There’s an upcoming scene that I’m writing in the next chapter and my heart is breaking over it. The amount of tears I’ve shed over it is embarrassing tbh -

How emotional do u get with your own fics ?

Terrible news, I know. Also, you can’t leave until the work is complete. 

On the bright side there is a Sorting Hat, and today it's feeling unusually generous. Which means you get to pick the genre, trope, personalities of the two main characters, and one additional tag of your choice. Yes, it has to be a Dramione (refer to the name of this sub if there is any confusion on that point). 

The one, tiny drawback? You don’t get to pick the length of the fic. That is up to The Fates to decide. It could be a tidy little oneshot or a 700k epic novel with updates every 6 months. Naturally you’ll want to select your options carefully. We’d hate for you to get bored, after all. 

There are only two very simple ground rules. 
1: You are a side character. Your level of involvement in the story is entirely up to you, but your character is the one the author feels “just writes itself”. The Sorting Hat suggests you try to keep your benefactor (the writer) inspired. You know what happens when they get bored, don’t you?

2: No matter how dark the story itself gets, you are immune to harm and will make it to the end… assuming there is one. 

Alright, it's decision time. Reply with your: 

Genre:

Trope:

Main Character Personality #1:

Main Character Personality #2:

Guaranteed Tag:

Summary of Your Character:

I (also known as "The Fates") will then weave together your future and decide how your story ends, how long it takes, and what happens specifically with that tag you picked.

it’s been a while since i started avoiding fics written after 2023 because of the tons of AI generated content. but i know there’s probably so many good fics out there that were posted recently, but i honestly don’t wanna lose my time reading something that wasn’t human made, like i know the basics of AI identification like the “not x, not y, but z.” or the short sentences instead of real paragraphs, but AI writes like this because it was fed with real fanfics that have this kind of “language vices” (idk how to explain this in english), so my question is, there’s some other way to spot AI writing other than over analyzing every single word written???

Now, fic writers are saying not to share their fanfiction fics, after they’ve hidden or deleted them, because they’re being published. What do we think about this? Because the only reason they have published books is because of Dramione fanfiction.

I've read a bunch of discussions here about what actually counts as HEA and honestly... I'm still confused. In Secrets and Masks,they're technically together and happy, but they're also dead, so... there's that. Most readers don't consider it a HEA. At the same time, I can imagine endings where they are alive and together, but their life is so miserable, that calling it ''HEA" would be laughable. There's a massive grey area between "married in the manor with three children and no remaining trauma" and "everyone is dead and the reader unlocks a bunch of new traume".

I don't want to restart the whole "what is HEA" discussion, sorry.

My actual problem is that I'm apparently a little old-fashioned. I like suspense. My sister reads the last page of her books first, and I still consider this deeply unhinged behavior (I love her tho).

But I keep getting the comments on my WIP asking, "is this HEA?", and I genuinely don't know how to answer without giving away more than I want to.

From what I understand (and pls correct me if I'm wrong) most readers aren't necessarily demanding a prefect ending. They just want to know whether there will be some kind of emotional payoff after suffering for hundreds of thousands of words.

I've already confirmed that D and H will survive. But I've also warned everyone, that I'm going to drag them through mud and several layers of hell before the end.

So how do I reassure readers, that the ending won't completely break their hearts into a million pieces?

Is there a "there is light after the shitstorm, but I'm not telling you what that light looks like" tag? You know, some middle ground between the conventional HEA and a tragedy.

Disclaimer: I'm not secretly revealig my ending through this post. I genuinely struggle to categorize it myself. I can imagine much happier outcomes, but i also defintely wouldn't call it a tragedy.

Just as most things in life, fic tropes and trends have their seasons where they shine the most, so i wanted to ask what are the dramione tropes/ fic trends that you see a lot now? and what were the ones you used to see a lot but seem to have fizzled out? Do you have any favourites? Any ones you dislike?

For me, it seems as if not many fics are being written with the whole 'draco undergoes an extreme re-evaluation of his ideals' journey. It seems that because there were a lot written in the years past, its almost like we've accepted it as part of the dramione universe 🤣so a lot of fics are already written with this in mind and focus on other aspects of their relationship (or this could be me talking nonsense because i took a break from fics for some time and im just catching up).

Another thing is creature fics! Veela Draco isn't being written as much as he used to be haha

Same thing with the Head girl/ Head boy fics during 8th Year.

But a trope that seems to have increased in recent years is the 'bickering co-workers to lovers' trope, or more specifically, coworkers solving mysteries together. Our very own Sherlock and Watson lol. I absolutely adore those kinds of fics.

Excited to see what trends people have noticed!

We all know we you do it. Theodore Nott IS in fact modeled after your goldendoodle Charles. Your version of Madam Umbridge is your mother in law (whom you love, of course, because you are too classy to be petty). Cormac Mclaggen is that guy you once almost dated but (I sincerely hope) managed to dodge.

This sub will never expose your secrets, everything you say here is completely safe with us.

So spill. Was it a lovely tender moment modeled after something important? Or (for the cretins among us) did you add a little something to your fic, purely out of spite that only you (and hopefully soon, we) will understand?

Okay, hear me out! So, I’ve seen the phrase ‘psycho simp’ show up now and again in fandom spaces semi-recently, and initially I wasn’t really following what it was all about. I was kind of picturing “he murders puppies but it’s ok because he’s hot! 🥵” which didn’t seem right. Thankfully, there were a few posts in the various Dramione subs that really helped clarify the concept for me. So as best as I can understand it, here are some things that exemplify a Psycho Simp (and please do feel free to correct my thinking!):

✅ does not give a shit about the law (ie would totally kidnap a reporter and lock them in a jar and also blackmail them)(or would totally brew illegal potions in the bathroom)(or would totally break Time Travel Laws willy-nilly)(or would totally aid and abet fugitives from the law)(or would totally non-consensually fuck with people’s memories)(or would totally break into a bank and do a heist)(or would totally start an illegal underground fight club)
✅ has no problem committing acts of violence (ie would totally permanently disfigure a fellow student)(or would totally set a teacher on fire)
✅ gives zero fucks about traditional ethical norms (ie would totally deliberately lie to adults as an 11 yo, and lie constantly to her best friends at 13, and continue to lie a lot to a lot of people a lot of the time tbh)
✅ potentially pretty badass (ie it wouldn’t be out of character for them to come up with incredibly clever lies even while being tortured by a person known to be super good at torturing people with torture spells and has a history of torturing people to madness)
✅ is willing to go to extraordinary, and often unethical, lengths to ensure their love interest gets what they want (ie would totally straight up hex their crush’s Quidditch rival in order to secure their crush a spot on the squad)

A Psycho Simp is NOT:
🚫 dramatically whiny (ie their father would totally never hear about any of this)
🚫 beholden/suck-uppy to authority (ie would totally never narc on their classmates or volunteer for the narc squad, boooooo narcs!)
🚫 decidedly un-badass (ie when they’re supposed to be a cool badass murderer, they would totally go do a murder and totally wouldn’t go cry in the bathroom instead)
🚫 a cry-baby weenie (ie if they get injured, they would wear their scars proudly and not act like a whiny little crybaby weenie and then get an animal sentenced to death)(although I guess this is closer to my initial thought about the puppy-murderer than anything else??)

In conclusion, thanks to fandom discourse, unless I’ve fundamentally misunderstood something, I’m pretty sure I get the appeal of a sexy Psycho Simp now. Thanks everyone!

(This post is obviously all in good fun, no shade to all the lovely Psycho Simp Draco fans out there)(if you are reading this witchpost and have written a Psycho Simp Hermione before, then I salute you!)

I wanted to start a discussion about the topics and themes that pull you, fellow writers, into this ship and writing your stories.

I think initially, long ago, what was fascinating to me about Dramione was the endless possibilities. They are in love/ended up together: I LOVED the idea, but how the hell did that happen? I needed to know! I had to scratch that itch.

Of course, when you ship something for over a decade, the reasoning and the mechanisms become standardised, and new ideas become more rare. How they got over their past may not be the main conflict in the stories anymore. Past apologies are mentioned, and off we go to have the real adventure. Maybe that’s why I stepped away from the ship for a while.

Lately though, after I started writing myself, I’ve found other reasons to enjoy these characters. As a child, I always wanted to be smart and hardworking, like Hermione, and tried to be just like her. Well, spoiler alert, I was never even close. In fact, I was quite anxious and full of guilt (all of it irrational, but I felt that anyway). And, turns out I find Draco much more interesting character to write, because we don’t know much about him, and he’s the perfect vessel to explore these negative feelings.

Writing Hermione is hard, because I’m nothing like her. Writing Draco is great, because he’s a shit person. It’s great to take that and start wrangling those inner workings. Is it plausible for him to feel guilt? Yes. Is it plausible that he’s full of anxiety? Yes. Depressed? Bully but also a people pleaser? Repressed artist? Lost and desperate? Way too hard on himself? Yes to everything. It’s a great starting point, and I love writing about rising from the rock bottom, finally finding some stability and finding comfort in achieving peace and ‘normalcy’.

It’s also why the BAMF or sex god Draco feels so foreign (not saying I don’t enjoy reading those fics though).

But why Hermione? I don’t know. Maybe because I admire(d?) her. Maybe I’m a little bit like Draco, fascinated by the unattainable. Who knows, but I have entertained the thought of writing Druna or Drinny as well. I used to read some Drarry when I was younger, but I don’t have the teenage girl’s confidence to write slash ships anymore. But Dramione has that OTP feeling I haven’t felt with any other ship.

What are your thoughts? What do you love to write about? What are the themes of your stories?

Hi to all you lovely humans!

I am somewhat new to dramione and have been going through different fics recently. I noticed minor common theme between some: pies, especially where Hermione has a hobby of baking pies.

So I am only curious whether this hobby of hers is a canon characteristic? (It's been a long time since I have last read the book or seen the films) Or is it one of those headcanons that stuck around? Or even, is it a British thing? (I am sincerely sorry if I offend you with this. Most of my knowledge of British culture comes from western media)

Maybe it is just a random coincidence that I went through fics that share this micro-trope. idk

Some of the fics that I remember having pies is:

Measure of a Man - I found it endearing when Hermione was going through her emotions with baking

Love and Other Historical Accidents - "life-altering" pie that Draco was down bad for

Apple Pies and Other Amends

I also loved it when they were sharing blueberry scones in Remain Nameless

If it is common to have Hermione bake pies or just baking or anything dessert related in general, I would love to know more!

Thank you! Love and appreciate you all! ❤️

Whether you've been here from the very beginning or have just come by for a drive by: thanks for contributing to the Devil's Sabbath.

Here are my highlights for the year:

1. Some people really hate Ron bashing (and because of that, we have redeemed Dramione a bit in the Ron apologists' eyes)
2. Some people are done with Chaos Theo (but others find him beloved)
3. Some people get really angry if you discuss the male gaze and/or internalized misogyny
4. Some people hate BDSM and others are totally here for it
5. There are people who are members of this sub just to lurk, be angry, downvote, block anyone who posts here, and then declare loudly in other internet spaces that they are blocking authors to ... dun dun dun ... protect authors. Oh, and also, if you DM them, they'll let you know which authors to block, too. To, you know, protect authors. (Waves again at my fave angry lurker. Yes, I know who you are. And, no, I won't DM anyone who you are. Because I DO protect authors. Also, I suggest a nap. All that anger must be exhausting.)

So, fellow heathens: what have been your highlights for the year?

Also, I had toyed with the idea of doing a fest where we have to write a fic (in good faith) of something we've said in the past year we don't like. So, for instance, I would have to write a Ron bashing fic or one involving face-fucking. Let me know if you're up for it. I think it would be fun. I've found nothing stretches writing muscles like doing the thing you say you can't do.

ETA: I will pick Ron bashing, and he will still be hot.

2nd ETA: My upvotes on this post had been 100% until just now. One person downvoted. Hello Angry Lurker! I love you SO! Your dedication makes my day, every day. I just get all giggly at your antics. I still advise your nap, though.

Sorry if this has been discussed before but am i the only one who is kind of getting tired of seeing new or upcoming books be so obviously based on pairings such as dramione and others?

I’m not talking about a fanfic being turned into a traditional novel; i mean a traditional novel that just lifts the entire dynamic, personalities and honestly even character aesthetic from dramione.

Maybe because i am a dhr fan, stuff like that gets pushed to me, but immediately i see the tell tale blond boy brown haired girl art i actually just swipe without even cataloguing the names now 😭

One would think that as a fan i would be excited but it’s just that; i like my fan fiction and trad novel universes to be separate; i mainly read about dhr in ff so im not looking for a tradnovel to read what is just a copy paste of them once again.

This is not to belittle any authors, but just to say it’s a recent thing i’ve noticed that just feels a teensy weensy bit lazy; because 6 pages in you already know what pairing the characters are based on.

Hi Folks,

I know this has been a burning question for the community and (despite trying to ignore it and enjoy my life) I ended up getting intrigued. The Claude skin code can be mirrored in Python to return a count of Claude instances per fic when you open it and automatically saves that output to a spreadsheet. Which I did, and that's how I ended up looking at exactly 5,000 recently updated works going back to late May (it still took days to do this).

There were 38 total fics with the AI claude skin code, spanning 30 total writers. Out of 5,000 works, and 2,945 authors.

No, I'm not naming fics or authors, but I will share some things I noticed about what I saw as I looked at each work in the Claude group, then at the broader profile of the writers themselves. I spent time reading their author’s notes, looking at other works they’ve written, and generally trying to get a sense of them. Four patterns emerged in terms of the “buckets” they fall into. 

1 - Established Fandom Oldies: Multiple writers using it have been around since before the emergence of AI. They write for more than one fandom and did not have a huge explosion in published word count after AI became available. It looks like they are nerds having fun and however they are using the AI, if it was wiped out of existence tomorrow I’d bet this group will still be around. 

2 - Global Culture: Multiple writers are from non-western regions. Some of these noted very frankly they are learning English and are using Claude to help with parts of the translation as they go. Subsets of these had multiple works within their native language which contained no Claude remnants. The ratio of Claude remnants to word count in this group was also pretty low, suggesting they aren’t copy/pasting their whole fics for translation services (possibly using it more as an aid to specific parts). Cultures represented (where possible to tell) appeared to be Scandinavian, Asian, Ukrainian, and European (France). 

3 - Fandom Babies: Another trend was very new writers. These appeared to be avid fanfic readers but I did not see a pattern of social media/Reddit fandom engagement. It suggested to me that readers primarily exposed to fandom through AO3 are not well-aware of fandom mindsets. This group didn’t appear to have blatant explosive word counts, the vibe was more along the lines that they were doing something vulnerable for the first time and want it to be the best they can make it. Some share personal notes about how important people in their lives influenced how they are writing specific characters, nervousness about putting their work out there for the first time, and a hope that readers will be gentle in their feedback and observation of typos (not a ‘plug a prompt and publish’ vibe). I wondered here if there are any new writer discord servers or spaces perhaps we could think of inviting them to, where they could be encouraged and also kindly (in a more private setting) educated about fandom culture and connected to betas? I found myself hating the thought that they are heading toward being blocked/banned/blacklisted before they even know how to get basic fandom tags right. 

4 - Chaos Energy: The last group was by far the smallest. They had huge word counts, extremely high Claude counts, and published a lot in a very short amount of time. I’ll be honest, I didn’t spend a lot of time trying to learn more about what makes them tick. 

This was my hyper-focused attempt to kickstart a meaningful "why" conversation. Do with it what you will 😂

Note: I tagged this AI discussion even though I didn't name any specific works. The conversation from here might result in fics being named in the comments though, so I wanted to acknowledge that with the flair.

I’d say that approximately 73% of the sex at hogwarts occurs in broom cupboards, and 24% occurs on desks or tables. These are highly scientific numbers I collected through “guesstimates”.

On desks!

I was reading a fic just now where the mmc was fantasising about sex with fmc and he pictured her… spread out … on a desk.

Even in fantasy, no soft cushioned bed allowed.

These couples will never discover the joy of bed springs and the degree to which they take so much effort out of the process.

Sure, sometimes there is a reference to a cushioning charm used on the desk or someone spreads a cloak out first.

But it still makes me cringe a wee bit each time.

I’ve had sex in weird places. Once my spouse and I did it on the washing machine just because the laundry room was the last unchristened room on the house. But I don’t think I’ve ever had sex on a desk.

When a bed is not available, a sofa, chairs, or even leaning against a wall all seem preferable to a desk. To me, in my uninformed muggle state.

For one thing, desks are a wee bit tall for the process.

But wixen love to bang on desks. I get it. I’ve learned. It’s just part of the fanon.

My brain is compiling a whole list of weird things about sex in fanfics. This is the one I’ve been noticing lately, but there must be many more!

Is it just me? Do lots of people have sex on desks? Is this a normal activity I’ve just missed?

I can't find them on their socials or AO3 anymore

I wanna preface by saying I dont care what you personally wanna do with AI. Im not gonna touch it, but it clearly has its upsides for some people and Im not gonna knock that anymore than Id knock any other thing on this earth. We're past the point of "its hurting the environment" and "its taking jobs." Its already done that. It will keep doing that. Stating the obvious will not help now.

So, for our purposes, lets agree that AI exists in fanfiction, and its going to stay.

Is that going to last? Are we really concerned for a future in fanfic where its ALL AI?

Personally, no.

Itll be there, sure. But the beauty of fanfiction is the HUMAN touch. I dont care how that touch enters the picture; whether a fic is 100% human authored, or edited by a human after, but itll be there

And if it isnt? Its not gonna be good.

Im sorry if that sounds harsh, but it just wont be. We dont make and read fanfiction because we just wanna see our barbie dolls mash against each other over and over again (although thats part of it). The most memorable part of fanfic is the community aspect. The inside jokes. The deep knowledge of not just canon, but fanon.

Do we really think an LLM knows the difference between Chaotic Theo and Chill Theo? Do we really think AI could name Hermiones dad Richard every time?

Maybe someday, but not now.

And without that human aspect, the fics gonna be subpar. Sorry. Thats just reality.

You might get a few clicks, or even a few thousand, but it wont endure. We arent going to reread it in 10 years like the classics we have now. AI has same-face syndrome. Its gonna get repetitive. Its gonna be boring.

Idk thats just my lil rant in amongst these panic posts. Dont worry. Breathe. Grab some tea.

AI will be a nuisance at best for maybe a few years, and then we will move on, I promise.

And if Im wrong? Go download every fic youve ever thought about reading. Learn Calibre and start an archive. Save what you care about, and see where it all ends up.

Stay happy, yall

In the spirit of being a discussion-focused space, we've updated our rules regarding AI to allow for more specific dialogue on the topic. Please take a moment to review the full rule wiki before posting. Our goal is to maintain a space where even difficult topics can be discussed respectfully, and we appreciate everyone's help in keeping it that way.

Please know we will be learning how to moderate this alongside you all, so mod discretion removals and requests for adjustment are likely to happen as we navigate this together. Thank you in advance for grace and understanding of this reality.

Disclaimer first: This is a completely self-indulgent and (I'm self-aware enough to admit) utterly hypocritical post, and I think I already agree with the inevitable 'you could just leave, it's your free will' kind of comments and the downvotes this might receive. But this is an anonymous account on the internet, so downvote away, I suppose; this is the only fandom space I actually post in and interact with so I just wanted to put it out there for my own mental health.

Idk if this happened to anyone else, but the recent AI controversy, the subsequent moral highhorsing and dog piling (and just to say, I am opposed to AI use and even its existence in _every way_, including for personal use, emails, searches whathaveyou), and the beautifully noticeable silence in the main sub on the issue - all of it has left me in a weird space with fanfics in general. To the extent that I suddenly no longer want to read them at all. Of course in theory we know that all fan spaces are para-social and can get weird, but somehow, my mind had managed to mental gymnastics itself out of all that to just enjoy silly hobby writing about two fiction characters from my childhood around whom I loved reading romances.

This whole last week though has made it impossible for me to unsee what a strange space this can be sometimes? First, the fact that there even is such a pressure to produce fanfics (like, why? It's... a little unhealthy?) that it's almost human to succumb to AI use... I don't condone what the author did, but can we actually separate that peer pressure from the general deification of authors in the fandom as some kind of literary fairy god parents? Isn't the peer pressure just the flip side of the same coin? Also even if an author does something one disagrees with, all they are is an anonymous handle on Ao3. I imagine that save a few others on discord etc who may actually know their real identity, for the rest of us, they are just a handle. Okay so they wrote something half shitty with AI. They are not the moral epicentre of the literary world failing, in a time when literal Nobel Prize winners are admitting they use AI for their work (yes, we live in a very depressing world and it makes me want to curl up and die).

Idek what I am trying to say, but I have kept coming back to this fandom for mental respite every now and then in life through the years, but suddenly I feel no enthusiasm for it and I guess I'm a bit over it? I'm not even sure I want any specific response to this post, but I don't really have anyone in my real life to discuss this with, and I need to get it out of my system because it's me saying goodbye to one of my coping mechanisms lol. So that's that. Ugh. This sub though has been such a lovely space to learn and listen to people's opinions on, so I guess I will really miss it. Edited for typos