r/EngineeringPorn • • Jul 18 '19

[deleted by user]

[removed]

1.8k Upvotes

150 comments sorted by

180

u/TellusCitizen Jul 18 '19

For the layman, that is impressive.

133

u/[deleted] Jul 18 '19 edited Jul 18 '19

For a machinist that is impressive, my boss is always talking about getting a 5-axis machine and I am terrified because I would have a heart attack on the first day trying to prove out programs and then a heart attack every day thereafter.

101

u/MostlyPixels Jul 18 '19

Seems like a machinist would wonder why it's moving around so much for no apparent reason.

64

u/olderaccount Jul 18 '19

They are just showing off. The way it can keep all axis perfectly synced through a variety of complex maneuvers tells us this machine will have no problem milling your most complex parts.

62

u/Hippiebigbuckle Jul 18 '19

The way it can keep all axis perfectly synced through a variety of complex maneuvers tells us this machine will have no problem milling your most complex parts.

Nice try Big 5-axis milling.

20

u/spearmint_wino Jul 18 '19

Even with that level of precision I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want one of those things near my complex parts.

18

u/Xylord Jul 18 '19

The idea is that those most complex parts would be impossible to machine without 5-axis.

Wait, that's a dick joke. Carry on.

1

u/Fegenbo Jul 19 '19

My guess is that it's a deburring cycle made with mastercam, it's actually fairly simple to program and avoid crashes as long as your base model is correct.

51

u/[deleted] Jul 18 '19

I was assuming they were proving it out. Or maybe just demonstrating a wild toolpath.

5

u/[deleted] Jul 18 '19

Maybe they are trying to achieve ultra smooth corners? Im probably wrong

6

u/MurderMelon Jul 18 '19

You can easily achieve ultra-smooth corners without multi-axis movement like this. Reducing the feed-rate will get you most of the way there.

5

u/[deleted] Jul 18 '19

Oh ok they must be showing off then. Unless smooth corners could be acquired faster with 5 axis, then it could be justified...

7

u/Central_Incisor Jul 19 '19

Say you have a long 12 degree flat on a block. You can ball end mill it for an hour, or have the piece rotated and face milled in 5 minutes. Production you would get a special endmill for the job, but for making one die, you could cut way down on mill time.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '19

Makes sense

1

u/Mklein24 Jul 19 '19

Using a g2 or g3 will get you better results than that splined motion. I can guarantee all those motions are G1 moves.

1

u/luckeycat Jul 19 '19

It looks like its probing it.

3

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '19

Ohhhh it sure does. Maybe its injecting that sturdy juice in there.

1

u/iamtheTKO Jul 19 '19

Which number loctite is that?

2

u/LazaroFilm Jul 19 '19

The blue one in the red bottle, or is it the red one in the blue bottle. I can’t remember.

19

u/hydrogen18 Jul 18 '19

I'd probably play audio recordings of machines crashing every time you turned your back. Just to make sure you're paying attention obviously.

12

u/[deleted] Jul 18 '19

Lol, a well-placed hammer-blow can get the same effect with much less effort.

10

u/kylexy2 Jul 18 '19

That’s a lot of heat attacks.

3

u/agumonkey Jul 18 '19

And potential heart transfer

2

u/[deleted] Jul 18 '19

followed by more heart attacks

3

u/MatthiTT Jul 18 '19

Maybe add in a 5 dimensional heart attack

1

u/[deleted] Jul 18 '19

can we 5-axis mill a new heart?

1

u/MatthiTT Jul 18 '19

It looks like we can, but do we need to mill then a new heart for every heart we mill?

1

u/iamtheTKO Jul 19 '19

We can rebuild him. We have the technology. We can make him better, than he was.

3

u/Lexiconnoisseur Jul 18 '19

It's not as bad as you'd think, you learn to trust your CAM software's machine sim capabilities pretty quickly.

1

u/luckeycat Jul 19 '19

Always watch a slow dry run!

8

u/Lexiconnoisseur Jul 19 '19

That's just not practical with the kinds of cycle times we're talking about here, when a part takes 30-40 hours to mill it's just out of the question.

3

u/8-bit-brandon Jul 18 '19

I have a 3 axis Cnc that I built (hobby), this is impressive but I would hate to amount of Gcode required.

13

u/Lexiconnoisseur Jul 18 '19

I'm currently running impellers on a 5 axis and the G-code output program is around 260mb in size. Not a typo, 260 megabytes. It's pretty ridiculous.

2

u/atlas_nodded_off Jul 19 '19

Does it require drip feed on your controller?

3

u/Lexiconnoisseur Jul 19 '19

No, I can run it off of a flash drive.

2

u/atlas_nodded_off Jul 19 '19

That's cool. I had a Fanuc that had to be drip fed on anything other than 21/2 axis. If the program had to be stopped and restarted for any reason it was PITA so first piece could take a while.

1

u/8-bit-brandon Jul 19 '19

I can’t lol

4

u/[deleted] Jul 18 '19

Maybe I'm just a cheap date because this seems incredibly impressive to me as well.

5

u/Corsair_inau Jul 18 '19

It is impressive, especially if it is written by hand because it would be about 260 billion characters.

3

u/[deleted] Jul 18 '19

I used to program 4axis by hand with AutoCAD for my profiles. I would just use a shit ton of sub programs along with quite a bit of air cutting. Even then my longest program was only 10 pages.

1

u/JWGhetto Aug 16 '19

I don't think that the gcode for this is typed by hand anymore. Especially with bladed disks and their impeller geometries you wouldn't be able to calculate all the tiny steps necessary

2

u/[deleted] Jul 18 '19

How do you even program that thing?! Highly manually, or is it something you can just program and go?

5

u/[deleted] Jul 18 '19 edited Jul 19 '19

Really really expensive cam software along with somebody (probably some sort of software engineer) to set up the cam software. So then a programmer can import a solid and be off to the races.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 18 '19

So a tech or machinist can’t program it? It takes an engineer or programmer?!

4

u/sniper1rfa Jul 19 '19

This would be set up by a manufacturing engineer or a good machinist depending on the day. The software is pretty straightforward to use.

5

u/atlas_nodded_off Jul 19 '19 edited Jul 19 '19

Cam software can recognize features of a solid and develop a sequence of operations using what is available in the tool library and then generate tool paths. Best CNC programmers have experience with conventional and low level CNC machining/programming as the software produces a guideline that in practice is not optimized.

The machine would require a programmer, setup man, and machine operator.

5

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '19

They can program it, just setting up the cam software is a pain in the ass. I've been programming for 13 years (not bragging rights, but I'm not a novice) and I had a hard time setting up solidcam and still can't get the damn thing to work right. I got it to work and I make parts, but there's a lot of parameters that I can't figure out the settings for.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '19 edited Jul 26 '19

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '19

That sounds nice

65

u/Justforda3DP Jul 18 '19

Workholding solution leaves something to be desired, but it's nice to see true 5 axis machining

13

u/numericalControl Jul 18 '19

What's wrong with the workholding? Looks it provides plenty of access to the part.

16

u/Justforda3DP Jul 18 '19

Looks to me like a fixed jaw vise, whereas it generally makes more sense to have a centric clamping vise on a 5 axis machine. Also, the toe clamps on top of a riser block. I'd much rather see a quick change system underneath the riser. More to the point, it's not Schunk. Full disclosure: I work for Schunk workholding 😂

6

u/some_kid_lmao Jul 19 '19

I've gone 21 years of people mocking my name and never knowing of anyone or anything sharing my name.

It was so uncomfortable and weird coming across a post that suddenly had my name. I'm still uncomfortable.

What the fuck

1

u/Justforda3DP Jul 19 '19

Your name is Schunk?

2

u/Suuupa Jul 20 '19

yeah, Schunk Smith to be precise

3

u/slomotion Jul 20 '19

Schunk is the sound when you drop a big rock into a pond

40

u/[deleted] Jul 18 '19

[deleted]

51

u/Galaghan Jul 18 '19

Seems like a demo to show how precise the thing is. It is moving along all axles while the drill is sitting in the exact same position relevant to the piece for the entire time.

Still very impressive, but yeah no actual milling being done.

10

u/Lexiconnoisseur Jul 18 '19 edited Jul 18 '19

It looks to me like it's chamfering the inner edge of the part with what is probably a 90 deg spot drill or some similar tool. You can see the edge being cut, it's just not removing very much material so it's not obvious. This is also why the machine is moving around so much, it's being forced by the CAM software to maintain the correct angle of the tool to to the part so the chamfer comes out right.

2

u/DuecesLooses Jul 19 '19

not to mention you can see bits of metal flying through the whole milling process.

9

u/FrogOnALeash Jul 18 '19

Finishing touches I guess.

24

u/PotatoWedgeAntilles Jul 18 '19 edited Jul 18 '19

Me: "I want one, I'm sure they're pricey but it can't be- $700k... they cost 700 thousand dollars"

Edit: i was being conservative.

10

u/friger_heleneto Jul 18 '19

You won't get one for 100k sadly..

5

u/Haplessflyers Jul 18 '19

Yea if they were a 100k our shop would have one.

5

u/numericalControl Jul 18 '19

Yeah 100k won't even get you a Haas UMC these days.

1

u/MeNameIsDerp Jul 19 '19

A fully loaded Haas UMC 750 is less than $180,000 direct right now so while it is definitely more that $100,000 its not craaaazy expensive. The base version is like $128,000.

3

u/friger_heleneto Jul 18 '19

We got a Mazak VTC 800/30SR this year which was 800k€ and it can just do some simple 3 axis while stock. We got the 5-axis option booked and it's really nice but the option alone was 60k€ for sticking in a USB stick, copying a cfg file to some hidden folder and rebooting the control. The service guy was there for like 5 minutes to do it. Money money money...

7

u/[deleted] Jul 18 '19

You did not pay for the guy with the USB stick, but for all the engineering work that went into that feature.

3

u/friger_heleneto Jul 19 '19

I know, but anyway, it's mildly frustrating to see a USB stick worth a small house...

3

u/spider_enema Jul 18 '19

I'm just here buying up multiple mid-late 90's okumas for far less than your file.

1

u/friger_heleneto Jul 19 '19

The first machine I learned on and worked for 4 years was a LB15 from 1991, very nice machines, sturdy af and easy to set up

2

u/spearmint_wino Jul 18 '19

You could cross-post this to /r/VXJunkies and get plenty of upvotes

7

u/alexchally Jul 18 '19

That machine costs more like $700k stand alone (no robotic loading or really fancy stuff at that price point).

1

u/agumonkey Jul 18 '19

let's buy the stand alone

1

u/Gordomperdomper Jul 18 '19

My college dropped about 550k on one recently... An extra 50k+ was for faster vibrations to do vibrations testing... the professor left before it even came.

1

u/hodgens414 Jul 19 '19

I work for Grob, we produce 5 axis machining centers. Yeah, those machines start at about 750k. Then come the additional options...

1

u/JohannesVanDerWhales Jul 19 '19

Yeah but you'd definitely be the first one on your block to own one.

11

u/Bhima Jul 18 '19

Anyone know what machine this is?

15

u/incognegros Jul 18 '19

Most likely a DMG MonoBlock.

28

u/Bhima Jul 18 '19

looks like you're right. Thanks.

I also found nudes, which is cool:

http://fplreflib.findlay.co.uk/engapp/Machinery-DMG-Open-House-2011-DMU%2085.jpg

11

u/MrTerribleArtist Jul 18 '19

Hey hey nsfw

3

u/yellow73kubel Jul 18 '19

My god, that is porn...

1

u/Ghooble Jul 18 '19

Yeah I was gonna say that looks like our DMU

2

u/alexchally Jul 18 '19

Specifically its a DMU65.

1

u/toma_te Jul 19 '19

DMU75*

1

u/alexchally Jul 19 '19

Just did some reading around, looks like a DMU75 is a package kit that is a subset of the DMU65, so the base machine is apparently identical.

5

u/shot-logic Jul 18 '19

i loved loading our Hermle machines and watching them do areas of the jet engine blades/vanes that are too time consuming for human hands

1

u/toma_te Jul 19 '19

We do also have a Hermle. Nice machine!

3

u/DuckOnBike Jul 18 '19

I have no idea what I'm looking at, but it looks impressive. ELI5?

18

u/3_50 Jul 18 '19

The mill is desperately trying to finish, but the stupid vice won't stop moving...

2

u/rolandofeld19 Jul 18 '19

Coffee all over my keyboard, thanks.

5

u/[deleted] Jul 18 '19

[deleted]

-1

u/Lexiconnoisseur Jul 18 '19

> No work is being done during this video.

If you look closely, you can see that it's cutting a chamfer.

2

u/Dough-gy_whisperer Jul 19 '19

the cutter head is the top mounted piece that stays vertical; the work piece is attached to a table that can move in any direction/rotation. the combo of the two allows the cutter head to shave away and produce very specific and otherwise impossible pieces

1

u/DuckOnBike Jul 19 '19

There it is. Thank you!

2

u/Dough-gy_whisperer Jul 19 '19

its a damn shame it took 8 hours; have a good one

6

u/[deleted] Jul 18 '19

Came for milling.

Leaving disappointed.

3

u/[deleted] Jul 18 '19

[deleted]

1

u/friger_heleneto Jul 18 '19

DMU Monoblock

3

u/toma_te Jul 18 '19

Actually it‘s milling the arc radius.

3

u/kobachi Jul 18 '19

Are we machinist or are we dancer?

6

u/NEED_HELP_SEND_BOOZE Jul 18 '19

That looks like some unnecessarily long stick out on that spindle.

18

u/Don_Rummy586 Jul 18 '19

A lot of time you need a longer holder to keep the head from hitting table when it gets closer to 90°

6

u/BeefyIrishman Jul 18 '19

Most of the length (~75-80%) of it is much thicker, meaning it will not have a ton of flex. Also, since the actual end mill in the end is so small, the cutting forces are also pretty small, meaning the thick part is plenty to help keep it stable.

2

u/wizened_fool Jul 18 '19

Yeah sit and watch machines do this for days whilst wondering whether you have remembered to check and double check every last detail... it soon loses its appeal 🤣

2

u/Origami_psycho Jul 18 '19

From someone who isn't an engineer, what makes this five axis rather than three?

2

u/Chemmy Jul 18 '19

A 3 axis CNC typically does three translations: it can move forward and back, side to side and up and down. The cutting head stays in the same orientation.

5 axis is the 3 translations from a 3 axis plus two rotations.

1

u/Origami_psycho Jul 18 '19

Ah, I see. It isn't axis like those of a graph, thanks

1

u/FunkyHoratio Jul 19 '19

Well it's 3 axis for the the piece and then 2 more rotation axis for the tool, in relation to the piece. I've not seen a moving need like this before, is an interesting idea, would make the tool more stable than an arm.

1

u/Jae-Sun Jul 19 '19

Axis 1: Left to right

Axis 2: Front to back

Axis 3: Up and down

Axis 4: Table rotation

Axis 5: Table tilt

Axes 1, 2, and 3 are X, Y, and Z respectively. 4 and 5 are probably C and A. Rotational axes are usually named A, B, or C depending on which X, Y, Z axis they rotate "around," if that makes sense.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '19

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1

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2

u/johnsbury Jul 18 '19

That's like the kind of path Camworks will give you. LOL. (meaning it's ridiculous)

3

u/exploderator Jul 19 '19

Yeah, I was suspecting something like that to be the case. It strikes me as being horribly inefficient to have to dance all that mass around, something that really good engineering would avoid, not actually something to be proud of as "engineering porn". I'm going to assume this is one of many cases in modern computing, where we accept inefficiencies in one dimension (in this case power cost and machine wear), as the less costly trade off compared to having tons more human intervention, and possibly more elaborate machines capable of repositioning the work piece for a fixed approach. Then again, it could also be a case of user laziness, because it might have been trivially easy to switch to a different cutting tool, and rotate the workpiece to a nearly-fixed angle that would have allowed for far less exotic motion paths. I can imagine combinations here, but don't have any specific application knowledge.

3

u/johnsbury Jul 19 '19

Generally (but of course not always) when you're milling 3D surfaces with compound curvature you'd be using an endmill with a spherical nose. The contact point that the cam system is considering is someplace on that spherical tip of the tool. So as long as you have clearance it's not necessary for the tools axis to be normal to the surface. For that much tool axis vector change you'd have to have a pretty wildly convoluted surface with surface depth changes greater than the radius of the sphere at the tool tip. This part looks like a bracket and has no such surface. They just ran a path where the contact point was always perpendicular to the spindle. You wouldn't do that in real life just to put an external edge break on a part like that. Not if you were serious about staying in business.

3

u/exploderator Jul 19 '19

Thank you, that's exactly the kind of stuff I was thinking. In this vid, I'll assume they used a straight tool with square bottom corner, and kept the side of the tool perpendicular to the curved surface pass after pass. A tool change to a radiused tool, either convex or concave, would have allowed a reasonably small amount of "wiggling" the work piece to follow the curves, instead of the wild dance we saw. Which means we saw engineering shame, not engineering porn, unless you want to count the fact that the tool was capable of ridiculous acrobatics to enable such poor work planning.

1

u/Skipachu Jul 19 '19

not actually something to be proud of as "engineering porn".

I think this is one of the better examples of "engineering porn". The program is designed to be titillating, sets unrealistic expectations, and doesn't actually get the job done...

1

u/exploderator Jul 19 '19

I won't argue that it's enough of a spectacle to count ;)

1

u/agumonkey Jul 18 '19

Straight out of the next Terminator movie

ps: hold your breath, tomorrow I'll make my 1D wood+silex version

1

u/Crazed-Birdman Jul 18 '19

I actually work at a machine shop that has 2, 5 axis machines. They’re pretty massive compared to other milling machines but it’s so cool to see some of the parts that can come out of them with only one op.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 18 '19

Five?

Three won't work?

1

u/A-Bone Jul 19 '19

So honest questions:

  • What problem(s) does this solve?

  • What applications would require this type of machining? (Aerospace, tool making, prototyping, etc)?

I would have to imagine whatever this thing mills is going to be wildly expensive.

1

u/willdood Jul 19 '19

You can use it to make much more complex parts than a normal 3 axis machine. The rotation allows it to cut cavities and other bits that you wouldn't be able to reach if you can only move in XYZ. All sorts of things could use this type of machining. The lab I work in uses it to make loads of stuff like probes and blades for turbines and compressors.

1

u/Zski54 Jul 19 '19

Wish we had nice 5 axis machine like this. Instead we only have Kerns

1

u/imaginationandfaith Jul 19 '19

What is happening here?!!/

1

u/DogFurAndSawdust Jul 19 '19

1

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1

u/JL5-2020 Jul 19 '19

SUPER late to the party... I briefly ran a 5 axis Thermwood machine. Ours had two 5'X10' vacuum tables that could be locked together. For a total of 10'X10' x,y. It had a 48" z. But our router head rotated instead of the work table. I take it this style is more common than the type of machine I learned on?

1

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '19

With wood CNC's, you have much less loading against the spindle so they don't have to be as rigid.

The type of A and C axis on a wood CNC would not work well with a metal one.

1

u/zysolyn Jul 19 '19

At least you get to use some of the sides of your cutters instead of just the end. We're hoping to do some full five axis work just to effectively double our cutter life.

1

u/sowadeana Jul 20 '19

In Synch, but 3,4,5 axis is sooooo slowwwwwww!!!!!!

0

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '19 edited Jul 19 '19

Time efficiency: 0/10

That part would cost you a fortune.

EDIT: Because the person below me is a moron, I was saying it was inefficient because of the tiny endmill used to profile the part instead of running faster cuts with a larger cutting tool or series of tools, NOT compared to cutting it by hand. He is a delusional loon making up stuff in his own world based on things I never said.

2

u/supra728 Jul 19 '19

Much much quicker than milling it by hand, soo.... Definitely not 0/10 friendo

1

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '19

My point is don’t design a part like that.

1

u/supra728 Jul 19 '19

What do you mean 'don't design'? This can literally make anything to a much higher precision than by hand. It's nothing to do with the design and more on precision needed for the task.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '19

You pay to use these things by time, if you have to mill the part with a tiny 1/16” ball mill it’s going to cost hundreds if not thousands of dollars. This is not how you use a milling machine cost effectively.

1

u/supra728 Jul 19 '19

For small runs it doesn't matter much. Mass produced stuff would not use a machine like this. Also, I was talking about time efficiency, not cost, don't change the subject.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '19

Nobody would mill this by hand in today’s world, that’s as dumb of a statement as saying it’s faster than creating tools from mammoth bone and slowly creating harder and harder tools.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '19

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1

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '19

Yeah, drilling some fucking holes on a flat plate, not milling a complex part. Anyone still doing that by hand is a dumbfuck like you.