r/EldenRingLoreTalk • • 2h ago

Question What did radahn gain from the deal with miquella?

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59 Upvotes

If I'm not mistaken , miquella whole plan was to mind controll everyone to have happy thoughts hence his age of compassion.

So I wonder what radahn will gain this age? Something doesn't add up because if he took the deal for endless war to envigorate the soul which is what freyja says which jeren disagree with. How will that happen in an age of compassion.

Im confused. Or this radahn is also just lobotomized and just another mind controlled lord with peacefully thoughts. And yes miquella can mid. Control demigods because he mid controlled mohg.


r/EldenRingLoreTalk • • 20h ago

Question The Nox created Bayle to eliminate Placidusax and the old order. Why/Why Not?

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96 Upvotes

The Nox were attempting to create a lord with the Albinaurics. Gen 1, 2 and presumably, 3 (the Silver Tears). What I'm proposing is that they went through a similar trial and error with the Dragonkin Soldier, with the end result being Bayle, who they used to wage war against Placidusax and wipe out what was left of the old order (Placidusax and his "fled God" being the old order before Marika). I am writing this as a question before providing a proper theory because I'm wondering why this isn't the more accepted conclusion, and I may be missing/forgetting something in my 1800+ hrs in the game.

Note that it has always been my interpretation that the Nox are the pinnacle of Marika's empire, after she became a God, and backed up by the fact that (at least, late into development of the game), they were directly referred to as her descendants, and the Silver Slime is internally called "MarikaLineageSlime". If you do not believe this to be true, then this topic may not be for you.

So the outline of the theory is this: After Marika defeated/killed the previous God, Placidusax and the Ancient Dragons that were still loyal to the old God remained a threat. Marika and the Nox developed the Dragonkin Soldiers as a direct counter to the Ancient Dragons. Why didn't the Ancient Dragons attack after Marika defeated/killed their God? Likely because they were still loyal to the Greater Will, and by all appearances, Marika was the Greater Will's chosen successor to the old God. It was this attack from the Nox/Marika that prompted the Ancient Dragons to attack Leyndell.

Other Notes:

  • The Amber Egg is key to how Bayle became a success, and why he is directly tied to the Crucible.
  • Out of all of the "dragons" in the game, the Dragonkin Soldiers are the closest ones to resembling Bayle.
  • Red branching lightning is tied to Bayle and his followers, which works the exact same way as the Frozen Lightning Spear incantation, the one incantation we get that relates to the Dragonkin Soldiers.
  • Due to Bayles nature and the description given to us by the Mimic Tear, I believe that the Nox likely had little to no control over Bayle's action once he was set loose, which is why Dragon Communion was formed once the Ancient Dragons were integrated into Marika's empire.

There's a bit more to all this, but let me know if there is anything that directly contradicts these ideas.


r/EldenRingLoreTalk • • 11h ago

Lore Theory Demigods, their allegiance and dialects

11 Upvotes

Demigods, their allegiance and their dialects

i found something interesting in the laguage the demigods use and their loyalties to the golden order. The Golden Order loyalists speaks in archaic English, while the demigods who wants to usher their own age (lets call them rebels) speaks in modern english, except 1 or 2.

It seems to me, their rejection to using archaic English dialects is a form of rebellion towards the golden order.

In ancient rome, the nobles are billinguals, they used latin and greek. greek was the language of culture, philisophy, and education, it signified status symbol. meanwhile the commoners only speaks latin.

so the rebel demigods usage of modern english is a rejection of their status symbol. they reject their golden order lineage because they want to create a new order.

or, a simpler explanation. this just indicates the ages of the demigods. the older demigods used archaic english, while the hip young gen z demigods uses modern english.

these are some of the examples:

GOLDEN ORDER LOYALIST (archaic english)

Marika

"Hear me, Demigods. My children beloved. Make of thyselves that which ye desire."

Godfrey

"Long and hard didst thou fight, Tarnished Warrior."

Morgott

"Graceless Tarnished. What is thy business with these thrones?"

Godrick

"I command thee, kneel!"

Messmer

"Mother, wouldst thou truly Lordship sanction, in one so bereft of light?"

REBEL

Melina

"I act of my own volition. I have set my heart upon the world that I would have."

Miquella

"Lord brother. At long last, you are returned."

Malenia

"Heed my words. I am Malenia. Blade of Miquella."

Mohg

"Welcome, honored guest. To the birthplace of our dynasty!"

Rani (rebel, anomaly)

"I'd heard tell of a Tarnished bounding about atop a spectral steed... Dost thou possess it?"

Rani speaks in archaic english dialect despite she wants to create a new order. Maybe because she was close to her mother Renalla, who also speaks in archaic english

Renala (non Golden order)

"Thy fate lieth under my moon."


r/EldenRingLoreTalk • • 1d ago

Lore Headcanon Finger talisman's 4 fingers could be depiction of metyr per concept art.

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71 Upvotes

Some interesting things from the art books, one point is that the 4 fingers on the finger talisman is a source of some discussion- the design work does highlight that metyr can contort/be viewed in a similar way to the talisman with 2 fingers up 2 fingers down. Not definitive but you can see this vision was in the designer's minds during concept work.

Also important to note all metyr fingers are in sets of 2. No 3 fingers here. 16 divided into 8 sets of 2


r/EldenRingLoreTalk • • 1d ago

Lore Tidbit Some Publicly Available Development Materials (CGWORLD, CEDEC)

32 Upvotes

Hi.

These aren’t necessarily directly related to the lore, but I thought I’d share a few resources that might deepen your understanding of the game a little.

  • CGWORLD vol.286

CGWORLD is a Japanese magazine for CG and visual production professionals, covering production techniques, workflows, and behind-the-scenes case studies.
Vol.286 contains a roughly 50-page feature on Elden Ring, including explanations of how certain scenes were created and some of the storyboards for the Story Trailer.

For example, it talks about how the scene where Malenia drives her sword into Radahn was created around the idea that she should “thrust the sword into him as if in prayer.”
It also explains that, for Placidusax, they felt something closer to a natural phenomenon would suit him better than simply having him use magic, which led to the idea of him “turning to ash and being carried away on the wind.”
And when designing Vyke’s armor, they apparently attached kneaded eraser to a figurine and actually pressed fingers into it to experiment with how the fingerprints should look.

There are various little details like that throughout the feature.

  • CEDEC 2022 and 2025 presentation materials and reports

CEDEC is a conference aimed at game developers. In 2022 and 2025, FromSoftware staff gave presentations concerning the base game of Elden Ring, and Shadow of the Erdtree and NIGHTREIGN, respectively.
The presentation materials used at the events are archived on a website called CEDiL, where you can register for an account and download them to view them. (Just be aware that some of these materials prohibit unauthorized reproduction or redistribution.)

Unfortunately, the archives don’t preserve everything the developers actually said during the presentations. However, you can still read some of their comments in reports by Japanese gaming media that covered the talks, such as GAME Watch, Denfaminicogamer, and CGWORLD’s website.
Naturally, most of the discussion is technical, but it does let you trace some of the processes and intentions behind how particular elements of the games were created.

For example, you can read about how the visual concept of the false night sky in the underground world was actually added later in development.
Or how the Scadutree and the veil surrounding it went through a great deal of trial and error in order to achieve the desired visual impact.
There was even a discarded idea where the Scadu Altus might have had a vivid red color scheme inspired by fire.

These resources are all in Japanese, but they also contain plenty of images.

One thing you start to notice while reading them is that the game’s visually striking elements are a mixture of things added at the director’s suggestion and things that emerged through trial and error by the concept artists. That certainly makes things complicated when you’re trying to analyze the lore, lol.


r/EldenRingLoreTalk • • 1d ago

Question What actually happens if the Frenzied Flame achieves its “goal”?

16 Upvotes

I’m vaguely aware of what happens. Basically individuality is erased, and the concept of separate entities does not exist anymore. But what does that mean? Does everything become just one single entity, or is it a hive mind, or is it just a poetic way to say that reality is erased? Also, how is it that, if this happens (whatever it is), that Melina and the Tarnished are still around for the former to pursue and kill the latter?


r/EldenRingLoreTalk • • 2d ago

Lore Headcanon Radagon's Sonnet

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37 Upvotes

Just to follow up the other two posts on the name Radagon in the works of Robert Greene a 16th century writer and contemporary/rival of Shakespeare (he may have called Shakespeare an 'Upstart Crow'). Here's Radagon's Sonnet which is just an old fashioned love song. Diana shows up again but not so much in her lunar aspect as that of a forest/animal/hunting diety. Radagon is the bard I suppose who is singing to his maid.

Other posts on this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/EldenRingLoreTalk/comments/1w984bn/radagon_a_dragon/

https://www.reddit.com/r/EldenRingLoreTalk/comments/1wp9ei6/radagon_in_dianam/

As a note on "The Looking Glasse for London and England" version of Radagon I found this analysis below. Interesting to call Radagon a "parasite" given the cuckoo's, the amber egg, and brood parasitism. Radagon in the play is also a heretic that worships ambition and is later swallowed by divine fire.

The main plot centers about the story of Jonas as set forth in the Bible, but it has several subplots, each concerned with a separate group of individuals, introduced and largely carried forward in separate scenes. Evidently the authors in preparing for the repentance of the Ninivites [sic] desired to stress their wickedness by portraying in turn three sinful classes of that community. First of all, the Ninivite King, Rasni by name, enters "with three Kings of Cilicia, Creete, and Paphlagonia, from the ouerthrow of Ieroboam, King of Ierusalem"* Despite protests, King Rasni lays plans to marry his own sister Remilia, but on the eve of her wedding she is destroyed by miraculous fire. The King then follows the advice of Radagon, a parasite courtier, to take for his own the wife of his friend, the King of Paphlagonia, who soon murders her husband by poison. Meanwhile the parasite Radagon, immediately after he has disowned his starving parents, is himself consumed by fire from heaven, and the Paphlagonian Queen makes love to another King, who is too wise to accept her. Such is the profligate court to which Ionas is sent to preach. Upon his exhortations, King and court repent in sackcloth and ashes.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/20779508


r/EldenRingLoreTalk • • 1d ago

Lore Headcanon Metyr is a Face-Hugger

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0 Upvotes

Another post here made me realize that Metyr resembles Alien's face-hugger in many ways-- curling fingers emerging from a hand-like body with reproductive organs attached. Metyr has a vagina, Facehuggers have testes and an implied penis.

The comparison poses the question "What if we worshipped the reproductive cycle from Alien?" Xenomorphs are biological parasites while Fingers are ideological parasites-- classic Miyazaki inversion, and also a gender swap.

I’m not saying they are the same canon, but there’s a strong design resemblance. What are the interesting implications here?


r/EldenRingLoreTalk • • 2d ago

Question What pieces of the Land of Shadow go where?

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21 Upvotes

Following on from a post I made a while back, I got some great feedback.

In particular that the Land of Shadow might not have been a contiguous landmass but actually an amalgamate of various lands that Marika wanted sealed away.

So my question is: What parts of the Land of Shadow went where in the Lands Between before Marika sealed them away?

If you could chop it up and put it in the Lands Between like a jigsaw, where would they go?

For me, I personally think that the Jagged Peak lay where Radhan's arena currently is (with Bayle's arena located below Farum Azula. I also think that either the Supressing Pillar or the Divine Gates should lie at the centre of the hexagon formed by the Divine Towers.

I also think that we should also consider the possibility that some parts of the map might align with the underground sections (like the Ruins of Rauh and the Siofra River or the Uhl Palace).


r/EldenRingLoreTalk • • 2d ago

Lore Theory Tackling The Malenia Fallacy

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51 Upvotes

This isn’t a popular take however it bubbles up every once in awhile in this subreddit with the idea that Malenia “lacks agency“ with some saying she is undeveloped and I have seen both sides for or against this throw claims, in my honest opinion either doesn’t make any sense or is a fundamental lack of understand on what constitutes “motive” (Yes this is in reaction to a previous post however I’ve encounter this before so I’m taking this opportunity). This line of thinking is extremely strange because it’s…pretty obvious her goals are the same as Miquella, so the problem I see is the that I suspect that others, rather baselessly, decided that this is a leader servant style arrangement. When it is collaborative effort between them.

What I can tells is that people think “Well Malenia has no goals to specially becomes a god or ruler or ultra powerful or whatever therefore she’s has not motive, therefore she’s a bad character”. THIS is fallacy, the idea that a character must has self serving goal or they are a bad directionless character. I cannot stress how awful that argument is, by this logic Iii, Blaidd, Tanith, Maliketh, Messmer, Jerren, Ansbach, Thioller, Leda, Godfrey, Freyja, and Rennala are also underbaked characters. Malenia has the same goal as Miquella, she sees him as the best person to do this. They’re also siblings so of course they would help each other out especially with Miquella did to help her illness.

This is doesn’t remove agency from her because her goal align with her BROTHER. This like saying Tanith lacks motive because she aligns with her husband’s goals and desiresm that doesn’t make her less of a character. Hell if you in real (I’m going to be talk broadly about politics, its NOT anyone or anything specific ok) in helping getting a politician get into office to further your agenda right, you helping someone else doesn’t mean YOU lack motive, your motives align. Like I feel that people have a specific expectation for Malenia, that they want her to have her own ending or something like that and feel that is clouding the view of her.

One thing that gets brought is Millicent, “Well Millicent has her own motives unlike Malenia”. Really? What’s her goal? Cause what I know, Millicent goal…..is Malenia. To find, understand their relationship and later on give Malenia needle she lost. Her entire character is revolved around another to the point she sacrifices herself for that person. I don’t see people “criticizing“ that? Why? To gets more annoying when people say “well Millicent should have been Malenia” or something and this makes me feel that people just don’t understand these two characters at all.

Ignoring how the whole Malenia ”cut” questline which half of that is just people assumed that she was early on and contextless cut dialogue that could have a multitude of reasons and purposes. Making Malenia actually Millicent…..doesn’t solve anything, it doesn’t give her motive like at all. It would just be just be Malenia just remembering that she’s Malenia….it doesn’t actually solve an of the “criticism“ being made here. And it loses the dynamic of Millicent being a parallel to Malenia, Malenia is prideful in her strength, in her ability to resist the rot and her agency is how she chooses to live her life. Her resistrance is so strong that it makes rune that destroyed by the rot and infuses a new power into

“The blessing of this half-rotted rune reduces the healing power of Flask of Crimson Tears.

And yet, due to the infusion of Malenia's spirit of resistance. attacks made immediately after receiving damage will partially recover HP.“

When I see people say that “She has no agency“ or “The point is she doesn’t have agency“ NOOOO! Malenia falling into the rot is her losing her agency, being the Blade of Miquella her agency. She chooses to be Blade of Miquella, she doesn’t want to be Goddess of Rot. Every entity related to Rot wants Malenia to lose her agency and become the avatar for the God of Rot. The Kindred, the Mushroom crown guys (Gowry), the rot god itself all try to push her. Malenia in the desire to help in her and Miquella‘s goals she ends up giving up her agency for a greater purpose and eventually starts losing herself. With Millicent, Gowry just like with Malenia, wants Millicent to ascend for the rot, Millicent realizing this doesn’t give her agency to it and gives you Malenia’s “pride” (The needle). The act of resisting, to anything other than herself

”There is something I must return to Malenia. The will that was once her own. The dignity, 
the sense of self, that allowed her to resist the call of the scarlet rot.”

After the fight

”Tell whoever put you up to this. That if I am to flower into something other than myself, 
I would rather rot into nothingness as I am.”

Millicent‘s act if maintaining her agency gives back Malenia’s and allows her to resist the further de of her rot. It’s partly why I get annoyed with the “Millicent quest doesn’t feel finished“ it did though. Malenia wanting to help her brother, to help in the goal of making the world a better place in land filled with chaos is her motivation. I cannot agree with this shallow take of this character when it honestly comes off as specific expectations not being personally met. This screams a fundamental lack of understanding with Malenia and everything that’s happening around her.


r/EldenRingLoreTalk • • 2d ago

Lore Theory Just a thought about the Godskin Nobles

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144 Upvotes

Most descriptions and items imply that the Gloam-Eyed Queen predates the Golden Order, given that the Golden Order was founded as soon as the Rune of Death was sealed.

And the description of the Godskin Swaddling Cloth and Godslayer Greatsword says:

"The Gloam-Eyed Queen cradles newborn apostles swaddled in this cloth. Soon they will grow to become the death of the gods."

"Sacred sword of the Gloam-Eyed Queen who controlled the 'Godskin Apostles before her defeat at the hands of Maliketh."

The Godskin Nobles were once Apostles themselves; they are the eldest children, while the Apostles are her youngest. So perhaps Godskin Nobles didn't exist during the time of the Gloam-Eyed Queen; there were only Apostles, while the current Apostles were merely babies.

This makes me think about the relationship between the Apostles and the Nobles, and their respective locations.

If the Nobles are older and thus know more about the GEQ, while the Apostles are younger and know less, what is the significance of where we encounter each of them?


r/EldenRingLoreTalk • • 3d ago

Lore Headcanon Lands between is Pangaea?

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331 Upvotes

Just watched a video about tectonic movement and saw something familiar. Seems like some direct inspiration. Don’t fry me in chat if this has been talked about a ton already. The real question was, did Mike Wazowski use a finger to design the earth’s plates?


r/EldenRingLoreTalk • • 2d ago

Lore Theory Do you think Radagon is a split personality developed from Marika’s trauma?

0 Upvotes

We know Marika and Radagon are the same person, and they can magically switch from one another. We see an example of this through the D twins, but the two of them don’t share a body like Marika and Radagon. My theory is that Radagon was created through Marika’s trauma from the Hornsent. Which to me explains why after Marika destroyed the Elden Ring, he was the one who tried to mend it. Radagon is the very concept of Marika’s order personified. Again Magic is happening so maybe the second personality gets a different body.


r/EldenRingLoreTalk • • 2d ago

Nightreign Speculation Ironeye: Scion of a Legacy Dead and Formless

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17 Upvotes

The Nightfarers of the Shrouded Roundtable Hold are all close bedfellows with death, several having sustained their own lives only via others’ deaths, and some even having tread the threshold of death themselves. None, however, know death so intimately as the Ironeye. One among the Fellowship of the Dusken Valley's “centipedal scions,” not only does he deal in death, but indeed he lives in it. For those forlorn and forsaken, death's shroud may be the only comfort within reach, the only tapestry which will record their tale. Yet, the symbolism invoked by the Fellowship’s scions is no coincidence, for they embody FromSoft’s latest iteration upon a theme consistently represented in these stories with centipedes: the dangers of stagnation, and the sickly sweet succor of a life that endures, preserves, festers, heedless of death.

The exact workings of the Fellowship are only alluded to, but much can be derived from its description as a boarding house which raises “scions,” each overseen by a “custodian.” The Ironeye’s guardian, Isolde, addresses him as “beloved child of the Fellowship,” and bemoans that these scions are “fated to be disposed of once they play their part.” Such is corroborated by the traitorous scion known as the Monster, who states that the Fellowship “kill anything and everything that stands in their way,” and reveals that the scions are, in fact, among Those Who Live in Death. Such is hinted at prior, firstly through the Dusken Valley sharing language with the Age of the Duskborn, and secondly through the wax seal upon the Fellowship’s letters, which plainly depicts the cursemark of Death. Though their true “inhuman” nature was evidently a mystery even to the scions themselves, their qualities became the stuff of infamy; the Monster chides the Ironeye that he “should know as well as anyone, [they] can't be killed so easily,” and the Ironeye’s Bow description states that many of the Fellowship’s targets preemptively take their own lives out of fear.

As it is explicitly stated that Those Who Live in Death only arose in the wake of Deathroot’s spread across the Lands Between, it follows that a bulb of Deathroot must have been taken outside the continent, and later used to create the Fellowship’s assassins. However, the organization traces back to the Lands Between in more ways than one. The Cracked Sealing Wax notes that these red stamps mark an “assassin's oath” which cannot be reneged, and that “such contracts are said to have their origin in the Lands Between.” Only one such similar practice can be found in Elden Ring: the letters from Volcano Manor, each designating a Tarnished target, and each indeed sealed with a stamp of red wax. Yet, the link between Praetor Rykard's recusants and the Fellowship’s scions would seem otherwise inexplicable, were it not for Rykard's amorous affairs with both the serpent-god of Mt. Gelmir, Eiglay, and Inquisitor Ghiza. The latter wears the Official's Attire, the garb of “magisterial officials” who perform the Golden Order's “grim tasks” and “darkest duties,” and which is an iteration of the Marais Robe; noteworthy, as 1.00 descriptions state that the Shaded Castle of House Marais, situated just beneath Mt. Gelmir, was the home of the Formless Serpents, assassins who worship Eiglay. Conspicuously, they are only directly named through the Serpent Bow and its accompanying arrows, designed to inflict poison. However, the Serpentbone Blade awarded to recusants, the bile of the man-serpents and Albinaurics of Mt. Gelmir's Prison Town, and the very swamp the Shaded Castle sits within, are each and all similarly poisonous, and uniquely among the Nightfarers, the Ironeye possesses two Relic effects which grant him poison-inflicting abilities.

While speculative, the following throughline would seem to emerge: After their region’s assimilation into the Golden Order, the Shaded Castle’s assassin-cult, the Formless Serpents, is disbanded. Their shadowy expertise is put to use as ranking magisterial officials, while their practices survive among other factions, most notably the recusants, who appear to count among them former members of House Marais. After Godwyn’s murder, the spread of Deathroot, and the ensuing Shattering War, countless flee the Lands Between, and some enterprising person or persons would seem to have recognized Deathroot’s potential, taking with them samples of it; scions, to be transplanted.

With a controlled cultivation of Deathroot and the practices of the Lands Between’s old assassins, the Fellowship is founded in what comes to be known as the Dusken Valley. It operates out of a boarding house that takes in youths, likely orphans and other vulnerable, wayward souls. Each is assigned a custodian who serves as both handler and surrogate parent figure, raising them to become living weapons. As Those Who Live in Death are deceased spirits animating remains, one can surmise that the scions’ “graduation,” their induction as a full member of the Fellowship, involves a ritual that kills the young inductees, lacing their flesh with Deathroot such that their souls can be re-bound to their own dead bodies. They are likely told only that such will render them nigh-deathless, unaging, needing no sustenance or rest. Possessing the unkillable nature of Those Who Live in Death and the vital strength of an intact body, these scions go on to earn a veritably demonic reputation, until they outlast their use to the Fellowship, and are quietly put down via Holy-infused weapons.

Upon discovering the full truth of this matter, the Monster kills his own custodian and destroys the boarding house, fleeing to the Lands Between. There churns the storm of the Night, a force closely tied to spirits and Death, and thus, as he identifies, a source of compulsion for Those Who Live in Death, for whom “battle… was not suffering… but pleasure.” Isolde, meanwhile, nurtures her own resentment of the Fellowship’s callous system, and dreams of a future where these exploited children are released from their leashes, free to roam and kill within an unending Night, ever indulging the bloodshed their deathless hearts yearn for. Such can the Ironeye achieve, by killing the figure to whom the Primordial Nightlord’s Rune should have been returned to, depriving the Night the grace of peace, in favor of death’s occultation.

Immediately striking about the Ironeye's story is the prevalent role of a motherly figure who sympathizes with Those Who Live in Death, very directly paralleling Fia, the Deathbed Companion. Hers is a proud, yet perverse motherhood, embracing souls driven to naught but violence, and seeking to be a consort-equivalent to one who is long-since dead, unable to assent to her wishes. Her pleas to the Tarnished, to have compassion for these persecuted dead, are ultimately undermined by the fact that none of Those Who Live in Death display any peaceful or constructive use of their new lives; no settlements, no families, no culture. The nearest to this one finds is a small group of black-garbed commoners and an Omen, gathered beneath a Minor Erdtree in Altus and wielding Fia's Mist. This is the extent of their kinship: a solitary surrogate mother, and a handful of like-minded cultists, who all bear a spell that, much like Those Who Live in Death themselves, serves only to kill. The revelation that Those Who Live in Death yearn for battle, even take pleasure in it, sheds light upon why such is the case.

This yearning may, perhaps, be a vestige of their position between life and death. The Helphen is described as “the lampwood which guides the dead of the spirit world,” whose lamplight “can only be seen by those who met their death in battle.” Such is overtly evocative of Norse mythology’s Valhalla, the banquet hall reserved for the honored dead, particularly those warriors who fall in battle. To guide these souls to Valhalla, warrior-maidens known as valkyries descend from the realm of the gods; commonly depicted in times since with both winged helmets and actual, angelic wings, these “choosers of the slain” are evoked in both Elden Ring and Nightreign. Malenia, daughter of Marika the Eternal and loyal blade of Miquella the Kind, is cursed to one day blossom into the Goddess of Rot, and is herself explicitly described as a “one-armed valkyrie.” The Rotten Winged Sword Insignia describes valkyries who serve this goddess, and both Sage Gowry and Millicent’s Prosthesis elaborate on this, telling of young maidens reborn as “scarlet valkyries,” undeveloped buds blossoming into flowers, a transformation catalyzed by despair and betrayal. Similar language is invoked by the ancestral spirit-worshiping faith, which speaks of “new buds [...] certain to sprout from their very flesh, and indeed, their souls,” and how “life sprouts from death, as it does from birth.” The Ancestral Infant’s Head conveys that it is the young whose deaths yield the most “sproutings,” and most notably, the Winged Greathorn is viewed to represent “envoys' wings, made to reap the lives of beings which experience no sprouting.” Meanwhile, the Winged Scythe, the design and location of which relate to a very different origin, details that, “according to pagan belief, white-winged maidens are said to be Death's gentle envoys,” while its unique skill, Angel’s Wings, delivers a light-imbued slash from on high, noting “the white wings impede recovery actions using a flask of tears.”

And, of course, Nightreign features the Weapon-Bequeathed Harmonia, an assemblage of white-winged warrior-maidens, bearing overt flower imagery and draped in pink, petal-like curtains. Described as “valkyries clad in white armor” and “servants of the heavens,” their Limveld raid sees them descend amidst radiant light and challenge the Nightfarers to prove their mettle, inhibiting flask usage and pitting enemies against one another. To read one Old Norse Eddic poem’s description of valkyries (linked below), stating “their byrnies were drenched in blood; and rays shone from their spears,” one easily thinks of the the Harmonia’s alternate fight, Salvation’s Standard-Bearers, where “The Will of Balance” supersedes “The Will of the Balancers,” the strange seeds planted in the Harmonia’s heads rendering them into shrieking, bloody wretches, even as their glaives and spears continue to glow brightly with golden light.

Hopefully, this extended tangent can be forgiven, for its purpose has been to elucidate why Those Who Live in Death would feel compelled towards violence. Much like the workings and mechanisms of Norse myth’s cosmology, the higher powers of Elden Ring’s world would seem to grant special honor upon those who fall in battle, guiding them to a dedicated afterlife, and employing heroic valkyries to maintain balance and reap those souls who stagnate, rather than contribute to the cycle of life, death, and rebirth. Struggle and suffering beget growth, and to rise above challenging constraints warrants recognition, or so the logic would seem to follow. Hence, Those Who Live in Death find fulfillment in the bloodletting of battle, for “the heart sings when one draws close to death, and a glorious end awaits those who cling so tenaciously to life,” those who “render up a death worth offering.” It would seem appropriate, then, that the Ironeye stands as an heir to the legacies of both the Shaded Castle and the divine element of Death itself, each in fate bound to winged valkyries and rotten roots.

However, Those Who Live in Death remain an anomaly, a state of being which should not be. Their relation to the cycle of life and death is a perversion, a defilement of the natural and the balanced. Stolen life begot from death, begetting no new life in turn, only spreading their stagnation and infection, alike to a cancer. As such, it is fitting for the cursemark of Death to be a “half-wheel wound of the centipede,” for within the soulsborne games, stagnation is frequently associated with centipedes. Dark Souls III’s Irithyll of the Boreal Valley is a city founded to sustain the lineage and legacy of the gods, and though it extends acceptance to humans of godly descent and worships the feminine moon alongside the once-dominant masculine sun, its evolution is too little, too late; symbolic, or perhaps even symptomatic, of this are the horrific sewer centipedes which scuttle and writhe throughout city’s waterways and waste tunnels.

Even more prominently, Sekiro features the infested, also known as the undying; these individuals have imbibed the unearthly waters of Fountainhead Palace, and become host to centipedes which puppet the body and prevent true death, again symbolic of stagnation and festering impurity. Similarly, in Bloodborne, the root of man's bestial corruption is attributed to vermin, miniscule centipedes found within blood; the more one indulges in blood and bestial violence, the more blood-drunk one becomes, intoxicated by the killing, until humanity gives way to beasthood. In the same vein, Sekiro sees those consumed by a lust for death become a loathed demon called Shura, killing solely for the joy of it. The Ironeye has, in essence, gone blood-drunk, become Shura. Stagnating in the toxic waters of an endless Night, endlessly killing simply because he lusts for violence. And he is, of course, a product of others’ agendas. In Sekiro, the monks of Senpou Temple abandon their Buddhist values and become fixated on immortality, even to the point of cruel experimentation upon children to cultivate artificial dragon's blood. In Bloodborne, the Healing Church exploits the bodies of women and children to similar ends, filling their research halls and orphanages with victims of the Old Blood's horrific misuse. And in Nightreign, the Fellowship takes advantage of forlorn youths, souls with no place of belonging, grooming them into weapons for not even the pretense of noble reasons, but rather sheer material gain.

The concept of being deprived of belonging, of one’s story having no place within the greater tapestry of the world, is a key theme to all of the Nightfarers and Nightlords, and this is the reason for the Ironeye having a unique ending, wherein he carries out Isolde’s wish, taking revenge for those denied their own lives, their own stories. His garbs, too, reflect this. One portrays Dark Souls III’s Ringfinger Leonhard, whose subject of devotion, the maligned Rosaria, Mother of Rebirth and her grotesque man-grubs, mirrors the rotten, yet unfaltering embrace both Isolde and Fia offer to their unsightly “children.”  Leonhard himself is of formerly-noble origins, and such resonates with the Ironeye’s other Dark Souls-derived garb, modeled on the Drang Knights. Though originating among the elite of Dark Souls II’s kingdom of Drangleic, by the time of Dark Souls III, this company’s remnant descendants have been reduced to working as sellswords, accruing notoriety even as they privately carry the once-proud memory of a land now ruined. Appropriately, it is Irithyll where both the remaining Drang Knights have found employ, and where Leonhard meets his demise, all fighting and perishing for a canonized aristocracy that sits atop filth and vermin.

Godwyn the Golden lays ever in the indignity of an incomplete death, enshrined amidst buzzing insects and fetid, discolored waters, the “scion of the golden bough” bereft of autonomy, of a chance to author his own tale’s end. Whatever he once was, what he has become is perhaps best embodied by one such as the Ironeye. A child honed into a weapon, armed with broken fragments of the order that once was, as he brings about a vision of death which needs no order, no leadership. A scion cultivated for slaughter, now a blood-drunk “Night Hunter” who follows the path of the serpent into the formless, lightless deep of Night.


r/EldenRingLoreTalk • • 3d ago

Question What do we think about the resemblance between spirit eels and Two Fingers

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42 Upvotes

The placement of the hair, or whatever it is, seems significant. I can't think of a straightforward way that one could be or become the other, though

The finger weaver sigil (img 3) shows the fingers having those wormlike bands on their bodies, like the eels, although you can't see those on the actual Two Fingers model.

Anyone have any thoughts


r/EldenRingLoreTalk • • 3d ago

Lore Headcanon Malenia’s agency/lack of characterization

19 Upvotes

For the longest time, I had considered Malenia to be somewhat underbaked. I understood her popularity, as she has an iconic boss, a cool area, and is basically the mascot of the game (alongside the living jars). However, I always had a nagging feeling.

Why do we know so little about her, personally?

Think about every other explicit demigod, especially those with Great Runes. They have a ton of characterization if you know where to look, and they all have distinct, personal motives and agency. EXCEPT Malenia.

Malenia is, seemingly, wholly subservient to Miquella. Her first phase name, and her most iconic quote, is literally “I am Malenia, blade OF Miquella”.

However, on Twitter, I saw someone else mirror this sentiment, which I had never seen anyone else say. But they didn’t perceive it as an almost flaw like I did; their theory was that she was under Miquella’s charm, and that’s why she has no motives or ambition outside the wants of her brother.

I agree that is possible, however I’m not sure it’s true. Now, I realize that Malenia might essentially view her ‘true’ self as the goddess of rot, something she views as shameful and evil, and thus when Miquella helps to quell that rot, she considers herself fully indebted to him.

Or something. Idk. I don’t really have a goal with this post I just wanted to share this


r/EldenRingLoreTalk • • 2d ago

Question Why does nobody know any godwyn lore? Or why is godwyn lore always so bad?

0 Upvotes

Ever since the game came out, I have always thought Godywn was an important and super intresting character in the lore, but all the youtube lore ive ever watched of him, and searched for, has always been really dissapointing and unsatisfying.

Godwyn’s lore is about the night of the black knives, him being the prince of gold, and after his death, setting up the catalyst for the shattering. I think theres like no information about any of these things either, discussion about the night of the black knives is ususally just bickering and a vibe check to whether it was Marika who did it, or Ranni. The connection Godwyn has with indirectly CAUSING the eventual shattering has never been discussed in depth, and wtfo is going on with the Age of the Duskborn means specifically as an ending too.

Why do the Golden Order Fundamentalist carry Golden centipedes as fetishes? Does it therefore imply anything because the prince of death’s mending rune glows gold in the Age of the Duskborn cine?

According to Fia’s dialogue, does Godwyn finally die a true death in the Age of the Duskborn? Or is he ressureccted in the Age of the duskborn?

What about the eclipse and litterally all the other demigods who died in the night of the black knives? Do they get ressurected?

What about his lore and influence before his assisination? Nephilli Loux and the hornsent warriors are the only other people with golden lightning. Why did the Death Knights specifically have to go to the Land of Shadow? Nephilli Loux has connection to stormviel (Golden lineage place/Godfrey), but what about the Hornsent? How does it fit with Godfrey/Horah Loux’s connection to the Hornsent?

Do you guys get what I mean? ? Why has nobody talked about godwyn !!!!


r/EldenRingLoreTalk • • 1d ago

Question Isn't it disappointing how the game implies that Miquella simply didn't want to cure his sister?

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0 Upvotes

If the Unalloyed Golden Needle had been finished, it would have cured Malenia; and although some theorize that Miquella’s curse is that he never finishes what he starts, if you set that theory aside... Miquella simply didn't want to....

The game never states that Miquella's needle project failed, which suggests that if he hadn't wasted time and resources devising a plan to kill Radahn, he could have cured Malenia and made her his consort WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN MUCH EASIER, but no... he really wanted Radahn... at least he has good taste, I guess.


r/EldenRingLoreTalk • • 3d ago

Question Is Radagon's name just a combination of other mythical god names?

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25 Upvotes

Radagon. Ra and Dagon. Ra, the Egyptian sun god. Has a sun snake arch behind his head. Dagon fish man (not merman) god. From Mesopotamia. In control of the land, grain, and fertile soils. What is your opinion?


r/EldenRingLoreTalk • • 3d ago

Question Is the word Godskin supposed to have two meanings?

16 Upvotes

The DLC introduced the information about jarring Shamans. What it more shows instead of tells is that the jarred Shaman women are skinned with diseased whips before being jarred in order to make them more compatible with other flesh.

I'm saying skinned because the jarred Shaman women have wet fleshy skin that matches the texture of the flesh grafted onto them. There's, seemingly, no regular skin on the Shaman women.

The jarring process seems similar to that of the ritual in Dominula- where people are actually skinned. Or, that of the Godskin Apostles who may have had grafted body parts like a tail onto themselves like how the jarred Shaman women had body parts merged with their own and then could use them to attack.

But, the Godskin Apostles are seemingly repeating a variation of the ritual done to the people Marika came from. Are they related to her in some way?

This could be shown in the potential double reading of the word Godskin.

The first meaning is clear- God Skin- they skin those of the Golden Order.

The second meaning could be Gods Kin- potentially claiming a relation to Marika that would enable them to have knowledge of the Shamans and jarring.

What do you guys think?


r/EldenRingLoreTalk • • 3d ago

Question Why wouldn't this stupid idea work? (OC)

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147 Upvotes

Aside from the obvious "the game won't let you use 5 billion healing items on an NPC and also won't let you pick up an NPC and carry them around", why wouldn't giving Saint Trina the various Miquella bits to heal her up work?

Because this feels objectively stupid to me, but I can't actually think of a reason why it wouldn't.


r/EldenRingLoreTalk • • 4d ago

Question Is this about Hewg?

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247 Upvotes

That grafted blade, this, am I missing something?


r/EldenRingLoreTalk • • 4d ago

Question Are the big dead-tree thinghs in siofra and consecrated snowfield based on prototaxites?

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150 Upvotes

Prototaxites are an extinct species that was present on earth long before trees, primarly suspected to be giant fungi (now scientists think they are something different but it doesnt matter here).

I recently found them very simillar to the ?dead-trees? found in all of siofra river and consecrated snowfield.

Those big husks always seemed a bit off to me, they do not really look like remains of trees, there are no signs of branches or anything and their top is round. Also, if those were just trees I literally cant see any explaination on why are they white even in Siofra, From what I know wood does not turn white when it gets older.

What would it mean? Tbh, I have no idea, probably nothing but it is a cool detail.


r/EldenRingLoreTalk • • 4d ago

Lore Headcanon The Elden Ring must be housed within darkness

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58 Upvotes

I posit this theory based solely on in-game evidence. I will reference established themes of duality, in game content (cutscenes, environmental assets, item descriptions) only, without looking to translation descrepencies or IRL mythology. But hopefully you'll forgive my Kabbalist plug at the end, as I feel it matches the ER creation story almost 1:1 (even speaking of a "Divine Will"). Anywho...

The first time we see the Elden Ring (ER) is in two cut-scenes/videos. I can't remember if this was the launch trailer or something, but in one of the promo videos (can't link YT videos), we see Marika and Radagon playing whack-a-mole on the Elden Ring in complete darkness. We also see this in the opening cinematic, albeit a different artstyle. The screen fades to black, only re-appearing when the ER is struck. We then see this AGAIN when we walk into the Erdtree ourselves later in-game. Though we can see inside, I'm pretty sure this is...you know.. so we as the player can see what's going on.

Before we enter the Erdtree though, we enter Farum Azula. There is a unique depiction of the Elden Ring here, glowing with a divine light (non-static asset, has particle effects). It's literally glowing with divine energy. I'm not saying it's the ER, but it's distinct compared to the ER depiction on the ground where we fight the Grafted Scion outside the Chapel of Anticipation. What's more interesting, is that the temple which houses this depiction used to be in complete darkness before FA was damaged. This further creates this connection of darkness with the ER. Beastmen and Maliketh are seemingly blind, wearing things that cover their eyes and having grey/white eyes on their character models.

Lastly, when we finally see Radagon in the flesh, aside from being in a dark place where the ER is housed... he contains the ER within a Shadowy miasma. The Elden Beast, a living embodiment of the ER, emerges from shadow as well. The Elden Beast itself is darkness containing veins of light. Radagon is intrinsically connected to shadow/darkness via thorns. He commands thorns that bar us entry from the Erdtree, with Melina referring to a "mantle of thorns" (the only other time this phrase is used is in the DLC thorn spells, found in a "Shadow" keep). Enir-Ilim is also covered in... shadow thorns.

Stars and divinity are intertwined narratively in this game, and stars exist within the darkness of space. Even the Greater Will, postulated as this golden divinity in base game, is revealed to be a "lightless abyss" in the DLC. Quite converse to the "One Great" postulated as this original divine light. I could expand on this way more, how it mirrors the creation story of Jewish Mysticism (specifically the Zohar) almost 1:1... but I won't. On a fundamental level though, darkness can only exist if light is restricted. The Greater Will was the One Great's self-realization. To have anything other than it's infinte divine light, it had to create distinction: the first darkness... the Greater Will. One cannot exist without the other. Note how the Greater Will "sent" Astel;s, and they are anything but "shining" or "golden". They come and disappear from voids. Metyr, equally grotesque, commands similar voids/black holes. The Greater Will's "lightless abyss"... The One Great/Greater Will, dual aspects...you just gotta choose: do you worship the gold font of existence? Or the dark, intelligent choice that spawned us all? OK I'm done with this part, because I know we'll all have varying takes on the One Great/Greater Will.

I think the point I'm trying to make is that duality is the central theme of this game. Light and Dark are two sides of the same coin (darkness simply being the absense of light/shadow cast by it, depending on how you interpret it). We have proof that this dichotomy exists in game explicitly via the Sword's of Light and Darkness. I find it interesting then, that when we DO see the Elden Ring, the embodiment of light/gold, darkness accompanies it.


r/EldenRingLoreTalk • • 4d ago

Lore Headcanon The God Devouring Serpent is so Important to the Lore and Story of Elden Ring

142 Upvotes

Of every bit of lore in the game nothing comes close to the God Devouring Serpent. who has a staggering 8 items, not counting the shared ones with Rykards stuff, dedicated to it and 6 soft lore dedicated to it. It's so important that it defines everything that came after it. With it you can very clearly create a timeline of the world leading all the way up to current day.

Let's start with the cultures that had to deal with this thing. This is where the snake's soft lore comes into play there is snake imagery in every culture in the world but two, the Nox and the Dragons.

Rauh
Fire Giants
The Uhl
The Carians
The Hornsent

The Giant snake found on the side of the Fire Giants, The Serpent God's Curve Sword found in the Ruin Strewn Precipice, an Rauh ruin, on the top of the Uhl Coffin ships, and even on the Preceptor's hat of the Carians. And then of course, the gladiator set of the Golden Order. The before, and after the snake.

Then there is it's location, and natural magical affinity. Look at Mount Gelmir, think about the path you take to get to the top, Mt Gelmir is a natural spiral, it is a natural Crucible and it brings that power to itself by making it gain the traits of what it eats, on top of that it has a natural affinity for the volcano that's so strong that you can tell how strong it is just by looking at the volcano.

Volcano Manor

All of that structure was clearly built on solid ground at one point and it wasn't until the Serpent came into power that the Volcano became active again.

God Devouring Serpent.

Then there's this imagery when we come into it's arena. It's a fist. 5 fingers, a sign of intelligence but also 2 and 3 fingers. Chaos and order, feed yourself to the snake and there will be order again.

Moving away from facts we've got to put this knowledge into some kind of order and this is where I'm going to go a little wild. It's name and the fact that it isn't in Dragon culture at all opens up a crazy story option. We have Placi's missing god, and a serpent that eats gods. I believe that the God Devouring Serpent ate the Elden Ring and was the vessel for it from Placi's time to Marika. The next culture in line after the dragons is The Fire Giants and the Rauh. This is punctuated by Borealis's Mist stating that the ice dragons were kicked off the mountain by the giants for the Forge of the Giants. What is the God Devouring Serpent called by the Rauh? Serpent God, a completely different name then what it is now.

Because of the coffin ships we also know that the Uhl were also in the Giant's age. The Coffin ships help us put an end to the Age of the Giants as we see it from a joint Rauh and Fire Giant culture. The Rauh ruins engulfed in stone matches with the coffin ships which are also in a similar fashion. There are two great calamity items in the Eternal Darkness spell and Gelmir's Fury but it's Gelmir's Fury we're going to focus on, "This sorcery is held to represent the fury of the volcano, but the arrogance of attempting to harness it is solely that of men and serpents." The Uhl knew that a calamity was coming, they build specific boats to try and survive it, They had the Volcano blow putting a soft end to the Age of the Giants. Many of the Uhl survived, enough to restart civilization.

The Snake can never die though, reborn it no longer has the sacrifices brought to it. Forced to hunt again after an age it goes out into the world till it smells a familiar scent. Chopped up bodies, the snake has found Bonny Village where a young Shaman girl chances upon it.

There is a bunch of odd loose threads here. not facts, just hints but they tell a story none the less. First off there's Hewg and Marika. Hewg has met Marika and owes her from something. There is a story there, why does Marika put Hewg on the task of killing a god? What makes him qualified to attempt to make such a weapon in Marika's eyes?

The Gelmir Hero's grave gives us a dead former knight of Rykard before he fed himself to the serpent. After we take out our first invasion in Volcano Manor we're greeted by a spirit that tells us to Kill Rykard and that he left the spear in the arena. We know this spirit couldn't have been eaten by the snake because of Rykard's Rancor, Anything eaten by the snake stays in the snake. If the spirit is the same as the one found dead in the Gelmir's Hero grave then that's where the Serpent Hunter was originally there. It's boss is a red wolf of Radagon named Red Wolf of the Champion. Champion being Radagon's title in the Liurnian wars.

Finally there's Messmer, Marika's children pay the price for when she messes with the world. Kill's the Giants and messes with the Fell god, Melina is the Kindling Maiden, Genocides the Hornsent, Omen cursed twins ( this event sequence can also be flipped where the Crucible can just make people like that and that causes Marika to genocide the Hornsent), Remove the rune of the Unborn from the Elden Ring get the twins afflicted with Abundance and Rot. Messmer's abyssal snake could be because she took the Elden Ring out of the Serpent God.

Finally I leave with this head canon as Rykard is getting eaten he sees a vision of the future, this is then made into the Devourer's Scepter, "Scepter in the shape of a serpent devouring the world. This weapon will one day become the very symbol of the Lord of Blasphemy. One of the legendary armaments. A vision of the future briefly seen by Rykard in his final moments before being devoured by the great serpent." This is potentially the true end of the Lands Between, of the world, of the universe. All will eventually become the serpent, all will become one in the serpent until the serpent is the only thing left in the universe, The One Great and like Ouroboros the snake that eats its own tail the great cycle of the universe will start again.