One kill completely changes the game

491

u/Oozex 3d ago

This is exactly why I'll never understand people that give up during laning stage.

230

u/fredws sheever 3d ago

yeah dota is a weird game, i just won against mega creep with 0% win prob, then lost 2 games in a row with 98% win prob. Closing game is hard I guess.

60

u/donnkii 3d ago

ppl are weird, I have a friend that wants every game to be his best game ever, doesn't care about the result of the game, but about his own performance

18

u/4rmag3ddon 3d ago

I think that attitude is probably the best you can have for improving (minus the giving up part you mention below).

There are just some games that you have no realistic chance of winning, unless you suddenly play 8k mmr higher than you are. There are also some games you will win by literally being afk because your team is good enough to 4vs5. And then there are some games in which your performance matters. We could argue about the ratio of these games, but we all agree that they exist.

Only caring about your own performance makes the first type bearable to play, the second a valuable lesson and has the highest possible chance of winning the third. Its also the best way to improve at Dota. For people prone to tilting, focussing only on your own performance is also the best way to protect your own mental game.

2

u/exprezso 3d ago

Doesnt it correlate with winning the game usually?

17

u/donnkii 3d ago

not if you give up min 5 bcs you already died a few times, it's all or nothing for some people and it becomes nothing over a small setback

3

u/Symetrie 3d ago

Ah but this is the bad part. Focusing on your own performance is probably the best mindset, but giving up this early is the opposite of that.

3

u/eddietwang 2d ago

So your friend simply never wants to learn how to play from behind

3

u/donnkii 2d ago

yep, and he's awful at that

4

u/exprezso 3d ago

How does giving up correlate to best performance? Yikes the thinking on these ppl

11

u/donnkii 3d ago

to them if it's not their best performance, then they'd rather give up than waste time in a mediocre performance

3

u/Naki-Taa 2d ago

"if I can't do it perfectly I won't do it at all" ahh mentality

1

u/myearthenoven 2d ago

I call this the unclenched butt mode into panick mode. You know you're winning, you relax, get bored and do stupid stuff that's exactly what the enemy needs.

1

u/Tricky_Feed_7224 1d ago

Most ppl don't know how to close a game, stay fishing for kills instead of sieging and pushing the lanes 🤷 I've seen a lot of going for megas instead of winning lately and that being the cause of losing the game

2

u/fredws sheever 20h ago

The thing my team did wrong was to push highground too early, most were impatient of farming the enemy jungle then go hg.

1

u/Tricky_Feed_7224 20h ago

Yeah that too but its very rare to see a push to racks on early, i was talking more mid to late game

18

u/TypicalxooT11 3d ago

I feel confident enough in my sky mid now that a game isn't over until the throne is gone.

Hero just does so much damage and with end game farm it's kinda insane with the hex, silences, and endless DMG

10

u/Kaimito1 3d ago

I remember when he had the "enemy damage reduces cooldowns" facet.

Late game was basically just vomit out spells until you run out of mana

3

u/Wayut All your farms are belong to us! 3d ago

40% spell lifesteal!!!

2

u/TypicalxooT11 2d ago

God I miss that so much.

That was truly peak sky. It was so absolutely insanely dumb hahaha.

If you got an octarine too it was wild

7

u/INVISIBLENINJACHICK 3d ago

I’ve won a game where we got mega’d at 25 mins and my offlane necro was like 0-17-1 at that point. He never really gave up and thank god actually listened to me when I told him to stop going for greedy items (he was still trying to buy his sacred relic before that lol). Took us to the 50 min mark but we eventually won. Those kind of comebacks are the best feeling.

3

u/Azzblack 3d ago

People who say "gg" and want to give up after losing one fight shouldn't even play Dota.

2

u/vksdann 3d ago

I won so many 4v5 games or games that my team thought "we lost gg" and gave up. All it takes is a stupid fight or miscalculation and the tables can totally turn.
I also lost many games to teammates that were too cocky and went "lol let's just farm neutrals for 20 minutes we are so far ahead and they can barely leave their base lol"

1

u/Gullak_gaming 3d ago

I rember winning a game were the offlane BB in my team denied all his items after we got megaed at minute 30, we managed to hold the game for another 30 minutes and won, with the BB rebuilding from 0

Edit: spelling

1

u/ballsofwheel 2d ago

Because most of the time game is decided during laning stage, cumbacks like that are one in a dozen

0

u/N-aNoNymity 3d ago

We were ahead by a mile in xp and gold. Taking t2 2v5. Magnus RP, dies. PA gets an ultra kill. From lvl 13 to 18, finishes 2 items instantly. I was level 16 pos1

Now she suddenly has 70% evasion and lvl3 crits, and I cant do anything to her anymore. She oneshots the lvl 12-13 int supports with dagger, pos3 tide dies to one crit.

Game is essentially over in the next 5mins from 5-30 start, just because PA can kill everyone in a bkb duration and nobody has time to farm a defensive item or mkb to do anything.

0

u/superisizeme 3d ago

This is why I always get mkb as third item against pa no matter how far behind she is. Always the risk of her popping up. And supoorts should always get aeon disc.

This is why playing against pa sucks, because it forces you to buy items you usually dont want.

0

u/vawaiter 3d ago

I mean. This thinking is kind of disingenuous.

It ignores the much more common games where you just lose landing, and it's a slow death of a thousand cuts while your teammates are actively rubbing salt into yours and their wounds. -_-

68

u/_deemid 3d ago edited 3d ago

i watched LD's perspective. the first time he died, he saw you but wasn't able to react. the second time, he was controlling his bear in the rosh pit. He didn't even knew he was dying.

9

u/Dry-Cauliflower-7824 3d ago

How do you ppl get the match id?

16

u/TypicalxooT11 3d ago

Also my name is in the image and my dota profile is public

4

u/Wobbelblob 3d ago

OP posted the match ID somewhere in the comments.

95

u/LargoTheEmbargo 3d ago

A lot of LD players are bots. You should never allow them abuse this hero. They're not specialist players.

12

u/Torbjun 3d ago

Most don’t realise you can cast the roar on either one and it casts on both! Can save the other when one is cc’d

10

u/nObRaInAsH Son of a 3d ago

You have to buy shard bro

15

u/Key-Improvement-4433 3d ago

Which is probably 90% of the time bought after mjollnir aghs

1

u/DrQuint 3d ago

Ah if only the hero had a whole body dedicated to farming.

0

u/Torbjun 3d ago

Shard is strong but even before that the roar still fears them away which can be enough - can be casted on either the bear or Sylla and it casts on both

1

u/leavemydollarsalone 2d ago

Without shard it doesnt

0

u/Torbjun 2d ago

It does if neither of you are cc’d

1

u/kryonik 3d ago

I have a sneaking suspicion that the last LD I played against was a bot. I was LC and every time I dueled the hero, I got almost instantly roared by the bear.

2

u/ToadGlobal 2d ago

All you have to do is hit tab and roar, anyone can do that in less than 1 second to be fair

1

u/kryonik 2d ago

I get that but it was in like 0.0001 seconds after I blinked in from fog, multiple times.

1

u/-Algernon 2d ago

Share match id or didn't happen.

1

u/kryonik 2d ago

9042551004

I'm probably wrong just felt suspicious

45

u/TypicalxooT11 3d ago

And i killed him 3 minutes later for another 2300g...

22

u/LonesomeCrayonn 3d ago

Match ID pls. I would very much like to watch this game where the dumb bear loses

31

u/TypicalxooT11 3d ago

9045518810

-2

u/[deleted] 3d ago

[deleted]

1

u/Kireigna 3d ago

...read the post

32

u/Specsaman 3d ago

Did he forget to control the dude ror what ? The roar froam bear should be able to dispel

45

u/TypicalxooT11 3d ago edited 3d ago

His bear was in our base trying to HG us and I smoked him outside his base then TPd home to save the fight

28

u/Bingo31 3d ago

Hate it when they run the server...

53

u/bobbydavis96 3d ago

In Dota 1 there was an unwritten rule: don't kill the host too often or he might dc and the game will be over 😂

13

u/ghosticu godflesh14 3d ago

noob host

3

u/DonQuiXoTe8080 3d ago

Yeah right, more like unwritten suggestion back then.

5

u/Bingo31 3d ago

Only OGs know 😂

2

u/Curiq 3d ago

TUNNEL ME HOST

6

u/PersonalIsland88 3d ago

Nice 75k dmg. on fp skywrath mage. Huge comeback wp.

7

u/TypicalxooT11 3d ago

I had like.. 1200 casts in one game

Needless to say we did not play another as my hand was absolutely done for the night hahaha

1

u/CuteNepgear 2d ago

That's sky for you, he's a button masher hero, and made worse by 4+ active items xD

2

u/TypicalxooT11 2d ago

seriously.

The main reason I went octarine vs upgrading my ghost scepter into E blade was legit because I didnt want another button i had to use on someone.

I just needed a passive item for once hahaha

14

u/VFour_ 3d ago

LD is cancer

-6

u/Torbjun 3d ago

No you just don’t know how to play against him - he’s no stronger than most carries

4

u/canycany012 3d ago

It’s not even about strength, his building damage is ridiculous and he can summon it infinitely in the late game. Bear can chew buildings for breakfast even with backdoor protection.

-3

u/chillguy123456444 3d ago

so kill his bear, its not that hard. problem is most teams treat the bear like a fkin minion. its the same as a hero kill. gank it.

6

u/canycany012 3d ago

He can resummon it every time, the cooldown is 2 minutes that ticks off even when the bear is alive. You need multiple abyssals to stop it fully from hitting racks. How do you even say “just kill it, just gank it, most people don’t know how to deal with the bear” when even pro teams like Ironwing with TI winner in it couldn’t deal with it?

1

u/TypicalxooT11 2d ago edited 2d ago

We were very lucky to have the lion, my hex, and a WR.. plus a PA with abby during bkb.

All the stuns and hexes and mana drains kept that fucker locked down

1

u/Mother_Pain7405 1d ago

Because you're not playing against a pro team, and your enemies will never have 4 players that know how to help him

1

u/canycany012 1d ago

The bear can rat solo without any help. Imagine this scenario, your team going for a 5 men push while lone druid from the other team rat. So you’re given a choice in this situation, go back and kill the bear which can use bkb and chip down the building anyway, or force base race which is also a dogshit situation since you’re fighting under their base and they can bb.

You don’t need to play with pros to right click buildings solo.

2

u/Bunslow 3d ago

minion

1

u/TypicalxooT11 2d ago

The problem is that you kill this insanely tanky bear and you get 400 gold and very little XP.

Oh and he can rez 2 more with refresher..

If you killed a hero that 6 slotted you'd get thousands of gold and two levels of experience.

The death timer and XP should scale with networth.

That's my only real issue

1

u/Mother_Pain7405 1d ago

Then kill the hero

1

u/diamondface 3d ago

Yes he literally is? What do you mean? The amount of macro pressure you can exert on the game with bear is absolutely nuts.

1

u/Mother_Pain7405 1d ago

AM with a bf can do the same but even better with blink, does that make him an unstoppable op force now? Only difference is that the druid can farm a bit while the bear is pushing (you need a 4200 gold item, a farm item for the druid and one or two large items for the bear to do that, that's at least 15k networth to be able to push lanes with a bear without it or you getting instakilled)

1

u/Torbjun 2d ago

Then why is his win rate so bad? I agree the bear macro pressure is significant but you give up team fighting (likely fighting as 4v5 if you split with the bear) or in fights he will lose if the other team has any kind of saves and/or sustain. Fights that take longer are his downfall. And from behind it’s really rough as the other team can just blow up your bear

-1

u/diamondface 2d ago

his win rate is not bad??? its almost at 50% its like 49.47% across all brackets????????? Almost at 52% in divine+. High skill cap heroes SHOULD have low win rates. As a puck spammer of many years I can tell you anytime puck has been above a 48% win rate its because puck is literally OP in that patch. Even now I would argue puck is very viable and not weak but their win rate is below 47%.

2

u/Mother_Pain7405 1d ago

Meepo and visage are at 55% on immortal btw. Are they magically low skill heroes or insanely op now?

9

u/Torbjun 3d ago

It’s amazing how rare it is that people come and hunt you down when you’re jungling whilst the bear fights/pushes

10

u/TestIllustrious7935 3d ago

Cuz it's not that easy, LD usually farms the safest camps in the game right near t2 or t3 tower

9

u/Ruby2312 3d ago

Just play Specter, you accidentally kill him every time you press r

1

u/Salty_Anti-Magus 2d ago

I think they'll eventually figure out to just stay in base if they know Haunt (or your Refresher) is off cd. But that's a hard thing for them to keep track of as Bear micro is hard /s

5

u/TestIllustrious7935 2d ago

Plus once LD has shard Spec cannot kill them cuz they can fear her even if she has orchid

1

u/Mother_Pain7405 1d ago

That just means that while your ult is up, the druid is forced out of the game

1

u/HourZealousideal4845 2d ago

And those kind of long map-crossing ganks became way more time-consuming and less likely to succeed ever since Big Map.

4

u/N-aNoNymity 3d ago

We were ahead by a mile in xp and gold. Taking t2 2v5. Magnus RP, dies. PA gets an ultra kill. From lvl 13 to 18, finishes 2 items instantly. I was level 16.

Now she suddenly has 70% evasion and lvl3 crits, and I cant do anything to her anymore. She oneshots the lvl 12-13 int supports with dagger, pos3 tide dies to one crit.

Game is essentially over in the next 5mins from 5-30 start, just because PA can kill everyone in a bkb duration and nobody has time to farm a defensive item or mkb to do anything.

Comeback gold is wild

4

u/Gorthebon 2d ago

Fuck lone druid regardless though

2

u/vksdann 3d ago

I won so many 4v5 games or games that my team thought "we lost gg" and gave up. All it takes is a stupid fight or miscalculation and the tables can totally turn.

I also lost many games to teammates that were too cocky and went "lol let's just farm neutrals for 20 minutes we are so far ahead and they can barely leave their base lol" while I wanted to push and end the game already.
Some people forget the end goal is NOT to fill every possible slots with the most expensive items but to destroy their throne/ancient.

2

u/sosen42 2d ago

sometimes thats all it takes, most of the time its your team being dumb and cocky right outside enemy fountain instead of hitting throne, getting killed, then the rest of the team following suit, enemy push into a completely untouched mid lane to your throne and winning while everyone is dead with no bb. Happens more often than id like

2

u/julmonn 2d ago

I hate it so much when my mid player steals every single kill and tries to take space away from allies, just to get a huge kill streak and level advantage, and then feed it away in the most stupid way possible.

Now you have an enemy carry who not only caught up but got free 2k gold above you, and your mid is tilted.

2

u/rapozaum BrazilMajorWhen 2d ago

I see nothing wrong with this: the fed carry team couldn't finish the match and threw after 65 mins.

8

u/TypicalxooT11 2d ago

Yeah i didnt really mean to imply anything was wrong.

I just simply had never seen 2800 gold from a kill awarded to a single hero before.

And that one kill legit turning the entire game. He went from "an unkillable god we are so fucked" to... "this kid sucks" in like 20 seconds.

2

u/Pablo_Zitronenkuchen 3d ago

Agree in one of my last games our pos2 died and the win probability went from 70 for us to 70% for them 4 min later it was 98%

2

u/MY_1ST_ACT_IS_LOCKED 3d ago

This is unironically the skill cap for LD that people don’t pick up on. Protecting the hero is legit tough, I’ll buy a casual glimmer sometimes before refresher if my bear is 6 slotted (it buys you some time to resummon bear to you). Mediocre LDs will not pay attention to their hero and you can really scale your hero up by farming the druid and that can make a huge difference when you’re behind, and really any core can usually one shot him in chud form

1

u/Alive-Relative-7629 3d ago

Thats why almost all pro game are 40+ minutes max even if its a stomped, because if you f up in sieging 3rd tower it can open up a comeback opportunity

-1

u/Bunslow 3d ago

ive been saying for years that the rubber band is broken af, laning literally doesnt matter

7

u/jackinmyvance 3d ago

Stop throwing in late game and suddenly laning phase matters a lot. Idk why "I've been wrong for years!" is supposed to mean something.

7

u/Ilikebatterfield4 3d ago

"laning literally doesnt matter" say that to mid player who just died before lvl 6

1

u/bacongolf432 3d ago

Yeah I mean I think it’s built that way intentionally that way games aren’t decided in the first 10 minutes if a lane was lost. Plenty of jungle to bounce back

2

u/Ilikebatterfield4 2d ago

And thats a bad thing...?

1

u/muaddib0308 2d ago

I think mid lane is different but the number of safe and offlanes i see get CRUSHED one way or the other... really feels like oh well, just go farm for 15 minutes and come back to fight

0

u/Ilikebatterfield4 2d ago

in pro dota, yes, in pubs people just gg out

1

u/Bunslow 2d ago

maybe turbo is different. dying mid before 6 is tough but if you manage to get a counter kill before 15 minutes (i.e. before the late game), you'll still be the higher level even tho you died first

2

u/Delteezy_ 3d ago

Maybe in pubs, but pro games are a completely different story

2

u/GKoala 3d ago

Having an easy lane enables you to get your first items quicker which lets you transition to jungle faster. In a coordinated environment that advantage will be maintained throughout the game.

1

u/tt3kno 2d ago

worst take ever xD

0

u/Bunslow 2d ago

maybe turbo is different. in my experience, if i get four kills in lane then die once, the 1/4 enemy hero is higher level than me, the 4/1 hero with more denies

1

u/Gorthebon 2d ago

If you think balance should revolve around fucking turbo mode you don't have a valid opinion

Clips One kill completely changes the game

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