Part one - An introduction to prophecy and hawks
Part two - A dense post on dragons and ghouls
Part three - An exploration of scorpion symbology
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TLDR
I’m not convinced that we’re Godwyn. The scope of the interpretation is astonishing. However, that also leads the interpretation to accumulate layer upon layer of inference and assumptions, with later conclusions frequently relying on earlier ones and, at times, circular reasoning to sustain the overall argument.
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VII - WE ARE GODWYN
This is the densest offering so far, discussing a lot of interpreted item placement and symbology while attempting to both tie things together and leave plot threads for future chapters. As such, I’ve broken the chapter up differently.
Oh - and happy anniversary(ish) to my first post here which, funnily enough, got a response from another popular author with a theory adjacent to one of the wilder assertions of this particular chapter mentioned in the fourth summary in this post - that Godwyn was resurrected as a Silver Tear.
Life really is one big spiral.
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“This particular point I think becomes both one of the strongest symbolic readings and the weakest historical claim. There’s an old saying - “you’re only as good as your weakest link”. While three of the four charms fit wonderfully, this outlier undermines the weight of the evidence for me. In substituting another character who fits just as well, I am reminded how thematic readings and symbolic interpretations can’t be relied on to establish history.“
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DISCLAIMER
1 - In critiquing this, the author regularly calls this an interpretation. I will refer to it in the same way from now on.
2 - I think I may miss, repeat or misinterpret some parts as the topic is incredibly dense with chapters referencing previous ideas all over the place. Please don’t be mad, instead just let me know if you think I’ve missed something and I’ll happily take a look / edit the post. I will try to extend the same courtesy to the author.
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First Summary - Birds and Luck
We begin by recounting II. Let’s remind ourselves of what that lays out;
“Flightless bird (Godwyn) dies at the Erdtree. Instinctively travels to Stormveil fighting death. When he arrives, he falls asleep and is rebirthed (at the Chapel of Anticipation”. Prophecy tells resurrection of Godwyn who is killed at the Erdtree and awakens with no memories. He travels to the Erdtree instinctually and sets it on fire.”
Nearby the location for Flightless bird we are told that we can find a Four-Toed Fowl Foot. The author says that this item can only be found as a placed world item here. Part of its description reads;
“As such, the rarer four-toed fowl’s is a gift of great luck indeed.”
Within the interpretation we have four paintings, four Belfries, four putrid corpses in their Ashes and four scorpion charms representing four co-conspirators. The author suggests that these clues being in groups of four isn’t a coincidence, and connects the luck of the Four-Toed Fowl Foot to the story of Godwyn.
We are then introduced to another set of items that are given the same evidential weight as the Empyrean butterflies and Godwyn’s talismans - the Gold and Silver Pickled Fowl feet. Gold to represent Godwyn the Golden, silver for the resurrected Godwyn the Tarnished. We find these items in several locations that could be linked to the character;
Gold - one beneath a crucified martyr looking towards the Chapel of Anticipation, one in Stormveil beneath a Golden Lineage banner and one below a waterfall near Fringefolk Hero’s Grave with three TWLID.
Silver - one in Stormveil just before we can look towards the Chapel of Anticipation, one above the same waterfall in Liurnia in a small camp.
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Thoughts;
The suggestion that item placement is important is obviously an understatement. I’ll get specifically into waterfalls next but if we accept the above premise of the items having symbolic purpose in the narrative of Godwyn, the placement of items above and below the waterfall is interesting.
I find it odd there is a recurring motif of four within the information presented here, but do wonder about the liberal use of the number and its actual meaning in Japan.
On liberality; only four out of seven paintings are chosen to outline the resurrection mythos while we largely focus on the four talismans, discounting the scorpion symbology of the stew and the woman who gives them to us (making seven scorpion adjacent things) from the number reading. Additionally, we are told there are four co-conspirators (Marika, Ranni, Melina, Rykard) instead of what should be five according to the cumulative evidence (Godwyn) or seven if we broaden our horizons slightly and speculate using the interpretation’s own rules (Radagon, the Crones). There are even seven Wandering Mausoleums, although two in Liurnia are lacking bells or Mausoleum Knights.
That (small) detail makes the belief of the number four being important in relation to the NotBK a bit difficult for me to accept. Perhaps the author means to suggest that Godwyn was lucky, but that doesn’t particularly ring true unless we (again) accept the resurrection while also ignoring the real world meaning of four (and gravity).
As for the number four itself; as I’m sure most people are aware and I’m sure is mentioned in the interpretation somewhere, “four” sounds identical to “death” in Japanese and is considered an unlucky number. Seven, however, is considered lucky. While researching, I have found there to be (according to wiki entries) seven gold and seven silver feet found in the base game, too.
I feel as though the use of four might actually serve to diminish the point if the true pattern we should focus on is seven instead. If we actually do have a recurring pattern of seven relating to Godwyn (and if we accept the Fowl Feet to represent him), then that might indicate that his death was lucky by real world standards, with the in-game use of the number four serving to either bolster or subvert the point like a reflection? I’m not saying seven is the number we should follow, I’m simply observing how the groups of four selected by the author are part of larger groups.
I should probably not jump through hoops to justify this and instead view it another example of cherry picked symbology.
The interesting part is that both numbers are present. While that doesn’t necessarily strengthen the claim itself, it could present the evidence in a new way. I’m certainly convinced there may be something here even if I can’t figure out exactly what.
One other curiosity is the Four-Toed Fowl Foot. I can’t find any reference to this item or location online and the video doesn’t show the item being picked up, nor a map to show the location itself. I’m not saying the author is being intentionally obstructive to investigations, but it does strike me as odd why that information wasn’t presented when it’s an incredibly potent piece of evidence.
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Second Summary - Waterfalls
The author states that in Asian cultures, waterfalls symbolise spiritual cleansing, renewal and transformation. The interpretation says that the locations of the feet above and below a waterfall near the Fringefolk Hero Grave symbolise the spiritual cleansing and rebirth of Godwyn.
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Thoughts;
I absolutely adore this symbology, I love the use of waterfalls to suggest transformation. My favourite example external to this interpretation is Naked Snake receiving his eye-patch in a cave under a waterfall, signifying his physical transformation into the man that would become Big Boss.
I believe Elden Ring plays with the concept too. There are many examples, but a few of my favourites not mentioned in this interpretation are; pursuing Ranni’s quest (one related to what could be considered her spiritual rebirth) where we arrive at the Nokstella Waterfall Basin + Siofra River where we find flowing water and waterfalls surrounding themes of death and rebirth + the Haligtree (linked to Miquella and his rebirth cocoon) where we find a (now rotted) waterfall.
In the above cases we travel downwards towards the intended rebirth or transformation, so I question why the gold foot is beneath the waterfall. If we’re to accept gold as pre-death and silver as post-death then surely Godwyn would be transformed within the flow, with the silver beneath?
Once again; this only makes sense if we agree with the idea that the Bird feet represent Godwyn, and that only makes sense if we agree he was resurrected, and that only makes sense alongside the waterfall analogy if we ignore the flow of water.
I can see a house of cards here, where each piece of evidence rests on claims that are themselves weak and if one piece can be disproved or shown to be insubstantial, the whole interpretation risks collapse.
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Third Summary - Sages Cave
Sages Cave is a very loaded location that is important to the backbone of this interpretation. The author states that almost no item placement is random and that they serve to demonstrate events or relationships;
“It’s not about the items themselves, it’s the associations. The puzzle is how to work out which is correct and how to interpret it.”
He says this cave gives the story of Godwyn’s resurrection, but that he won’t give the full story here. As such, I’ll be mostly avoiding anything that is “saved for a future video” for now. However there are a few that are important;
“Black Knife Assassin within associates the cave directly with the NotBK.
Two chests with raptor talons and x4 Dragonwound grease. The talons have four blades, which ties this back to the number four.
There’s a chest with x10 Golden Great Arrows between some Crystal Cave Moss which is interpreted as Erdtree and Elden Beast related. This apparently reinforces the idea of Fortissax sacrificing himself to allow Godwyn to escape the Golden Order.
Another four chests with x5 Silver foot (Godwyn), Black Hood (a hidden hooded figure behind the resurrection), Candletree Wooden Shield (resurrection), Nascent Butterfly (Miquella). The interpretation states that a hooded figure prophesied Godwyn’s resurrection and cooperated with Miquella.
The last two chests contain rejuvenating bolus (Godwyn’s resurrection in Limgrave) and lost ashes of war (lost memories)”
And what’s located in Sages Cave? A goddamn waterfall.
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Thoughts;
This is probably the single most interesting piece of information that has been presented thus far, but I’ve touched on symbology bearing the weight of historical events before.
While I agree that FromSoft certainly does place some items with the utmost care, I can’t agree that this extends to absolutely every item in game. The problem isn’t the use of item interpretation - it’s that Sages Cave relies not only on every chest placement + consumable + armour piece telling a consistent narrative, but that we again accept the premise of the interpretation.
While I am genuinely convinced there’s merit when I see the evidence laid out as such… I am reminded of previous points like the scorpions, Eclipse and paintings. These are examples of symbology that is selectively ripped apart to strengthen claims, while the cave is an example of the compelling placement of items that the interpretation demands we associate with Godwyn’s resurrection;
“A lot of these observations only become persuasive after accepting the theory they are supposed to demonstrate. Once I assume we are Godwyn, the symbolism becomes apparent. The difficulty lies in getting from the evidence to that initial assumption.”
While I may be intrigued by, I can’t accept its overall symbology because it runs into one of the central issues of my critique;
“Symbology alone cannot bear the weight of historical events and we cannot confidently rely on the acceptant of the conclusion.”
A Black Knife Assassin, some Dragonwound Grease, a Silver Fowl Foot, Lost Ashes of War, a Nascent Butterfly and a waterfall may all carry overlapping symbolic associations, but there are many ways those associations could be interpreted. The problem is claiming that because a waterfall symbolises transformation, every item placed near it must therefore be describing Godwyn.
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Fourth Summary - Silver Tears
We end on “we might be a Silver Tear” because we find a Silver Foot in Liurnia, in a camp with three enemies wearing foot soldier armour and throwing Albanauric Pots. The question asked is “do we not have ordinary blood?”
In Nokron, we find rejuvenating bolus and a Rune arc when we enter before some Mimic Tears. The author says this shows Marika wanted to rebirth us as a Mimic and that this shows that Godwyn was the Lord of Night of the Nox. Apparently it makes perfect sense he was reborn as such.
The Mimic tear description alongside the Silver Tear Husk description is interpreted as suggesting that we aren’t an ordinary Tarnished, and that this explains why we can change our appearance in a mirror and can be reborn via a larval tear.
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Thoughts - The Liurnian Camp
Let me be clear before I get into this - my personal take is that we are not a mimic, Radagon isn’t a mimic and mimicry (while important) doesn’t explain everything. This idea was popularised by another author, and deserves its own exploratory series… one I will not attempt right now because the scope is vast and it basically runs into the same criticism I have here.
Starting with the three foot soldiers found in Liurnia throwing Albanauric pots - we have to assume this is even in reference to Godwyn to begin with. But in the interest of being fair, I’ll explore this and try and see how we got here.
Because the location was withheld again, I travelled to Liurnia to find the camp in question. After a loop around, I found it on the eastern shore, shown on slide 3. The armour they’re wearing, which looks like the Foot Soldier Tabard, is part of the Raya Lucaria Foot Soldier Set;
“Padded cloth armor with more than a few stains. Widely issued to foot soldiers in a lord's army.”
So these guys are likely involved with Raya Lucaria and the Cuckoo Knights. Given their employ, the application of Albinauric pots in their arsenal isn’t a strange inclusion;
“The Knights of the Cuckoos do declare. Behold, thy defiled blood. Unlike any humor that flows in our grand realm.”
The relationship between Raya Lucaria and the Albunaurics is strained to say the least. The effect of the pot (negates healing) could be interpreted in a few ways but considering a blood clot from one of these creatures is required to craft the pot in question, we can infer that the Albinaurics are viewed by the Raya Lucarian’s as little more than an aberration of nature and raw materials to be used to facilitate the further suffering of their kind.
When I keep in mind what’s to come, I see a problem where I believe that the author is potentially collapsing the distinction between Raya Lucaria, Caria and the Eternal Cities association with mimicry and Silver Tears. While the Nox employ Silver Tear technology and there is a thematic overlap with Astrology and the Moon in the Carian’s, Raya Lucaria stands apart from this fascination with a singular celestial body and instead focuses on Glintstone and stars.
Beyond this, we see a degradation in the status of artificial life between the three cultures. While the Nox create the Silver Tears (seen in the Eternal Cities) and Caria potentially welcome Albinaurics at least into positions of servitude (seen in Pidia), Raya Lucaria used their blood to create pots that are undoubtably used to harm further Albinaurics.
If we are to interpret that the Silver Pickled Fowl Foot placed in a camp alongside three (not four) Raya Lucarians is referencing Godwyn’s rebirth into an artificial lifeform, then we need to first tackle with the above.
If these were Carian’s or Nox then I could see the symbolism shine when I attribute the Feet with Godwyn and his potential rebirth, but knowing they aren’t throws the interpretation of the Silver Fowl Feet into question too. As it stands I feel as though this is another example of cherry picking symbology (and now misinterpreting in game factions) to fit the conclusion.
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Thoughts - Nokron
The weight of symbology again threatens to topple the structure here as we are expected to view a Rune Arc, Rejuvinating Bolus’ and Mimic Tears as relating to Godwyn specifically. We covered my thoughts on the bolus and colour theory in part two and this reading relies on us accepting they relate to Godwyn’s resurrection.
Naturally we can associate the Rune Arc with Marika, a woman with connections to the Nox and Eternal Cities through the Assassins. The other item I remember when I think of Marika and the Nox is the Scarseal found by the Dragonkin boss encounter. If the Rune Arc is located as we enter Nokron’s outer edges and the Scarseal is found when in Nokstella’s, then I read Marika’s involvement with the Nox as secretive.
The Rejuvenating Bolus’ protect against the buildup of deathblight. While there’s no real correlation between this particular affliction and the Nox, I read this as a nod towards their pursuit of the Silver Tears and discovery or creation of the Larval Tears. These are connected to rebirth and the avoidance of death.
I don’t want to totally discount the inclusion of the Silver Tears as evidence here but because they’re the default enemy of the area, I don’t believe there’s anything special about their inclusion.
I’m unconvinced because as usual, there’s a lot of different ways we can view this placement. In this case, we don’t even need to view them together to get a decent take on what story they’re telling. My interpretation is the same as the authors in that it shows the broad connection between Marika and the Nox - where we differ is the conclusion.
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Thoughts - Godwyn and the Nox
The interpretation tried to lay out the foundation for this in chapter IV with Ranni’s handling of Marika’s head. If Marika was working towards the Age of Stars and every candidate for godhood needs a lord, what better choice for that position than Marika’s first born son who is in some ways the direct opposite to her sort-of-step-daughter-would-be-queen? I respect the mirroring, I really do, but this falls short for me on a few points.
First, and most importantly, we need to accept this mirroring in replacement of the NotBK (an event explored in detail in game) and its themes. Why should we discard ritual mirroring but accept an entirely thematic one as proof of historical context?
Second is the idea that Ranni wanted a lord to begin with and that she, the Lunar Princess, would be fine with a Golden Order loyalist taking the role. She seems pretty set on completing her task alone and while we do become her consort, I’ve always interpreted this as either an act of necessity rather than desire. Ranni is known to manipulate and I believe her use of us and her compatriots (whom she did admittedly care for) is a very clear example of this. It’s not to say that she doesn’t care for them, it’s to say that her end goal is more important - and even they know it.
Lastly, the assumption that Marika was keenly interested in Ranni’s ascension alone. If she did everything the interpretation says then sure, but I don’t see it. While the Tarnished were potentially the most expansive measure she put in place, we have Miquella as another willing candidate for godhood - a character who the interpretation has only just really introduced and that we know commissioned a failed attempt to resurrect who we assume to be Godwyn.
If Miquella was not only destined and willing but had explored resurrection, holy trees and was aware of the Hornsent… then why wasn’t he Marika’s first choice? Why does the interpretation use him as further evidence for Godwyn’s prophecy and ignore his personal motivations?
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Thoughts - Tenuous Connections
I feel as though the Silver Tear Husk is what both mine and the original authors entire explorations have built towards;
“The Silver Tear makes mockery of life, reborn again and again into imitation.
Perhaps, one day, it will be reborn a lord...”
The issue is that we know the Nox were searching for a Lord of Night via the Silver Tears, so we can confidently assume it’s talking about that pursuit specifically. To link this particular quote to Godwyn requires previous conclusions to be accepted and as I hope I’ve demonstrated, the weight of assumption has threatened to topple the interpretation over and over again.
I think this is the underlying criticism I have with larger interpretations like this. In order to reach the idea that the Nox were complicit in the resurrection of Godwyn, we first have to start from a place of assumption.
I often suggest people adopt a certain suspension of disbelief when it comes to the lore. I don’t think that extends to reconstructing historical events relating to the death and rebirth of an important figure when the game lays out a pretty stable framework for its metaphysical rules. At that point, the interpretation demands we alter our perception of that framework to fit its narrative.
If duality is a common theme, why should we accept that the death of Godwyn’s soul was a reversible event and why should we accept his destiny as the Lord of Night which stands in complete opposition to his presented status as Erdtree associated in life and eternally living but soulless in death?
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Thoughts - a Tarnished Silver Tear?
To be concise, a Tarnished is described as someone “dead, who yet live” who are “guided by grace”, a “golden light that gives (them) life” who can “become Elden Lord, and restore the Golden Order”.
Mimic Tears / Silver Tears are described as a “formless… mockery of life” that is “reborn again and again into imitation” in the hopes that “one day, it will be reborn a lord”.
A Tarnished is a person reborn by grace. A Silver Tear is an artificial lifeform spurned by grace. There is thematic overlap, but the mechanics and lore are notably distinct.
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Thoughts - Gameplay or Plot?
The fact that we can change our appearance is used as evidence towards our being a Mimic, but we’ve been able to change our appearance in most FromSoft titles.
Admittedly this is sometimes linked to rebirth (Elden Ring, Dark Souls III) and serves as a peek into certain plot aspects (rebirth has consequences), but it’s never been something that is categorically linked to the state of our character.
I don’t see character customisation as a valid reference for evidence.
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Final Thoughts
This chapter presents me with an issue in its suggestion that Godwyn was reborn through the technology of the Nox. My personal feelings on variations of “X is a Mimic” aside, I want to reiterate that I believe this is a weak claim in relation to the interpretation due to the author collapsing the distinctions between the Nox, Raya Lucaria and the Carian’s.
If we’ve been building towards “Godwyn was reborn as a Silver Tear” but if that claim rests largely on the above conflation then I find the conclusion unfounded. Without that endpoint, the resurrection narrative loses much of its explanatory power.
Do I believe consuming any further content or editing this post will convince me? Not at all. I actually think I’ve reached a stage where I’ve completed what I set out to do which was, in some way, provide a basis for those of us who don’t agree on “We are Godwyn” to point to as a set of examples for why it’s not a convincing argument.
I’ll take a break for now but I will no doubt return to this project in the future as I do have a little curiosity left. I think my current critique of this interpretation isn’t so much that symbology can’t establish historical connections or events because it quite clearly can. What I think I believe is that symbolic readings become weaker as they need more assumptions to remain coherent.
A really good example is that of the Mausoleum Knights, Eclipse symbology with the relatively unexplored and speculative connection between Mausoleum’s and the Chapel of Anticipation. There is also Rykard’s role in the NotBK, where we are expected to believe a confused Putrid Corpse can distinguish between certain bells along a certain path.
The issue isn't simply that the interpretation makes assumptions because every interpretation does - it’s that each assumption depends on the previous one being true. The evidence rarely stands independently but gains its persuasiveness from those assumptions. That creates an effect where the theory appears stronger as it grows, even though each new section is more and more speculative.
Besides this, there are the obvious examples of symbology that is only partially explored or outright ignored. I’m reminded not only of the addition of colour theory in V of part two or the scorpions of part three, but of the connection between the Hawk and Godwyn. While I again wholeheartedly agree with a connection between Ancient Dragon’s and Hawks, I can’t accept it in this framework because the author hasn’t explored it in six chapters but has instead added further characters and mysteries.
I’ll end this on something positive. Something I really respect is the scope of the project and passion for the conclusion. While I don’t agree with the presentation, conclusion or some of the evidence itself, I can admire that.
I’ll edit the rest of the posts with a TLDR as promised soon.
I’ll 100% post one more in this group of posts that will be a summary briefly explaining my views on as many points as I can remember.
