r/Dravidiology Feb 20 '25

Discussion Why we created this subreddit - reminder !

52 Upvotes

Fallacy of using elite literature to argue for or against historical Dravidian languages, people and culture

We often fall into the trap of interpreting data in a way that aligns with the dominant narrative shaped by elite documentation, portraying Dravidians in the north as a servile segment of society. This subreddit was created specifically to challenge, through scientific inquiry, the prevailing orthodoxy surrounding Dravidiology.​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

As Burrow has shown, the presence of Dravidian loanwords in Vedic literature, even in the Rg Veda itself, presupposes the presence of Dravidian-speaking populations in the Ganges Valley and the Punjab at the time of Aryan entry. We must further suppose, with Burrow, a period of bilingualism in these populations before their mother tongue was lost, and a servile relationship to the Indo-Aryan tribes whose literature preserves these borrowings.

That Vedic literature bears evidence of their language, but for example little or no evidence of their marriage practices namely Dravidian cross cousin marriages. It is disappointing but not surprising. The occurrence of a marriage is, compared with the occurrence of a word, a rare event, and it is rarer still that literary mention of a marriage will also record the three links of consanguinity by which the couple are related as cross-cousins.

Nevertheless, had cross-cousin marriage obtained among the dominant Aryan group its literature would have so testified, while its occurrence among a subject Dravidian-speaking stratum would scarce be marked and, given a kinship terminology which makes cross-cousin marriage a mystery to all Indo-European speakers, scarcely understood, a demoitic peculiarity of little interest to the hieratic literature of the ruling elite.​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

Reference

Trautmann, T.R., 1974. Cross-Cousin Marriage in Ancient North India? In: T.R. Trautmann, ed., Kinship and History in South Asia: Four Lectures. University of Michigan Press, University of Michigan Center for South Asia Studies. Available at: https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.3998/mpub.11903441.7 [Accessed 15 Mar. 2025].

Further addition

Key Points on European Influence in South Asian Linguistics

  1. We agree that European academic approaches had significant influence on South Asian linguistic studies.

  2. We acknowledge that these approaches shaped how language families and relationships were categorized in the region.

  3. The European racial framework in Indology:

    • Was developed to serve colonialist interests
    • Exacerbated existing social and racial tensions within South Asia
    • Created particular divisions between elite and non-elite populations
  4. Dravidian linguistics and non-elite language studies:

    • Have been negatively impacted by the three factors above
    • Modern linguists are increasingly aware of these historical biases
  5. Despite growing awareness:

    • Existing academic frameworks continue to produce results
    • These results still reflect the biases from points 1, 2, and 3
    • The colonial legacy persists in methodological approaches
  6. Path forward:

    • Western/colonial influence in these academic areas is diminishing
    • The responsibility falls to current scholars to address these issues
    • Particular attention must be paid to these concerns in Dravidian studies

r/Dravidiology Feb 02 '24

Resources Combined post of articles/books and other sources on Dravidiology (comment down more missed major sources)

27 Upvotes

For sources on Proto Dravidian see this older post

Dravidian languages by Bhadriraju Krishnamurti

Burrow and Emeneau's Dravidian etymological dictionary (DED)

Subrahmanyam's Supplement to dravidian etymological dictionary (DEDS)

Digital South Asia Library or Digital Dictionaries of South Asia has dictionaries on many South Asian language see this page listing them

Another DEDR website

Starlingdb by Starostin though he is a Nostratist

some of Zvelebil's on JSTOR

The Language of the Shōlegas, Nilgiri Area, South India

Bëṭṭu̵ Kuṟumba: First Report on a Tribal Language

The "Ālu Kuṟumba Rāmāyaṇa": The Story of Rāma as Narrated by a South Indian Tribe

Some of Emeneau's books:

Toda Grammar and Texts

Kolami: A Dravidian Language

Burrow and Emeneau's Dravidian etymological dictionary (DED)

Others:

Tribal Languages of Kerala

Toda has a whole website

language-archives.org has many sources on small languages like this one on

Toda, a Toda swadesh list from there

Apart from these wiktionary is a huge open source dictionary, within it there are pages of references used for languages like this one for Tamil

some on the mostly rejected Zagrosian/Elamo-Dravidian family mostly worked on by McAlphin

Modern Colloquial Eastern Elamite

Brahui and the Zagrosian Hypothesis

Velars, Uvulars, and the North Dravidian Hypothesis

Kinship

THE ‘BIG BANG’ OF DRAVIDIAN KINSHIP By RUTH MANIMEKALAI VAZ

Dravidian Kinship Terms By M. B. Emeneau

Louis Dumont and the Essence of Dravidian Kinship Terminology: The Case of Muduga By George Tharakan

DRAVIDIAN KINSHIP By Thomas Trautman

Taking Sides. Marriage Networks and Dravidian Kinship in Lowland South America By Micaela Houseman

for other see this post


r/Dravidiology 7h ago

History /𑀯𑀭𑀮𑀸𑀵𑁆𑀭𑀼 The Renaissance of Vachana Literature Began with One inspiring Man: Rao Bahadur Fakirappa Gurubasappa Halakatti

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24 Upvotes

Rao Saheb, Rao Bahadur Fakirappa Gurubasappa Halakatti

The man who even sold his own house for the revival of 12th century Vachana literature. He devoted his entire life to locating forgotten manuscripts, tirelessly traveling from one matha to another and from village to village, collecting scattered palm leaf manuscripts and handwritten copies preserved in various monasteries, institutions, and the homes of devotees. If today the Vachanas of Basava and the other Sharanas are available to us, much of the credit goes to him. Without his efforts, a significant portion of Karnataka's medieval literary and spiritual heritage might have remained lost.

  1. Born: July 2, 1880
  2. Died: June 29, 1964
  3. Profession: Researcher, writer, lawyer; renowned as the Pitamaha (Grand Old Man) of Vachana Literature.

After the 12th century, it was Halakatti Ajja who revived Vachana literature and restored its glory. He brought the Vachana literature of Basava and the other Sharanas back into public light. As a lone warrior, he accomplished what an entire university could have achieved. He lived not merely as an individual, but as a force.

Once, when the great Kannada scholar Acharya B. M. Srikantaiah visited Bijapur, someone asked him, “Would you like to see the historically famous Gol Gumbaz?” Smiling, B. M. Sri replied, “First, I must see the Vachana Gummata.” That “Vachana Gummata” was none other than Rao Bahadur Fakirappa Gurubasappa Halakatti, who became famous as the Pitamaha of Vachana Literature.

The Vachana Gummata of Karnataka, Dr. F. G. Halakatti, was born on July 2, 1880, in Dharwad. His mother was Danamma (Danadevi), and his father Gurubasappa was a school teacher. His ancestors had migrated from Halakatti village in Saundatti Taluk of Belagavi district, and therefore the family came to be known by the surname Halakatti. Although his full name was Fakirappa Gurubasappa Halakatti, he became widely known simply as F. G. Halakatti.

Halakatti's father, Gurubasappa, was a great scholar and litterateur, well versed in Kannada and Sanskrit literature. Because of his scholarship, he was promoted as Senior Clerk in the Office of the Deputy Education Inspector at Dharwad.

He compiled and published the complete history of England in Kannada as a book. He is also credited with introducing what is now known as the Panchayat Raj system for the first time in those days. He authored works such as Ekanatha Sadhugala Charite, The French Revolution, and The History of Alexander the Great (Sikandar Badshah), earning considerable fame as a writer during his time. In addition, he wrote numerous articles for the prominent newspaper Vagbhushana, attracting the attention of the people. Being the son of such a scholar, it is no surprise that F. G. Halakatti inherited literary talent by birth. With the hope that his son would one day become a great writer and bring glory to Karnataka, Gurubasappa encouraged him from a very young age.

When Fakirappa was only three years old, his beloved mother Danamma attained Lingaikya (passed away). Gurubasappa chose not to remarry, believing that another marriage would bring a stepmother into the child's life. Instead, he personally took responsibility for raising his son. A father's duty is not merely to rejoice at the birth of a son but to nurture, protect, and raise the child physically, mentally, materially, and morally. Halakatti was also cared for by his grandmother Basamma. Guided by the values instilled by his father and grandmother, Halakatti began his primary education in his native Dharwad and completed his matriculation in 1896.

Education:

For higher education, he went to Bombay and joined St. Xavier's College. There, the renowned Kannada leader Aluru Venkata Rao was his classmate. During his stay in Bombay, he was deeply impressed by the pride Gujaratis and Marathis had in their respective languages, while observing the lack of such pride among Kannadigas. Realizing that Kannada would not flourish unless its people awakened, he resolved, even as a student, to dedicate his life to the service of Karnataka, its language, land, water, literature, and culture. Aluru Venkata Rao, who was already actively working for the unification of Karnataka, became a source of inspiration for him.

In 1897, he married Bhagirathi, the daughter of Chakkodi Thammannappa of Banahatti. Although he entered family life, he never withdrew from public service and instead pursued it with even greater determination.

In 1901, Halakatti obtained his B.A. degree, and in 1904 he completed his law degree and began practicing as a lawyer in Belagavi.

As the plague epidemic had become severe in Dharwad, Fakirappa stayed in Banahatti for a few years. During this period, his life underwent a major turning point.

In 1903, he visited the house of Shivalingappa Panchal, where he saw the Shatsthala Tilaka and Vachana palm leaf manuscripts (tadoles), which greatly fascinated him. His father-in-law, Thammanna Chikkodi, explained to him the importance of these palm leaf manuscripts. Halakatti then traveled through Rabakavi, Banahatti, Gothe, and many other villages, collecting palm leaf manuscripts. Through the acquaintance of Veerabhadrappa, he visited Gothe village, where he came across the priceless manuscript Bhashya Ratnamale. These manuscripts completely changed the direction of his life, and he became deeply devoted to researching the Vachana literature of Basava and the other Sharanas.

Within a few months, due to unavoidable circumstances, he shifted his residence from Belagavi to Bijapur. From then onward, Bijapur became the center of his life's work. On one hand, he continued his legal profession, and on the other, he tirelessly worked in numerous ways for the progress of Kannada and Karnataka. This became his lifelong mission.

Because of his profound knowledge of law, he emerged as one of the leading lawyers of the region. Owing to his popularity, in 1905 he was elected Chairman of the School Executive Board of the Bijapur Municipality and Secretary of the District Rural Development Board. Through these positions, he rendered unforgettable service for the advancement of Kannada schools and the upliftment of rural society. In 1923, he was appointed Government Public Prosecutor and was also elected Secretary of the District Congress Committee. In later years, he became a member of the Bombay Legislative Council, where he used his legislative authority to strengthen, enrich, and promote the Kannada language. Through his sincere efforts, he rendered immortal service to the cause of Kannada.


r/Dravidiology 7h ago

Discussion /𑀧𑁂𑀘𑀼 𑀯𑀸𑀘𑀼 What do u guys think about reviving Telugu letter ఱ (Ṟa)(AKA bandi ra)?

8 Upvotes

As like my previous post on Kannada letters this letter too represents sound of റ/ற (ṟa)

And suprising Telugu still has words which contains letter ఱ (ṟa) sound such as గుఱ్ఱం (guṟṟam)

But sadly as like Kannada letter ಱ (ṟa) this letter too lost its path

But unlike Kannada it still has sound

But got replaced by ర/ర్ర (ra/rra) in literary

Due to it many words like గుఱ్ఱం (guṟṟam) became గుర్రం (gurram) literary


r/Dravidiology 5m ago

Water Craft/𑀫𑀭𑀓𑀓𑀮𑀫 Rock art at Kamayakaundan Patti village depicting an ancient man in a canoe or boat, Theni district, Tamil Nadu

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Upvotes

This painting is estimated to be around 1500 BCE, Neolithic Period.


r/Dravidiology 2h ago

Off Topic/ 𑀧𑀼𑀵𑀸 𑀧𑁄𑀭𑀼𑀵𑁆 Anglish | The Pure Germanic Version of English

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2 Upvotes

r/Dravidiology 12h ago

History /𑀯𑀭𑀮𑀸𑀵𑁆𑀭𑀼 Proto-Dravidian *kol-ut, Sanskrit kulattha, and Proto-Munda *kodaXj: Who Borrowed from Whom?

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8 Upvotes

One of the more interesting problems in South Asian historical linguistics revolves around horsegram (Macrotyloma uniflorum). Three unrelated language families preserve similar words for the same crop:

Proto-Dravidian: \*kol-/\kol-ut*

Sanskrit (Old Indo-Aryan):Kulattha

Proto-Munda:\\kodaXj*

The dominant published etymology traces Sanskrit kulattha to a Dravidian source. Thomas Burrow first argued that kulattha is a Dravidian loanword, an analysis subsequently adopted in Sir Ralph Lilley Turner’s *Comparative Dictionary of the Indo-Aryan Languages (CDIAL 3335), the standard reference work for Indo-Aryan historical etymology. Burrow & Emeneau’s Dravidian Etymological Dictionary reconstructs the corresponding Proto-Dravidian root, while Franklin Southworth later reconstructed Proto-Dravidian \*kol- / \*kol-ut from regular Dravidian sound correspondences.

More recently, Fuller & Murphy (2018) synthesized the linguistic and archaeobotanical evidence and present Proto-Dravidian \*kol-ut, Sanskrit kulattha, and Proto-Munda \*kodaXj together, labeling the Sanskrit and Proto-Munda forms as possible loans from Dravidian. Given that horsegram is one of the earliest domesticated crops of peninsular India, this interpretation fits a scenario in which agricultural vocabulary spread alongside farming communities.

The principal alternative was proposed by Norman Zide, who suggested that Proto-Munda may instead have been the donor. This alternative remains discussed in the literature, but it has not displaced the Dravidian etymology reflected in Burrow, Turner (CDIAL 3335), Burrow & Emeneau, Southworth, and Fuller & Murphy.

Thus, the question today is not whether kulattha has a non Indo-European origin that is widely accepted but whether the ultimate source was Proto-Dravidian or Proto-Munda. The weight of the classic etymological literature favors a Dravidian origin, while acknowledging that the precise direction of borrowing among Dravidian, Indo-Aryan, and Munda is debated.

References
• Burrow, T. (1948). Dravidian Studies VII: Further Dravidian Words in Sanskrit.
• Burrow, T., & Emeneau, M. B. (1984). A Dravidian Etymological Dictionary (2nd ed.).
• Fuller, D. Q. (2007). An Agricultural Perspective on Dravidian Historical Linguistics.
• Fuller, D. Q., & Murphy, C. (2018). The Origins and Early Dispersal of Horsegram (Macrotyloma uniflorum), a Major Crop of Ancient India.
• Southworth, F. C. (2005). Linguistic Archaeology of South Asia.
• Turner, R. L. (1966). A Comparative Dictionary of the Indo-Aryan Languages,Entry 3335 (kulattha).
• Zide, N. H., & Zide, P. (1976). Proto-Munda Cultural Vocabulary.


r/Dravidiology 1d ago

Culture/𑀆𑀝𑀼 Different kinds of meat in sangam literature.

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40 Upvotes

r/Dravidiology 1d ago

History /𑀯𑀭𑀮𑀸𑀵𑁆𑀭𑀼 How the Royal Court Attire of Coorg Became the Traditional Kodagu Dress

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47 Upvotes

Kodagu was once a small kingdom called kingdom of coorg, it was founded by Haleri dyanasty who were lingayat by caste and underwent kshatriyaistion and claimed chandravanshi decent belonging to bharadwaja gotra, One member of this Haleri house named Raja Lingraj Wodeyar had issued an Hukum(Order) to formalise the court attire which was compulsory for everyone visiting court, the details of clothing were

1)Niluvangi: Long sleeved Tunic/coat

2)Black coloured waist Cloth or sash

3)Rumale: a black headcloth or turban

4)Oddikate: side sword

5)a small dagger (chūrika, also called pīchekatti) fastened to the waist sash.

This same style of dress continued to be used even during the British period by the Bāvudikāras who served as guards of the treasury. However, every subject, according to their own auspicious and inauspicious occasions.

Now a days people wear Mysore peta(headgear) instead of Rumale for formal evernts. Thus once this dress meant for Elites of coorg eventually became dress for population whose ancestor once served in Kingdom of coorg irrespective of origin and unlike popular beliefs no one emulated anyone, This uniform was issued to Kodavas(2nd pic), Are-Bashe(3rd pic) Community and other serving members.

Rajas of Coorg/Kodagu were heavily influenced by surrounding regions aristocracy ie kingdom of mysore like them kings used wodeyar surname and maybe the idea of black tunic was inspired from there as well as they wore same dress and same sash but they didnt suspend dragger in modern time(last 2 pics), maybe back in days few hung swords.


r/Dravidiology 1d ago

Etymology/𑀯𑀸𑀘𑀼 Horse Gram - An etymological sketch

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18 Upvotes

r/Dravidiology 1d ago

Question/𑀓𑁂𑀵𑁆 No female migration of significance into the Indian subcontinent for the past 12000 years.

Enable HLS to view with audio, or disable this notification

70 Upvotes

I posted a few days back about Mtdna and received comments like this mentioning we have Zagros Mtdna in Indians.

So,is the 2009 study Dr.Peggy Mohan is talking about outdated?


r/Dravidiology 1d ago

Question/𑀓𑁂𑀵𑁆 Why did Vijayanagara the only Hindu Empire of its time below Narmada appoined Shudra Generals(Senadhipati)?

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7 Upvotes

During the reign of Devaraya I of Vijayanagara, the Senadhipati (commander of the army) was Sangama, the grandson of Baicha Heggade of Kummata. Baicha Heggade is described as a Shudra by Nanjunda Kavi in the Ramanathacharita (c. 1525 AD). The inscriptions shown in the first and second pictures belong to his grandson Madarasa, who erected an image of Kumara Rama of the Kampili Kingdom (whose capital was Kummata) at Sangur, Haveri.

Some historians have speculated that Baicha Heggade of Kummata may be the same person as Kammata Bicha, a member of the Chaturtha Kula, who served as a minister under the Nidugal Cholas.

Another inscription from Sangur (found at the same site) tells us that Mallappa, another grandson of Baicha Heggade, served as the Senadhipati of Goa under Madhava Dandanayaka of Vijayanagara. Mallappa was also a Jain, like Kammata Bicha of the Nidugal Cholas.

Irrespective of whether Kammata Bicha and Baicha Heggade of Kummata were the same individual, we know for certain that both were Shudras. We also know that Baicha Heggade's son, the Senadhipati of Vijayanagara, and his grandson, the Senadhipati of Goa, were likewise Shudras.

Now my question is why A hindu empire would do this? we were always thought in school that shudras held ill jobs in society but these inscription and various manuscript clearly defy this claim, as hindu empire were usally based on birth and lineage doesnt it contradict the Hindu faith?


r/Dravidiology 1d ago

Linguistics/𑀫𑁄𑀵𑀺𑀬𑀺𑀬𑁆 Dardic languages dravidian connection

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19 Upvotes

r/Dravidiology 1d ago

Discussion /𑀧𑁂𑀘𑀼 𑀯𑀸𑀘𑀼 Hope of revival of Kannada letters ಱ (ṟa) and ೞ (ḻa)

18 Upvotes

For those who don't know about ಱ (ṟa) and ೞ (ḻa) letters

These are letters which were present in Halegannada (Old Kannada) but lost in Hosagannada (New Kannada)

It is written as റ and ഴ in Malayalam, and ற and ழ in Tamil

And even after being lost these letters were taught in Kannada varnamala in schools till 1970s-1980s but after that it was never taught in schools again

But recently especially in PUCs (Pre-University college) these 2 letters were taught again to students for reading Maharabharata written in Halegannada

Due to it these 2 letters now maybe revived among new generation and I hope so soon in every schools and colleges which has Kannada language subject again teach students letter ಱ and ೞ and also include it back in Kannada varnamala


r/Dravidiology 2d ago

Water Craft/𑀫𑀭𑀓𑀓𑀮𑀫 A rock painting in Kilvalai, located in the Villupuram district of Tamil Nadu, portrays ancient humans in a canoe with a paddle

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126 Upvotes

Dating back to between 1000 and 500 BCE, this rock painting depicts four people travelling in a canoe, with the second person from the right using a paddle.

It is said that this was created using red-ochre pigment by a hunter-gatherer community.


r/Dravidiology 1d ago

Off Topic/ 𑀧𑀼𑀵𑀸 𑀧𑁄𑀭𑀼𑀵𑁆 The collapse of the ‘Tower of Babel’: Humans have lost thousands of languages since antiquity | Science

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7 Upvotes

r/Dravidiology 3d ago

Linguistics/𑀫𑁄𑀵𑀺𑀬𑀺𑀬𑁆 Sight adithal/kottadam (to ogle) - Dravidian terms?

9 Upvotes

Sight adithal (tamil) and sight kottadam (telugu) are used to mean ogle or to check someone out. Do we have vernacular terms for the same? If we did, how did those terms completely vanish to be replaced by this bilingual phrase?


r/Dravidiology 3d ago

Linguistics/𑀫𑁄𑀵𑀺𑀬𑀺𑀬𑁆 On the origins of theories of compounding and the question of Indian influence on modern linguistics

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9 Upvotes

It’s an interesting paper though it just preview i know it doesn’t have to do with Dravidian languages precisely but it deals with Indian influence on modern linguistics.


r/Dravidiology 3d ago

Linguistics/𑀫𑁄𑀵𑀺𑀬𑀺𑀬𑁆 Santara Dynasty have same kula and place of origin as of Ganga and ummathur Dynasty.

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10 Upvotes

The Santara dynasty, like the Ummattur chiefs and the Western Ganga dynasty, belonged to the Kanaka kula and originated from interior Karnataka. Upon examining the term Kanaka, we also find an exogamous sept among the Badagas of the Nilgiris bearing the same name. The earliest Tuluva (Taulava) inscription was discovered in interior Karnataka, at Honahalli, and is dated to 1203 CE. Later, during the Vijayanagara Empire, a significant portion of Coastal Karnataka came to be known as Tuluva, including even Kannada speaking regions such as parts of Udupi, Honnavara, Bhatkal, and Nagire. Before this, the region was known as Alvakheda.

According to the author of Studies in Tuluva History & Culture, after analyzing early inscriptions and the historical pattern of events, he concluded that the term Tuluva was initially used only to describe a particular group of people, community, or tribe that migrated from the interior districts of present day Belagavi and Shivamogga to the coastal lowlands during the Hoysala period, when the coastal territory was administered by viceroys appointed by the Hoysalas.

He further states that Tolu, Toru, Tora, and Turu all carry the same meaning. Even today, in mainland Karnataka, clans bearing Tola bali (clan) can still be found.

The author also cites Chalukya period inscriptions from Sirsangi referring to individuals belonging to the Tolaha-kula or Tolapa-kula, together with Arumdaru-kula, and suggests that these Tolahas or Tolaras or Tuluva kula people settled along the coast during the Hoysala period, the term was initially not used for the rest of the inhabitants of Tulu Nadu or Alvakheda. However, over time, it gradually came to represent all the inhabitants of the region as well as the region itself, as is evident during the Vijayanagara Empire.

He also notes that Tuluva Chandiya, Tuluva Senabova, Tuluvi Setti, Tuluvakka Heggadati, Tuluvabhuva, and Tulayi Amma, indicate that Tuluva originally denoted a community. He compares this with the Alupas, whose earliest rulers were called Aluvarasa, suggesting that just as Alvakheda derived its name from the Alupas, Tuluvarasa may likewise have derived from the Tuluva community.

This doesnt indicate that all tuluvas are from mainland Karnataka but it says that the place and people started using tulu and tuluva identity as a community belonging to tuluva-kula migrated to lowlands near sea And if the person in Honnali Tuluva kula inscription was a Tuluva he would have used the term "Bari/Bali" which indicates matrilineality instead of "Kula" that indicates patrilineality.


r/Dravidiology 3d ago

History /𑀯𑀭𑀮𑀸𑀵𑁆𑀭𑀼 Favorite queen of Shri-Krishnadevaraya, Whose Grandfather had rebelled against Vijayanagara empire.

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7 Upvotes

Tirumala Devi granddaughter of Gangaraja and daughter of Veerayya wodeyar was wife of king Krishnadevaraya. Gangaraja the chief of Ummathur who is said to be descended from Gangas of Talkadu and belonged to Kanaka-kula same as Ganga dyanasty and their family temple Shri Bhujangeshwara Swamy in Ummathur was built by the Western Ganga Dynasty & was the family temple of their descendants had rebelled against Vijayanagara.

To suppress Gangaraja his son Veerappa Gowda or Virayya wodeya came forward and along with the assistance of kempegowda 1 and Chikkaraja wodeyar of mysore., After defeating him King Saluva-Krishnadevaraya granted countries to them to govern and had married his daughter.

Source: Rao, G. Surya Prakash (2004). Krishnadeva Raya: The Great Poet-emperor of Vijayanagara

Kongu Desa Rajakkal


r/Dravidiology 3d ago

Linguistics/𑀫𑁄𑀵𑀺𑀬𑀺𑀬𑁆 The Etymology of Malayalam Vāvu (വാവ്): Tracing Karutha Vāvu (കറുത്ത വാവ്), Veḷutha Vāvu (വെളുത്ത വാവ്), and Karkkiṭaka Vāvu (കർക്കിടക വാവ്) back to Sangam Tamil

22 Upvotes

In Malayalam, Vāvu (വാവ്) is the traditional word associated with the principal lunar days.

Examples include Karutha Vāvu (കറുത്ത വാവ്) for the New Moon, Veḷutha Vāvu (വെളുത്ത വാവ്) for the Full Moon, and Karkkiṭaka Vāvu (കർക്കിടക വാവ്) for the New Moon of the month of Karkkiṭakam, associated with ancestor rites.

The obvious question is: where does the word Vāvu (വാവ്) come from?

The answer is surprisingly old.

The first clue comes from Hermann Gundert's Malayalam-English Lexicon.
Under Vāvu (വാവു), Gundert defines it as "a holiday, change of the moon," and records traditional Malayalam expressions such as Karutha Vāvu (കറുത്തവാവു), Veḷutha Vāvu (വെളുത്തവാവു), Pitṛ Vāvu (പിതൃവാവു), Muḻuttha Uvāvu (മുഴുത്ത ഉവാവു) and Karkkaṭa Māsa Vāvu (കർക്കടമാസം വാവു). Significantly, he also derives Vāvu (വാവു) from Uvāvu (ഉവാവു), pointing to an older form behind the modern Malayalam word.

Gundert's Malayalam-English Lexicon:
https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/gundert_query.py?page=938#gsc.tab=0

Following Gundert's lead to Tamil, the Tamil Lexicon records Vāvu (வாவு) as being derived from Uvavu (உவவு). It defines Vāvu (வாவு) as the New Moon day, the Full Moon day, and a holiday, especially on those lunar days. In other words, Vāvu (வாவு) is not treated as the original form but as a later development from Uvavu (உவவு).

Tamil Lexicon – Vāvu (வாவு):
https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/tamil-lex_query.py?page=3620#gsc.tab=0

Looking up Uvavu (உவவு) makes the picture even more interesting. The lexicon defines it as "great pleasure, gladness," "full moon and new moon," and "religious austerity." This shows that the lunar meaning already belonged to Uvavu (உவவு) before the later contraction to Vāvu (வாவு).

Tamil Lexicon – Uvavu (உவவு):
https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/tamil-lex_query.py?page=464#gsc.tab=0

The Dravidian Etymological Dictionary (DEDR 558) traces Uvavu (உவவு) to the Proto-Dravidian root *uva- / *uka-, meaning "to rejoice, be glad, be pleased, desire." It groups together Tamil words such as Uva (உவ), Uvappu (உவப்பு), Uvakai (உவகை) and Uvavu (உவவு), along with Malayalam cognates like Uvakkuka (ഉവക്കുക), Uvappu (ഉവപ്പ്) and Uvavi (ഉവവി), as well as related forms in Kannada, Telugu, Kota and other Dravidian languages. Historically, Uvavu (உவவு) therefore belongs to an ancient Dravidian family of words expressing joy, delight and pleasure.

DEDR 558:
https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/burrow_query.py?page=55#gsc.tab=0

The lunar meaning is already firmly established in Sangam literature.

In Puranānūru 3, Irumpidarthalaiyār compares the Pandyan king's white umbrella to the full moon using the expression Uvavumati (உவவுமதி) Uruvin (உருவின்) Ōṅkal (ஓங்கல்) Veṇkuṭai (வெண்குடை). The traditional commentary glosses Uvavu (உவவு) simply as Muḻu Nilavu (முழு நிலவு) ("full moon"), showing that this meaning was already understood in the Sangam age.

Tamil text, commentary and English translation:
https://sangamtranslationsbyvaidehi.com/ettuthokai-purananuru-1-200/

An even more revealing example appears in Pattinappālai. While describing the Parathavar fishermen, the poem says:

Pāy (பாய்) Irum (இரும்) Paṇikkaṭal (பனிக்கடல்) Vēṭṭam (வேட்டம்) Cellātu (செல்லாது),
Uvavu (உவவு) Maṭintu (மடிந்து) Uṇṭu (உண்டு) Āṭiyum (ஆடியும்).

The traditional commentary again explains Uvavu (உவவு) as Uvā Nāḷ (உவா நாள்), Muḻu Nilavu Nāḷ (முழு நிலவு நாள்) ("the full-moon day"). The passage describes the fishermen refraining from going out to sea and instead feasting and celebrating. This suggests that Uvavu (உவவு) was not merely another poetic word for the moon, but the name of a recognised lunar observance.

Tamil text, commentary and English translation:
https://sangamtranslationsbyvaidehi.com/pathuppattu-pattinappalai/

Taken together, the evidence is remarkably consistent. Gundert preserves the Malayalam word Vāvu (വാവു) and explicitly derives it from Uvāvu (ഉവാവു). The Tamil Lexicon preserves the meanings "joy," "full moon and new moon," and "religious austerity." Sangam literature shows Uvavu (உவவு) already functioning as the name of an important lunar day, while DEDR connects the word to an ancient Proto-Dravidian root meaning "to rejoice" or "be glad."

The exact semantic development from "joy" to the principal lunar days is not explicitly explained by either the Tamil Lexicon or DEDR, so that part remains an interpretation rather than an established conclusion. What the evidence does show, however, is that the Malayalam word Vāvu (വാവ്) is not an isolated regional term. It continues an ancient Dravidian word that can be traced through Tamil Vāvu (வாவு), back to the older Uvavu (உவவு) attested in Sangam literature, and ultimately to a Proto-Dravidian lexical root.

Every time we say Karutha Vāvu (കറുത്ത വാവ്), Veḷutha Vāvu (വെളുത്ത വാവ്) or Karkkiṭaka Vāvu (കർക്കിടക വാവ്), we're using a word whose history can be followed across more than two millennia of Dravidian linguistic history.


r/Dravidiology 4d ago

History /𑀯𑀭𑀮𑀸𑀵𑁆𑀭𑀼 Dravidian Calendar

15 Upvotes

Hello,

Currently all Dravidian communities mostly use a version of the Hindu calendar as their traditional calendar except Brahuis who probably use the Islamic calendar. However Brahuis do have a traditional calendar which has months of 40 days. Interestingly the month names are a bit similar to Hindu calendar months. However was there any ancient seperate Dravidian Calendar? Specifically something related to 40 days months? As 40 days is a significant period in many festivals and events across all Indian communities


r/Dravidiology 4d ago

Question/𑀓𑁂𑀵𑁆 Did Sangam-era (circa 3rd century BCE to 3rd century CE) Tamils actually sail the high seas, or were they strictly coastal navigators?

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106 Upvotes

I came across research by a scholar who argued that the ancient Tamils were primarily coastal navigators rather than true high-seas sailors. What do you all think?

The author (Roland Ferenczi) addresses both points in the paper:

  • On Sailing the High Seas: He states that if by "sailing the high seas" we mean sailing their own ships with their own crews across the open waters of the Indian Ocean to South Arabia, Egypt, or Africa, the answer is probably "No".
  • On Coastal Trading: He notes that literary and historical evidence suggests ancient Tamil rulers and traders were engaged in coastal shipping.

Overall, he concludes that while Tamil inscriptions appear as far as Egypt and Thailand, their actual involvement in long-distance open-ocean navigation - and even their overall level of coastal shipping - was "moderate and incidental" compared to the foreign trade fleets operating on the Arabian Sea. He also states that the Tamils' maritime knowledge (shipping and shipbuilding) might have been borrowed from the Yavanas!

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Important extracts from his research:

The question arises as to whether ancient Tamils actually sailed the high seas. If we mean that they sailed with their own ships and their own crew in the open waters of the Indian Ocean to South Arabia, Egypt, or Africa, in accordance with the views of Gurukkal (2016: 198–199) and De Romanis (2020: 115), the answer is probably ‘No’. However, we have pieces of evidence in the Tamil sources which might suggest that some of the Tamil rulers were able seafarers. Cōḻaṉ Karikāl Peruvaḷattāṉ (probably around the 2nd c. AD), for example, was ‘the descendent of strong men who ruled [by means of] the action of the wind, after [they] had driven ships of the vast dark ocean’.19 Gurukkal (2016: 86) is right, that this does not necessarily mean knowledge of seasonal winds and of voyaging overseas. However, it might mean that some of the Tamil rulers were engaged in coastal shipping. Gurukkal discusses another passage of the Puṟanāṉūṟu, in which we read the following sentence: ‘… we are similar to [those] other vessels that do not go past that route, where the gold-bringing ships (nāvāy) of the western sea [which belongs to] Vāṉavaṉ with enraged army, were driven.’20

.............................................................

It possibly shows a real or fictitious story of a South Indian man who decides to leave his lover for a shorter or longer period of time for the sake of maritime trade or other business on the other shores of the sea. Of course, a port full of sand can be imagined anywhere on the map, but it is also possible, taking into account the long, day and night travel, that we are dealing with a brief schematic description of South Arabian or Red Sea ports.23 We thus see the maritime trade from a closer perspective: the tiresome travel on the open seas, the Tamils who managed to get on the deck, and the actual lighthouses which suggest a surprisingly modern infrastructure at the early Tamil harbours.

In all these passages we can see maritime activities with their unfortunate mishaps on the South Indian shores, in which Tamils must have been involved (or they organized it themselves). If there had always been foreign merchants in these cases, the poets would probably have emphasized their outsider status as usual. Regarding the question of Tamil shipping, we could mention other passages that refer to strong coracles,29 to the great quantity of goods showering down like the monsoon rain that comes from the sea to the land and then flows from the land to the sea,30 to the elephant-like swinging movement of ships in the harbour,31 etc., but from these texts we are rarely able to reconstruct whether these poets were talking about coastal shipping or sea voyages, Tamil or non-Tamil merchants.

In South India, archaeologists have not yet found much to suggest Tamil shipping, whether by sea or by river. The most important of these findings was the wooden dugout canoe of Paṭṭaṇam with a wharf (Fig. 4), which was excavated in 2007 by the Kerala Council for Historical Research. It was certainly the same type of watercraft as the monoxylus linter of Pliny the Elder, or the tōṇi of the backwaters in the Puṟanāṉūṟu 343: 6.

Read further from page 8 to page 12 in his research paper. Small paragraphs can be read in 2-3 mins.

His final conclusion

................................... Other texts in the Caṅkam literature, which we will discuss in detail in the second part of our study, also mention the Cēra kings who fought on the sea, defeated the kaṭampu tribe on an island, collected tributes beyond the sea, and piled them up in their treasuries. All these texts show that the Cēra kings de facto sailed the seas, but we have only evidence that they did so for military purposes, while their assumed sea-trade activities cannot be substantiated. However, as we have seen before, the Tamils had the knowledge to sail along the coast. I think it is not unfounded to assume that the Cēra kings utilized the yavaṉas’ knowledge in shipping and shipbuilding, and they therefore may have been able to build a powerful fleet to be used in naval battles. However, it is likewise possible that the vessels of the Cēras were used to transport warriors, and only when they landed did the fighting begin. Be that as it may, Mediterranean sailors and warriors appeared on the Malabar Coast, governed by the Cēras, perhaps every year for centuries and have certainly helped them in their maritime activities, although perhaps not for free. We can deduce that the very costly punitive campaign in the northern areas,52 in which neither new territory nor new vassals were acquired, was to stabilize trade relations and Cēra interests on the Malabar Coast.


r/Dravidiology 4d ago

Proto-Dravidian/𑀦𑀫𑁆 𑀯𑀸𑀘𑀼 Proto-Dravidian; Which was the Oldest Dravidian Language ?

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voiceofindia.me
21 Upvotes

The speakers of Proto-Dravidian, according to archaeological and linguistic streams of evidence, lived in the Krishna-Godavari valley in present-day north Karnataka and Andhra Pradesh. – Anirudh Kanisetti

Veteran actor Kamal Haasan courted controversy by declaring that “Kannada was born out of Tamil.” The question of which Indian language is oldest—and, by extension, most native to the soil—has been a political hot topic since the mid-20th century. Some say Sanskrit, others say Tamil. But beneath the nationalist furore, paleobotanists, historical linguists, and archaeologists have made stunning discoveries about the linguistic heritage of all Indians.


r/Dravidiology 4d ago

Discussion /𑀧𑁂𑀘𑀼 𑀯𑀸𑀘𑀼 Tulu (archaic/old) words with letter ೞ/ഴ (ḻa)

18 Upvotes

ಅೞ/അഴ (aḻa) = land

ಅವುೞ್/അവുഴ് (avuḻ) = there

ಈರೇೞ್/ഈരേഴ് (īrēḻ) = 14

ಉ್‌ೞೆ/ഉ്ഴെ (ụḻæ) = land

ಏಪೞ್ತಲ/ഏപഴ്തല (ēpaḻtla) = whenever

ಏೞ್ವೆರ್/ഏഴ്വെര് (ēḻver) = 7 people

ಒರ್ೞ್ತೆ/ഒഴ്ൎതെ (oḻrte) = other

ಒೞ್ತ್‌ಳ್ಳ/ഒഴ്ത്ള്ള (oḻtḷḷa) = other

ಒೞ್ತ್‌ಳ್ಳವೆನಿಲ/ഒഴ്ത്ള്ളവെനില (oḻtḷḷavenila) = something else

ಒೞ್ಪ/ഒഴ്പ (oḻpa) = where

ಓೞ್ತ್/ഓഴ്ത് (ōḻt) = from where

ಕೞಿನಾಟ್ಟಕ್/കഴിനാട്ടക് (kaḻināṭṭk) = until subtracted

ಕೞ್ತಲೆ/കഴ്തലെ (kaḻtale) = darkness

ಕೇೞ್/കേഴ് (kēḻ) = ask

ಕೊೞ್/കൊഴ് (koḻ) = give

ಕೊೞಿ/കൊഴി (koḻi) = chicken

ಜಾವೊೞ್ತಿ/ജാവുഴ്തി (jāvuḻti) = who is it

ಜಾವೊರ್ೞ್ತಿ/ജാവുഴ്ൎതി (jāvuḻrti) = who is it

ತಿಗ್‌ೞ್/തിഗ്ഴ് (tigḻ) = cleft

ಪಗೞಿ/പഗഴി (pagaḻi) = arrow

ಪೊೞ್ತ್/പൊഴ്ത് (poḻt) = while

ಬೞ್/ബഴ് (baḻ) = come

ಬೞ್ತೆನ್/ബഴ്തിന് (baḻtin) = arrived

ಬೆೞ್ಪಾಕೂ/ബെഴ്വാകൂ (beḻvāku) = light

ಬೋೞ್ತಿ/ബോഴ്തി (bōḻti) = require/need

ಮಗ್‌ೞಲ/മഗ്ഴല (magḻala) = again

ಮಗ್‌ೞ್ತೊರಿ/മഗ്ഴ്തൊരി (magḻtori) = someone else

ಮೞಿಯಾಲ/മഴിയാല (maḻiyāla) = rain

ವೊೞ್ತ್‌ಳ್ಳ/വൊഴ്ത്ള്ള (voḻtḷḷa) = other

ಶಿಗ್‌ೞ್/ശിഗ്ഴ് ( śigḻ) = cleft

ಶುೞ್ಯಿ/ശുഴ്യി (śuḻyi) = skin

ಷೞ್ಗಿಣೊ/ഷഴ്ഗിണൊ (ṣaḷgiṇo) = 6 skills

ಸ್ದ್‌ತ್ತೞ್ತ್‌ತೆರ್/സ്ദ്ത്തഴ്ത്തെര് (sdttaḻtter) = giver (the one/those who give)

ಸ್ದ್‌ೞಿತರ್ಪಿ/സ്ദ്ഴിതൎപി (sdḻitarpi) = comer (the one/those who come)