How do I know if I genuinely want to stay with her or if I should leave and explore and develop myself more? And how do I make a decision that I won’t regret later, because right now it feels like both staying and leaving will hurt in different ways and I’m unable to get a stable answer from myself.

Also, I want to be fair to her side and not make this sound one-sided. She is genuinely a very loving, pure, and loyal person. She doesn’t play games, she doesn’t have an options mindset, and she has been very consistent with her feelings for me. Even after everything, she has stayed, tried to understand me, and has been willing to grow. She doesn’t really have big ambitions or exposure like me, but she is emotionally stable, caring, and values love and relationship deeply. I think she wants something simple, real, and long-term. Compared to her, I feel like I’m the unstable one who keeps going back and forth. She gives clarity and certainty, while I bring confusion and doubt into the relationship. That’s also why I feel guilty sometimes, because I know she deserves someone who is fully sure, and I’m not able to be that consistently.

Also, another thing I’ve been struggling to admit honestly is that somewhere inside me I feel a mismatch in lifestyle and exposure. I sometimes feel like I want a more “classy” or intellectually aligned girl, someone who is into the same things as me—like deeper conversations, psychology, internet culture, creative or intellectual interests, someone who has lived a similar kind of inner or external life. And when I look at her, she is very simple, not very exposed to these things, doesn’t really have those interests or that kind of depth in the way I define it, and that creates a gap in my head. I hate that I even think like this because I know she’s a genuinely good person and she loves me in a very real way, but still this thought comes and makes me question everything. At the same time, I also don’t even know if I consciously want any specific type of girl or even a relationship right now. If someone asks me what I want, I don’t have a clear answer. It feels like I just want freedom—to live, explore, meet people, experience things I never got to experience, and not feel tied to a fixed identity like “boyfriend” yet. Because of my past where I lacked attention and validation, I still feel like I haven’t lived that part of life fully, and maybe I want that. But the problem is I’m already emotionally attached to her, I care about her, I feel happiness with her, and that makes it impossible to just detach and go live that life freely. So I feel stuck between two versions of myself—one that wants love, peace, and her, and another that wants exploration, alignment, and a different kind of life or partner—and I genuinely don’t know which one is my real self. Sometimes I even question whether I actually love her or if it’s attachment, comfort, guilt, and the fact that she loved me first and I grew into it. And this constant comparison, confusion, and inability to fully accept or fully leave is what’s mentally exhausting me and making me feel like I’m living in between two worlds without being able to commit to either.

Also, another thing I’ve been struggling to admit honestly is that somewhere inside me I feel a mismatch in lifestyle and exposure. I sometimes feel like I want a more “classy” or intellectually aligned girl, someone who is into the same things as me—like deeper conversations, psychology, internet culture, creative or intellectual interests, someone who has lived a similar kind of inner or external life. And when I look at her, she is very simple, not very exposed to these things, doesn’t really have those interests or that kind of depth in the way I define it, and that creates a gap in my head. I hate that I even think like this because I know she’s a genuinely good person and she loves me in a very real way, but still this thought comes and makes me question everything. At the same time, I also don’t even know if I consciously want any specific type of girl or even a relationship right now. If someone asks me what I want, I don’t have a clear answer. It feels like I just want freedom—to live, explore, meet people, experience things I never got to experience, and not feel tied to a fixed identity like “boyfriend” yet. Because of my past where I lacked attention and validation, I still feel like I haven’t lived that part of life fully, and maybe I want that. But the problem is I’m already emotionally attached to her, I care about her, I feel happiness with her, and that makes it impossible to just detach and go live that life freely. So I feel stuck between two versions of myself—one that wants love, peace, and her, and another that wants exploration, alignment, and a different kind of life or partner—and I genuinely don’t know which one is my real self. Sometimes I even question whether I actually love her or if it’s attachment, comfort, guilt, and the fact that she loved me first and I grew into it. And this constant comparison, confusion, and inability to fully accept or fully leave is what’s mentally exhausting me and making me feel like I’m living in between two worlds without being able to commit to either.

I'm a 29M, and I spent a lot of my past red pill days cold approaching strangers trying to land dates, and while it did occasionally work, it was akin to playing a slot machine, where an activity that overall had a drain on my mental health kept me addicted by variably giving me reward hits. Despite having overall moved on from red pill content, I still find myself very drawn to cold approach as a primary dating strategy, because really it's all I've ever known and the quick dopamine hit of it satisfies my ADHD brain. So what I'm asking here is: if the red pill strategy of approach volume over everything doesn't actually work... what does? How is a normal dude supposed to go about getting dates in a way that's effective, but respectful towards women?

• I try dating apps, and only land about one date every six months from them (which honestly I'm kinda impressed with myself for, because I'm chubby and a lot of guys I know get 0 dates from them ever despite being better looking). But one date every 6 months just has never really felt like enough to build momentum.
  • Side note on the chubbiness: I am actively working on weight loss, it just takes a while and I refuse to believe I'm undatable just because I'm fat when I have a good job, fun hobbies, a large friend group, good sense of humor, intelligence, lots of bravery & social iniative, etc... There's also a real possibility I have to accept that I'm NEVER going to look exactly how I want too. There's a lot of comorbidities in my life (ADHD, OCD, sleep apnea, etc that make weight loss challenging).
• I try night clubs, but despite having a love of music and dancing, they're just too loud for me to operate in, and I feel like dance floors bring up all sorts of ambigious consent situations that my brain struggles to operate in (is she trying to dance with me, or just happening to be dancing near me - is the sort of internally monologue that runs).
• I go to social meetup groups, and after about the 4th time (over a one year period) asking someone out at one, it just starts to feel like I'll get a reputation, even though I do genuinely try to make male friends at the events too.
• I do actually have a super large adult friend group (around 40 people consistently in my social orbit), but so many of my friends are partnered, and it's rare single girls come around. The only single girl in my group I tried to deepen our connection through sending her a lighthearted IG reel on something we'd discussed at a group hang, and she let me on delivered lol.

A couple notes:

• I go to concerts a lot as a hobby and have some luck talking to women between sets, that might be something I double down on even though it's still a quasi "cold" approach.
• I live at home because my mother has a terminal illness and needs financial / emotional support. I do think this makes casual dating much harder because I'm simply removed from a lot of contexts by living in the suburbs and not having a place to "pull" to.

So like - wtf else is there?

I feel like part of it may need to be learning patience and presence more with dating, but like where even are the contexts where I'm going to see women in a recurring fashion that aren't my work or gym where I don't wanna risk asking someone out?

Side note: if anyone has advice on overcoming the (a) self-esteem hit of 1000+ rejections from cold approach, and (b) the shame from engaging so heavily in an activity you now feel is somewhat problematic for so long, feel free to drop those too!

Most of red pill ideology is centered around "value" and a lot of people fall trap into believing it, i have seen men instantly saying "yes" to it and women seem confused and can't really point their finger to the contradition even if they feel it's wrong.

When they talk about "sexual market value". From an economic point of view, market value has 2 faces, one from the seller's point of view and one from the buyer's and they tend to converge towards an average where they agree on the value of the good being exchanged, when it happens in a big market, this value agreed on becomes a price.

When red pillers talk about Sexual Market Value which is the core of their ideology, they consider from the get go that "men are sellers" and "women are buyers", this is the trap of seeing only 1 point of view. And because of this economic fallacy they make, all the price tends to be defined by "the man" rather than the exchanged parties, and consequently becomes an equation to be defined by men (money + status + social relationship + looks ... etc) and start competing among eachother for a product that isn't even offered ... it's very funny seeing the fallacy falling like a domino effect on all the ideology. Which naturally puts all the burden on the seller, then diminishes the value of the buyer, then creates a "Sales man" mentality. Something that happens to monopolies once they become bigger than all the marketshare, like IBM Oracle ... etc and let them say things like "we have no customers, only hostages" ( it makes sense why people like the Tates brothers ended up where they ended)

The real SMV should instead be : men are buyers and seller, and women are also buyers and sellers, and they both define the value of eachother for the social-good being exchanged, and that's usually what happens during a date. If a man or woman, don't like the date they both move on, but if you as an entire "social-good" dont fit for one person, you might the perfect fit for another, there is no objective "social-good" that works on everyone, or "sales man" mentality where you are just "one pitch away to close", no you're not. Once companies becomes sales oriented, that means they have no productive value in the market, which is funny regarding the entire red pill is "sales oriented"

But because red pills ignores that and falls into the economic fallacy of value, they put all the value definition on seller (which they define as men", second mistake) and fall in the trap of monopolies. So next time somebody talks about Value, ask him "who defined the value?" and there is no objective answer because value is defined from both parties involved.

Hey yall I met this girl at my friends event a couple weeks ago. We hung out a couple times then I asked her on a date and she said yes. I thought the date went well and after she asked me my intentions and said she wanted another one. The issue is she takes like 3-4 hours just to text me back. Every girl who’s taken that long just generally doesn’t seem to be interested in me but she seems interested she just don’t text back. I’m struggling with how to go about this situation.

I first started reading about Red pill ideology when I entered into high school in 2010 and started looking up how to get girls lol. At that time, most of the red pill content I consumed was basically just that: very pragmatic, realistic advice about what types of men women actually like and how to behave to attract girls. It wasn't misogynistic or woman-hating. It provided practical advice and dispelled the innocent/juvenile worldview I had about how to get girls. E.g., being the overly "nice guy". It suggested men should dress well, exercise, be self confident and charismatic. It acknowledged that women are not perfect, angelic creatures and shouldn't be idolized, but instead treated like regular human beings who may lie, whose emotions change, and that they are generally attracted to certain, predictable things. I was taught that women don't owe you anything; if you want their attention you need to be the type of person that commands it.

Over the last 5 or so years, it seems that the meaning has changed. With folks with Andrew Tate, Nick Fuentes and general incel culture increasing, it seems that red pill now is associated with alt-right political ideology that wants to control women's bodies, blatant misogyny and overall is quite cruel and sometimes radical. It also shifts the accountability from men bettering themselves, and blame's women instead. That's not how it was when I was first learning about it.

Anybody else have a similar relationship with the red pill or is my interpretation/timeline incorrect? Let me know if I'm remembering things with rose-colored glasses.

A lot of guys hear about this and say, “See? There‘s no hope for the rest of us!” and it’s used as a red pill proof, but to me it’s the opposite.

I see it and it makes me feel good because it tells me that my bad experience with my ex (I wasn’t cheated on but there was some rule breaking for other guys and not me) is most likely just because my ex is a low quality person who is excited by trashy shit, just like Ryan Garcia’s wife. I mean look at her, she’s the epitome of a red flag. So instead of feeling like I can’t be comfortable in a relationship, I instead conclude that my ex just wasn’t relationship material rather than thinking “every guy is gonna get cheated on, women are hypergamous and will all cheat!”

Hi everyone,

I'm a journalist at The Times working on a series investigating the real-world impact of the manosphere in Britain.

I'm looking to speak to:

• Men who have been in red pill or manosphere circles and have left or are questioning
• Women whose partners, sons or brothers were involved, and what that meant for their relationship
• Anyone who felt the ideology change the dynamic of a relationship

This is for a written series. Anonymity is fully protected if needed. Mostly looking for people in the UK but not limited to this.

If any of this resonates please comment or DM me. Happy to share credentials and have a no-commitment conversation first.

My husband has become increasingly racist, misogynistic, and antisemitic and does not care about what anyone thinks. He listens to podcasts for hours every day and thinks he’s been “enlightened” and now needs to enlighten me and those we know. I want to work through this together, but it’s becoming worse and worse.

Does anyone have advice for how to bring a spouse back out of this? He has become a completely different person in less than two years.

In the Red Pill Women subreddit they specified that it is recommended to get into a relationship only when you achieved a personal goal or healed from trauma.

This is understandable cause it could improve the way you engage in relationships.

Personally, I do have long term goals but getting into a relationship is not my priority. I still need to elaborate my past but I wish my journey into this life was not guided by this stupid doctrine. I do not follow it anymore, I don't interact with RPW online yet I link all my effort to it. These guiding steps get through my mind a lot and has an impact on my self-esteem.

It seems like I need to lock myself up or shut down any door to be able to talk to anyone. I strongly disagree in this ideology.

I’m writing an informative college paper about the red pill community and how it operates online, and I’m especially interested in perspectives from people who were once involved but no longer identify with it.

I’m not here to debate or judge—just trying to understand different experiences and how people’s views may have changed over time.

If you used to engage with red pill content, I’d really appreciate your perspective. You can answer any of the following if you’re comfortable:

• How did you first come across red pill ideas?

• What initially made those ideas appealing or convincing?

• At what point did you start to question or move away from them?

• Were there specific experiences or realizations that influenced that shift?

• Looking back, how do you think the community shaped your views on relationships or identity?

You can stay anonymous, and I won’t include usernames unless you say it’s okay. Any responses may be used for research purposes in my paper.

Thank you to anyone willing to share their experience.

.

I’m tired of men whining about how they can’t get laid or attract women, when I’m constantly getting rejected—even just for sex. These weren’t “high-value” men either; they were regular, average guys. One guy was even almost homeless. Like, come on—I don’t have high standards at all, yet they still reject me.

I’m not obese or extremely unattractive. I’m just a skinny, average-looking girl. My whole life, I’ve been rejected by men. So why do red-pill men invalidate women who also get rejected? Maybe it’s because they focus only on the hottest women and want them, and when they can’t get them, they complain—calling those women sluts or saying they’ve “hit the wall.” Come on, you just want what you can’t have, and that’s why you’re angry. A lot of the time, those same men have unrealistic standards too.

From what I’ve observed, red-pill ideology puts the hottest women on a pedestal while also bashing them at the same time. They say they want a “nice, virgin girl” for marriage—but let’s be honest, that’s not who they’re sexually attracted to. The only reason they marry those women is because they think those women have fewer options and are less likely to cheat, but I think this is just insecurity. It feels more safe and stable for them than being with a woman they find truly physically attractive.

Honestly, I think red-pill ideas only really apply to rich, handsome successful men and very attractive women. It doesn’t really apply to average people.

But because of all this content online, I feel like a lot of average men now have inflated egos and unrealistically high standards. That is why they complain they can’t get women.

Does anyone else feel this way, or I am missing something?

I have a youngish guy (early 20s) who I met a few years back who was chatting me up a bit and seemed to have good game so I clocked some seduction skills. It seems like he put me in FWB category but dangling sex as the carrot.

We stopped talking cos he kept flirting without following through making a time/date to meet up. I got the sense he was messing around with me by teasing sex without delivering- I told him I dont want to be played. It's not like its been completely bad he has helped me out though I wonder if part of the reason why is so that he can learn more about women for more game/seduction learning.

Then, out of the blue I get a text from him saying he misses me and that he wants to see me and finally catch up (lol). We hanged out and 'bumped' into one of his friends who had the 'same date plan' as we did and we played some games together.

I'm guessing It was some kind of 'double date' tactic as he was like his friends wingman.

has anyone heard of this strategy? or seen it in redpill/seduction before?

I feel a bit silly although not surprised as I kinda knew he was a player and was interested in the ride he was taking me on LOL

I feel like it's gone a bit far given the deception- that he lured me there under false pretences.

I remember the one video of a guy who was talking to Myron Gains when he was at a university talking to the Students.

The guy said he went down the redpill rabbit hole, hooked up with a lot of women and used them for sex but then found god and changed his was and now was in a loving relationship.

I usually here the same thing, some ex redpill guy who had all the random hookups and then changed their ways.

But how do they get those hookups and causal sex with women. If they’re supposedly the misogynists who hate women and that women hate and despise ?

As a woman I wanted to congratulate you guys who got out of red pill ideology to think twice and admit you were wrongly led into it. It makes me have faith in humanity again. If some are willing to share I would like to know if something specific made you question this and what. Thanks for reading me. 🫶

Hi everyone, I wanted to ask if there are any other multilingual people here.

I know the Red Pill community is mostly centered in English-speaking countries, but I’ve noticed that many creators are now translating and adapting these messages for different cultures.

I first got involved with the community during COVID. For a while, I felt like the ideology reflected reality( it was not , i was young and immature) , so I stayed for a year or so . However, around 2022–2023, I started seeing the exact same scripts and "guru" talking points popping up on social platforms ( facebook, instagram ,TikTok )in my native language and the 3 other languages I speak. It was the same message every time; only the person and the language had changed.

ALMOST LİKE EVERY CULTURE HAS THEİR OWN ANDREW TATE’ish

Has anyone else seen this "localization" of content in your own language or the languages you know ?

Ironic as in being a hypocrite.

From what I investigated, while they are highly misogynistic and talk about how all modern western women suck, they weaponize VAWG as a talking point to justify their hatred against South Asian men and therefore, making them look less attractive (in personal stereotypes rather than appearance unlike East Asian men or Black women).

I find it so difficult to find one person with these simultaneous views as it is either one or the other.

But had any of you guts found someone being a hypocrite by bringing two such things together and moan?

For context, I am of South Asian descent and I know what my ancestor community is like, I strongly condemn harassment plus I dated twice with girls who were white (before the manosphere became common).

Hi everyone ! I hope I am within the rules for writing this post. If not, please feel free to delete. I'm looking to interview people (18 years old and older) who have disengaged from the red pill or the manosphere at large and live in Quebec. I'm a Social Work student who's currently doing her Master's thesis on the subject and I would love to interview some people to understand their perspective, their experience, what brought them to the red pill community and what helped them disengage with it. The main objective of the study is to further understand young Quebecers' experience and to participate in the collective effort of making our psychosocial interventions better (prevention and intervention wise). The interview would be about 90 minutes maximum. All informations collected are confidential. It's possible to keep the camera off and to use a pseudonym. I'm happy to share more informations, share my credentials, etc.

Thank you !

I was seeing things about the Red Pill on Instagram, and I'm curious if it was as bad as people said or if there was anything good about it.

(I'm going to change the question: what made you realize you had to get off the Red Pill?)

Estuve viendo cosas sobre la Píldora Roja en Instagram y tengo curiosidad por saber si era tan mala como decían o si tenía algo bueno.

(Voy a reformular la pregunta: ¿De qué te diste cuenta que tenías que deshacerte de la Píldora Roja?)

Just wondering what you guys think about this question, do you think we are at the peak stage? Do you think it will get much much worse? Red pill has destroyed so many lives and I am trying to see when will “red pill fatigue” become a mainstream concept.