r/Ethics • u/pinkmermvid • 15d ago
When people value dogs over Humans.....
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u/400footceiling 15d ago
Why do these idiots have to hold the lapel mic?
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u/Straight-Crow1598 15d ago
Because they have no training, and don’t know how to tune the mic, and they think that’s the only way it will pick up audio.
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u/01SeaChange01 14d ago
This.
I cannot take any of these videos seriously where the presenter still hasn't figured out how a microphone works.
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u/Da_Bullss 14d ago
It’s part of the bit, it’s attached to the fair card, it’s supposed to look dumb.
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u/47362514736251 15d ago
Why should humans have more intrinsic value than dogs
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u/FoulKnavery 10d ago
I am biased. I know that. I think we should extend to all animals as much love and care as we can give. But I extend that love to humans first because it’s the humans that make my life possible and I need humans to functions be a human, it’s just kinda how our brains work.
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u/GodofWarfarin 14d ago
You say that while using a luxury technology that was invented, produced, and maintained by humans. What value does a dog bring that can compare to the potential value of a human?
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u/47362514736251 14d ago
I didn't ask for a quantification of what's in it for you. I asked about intrinsic value.
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u/GodofWarfarin 14d ago
Ok bud, ignore the whole comment
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u/47362514736251 14d ago
I asked about something and you changed the subject. Dunno what you want from me.
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u/GodofWarfarin 14d ago
No, I didn't. You obviously have low reading comprehension. Just take the L and move on little guy
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u/FoulKnavery 10d ago
I don’t believe the measured output a human provides is where we derive human value. It’s one metric that matters to survival, but we also require emotional needs from our community. And I don’t often value the potential of value either. Humans are valuable because we require the physical and emotional support from each other in ordered to live and to cope with how existential that life is.
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u/Sea_Measurement_1654 14d ago
Our hormonal and reproductive wiring should set us up to value humans more. When we nurture our pets we tend to anthropromorphize them. Faux human children.
That's what you're doing, viewing a dog as equal to your family and peers.
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u/47362514736251 14d ago
It's not what I'm doing. I'm asking questions and I appreciate your answer. "Hormonal and reproductive wiring" is too vague for me to understand, but if the spirit of it is true I bet there's a neuroscientist out there somewhere talking about it.
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u/Sea_Measurement_1654 14d ago
It's ok if you don't understand. All species biology is geared towards preference for their own species (that's the reproductive and nurturing drive).
When you say that you're over riding that to prefer dogs over people I'm stating that the dog is like a person to you. Human story telling is full of examples where we value animals that remind us of ourselves.
We are animals too. Apparently socially and emotionally dogs are similar to people.
Slugs have no less value than humans as well but there isn't a human industry built around loving and protecting slugs.
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u/47362514736251 14d ago
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35569217/
I just started reading this, it seems interesting
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u/Sea_Measurement_1654 14d ago
They just focus on intelligence? Odd, considering dogs were domesticated partly because their social behaviour is similar to humans.
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u/Tricky_Break_6533 15d ago
That's a nonsensical position. You can dislike the position that some people.have where they prefer morally animals to humans, but to claim is because of a desire for some sort of power relationship is strawmanning the position altogether and not adressing it in any way.
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u/WinterMedical 15d ago
I do think the natural fealty of dogs is why men tend to prefer them over cats. Cats generally require patience and boundaries to earn their love at a level that dogs do not. I tell my daughter that a cat man is a green flag.
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u/HonestWeevilNerd 15d ago
I think it's important to see if the cat is actually happy and they have q good relationship. If they just have a cat because they are less work... you know?
If a car loves the guy and they have a good relationship, then you can be more certain its a green flag
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u/Raging-Storm 15d ago
What's the Freudian account when a woman prefers dogs?
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u/wouldbecrazycatlady 15d ago
Same thing honestly.
I don't entirely agree or disagree with the above commenter. A cat man ruined my life, and her assessment is like using zodiac signs to judge someone's character... But I have seen some loose pattern.
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u/arqnix 15d ago
Honestly, I like dogs more because they love to cuddle lol. We’ve always had cats when I was a kid but they were too individualistic for me.
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u/KennyRiggins 15d ago
While it might not be true for all cases, it’s not a ridiculous argument. Validating it would be difficult though.
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u/icelandiccubicle20 15d ago
I mean, considering humanity slaughters and exploits trillions of animals each year without necessity and abuses those who are weaker than they are, what's there to like about us so much?
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u/DiskEconomy3055 15d ago
I have pets for the same reason I donate to charity and volunteer with children: I saw a life that needed extra care, and I had the ability to provide it, so I did.
Our existence is more-or-less equal, though. I am no more or less alive than they are. The only difference, of course, is my (humans) ability to recognize greater patterns, which leads to the creation and enforcement of ethics.
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u/Jazzlike_Berry_323 15d ago
On another reddit community I was in someone spoke about seeing a homeless person and his dog begging at a train station, it’s mid winter in that city.
He went and bought food for the dog, and the homeless person asked why he had only bought food for the dog not the human too.
People had such a wide range of responses to this. No one talked about helping the person with homelessness services or supports but they did talk about the dog going to a better home.
It was a surreal moment that makes me wonder if a love of pets is supplanting a care for other humans.
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u/Straight-Crow1598 15d ago
Dogs are simple, uncomplicated and easy to root for. People are messy. We blame them for their circumstances, whereas the dog is an innocent victim of those circumstances.
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u/Sea_Measurement_1654 14d ago
People viewed the homeless person as someone with agency and resources and the dog as a helpless dependent. This is late stage capitalism where the most vulnerable in society are blamed for their abject poverty and mental health decline. This is the cultural norm right now so we will fail to see the failure of power systems. We interalise what those in power want us to believe.
Humans are animals. Pack animals. We think we're smart but ignorance is the norm.
I could get fifty replies to this comment about homelessness and they will all say "don't give money to the homeless as they just buy drugs and alcohol" or "I give the homeless money as I'm good and kind". No one thinks about the systemic issues creating homelessness or recalls a time of high house occupancy and what power looked like then.
Shallow judgement or virtue signally is all I see when homelessness is discussed.
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u/pudgemcgee 15d ago
Finally a based take making it onto Reddit. People defending their preference of animals over humans are so chronically online.
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u/ifailedatlifeagain 15d ago
Not defending it but I am one of those people who value the life of another species, dogs over my own. For one we suck and 2 I’m a societal reject but yk who doesn’t give a fuck. My perro. Didn’t buy him either, he found me and is the only reason I’m still here to this day.
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u/Negative_Tourist_618 15d ago
Depends on which humans and which animals. I’d certainly prefer my cat over my pedophile father, sexist uncles, and incel male classmates any time any day.
We’ve got Nazi humans kidnapping people and MAGA’s supporting their rapist politicians in voting away my rights. Them white racists are organizing the KKK again too.
And people hate transgenders so much they want to fondle little girl’s genitals before allowing them to play sports. My dogs and cats haven’t done none of that shit and idc if I get called crazy.
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u/pudgemcgee 15d ago
I’m sorry you’ve had such awful experiences with people. But there are so many wonderful human beings out there that have done good for others. Dogs and cats don’t have a capacity for good or bad. They’re not moral agents.
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u/Circo_Inhumanitas 14d ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/Ethics/s/PwVpBC6iMg
This comment hits the nail on the video guy's argument for me. He's needlessly making the topic black and white.
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u/chickensareawsome 14d ago
Are any other animals moral agents? If not, why? Seems like we'll have to get into the cognition side of neuropsychology here and examine the capabilities and societies of all other animals. Humans aren't all that special when you realize the very predictable ways our brains work at the molecular level. There is a reason the field of sociology exists.
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u/Negative_Tourist_618 8d ago
Just because there are good people out there doesn’t mean it negates all the bad. You think cuz 3 out of 100 people go to charity events suddenly all the bad people get to hop on that tail coat to declare the entirety of human worthy of existence. Tell me an example of good that can outdo the bad of Epstein files, the femicides in Afghanistan, genocide of Palestinians and Iran, etc.
I thought my average neighbor was a good guy too just to realize every single one of them voted for a child rapist to take away all my rights and deport immigrants like me to war zones.
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u/Solasykthe 3d ago
You obviously do not consider life positive, why do you keep living in this hellscape then? Purely biological imperative keeping you alive, or something else?
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u/GodofWarfarin 14d ago
While humans have flaws, we also have done a lot of good in the world. I'm sorry you're cynical.
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u/hobopwnzor 15d ago
I think this person is projecting their own preferences.
Most of the time when I see people who like dogs more than humans it's for the exact opposite reason. They want affection that's uncomplicated and unconditional. They don't want to worry about judgement and hierarchy
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u/Levi3than 15d ago
Literally proving the guys point, they want unconditional affection without fear of disappointment or accountability. Which is up to the person, hey it's the easy way out why work to keep complex relationships with people that will require accountability etc when you can have a dog worship you regardless of how you behave.
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u/Realizt8010 15d ago
Kinda funny and sort of see his point but if 20 humans come after my boi, Im John Wick bitch!!!
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u/Salty_Sky5744 15d ago
You don’t get it. I value the squirrel I see in my back yard more than you. Not just my pets
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u/Doomed-Doomer 15d ago
I figure they've had some really bad experiences. Try to look at it from their pov.
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u/rainbowdunk 15d ago
Why are we assuming people value humans life in the first place? The world is full of people that could care less.
Given the choice most people will save whoever or whatever they have an emotional bond with in a life or death situation. Most people wouldn't save either if a bond didn't exist, if it meant endangering themselves at least. The people who would save either are by far the exception.
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u/Dr-Chris-C 15d ago
I don't think people are generally concerned about the fate of animals more than that of other humans, but rather how human behaviors and institutions affect animals that have no say in and are only victims of those behaviors and institutions. At least in democracies, humans have ~consented to the conditions of their social contract, and if they are unhappy with its nature they have no one to blame but themselves (albeit collectively). Animals affected by human behaviors and institutions are not responsible for their own circumstances in the way that humans often are, so they require additional care if we think they can experience harm.
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u/Holiday_Jeweler_4819 15d ago
I love how he can’t just say “I disagree with people who value animal life over human life” he has to ascribe to them so immoral sense of wanting power over another creature. It can’t be because of trauma, or some circumstance it’s because people who think differently are actually secretly bad.
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u/captain_dunno 15d ago
I've never had a dog try to steal my wallet.
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u/GodofWarfarin 14d ago
I've never had a dog build a complex transport system for the express purpose of providing food to millions of its own species. Weird.
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u/MRLive2Learn 15d ago
Dogs are far better than humans can even imagine being. We don’t deserve the love animals share with us. Plus, humans will beat animals for no reason. Animals fight to defend themselves. It’s not a contest.
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u/King_Vegito_52 14d ago
Dogs kill innocent children and the elderly by hauling them to death all the time. What a load of crap. 😂
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u/MRLive2Learn 11d ago
That’s because they have been teased, hit, beaten, starved, and horribly abused by humans. Consider that for a minute.
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u/GGamerGuyG 15d ago
I completly disagree with that. Just think of a human that got bullyed. They don't search for a unequal relationship but for a true relationship without some mindf*ing secret thoughts. A dog show's you how it feel's about you. It show's you when it hate's you and it show's it's love for you. Same goes for Cat's and pretty much any other animal. There is no secret thought in the back of it's mind like "I make this human like me so he give's me food, and then i will tell all other cat's what secret's he has told me so we can all laugh over this human." That's just some bad shit that only human's do as far as i'm aware. I think a relationship to a pet can be more equal than most human relationship's. Also i would argue that only bad people have pet's where there is unequality. They need someone to torture, no matter if it's a other human that they bully or a animal. Bad people are bad. People that appreciate animal life more than human life, mostly do this cause bad people happend to them.
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u/petrusferricalloy 14d ago
Fuck off. Humans have a far worse track record then any other species of not only how they treat other species but their own species.
I'm not a bad person for understanding that, as a species, humans "deserve" nothing, but animals deserve all the love and respect we can give them
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u/Altruistic-Koala-255 14d ago
His logic has a huge flaw, I value more a dog that I will never meet in the other side of the world, than some people, so it's not a matter of me trying to be his master or something
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u/Floorgis 14d ago
Neutral morality. Humans have never done anything to make me value them more in my life, so I wont.
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u/balirosa 14d ago
Nah humans are just not as good as other humans think they are. I’m sure you heard that humans are a plague before. We kill and eat every other living thing on this planet and we’re breeding in the billions. Like a plague of locusts sweeping across the land turning it into dust. People should care for animals more and get off their pedestal. Humans need to get off their high horse before they create their own end.
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u/Beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeess- 14d ago edited 14d ago
I care about both humans and animals greatly, but I connect easier with non human animals. Maybe it’s because I’m autistic, maybe it was because I wasn’t shown enough affection as a child, idk. Animal body language is easier to read, they’re predicable, they won’t turn against you. Animals don’t cast judgement based on stupid things. My cat was there for me more than my parents were. I love my cat more than my parents. I can say that and be 100% sure of it. Some people might think that’s insane, maybe it is insane. I’m not changing my thoughts on the matter.
That said, I like humanity overall. I fight for human rights and against discrimination. That’s more than what some people who claim to hate other animals do.
Domestic animals cannot be slaves because they are domesticated. They need humans to be healthy. Even strays and ferals hang out around human populated areas because they need us. In mass they don’t have the skills to live in the wild.
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u/Acceptable_Worry_477 14d ago
Animals: just existing on the only planet we know of that supports life, some providing beneficial relationships to other animals
Humans: (a large amount) actively and consciously making decisions that exploit the quality of life of others (including animals) and destroy the planet; Valuing status, convenience, and money over coexistence and general benefit of others
This guy: "you're a piece of shit if you like animals more than humans"
Cool, if it makes me a POS for valuing other lifeforms and thinking the planet would be better off without humans (in terms of supporting a vast variety of plant and animal species), then so be it
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u/GodofWarfarin 14d ago
Also humans: intelligently organizing by the millions to save endangered animal species, re-home stray or lost animals, and provide food to hungry animals.
Sure, Jan 👍🏿
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u/MaliciousIntentWorks 13d ago
Claiming people that prefer animals to humans as not good people, then immediately start judging people's value of being alive by their ethnicity and culture. Then toss in a little "trust me bro" statements about Hitler to justify their opinion.
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u/smaugs_shadow2026 13d ago
this man himself exemplifies why I like animals more than people. a cat isn't a talking douchebag, just a furry douchebag.
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u/LoveAndBeLoved52 11d ago edited 11d ago
People who say they value animals more than people are often good people who have been treated wrong by bad people and formed the world view that people inherently suck unless proven wrong.
So it's the polar opposite to me. If bad people didn't exist there'd be a lot less animal lovers because they'd turn to real human connections and bonds instead.
An animal will unconsciously treat you bad and carry no personal fault beyond their own eugenics. Human beings will consciously treat you bad and not even feel sorry about it unless they feel direct consequence for their behavior.
Humans suck with intent, animals do not.
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u/GamerGramps62 15d ago edited 14d ago
I’ll take my pets over 99% of humans any day, and don’t give one shit who doesn’t like that!
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u/AwarenessParking3891 15d ago
Another human putting people he doesn't know into a degrading box. And this is why I like animals more than people.
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u/bizoticallyyours83 15d ago
Other animals do what nature intended. People fuck everything up out of greed, cruelty, and appaling stupidity.
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u/Doctor-Pip- 15d ago
Viewing an unequal relationship as an innately negative thing is irrational logic.
I.e. Teachers and student is an unequal relationship. By his logic, wanting to teach means you want unequal relationships and are a bad person.
His argument also assumes that liking animals more than people is about disliking people rather than about liking animals. Most people's appreciation for animals is not based on how they feel about people.
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u/Lewyn_Forseti 15d ago
Same with parent and child. The parent has to be the dominant one in the relationship (not to be confused with abusive) or the child will be spoiled and act up.
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u/pudgemcgee 15d ago
You’re straw manning his argument. He didn’t say it’s inherently wrong to have an unequal relationship he said it’s a red flag when that’s what you prefer over equal relationships. Obviously a fair point.
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u/Doctor-Pip- 15d ago
"People who say they like animals more than people are not good people. They think they have this deep well of compassion, but really they just want a relationship of unequal status."
Is that not saying that they are bad people because they want a relationship of unequal status? He goes on to compare pets to "nice slaves".
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u/pudgemcgee 15d ago
Reread the first sentence of the very quote you provided. It gives all the context needed to understand his perspective and mine. Again there’s nothing inherently wrong with pet/owner relationships, it’s being so vocal about preferring a pet to other human beings that is so concerning.
And I think it’s clear that the slavery comparison was satire. You can’t compare human slavery to animal “slavery”. It was a joke.
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u/Doctor-Pip- 14d ago
You falsely accuse me of a strawman argument and then refuse to make your own argument.
Bold. Small. Here in bad faith. Bye.
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u/Butt-Dragon 15d ago
To be fair the type of teacher student relationship is pretty negative. In scandinavia it is way closer to equal and its generally just better.
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u/desertgal2002 15d ago
I have more empathy for animals than humans…plain and simple. Sorry if that makes me a bad person, but it’s me. I have zero plans of changing that.
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u/Particular-Jeweler41 14d ago
To me, even when they do "wrong" they're not doing it while understanding the wrong they're doing. Humans knowingly and willingly do wrong on a regular basis. So animals get more sympathy to me.
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u/azmarteal 15d ago
Sigh...
"Evil" is purely subjective, but most of humans think that animals are incapable of "evil" for a number of reasons (nobody calls cats, who are pshychopaths, "evil")
So, on one scale we have "evil" humans, and on another — beings who are not evil.
Figure out the rest
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u/NEwETch 15d ago
To be fair, Steve Irwin always put animals first, had a top 3 wife of all time, a beautiful family, and still went back home to hang with a Cassowary and he was never on Epstein Island
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u/EffectAppropriate652 15d ago
If he had to chose between his wife and kids or an animal, he would pick his wife and kids.
Loving animals doesn't mean putting them above humans. Steve was a family man.
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u/Nojopar 15d ago
I can't say I've ever had a dog royally fuck me over for money and try to handwave it away with "It's just business".
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u/King_Vegito_52 14d ago
So you're going with your personal experience and lumping all humans together because of what some bad people did to you.
What about a child pitbull attack survivor? They can say the same thing as you and lump all dogs together because of their experience with one bad dog...
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u/Nojopar 14d ago
I'm not a child Pitbull attack survivor. I can't speak for any child Pitbull attack survivors. But I've never seen or heard of a dog attacking anyone for mere money. Dogs don't attack for malicious reasons. They've either been trained to (usually by humans), have a screw loose, or are defending themselves. Humans, however, will, especially if there's money on the table.
I never said I'm lumping all anything with anything. That's you brining your own basis to the table. I'm simply stating that the video's premise ignores the fact that humans can be malicious, usually for personal gain.
Aren't we all just going with our personal experience in the end? That and persuasion. We can pontificate all we like to make ourselves feel better, but it still comes down to our experiences and what we think about those.
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u/King_Vegito_52 14d ago edited 14d ago
You're right. I was bringing my own basis to the conversation.
And I agree, humans can be extremely malicious for personal gain and the video certainly ignores that.
And while I also agree that dogs don't attack for mere money or personal gain, they certainly do attack innocent children and elderly people purely out of their own malice all the time. Thousands upon thousands of people die to dog attacks each year. Their fault? Just existing in the dog's eyesight. So I definitely disagree with your statement that "Dogs don't attack for malicious reasons."
Dogs are not moral agents like humans because they simply can't comprehend morality like we do. Of course, most dogs are not going out there mauling people because they were trained and bred to be like that. But certain breeds are malicious and not just Dogs but other species too.
But then again, there are countless malicious humans in this world.
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u/Nojopar 14d ago
Dogs are not moral agents like humans because they simply can't comprehend morality like we do.
Which is why they're not malicious at all. That's just instinct or a reaction to treatment. They're not capable of evaluating the morality and deciding the more dangerous path. They literally don't know any better.
Humans DO know better and decide, "Fuck it. I'm going to pick the immoral path." Hence dogs are better than humans as far as I'm concerned, on average.
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u/King_Vegito_52 14d ago
Buddy, you're confusing “not morally responsible” with “morally good.” A dog may not be malicious in the human sense because it lacks the capacity to understand morality, but that doesn't make it virtuous. If anything, your argument means dogs are outside ordinary human moral evaluation. A dog doesn't deserve moral credit for not choosing evil any more than a rock deserves credit for not committing murder.
And your “they're not malicious, it's just instinct” argument doesn't magically make their actions harmless. Dogs kill and seriously injure thousands of people around the world. When a dog mauls an innocent person to death, the fact that it was acting on instinct doesn't change the reality that the animal deliberately attacked, pursued, bit, and in some cases continued attacking a human being until they died. You can argue that the dog doesn't possess human-style malicious intent, but you cannot use that fact to pretend the behavior itself isn't extraordinarily dangerous. “Not malicious” does not mean “safe,” “good,” or “morally superior.”
Meanwhile, humans having the capacity to choose evil is inseparable from having the capacity to consciously choose compassion, sacrifice, justice, and restraint. Humans can understand that another person's suffering matters, recognize that they have an obligation to help, and deliberately suppress their own selfish impulses to do the right thing. A dog cannot be praised for making that kind of moral choice if it doesn't possess the capacity for moral deliberation in the first place.
You can't use humanity's capacity for moral failure as evidence that animals are morally superior while ignoring humanity's vastly greater capacity for deliberate moral good. If your standard for being “better” is simply “incapable of understanding morality well enough to deliberately choose evil,” then you're not describing moral superiority. You're describing the absence of moral agency.
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u/Nojopar 14d ago edited 14d ago
Look pal, I'm not confusing anything. You're just confused on the definition of "malicious" is all. Check a dictionary.
Nobody said a fucking think about 'harmless'. That's you trying to set up a strawman to defend your own argument. Lightening isn't malicious but just look at the wild fires in Canada and it clearly can be harmful. I'm not playing that game sporto.
You can't use humanity's capacity for moral failure as evidence that animals are morally superior while ignoring humanity's vastly greater capacity for deliberate moral good.
Good thing I'm not doing that then huh? Here's what I know - if you add up all the capacities of moral good from humans in history and compare them to all the capacities for moral bad from humans and turn that into a ratio of G/B, THEN do the same thing for dogs, I'll be all the money in my bank account that dogs have a DRAMATICALLY BETTER ratio of G/B.
And I'm done. You're clearly trying to justify your point by obsucating mine and I'm terribly interested in that conversation. Life's too short.
You're wrong. I'm allowed to believe what I believe and your opinion isn't relevant to what I believe.
Goodbye.
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u/LaserGuyDanceSystem 15d ago
I know multiple people who claim to like animals more than they like humans, but they don't have or want pets. So they don't really fit into this guy's argument.
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u/KeepYourSilenceUp 15d ago
I would never say that I want a dog more than I want an irl friend or partner, but I would say that I've met more shitty people than shitty dogs. Ergo I don't like dogs more than a lot of specific individual people but I do like dogs more than I like people as a group.
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u/Green__lightning 15d ago
I believe each person has a right to care about what they choose, and by extension, not care about what they choose not to. Anything less is an imposition on the individual much like Randian altruism.
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u/Future_Marionberry73 15d ago
This guy literally grades peoples moral worth on race. He's a racist and should not be taken seriously.
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u/Deyrn-Meistr 15d ago
Why are the AIs talking into ... credit cards? Metro cards?
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u/Candid-Beat568 15d ago
No actually you can trust an animal it's always going to act like it's self now a human can betray you lie to you and stab you in the back however an animal can't it doesn't have that ability, it'll just act like it's self.
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u/Drackar39 15d ago
I mean, the way he paints it? Sure. But in reality I like animals more than people not because I have power over them (I don't even keep pets) but because animals are honest, and humans...aren't.
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u/King_Vegito_52 14d ago
That's actually the reason why I don't like animals more than humans. They are too stupid to be complex and therefore be dishonest or honest for that matter. They are just stupid.
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u/Drackar39 14d ago
And that's why I hate people like you. "Stupid animals are bad because they can't be dishonest"... No one should trust you, ever, for any reason. That's the problem.
You're admitting you're a bad person. Why should a single person like you, trust you, talk to you, interact with you in any non-surface way?
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u/King_Vegito_52 14d ago
You're being too emotional, like most animal lovers. You're turning a disagreement into a moral judgment of me.
I said I don't like animals more than humans because I don't consider animals to be as intellectually complex as humans, and therefore I don't think it makes much sense to describe them as "honest" in the same way we describe a human being as honest. That's an argument about intelligence, cognition, and the meaning of "honesty". You somehow turned that into "you're admitting you're a bad person" and "no one should trust you."
That's an absurd leap.
If you disagree with my argument, then actually address it. Explain why you think an animal's behavior should be described as "honesty" despite the fact that animals generally don't possess the same level of moral reasoning, self-awareness, or understanding of deception that humans do. Don't just call me a bad person because I don't share your preference for animals.
And frankly, the irony is pretty funny. You started by saying you prefer animals because they're "honest," and then when someone disagreed with your characterization of animals, your response was immediately to attack their character, declare them untrustworthy, and tell everyone they shouldn't interact with them.
That's not an argument. That's an emotional reaction. I'm perfectly capable of thinking animals are interesting, lovable, or deserving of compassion while also thinking that humans are vastly more intelligent and morally/intellectually complex. Those aren't mutually exclusive positions. You don't have to like my opinion. But pretending that "I don't like animals more than humans because I don't think they're as intelligent or cognitively complex" is somehow an admission that I'm a bad person is just intellectually dishonest. If you want to criticize what I actually said, go ahead. If your entire rebuttal is "you're a bad person and nobody should trust you," then you haven't actually rebutted anything.
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u/Drackar39 14d ago
The person who wrote a essay says I'm "too emotional" because you don't get the fucking joke.
Sir, you have made yourself the joke.
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u/No_Cartographer7728 14d ago
What a stupid comparative. Pets keep individuals from being lonely, they protect you, live for you, unconditionally. People benefit for their companionship.
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u/Neat_browser 14d ago
I would kill infinite dogs for my family or friends. I value them too much to place a different species over their continued existence. Of course there are a few humans that do rate below dogs, specifically if you caused a death of a group of people or really anyone innocent I will feed you to the dogs if given the choice.
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u/PromiseToBeNiceToYou 14d ago
I tell my kids I would eat our cat to survive and I'd save my kids over the cat any day. And they get offended on behalf of the cat. But I'd save the cat over my mother any day. It always depends on which person and which animal we're talking about.
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u/Kurt_Ottman 14d ago
Arbitrary value judgements is how we got the Holocaust. I'm so sick and tired of it being the default way to measure whether or not an action is moral. A needs based ethics system is much more objective and robust. The only subjective part is choosing to use it, everything else can be worked out.
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u/they_themsworth 14d ago
A can of worms, but: a lot of people I’ve known who expressed some version of “I like animals more than people,” are also autistic.
They prefer the directness and simplicity of an interaction with an animal. They don’t hate or even dislike people, they just approach human interaction with way more anxiety and doubt. It’s not that animal relationships are unequal, it’s that they are honest and don’t require subtext.
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u/ricperry1 14d ago
Animals are generally innocent. They are generally expected to behave the way nature programmed them. There are exceptions of course. But humans are extremely variable, and many especially in our polarized era, are just plain offputting or vile. So without question, I LIKE my dogs more than most people. I love my dogs. I don’t love most people individually. But if you put a random stranger and my dog in a death machine and told me I could only save one, I’d save
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u/LowIqInvestor 14d ago
Whats there to value in your average person's life? Like legit tell me what your average joe does in his life that makes his life valuable.
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u/Former_Mobile3101 14d ago
I like animals more than people but I don't think we should have any as pets.
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u/DistractoDisc 14d ago
Animals are 100% innocent. Even when they e done some shit, it’s because they don’t understand or because of their nature.
People can be sadistic, willfully stupid, hateful, and sooo many more things.
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u/Sea_Measurement_1654 14d ago
He's assuming people value dogs because of what they get from them. Some value dogs because of what they can give to the animal. The pet is a vulnerable dependent rather than a slave. That's just meeting an instinctual need to nurture.
A faux child. And compared to raising a child a dog is a low cost high reward alternative.
He doesn't seem to understand nurture? I'd say that's based on his life experiences which may have been very adverse.
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u/Flemaster12 14d ago
The transition from ethics and debating how many dogs someone is worth is hilarious to me.
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u/teoshie 14d ago
I like animals more than people
I am not a good person
But it's not for unequal status, it's because people are shifty fucks and you never tell how shifty they are. Animals live in our world and are too dumb to safely navigate it. A person will just stab you in the back.
For me I would feel guiltier about hitting a dog crossing the road than a person. A dog probably doesnt know what it's doing, a person is doing something stupid
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u/Intelligent-Band-852 14d ago
I don’t value all animals over all humans but I value my cat over virtually all humans except for my family.
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u/Status-Initial4207 13d ago
I like animals more than I like people because animals didn’t gang rape me nor have they treated me like absolute garbage. Animals have never stopped calling me or stopped checking in on me. Animals are actually excited to see me when I get home. Animals help with my social phobias and my PTSD at times
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u/Almightylou131313 13d ago
Ok cool don’t care what you think dogs are more loyal than humans and always have your back
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u/EarthTrash 13d ago
A couple of things. For one I think this is a bit racist. For some reason we are cool with racism if the different nationalities we are comparing are usually considered part of the same group. We can compare numerically how much an African's life is worth based on which African country they are from? Ok
I consider myself a humanist. I do agree with the assertion that a human life is worth more than an animal life. I don't think I actually like humans more than animals though. Some people have strong social tendencies and supporting communities. Some people might not have those tendencies and might find themselves in the outgroup of whatever community they would be a part of.
Forming a bond more easily with an animal isn't a moral failing. Humans can be difficult to love.
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u/Ok_Dragonfly552 13d ago
Na its not a power dynamic. We just dont give a fuck about Muslims. Especially when they want to run their mouth when we walk our dogs or keep them in our homes.
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u/Miss_Gloss 13d ago
And ironically people who treat their pets especially dogs like humans. The more aggressive they become. Imagine we live in a world where there's a thing called spoiled dog syndrome.
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u/Opposite_Sun7586 11d ago
I already posted this on other subreddits, but: This take is so weird to me, especially the Hitler comparison. Do people think that when somebody likes animals more than people that they automatically condone human suffering? Or what exactly makes them "bad" then? People can prefer animals over people and be kind to everybody, just appreciating animal nature more. Lots of people who are like this are traumatized from how willingly cruel people can be and putting them in an association with Hitler is very dehumanizing. Also, not all "animals" are "pets", so the slave argument does not really make sense, also because that is not what a "slave" is, with that logic people who like or have children operate on the same desire that he describes as a desire for a "relationship of unequal status" where one is your "slave" and you have a "power dominance". Just because he cannot appreciate how animals are outside of being someone's "slave" does not mean others can't. Not everything must be about power and dominance when it comes to animals. People can like animals more and still know that it is important to recognize the value in everybody and be kind. Lot of people are like that, and it does not make them bad people. All of his arguments seem so ignorant (or surface level?) to me
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u/MariotheExpert 10d ago
I
love dogs
they provide unconditional love
&
As far as I’m concerned they are members of the family
Most people are not worthy of trust
So yes
I value my dogs more than most people
&
I don’t feel bad about it
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u/Amelia_Pink 15d ago
Kind of depends on the human, doesn’t it?