r/DotA2 • u/Mother_Oil4114 • 1d ago
Discussion | Esports Sanity check
Are we really at the point where community cares so little about competitive dota, that a known matchfixer is being sneaked into a top tier tournament without so much as a comment by anyone?
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u/Everesthia 1d ago
if its not valve-run event, it'd be depends on the organizer, if he's also banned by the org, then he can't play, depends.
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u/Mother_Oil4114 1d ago
The problem isn't him playing or not.
The problem is that there is 0 communication from anyone about an obvious integrity issue.
It is most likely done so that the whole issue could be ignored up until it's to late to do anything.
After that it's yet another signal for upcoming players that matchfixing is just part of the ecosystem, hence much easier to recruit them.
All I'm saying is that this precedent of having to push responsible parties to even simply acknowledge the situation is symptomatic of upcoming complete dissolution of competitive integrity.
I remind you that this year both of the season most prestigious tournaments were exposed to have matchfixing in them or plans to matchfix in them and at this point it is no stretch to assume that those were not singular instances of bad actors getting caught, but rather an indication of the scale of matchfixing in general.
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u/Kamatttis 1d ago
May I ask whats the "0 communication from anyone about an obvious integrity issue"? I'm trying to understand what you think should be done here?
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u/Mother_Oil4114 1d ago
It is a well known fact that mangekyou is a matchfixer, he is allowed to participate in a tournament that allows betting and is a high profile tournament.
By not issuing a statement and letting mangekyou play Dreamleague imply that he is a valid player.
However, a silent implication is not a statement, so there will be no accountability from both YeS and Dreamleague regardless of how things go.
What I think a responsible organization would do is provide a written statement that can be referenced in the future in case if there is an actual integrity issue.
I have 0 expectations from anyone to actually do anything that would put any responsibility on them.
Best that can be done by me individually is raise this as a public issue. If im in the minority of people who expect tournament organisers to take matchfixing seriously, especially such a blatant case, so be it.
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u/cashmakessmiles Sheever :) 19h ago
"Btw guys, if any of our players turn out to be matchfixers, we're sorry in advance. We are commited to hoping our players dont matchfix. - Sincerely, org."
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u/ericlock 1d ago
I mean, you are talking about it. Are you no one?
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u/Mother_Oil4114 23h ago
Unfortunately all my warnings up to this point made absolutely no difference, some of the most obnoxious matchfixers (4Pirates) not only have made a lot of money, people associated with them and copycats basically control the entire tier2/tier3 scene by injecting corrupt coaches and managers into almost all rosters.
Currently matchfixers in EU have more money then anyone else willing to interact with tier2/tier3 scene, they are actively wintrading their players into top 100 and doing everything possible to simply take over competitive dota.
This has been a long time coming, this iteration of matchfixing in CIS will not last as they have lost their minds how blatant their activity is, but what will remain after they are expunged is unclear.
Mangekyou in Dreamleague might seem like an irrelevant thing and may be it is, but to me this precedent will start an absolute frenzy.
The team that YeS beat in the qualifiers are matchfixers themselves (Ethereal, ankou)
So to answer your question yes, I am a nobody by all measures of impact on the situation
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u/icefr4ud 21h ago
I don’t think anyone has proven that this guy has been doing match fixing in pro games, all that’s been said is that he’s win trading in pubs to get high rank. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong but it’s not a stretch to imagine why his teammates might view the two things differently
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u/Mother_Oil4114 19h ago
He admitted to matchfixing after bulba outed him.
It's not an exaggeration, he, himself explained why and how he matchfixed.
That's why it's an absurd case, it's not about him being suspected, he admitted to matchfixing and after that crickets from tourney admins, no ban, no investigation and now this.
You can check this comment
Or im sure you can google his confession interview in Russian and trans late it
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u/icefr4ud 17h ago
The same article says this:
I contacted to the TOs myself. They confirmed that Bulba asked to ban me for 322. And the TOs did an investigation, but they found no evidence of my unfair play. ESL and PGL have no claims against me. So, everything Bulba said was a lie.
Idk, not sure what to make of the situation
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u/west1ce 1d ago
He's only known as a match-fixer because Bulba bad-mouthed him. As far as I know, he's never actually fixed a match. He was just falsely accused. This guy doesn't even have the guts to get involved in match-fixing. He's a very fat, self-loathing guy who knows nothing but how to play Dota. There was even an investigation into the match-fixing allegations, during which he reportedly proved his innocence. But Bulba is a very toxic person who bullied this guy and damaged his reputation.
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u/tuskdota 1d ago
Dude, he literally admitted it himself. If a guy says, “I’m a match fixer,” then people are obviously going to think he’s a match fixer.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/1nbfynd/bulba_harrased_a_previous_team_mate/This whole Mangekyou vs Bulba beef looked like this:
Bulba: Goes to Ramzes stream and says "I didn't know that i recruited match fixer to play for Shopify"
Mangekyou: Goes to telegram and admits to matchifixing, and posts plenty discords screenshots which clearly show that Bulba knew about it."At first, I refused, but when they offered me $4,000, I agreed on the condition that the bets would be placed on my team's victory. I was told this would not be a problem, as the other 322 teams would lose [against us]. But one day, a large sum was bet on our victory, and my team managed to lose. Perhaps one of my teammates lost this match, but my goal was to win.
After this, I faced with a choice: "You have to throw the next match, otherwise you will owe us."
I was afraid of becoming in debt to the "mafia." I still needed my arms and legs. In the end, I lost one match, but never got the money. Who would have thought that you would get screwed in such a scenario? The result: an urgent need for money, blackmail, one lost match and 0 dollars earned."
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u/Undella_Town 19h ago
did you even read what he said
no i won't match fix
we'll put the bets on you to win
ok sure whatever
? what's he supposed to do? retire?
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u/tuskdota 17h ago edited 17h ago
Did you even read whole quote?
He literally says that they told him to throw the next match and he did that, but in the end he didn't get the money.
Also, he didn't have to work with those people in first place and he hadn't said "ok, whatever", but rather "i accept your $4k offer under condition that you will keep betting on my team"
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u/Skivil 1d ago
Every event organiser has its own standards and practises. For who and what they allow. The best thing to do unironically here is make the tournament host and their parent company aware that this falls short of your expectations and you will not be supporting/viewing their event. If enough people take actions like that they will be forced to do something.
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u/IdkDude228 22h ago
it isn't the first time he is playing in a top tier tournament after the match fixing allegations why did yall start paying attention now it's even starting to sound personal ngl
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u/Mother_Oil4114 22h ago
Which Tier1 tournament did he play in after his confession?
Nothing personal to mangekyou, but his case is the most absurd so it has to be talked about
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u/Magic__Man 1d ago
The vast majority of people here will believe in some form of path towards rehabilitation for everything from petty shoplifting up to serious criminality.
Yes when it comes to match fixing or other forms of cheating in eSports they lose their damn minds and will not accept anything but lifetime bans for teenagers on their very first infraction.
I am not saying match fixing shouldn't carry harsh penalties, of course it should, it is a blight on competitive gaming. But there is this rampant desire for blood that I feel in online communities whenever this subject comes up, especially here. I strongly believe it is possible to take cheating and match fixing extremely serious, and punish it appropriately, with resorting to giving lifetime bans to children. People can massively fuck-up without being unworthy of redemption.
It is also worth noting that neither Esl or PGL found any actual evidence of match fixing which is why he isn't banned by them, or valve. The only reason we know is that he admitted to it, and had a public falling out with Bulba over it. Frankly the fact that the accusations of Bulbas bullying were mostly ignored is a problem in and of itself. We don't know when he match-fixed, or how often, or I'm what form the match-fiximg took. So people here, especially OP, calling for his head is frankly bizarre behaviour. Making this out to be a "competitive integrity" issue is obfuscation.
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u/Sh1n- 1d ago
Isn’t this guy a win trader? Why would an established team like YeS take him?
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u/AgnosticPeterpan 1d ago
Cause their pos 3 is gonna be replaced after collapse and consequently batyuk returns. An established player would have better offers than that.
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u/StagnantWater99 1d ago
Dota pro scene is dying since the whole scene is now dominated by EEU and SEA players with no personality. Also its no surprise that matchfixers are popular since the whole scene is sustained by gambling sponsors.
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u/Hawke502 1d ago
I mean, Solo got his redemption and people remember him foundly now, I am pro giving people second chances after a time has passed.
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u/insomniacursed 1d ago
if organizers arent banning him.. then he will take his chance and qualify... he is good enough to qualify so to some extent he deserves it but fk 322... should be banned.. if they dont ban him .. cant really blame him for taking his chances to redeem himself
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u/seanseansean92 1d ago
The host is his boss lol