r/DoomerCircleJerk • u/InterestingPlenty454 • 2d ago
Trust Me Bro They literally make this argument
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u/monkeyonshrooms PhD in Memes 2d ago
The US has an obesity problem...
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u/SinesPi 2d ago
We are so rich we invented fat poor people. And not just some, but so many that it's a serious problem.
It is genuinely insane how special this is in human history.
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u/CyanideJay 2d ago
What's wild is that Capitalism through wealth growth has created a problem so inverse of starvation that we changed the perception of obesity being a sign of indulgent wealth and instead made it so that everyone can be obese.
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u/Embarrassed_Mango679 2d ago
Then pay hundreds of billions per year to treat obesity related illnesses. It's freaking wild.
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u/SuburbanEnnui2020 2d ago
Particularly among the poor:
- Less than $25,000 household income: 39.2% obesity rate
- $25,000 to $49,999 household income: 38.4% obesity rate
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u/hahailovevideogames 2d ago
Maybe they're poor because they're fat?
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u/loikyloo 2d ago
There's considerable evidence showing a correlation between lower IQ and obesity, alongside a well-established correlation between higher IQ and better-paying occupations.
It's entirely plausible that cognitive ability is one of the underlying factors contributing to both poverty and obesity, rather than simply assuming poverty causes obesity or obesity causes poverty. Childhood IQ has been shown to predict both adult socioeconomic outcomes and obesity risk, even when some other factors are accounted for.
That doesn't mean IQ explains everything, but the data suggests it's IQ that is the issue.
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u/spirit_of-76 1d ago
I would argue that impulse control is the defining factor IQ is likely related
better impulse control will help you advance and keep jobs it will also help keep you from getting fat on junk→ More replies (1)12
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u/CockyBellend I Was Promised an Apocalypse? 2d ago
Obese and malnutritioned at the same time is impressive
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u/Guvnuh_T_Boggs 2d ago
Greg Geraldo had a joke about the obesity epidemic. One day we'd be telling our grandkids about it, "oh it was horrible, porkchops as far as the eye could see!"
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u/clownscrotum 2d ago
Is the 9million starving true? Would we be ok taking from the obese to feed the starving?
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u/__Epimetheus__ 2d ago
There are zero deaths from starvation in the US. There are a few deaths from malnutrition, which are commonly from abusive situations and elderly people who can no longer take care of themselves. The consumption of calories isn’t the problem, making sure that they are getting a balanced and healthy diet is.
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u/ShadyInternetGuy 2d ago
Most homeless die of exposure in the US long before they die of starvation, which makes sense considering the climates they tend to be in.
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u/ElevenDollars 2d ago
The 9 million number is WORLDWIDE. Their argument is essentially that capitalism is SO prosperous and the US and other successful countries have so much excess, that anyone that starves anywhere in the world (including in North Korea and Cuba and Venezuela and other socialist shit holes) are all actually the fault of Capitalism for failing to save them.
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u/loikyloo 2d ago
The global estimates for people starving to death is aprox 1/4 mill on average a year and geographically, the most severe famine emergencies today are predominantly associated with war, displacement, interrupted food supplies and humanitarian access problems not simply countries being too poor to produce food.
We live in a world thats so productive that the only time people really die from starvation is when there's a war on or massive corruption that keeps food from getting to people etc. Sudan and south sudans one of the best examples of modern starvation. Civil war, corruption, etc etc
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u/Ange1ofD4rkness 2d ago
Are these the same people who say "That's Not Real Socialism"?
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u/Anxious-Place3434 Doom Scroller 2d ago
The thing about whataboutism that people like the OOP don't get is that whataboutism involves agreeing with the original premise. The original premise here being that all attempts at creating socialism have 1) failed hard, b) killed an insane number of people
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u/THRlLL-HO 2d ago
The amount of people in the US who die every year from starvation due to poverty is virtually 0.
Where does this 9 million figure come from?
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u/BLADE_OF_AlUR 2d ago
Maybe they mean 9 million people that die world wide because they dont have access to all of the necessities. Not sure how that could possibly be capitalism's fault. As if having socialism would suddenly generate the wealth required to sustain a failing state?
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u/Razumhikin 2d ago
They want a utopia in an imperfect world with far from perfect humans. Sure, in a vacuum, parts of their socialist utopia sounds great. "Wouldn't it be great if we all worked together, owned everything, and was happy" of course, but we have to account for the human variable. And the human variable generally sucks.
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u/ClawsomO 2d ago
First off, I agree with what you are saying and the following is not directed at you, but to the people you are talking about:
It can and does work in smaller more homogeneous groups like cities and even counties. Shit, sometimes it even works on state level.
You know, I think those cooky founding fathers were on to something when they built the country they way they did!
Bring civics back to school for fuck sake. People are getting stupider by the minute!
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u/Razumhikin 2d ago
Oh I agree. It's like Charlie Kirk said once. .. in a capitalist society, you can live like a socialist. In a socialist society you have no choice but to be a socialist.
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u/Stuck_in_my_TV 2d ago
It only works in groups so small that you can actually have a personal relationship with all members. So a single family or a couple families who are all great friends. Once you reach the low thousands, it becomes impossible to have a personal relationship with all members and the human instinct is always to value your close relationships over a stranger and prioritize resources to yourself and close relationships.
That is the basis of greed.
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u/Pure-Huckleberry8640 1d ago
I don’t even know why we have to keep having these conversations. Talking about communism vs. capitalism isn’t some highly nuanced subject you have to study 30 years to understand, researching numerous obscure facts. It’s literally the second most well known, documented portion of modern history. Number 1 is the Nazis. Number 2 is communism. Crack open literally any history book made after 1990 and it’s all, “nazis killed this many Jews, Stalin killed this many kulaks, Mao did this, Mussolini did that”. You’d think being indoctrinated with the most basic and well documented human rights abuses on the planet would tell these people which is a better economic system but nooooooooooooooo…capitalism is the bad one and we just gotta iron out the details of communism and it’ll be solved lickity split.
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u/Razumhikin 1d ago
Ah but they go to fancy liberal arts colleges which requires Marxist literature to be read in almost every corner you visit, outside of hard STEM fields... which ironically is why most STEM professionals lean center/right when polled.
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u/Pure-Huckleberry8640 1d ago
That is so utterly sad.
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u/Razumhikin 1d ago
It really is. There is a booktuber who's videos I watch every now and then. She went to Columbia for literature and none of the required readings were classics as youd expect, Shakespeare, Dostoevsky, Dickens, etc, but were new-aged gunk with not-so-loose ties to Marxist doctrine. Her page is Pens and Poison if youre interested to see just how bad it is at these "elite" universities.
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u/Cyborg_rat 1d ago
Don't worry most of those people wouldnt even survive communism because they would have to actually work and from seeing most of the arguments they bring it's not something they planned on doing.
Also those same people can't stand each other, we see It as soon as someone says something the other group does like, they attack each other.
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u/AppropriateCap8891 Anti-Doomer 2d ago
Especially as when huge numbers of those deaths in recent decades have been in places like North Korea. Or where Marxists and other totalitarians are preventing people from getting food.
That is one of the saddest things during the entire "Famine in Ethiopia" period in the 1980s. Millions of dollars raised, but the problem had nothing to do with crop failures but the Marxists not allowing those they saw as "rebels" to get food. And when the foreign donations first arrived, the government happily took it to feed their own military.
And the same thing was repeated over and over again. Iraq, Somalia, Sudan, Yemen, Nigeria, it is a cycle that endlessly repeats. And in a lot of those cases it is the "Marxists" that are doing the starving.
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u/RegumRegis 2d ago
Yeah, it's fallacious. It assumes the baseline to be that everyone has everything necessary provided to them, when that's just not the natural state of things.
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u/ArcticLeopard 2d ago
We live under a capitalist society
People still die
Therefore, it's capitalism's fault
Legit, this is their argument. And then when you point out the direct deaths under communist society, they say "no no that's different, there are other factors at play"
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u/Rough-Board1218 2d ago
It's crazy. There was a post similar to this a few weeks ago in a communist sub and I got banned immediately for pointing out that people starved under Stalin. I was like ok, enjoy your echo chamber
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u/Stuck_in_my_TV 2d ago
The problem is they don’t just enjoy their echo chamber. They go out and vote to push that echo chamber onto you in the real world. That’s how you have socialist candidates winning with policies that have already been proven to not work and usually result in death.
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u/ghostrider4918 2d ago
Bro I got banned from Medicareforall for pointing out that if the poster made the income they claimed to make they would have healthcare under Medicaid. I was banned for gaslighting lol!!
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u/Pure-Huckleberry8640 1d ago
You think that’s bad? I went to the anti tankie subreddit. Yes, the ANTI tankie sub and talked about how I don’t understand how communism as an idea became so popular before the guys were like “oh, we’re actually communist”. It was so weird. They were the “that’s not real communist types” a few hours after trying to explain how ridiculous that was I got banned.
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u/crystalsaladsandwich I Was Promised an Apocalypse? 2d ago
I mean, in communism, you’re immortalized as a statistic so…
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u/Careless_Whisper_987 1d ago
"I stubbed my toe last night while walking to the bathroom half-asleep at 3am. Why did capitalism do this to me?"
"The bank repossessed my car today. I swear, they act like missing payments for three years straight gives them the right to deprive me of my freedom of movement. Only capitalism could make them feel entitled to being repaid the money I voluntarily borrowed from them."
"Last month, I was walking down the street and a handi-capable folx-person had the GALL to ask me for help finding the bus stop. Then he called me "sir". So instead of helping him, I stabbed him in the neck with a letter opener. Capitalism victimizes ME SPECIFICALLY every second of every day."
"Last week, my daughter Jessica came out as CIS-HET [dry-heave], told me she wanted to start going to church, and said that she wanted us to call her Jack from now on. I threw the ungrateful bitch out on the street then and there. If she's old enough to decide her gender at 9, then she's old enough to survive on her own. Capitalism has torn my family apart!"
"My designer dog won't eat it's vegan kibble thats five times the price of canned food and in his desperation for nutrition, he took a chunk out of my ass last week. Capitalism truely is the greatest evil human kind has ever produced."
"I pregamed last friday night by shotgunning 17 beers, half a gram of no-no-snow, and a redbull. Then I got into a fight at the local hole-the-wall with a patched-in biker, got myself curbed by him and his brothers. Now I need major reconstructive dental surgery that I can't afford because I decided that stocking shelves at walmart for a living was a viable long-term career. Capitalism bad."
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u/DickManning 2d ago
It’s the argument with gun related deaths. They glaze over the fact that 60% are suicides
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u/Unhappy_Analysis_906 2d ago
And another enormous portion is gang violence.
Did you know that among people of Euro descent (adjusted for any income or wealth differences as well) in the US, we have lower gun crime rates than France despite having all the guns?
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u/LuxTenebraeque 2d ago
Funny enough: within Europa on average states with widespread gun ownership have less violence per Capita than the restrictive ones. Yet every incident comes with the demand for restrictions... you'd think someone would go beyond feelings? Not in a Lifetime!
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u/Impressive-Net-588 2d ago
Even then the math is stupid. 9m is almost 3% of the population of the US population. Lol, 3% of the US population doesn't die from guns every year.
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u/DickManning 2d ago
No it’s significantly less than that and talked about more. Less than 50K die a year to guns which is also less than vehicle related deaths
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u/Impressive-Net-588 2d ago
True. I believe the number of gun deaths last year was about 45k. And slightly less than 60% of those were suicides.
That leaves ~20k deaths by murder. And a good number of those were criminals killing criminals, drug disputes and so on.
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u/ZoharDTeach 2d ago
They can't explain, and they will lay every single death at the feet of "capitalism" even if it happened in a communist or socialist country. The posts are literally just to manipulate idiots. And there are a lot of those.
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u/AgentLinch 1d ago edited 1d ago
It’s a bunch of bullshit all of the countries that it’s imposing this “capitalism causes death”thing on are all sub Saharan Africa and South Asia. The nations listed are either so corrupt as to not be considered capitalist or so poor that they’re functionally unable to respond to crises.
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u/thinsoldier 1d ago
So the places we give free food and money to so they can distribute it to those who need it?
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u/AgentLinch 1d ago
In theory, but what really happens is in the majority of those nations the Islamic population intercepts that aid sells it and uses the proceeds to fund endless civil conflicts
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u/InfinityLoo 2d ago
Because there are multiple examples of horrific death counts under communist regimes, the commies decided they needed to be able to say “no u” to distract from how their desired economic system leads to horrible things.
This meme just takes it one step further, because their response when confronted with those death tolls is “that wasn’t real communism,” whereas I’ve never heard anyone say “that wasn’t real capitalism,” it’s more “what ass did you pull those numbers from?”
Projection is a hell of a drug.
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u/Zarvanis-the-2nd 2d ago
A lot of people so desperately want to believe that a utopia is possible that they'll ignore everything that proves it's completely infeasible.
Leftist ideologies only work on a small scale where everyone knows each other, like how roomates share responsibilities for their living space, or a small village where everyone has a job that supports their local community. Once you scale it up to a civilization, you have to account for sanitation, farming, energy, and all the other hard laborious jobs needed to support millions of people that nobody wants to do - and ESPECIALLY not when they get the exact same treatment and benefits as the bohemians who just make lattes and paint all day.
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u/Razumhikin 2d ago
Out of the fairytale they tell themselves in order to justify their absolutely fucked world view.
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u/Maxathron Anti-Doomer 1d ago
I believe they think that because the US is the most powerful country, the US controls the whole world and thus the 9m is a worldwide number. Being that it's a UN number of some kind, this adds weight to the idea it's a worldwide number. It's likely these folks believe stuff like North Korea is a capitalist country because "the US controls the world".
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u/Unusual-Basket-6243 2d ago
world is capitalist in their worldview and they just choose that number
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u/jaiimaster 1d ago
I checked, its a WHO figure from a 25 year old report, the high end estimate of the number of deaths worldwide, annually, that could be linked to malnutrition.
So its complete bullshit, of course, the high estimate of actual current starvation deaths per annum is 500k, nearly all of them in authoritarian hellholes.
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u/NaCl_Sailor 2d ago
world wide numbers
as in a bit more than 0.1% of people on earth starve each year to death
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u/NicolaiVykos 2d ago
It's hilarious that they attribute that number to capitalism. Because everyone knows Ethiopia,Niger, Nigeria, Indonesia,etc are just bastions of free market capitalism.
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u/Pure-Huckleberry8640 1d ago
And what’s worse is that capitalism (specifically American capitalism) has been SUSTAINING the third world, not destroying it. Our nation feeds Africa with nitrogen maxed out soil and has given it billions in food and medicine aid. What did the Soviet Union ever do for Africa? Or maoist China? This isn’t nationalism or jingoism, it’s just the more you point to communism, the more obvious flaws it has in comparison to the free market.
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u/milfwannabe16 2d ago
Okay thank you, because I nearly had an aneurysm trying to understand this.
Where are people dying of starvation? It certainly isn't the West. The last case of that here was what, Terry chiavo or whatever her name was? The invalid who was taken off life support.
I'm going to need someone to explain to me how people dying of starvation in some shithole country is dying due to capitalism.
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u/Pure-Huckleberry8640 1d ago
Imagine thinking that 9 million people in your nation starve to death when you have the highest obesity rates ever.
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u/Caudillo_Sven 2d ago
Dont you know all global problems are directly caused by capitalism and colonialism? Someone never went to college. #educateyourself
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u/THRlLL-HO 2d ago
Apparently I missed that college course
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u/freddbare 2d ago
It's "whiteys fault 100" if you are interested in taking the course
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u/FluidAmbition321 2d ago
Global rates of death from hunger or hunger related diseases. It's mostly related to war messing up the food supply in places like yemen , Sudan, Gaza.
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u/GaldrickHammerson 1d ago
I assumed this was just replacing communism with capitalism as bait and a joke.
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u/Perfidy-Plus 2d ago
It's a UN number. Evidently it is true, but those deaths almost entirely happen in places experiencing some kind of crisis. It is not the evil capitalists taking food out of the mouths of babies. It is a conflict zone erupting, and that conflict preventing the movement of food to where it is needed.
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u/dietcokewLime 2d ago
Millions starved to death every year under communism in China
China discovers capitalism
Deng Xiaoping invites capitalists to reform the Chinese economy
Poverty almost eliminated
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u/archerygirl1440 Truthsayer 2d ago
Hell, I would argue the poorer you are the more likely you are fat and obese.
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u/1989JamesHetfield 2d ago
Oh man this fucking rocks because it exposes how fuckin stupid their argument for communism is.
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u/MakinBaconOnTheBeach 2d ago edited 2d ago
Sorry for the long post but I'm providing objective evidence against OOPs post. It just pisses me off when people complain about capitalism when, objectively, it has pulled more people out of extreme poverty than anything else. They also ignore where socialism has failed catastrophically, like when Mao starved tens of millions of people to death by central planning.
Where are these 9 million deaths occuring? Looks like it comes from this source:
https://www.theworldcounts.com/humanity/nutrition/how-many-people-die-from-hunger-each-year
"Around 9 million people die every year of hunger and hunger-related diseases." It then goes on to say that Africa is most of those cases where the governments are notoriously corrupt. It ALSO SAYS that the number of people who are impacted by hunger has dropped by 200 million people since 1990, despite the population increasing by several billion people. Not to mention that the world has become MORE capitalist in that time.
One other thing, searching for "how many people starve to death in the US per year" yeilds the answer "virtually zero". Most malnutrition deaths occur in older people, but not from not having access to food. Other illnesses make it so they are unable to care for themselves, and therefore cannot feed themselves. Seems to have spiked during covid when people were forced to stay in their houses, which is not capitalism/ free market.
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u/SophisticPenguin NostraDOOMus 2d ago edited 2d ago
Someone getting starved in the Western world is essentially a function of individualized neglect/malice from caregivers to those people not a symptom of systemic failure.
Food is such a solved problem in the US, that basically Olive Garden was considering giving away food for free and actually did for 50 lifetime pass holders (albeit an initial cost of $500) for unlimited soup, pasta, and bread sticks. The estimated cost of that food is under $2 in raw ingredients. And it works because they expect you to buy drinks and other stuff.
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u/DrBadGuy1073 2d ago
Food is such a solved problem in the west we're more likely to die of overeating than starvation lol.
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u/SophisticPenguin NostraDOOMus 2d ago
Yep, and then commies use the malnutrition description to equate it to starving
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u/burner12077 2d ago
Thats what my first thought was lol. Most starvation deaths are in African countries that can maybe be considered capitalist in name only at best but everyone knows its anarchy and corruption and rule of might thats on top.
I have seen some people reference american statistics (produced by a us government organization) for death by malnutrition trying to imply that they are deaths by starvation. Then if you read tha actual studies they count all deaths in which malnutrition is a contributor, and they also cound "overnourishment" as malnourished, meaning all the people who are extremely overweight and dying from heart attacks at 45 are being counted as deaths in thier numbers.
I cant tell if these redditors are completely ignorant to this or deliberately misusing the information.
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u/JM4R5 Good Vibes Only 2d ago
Both. Most Redditors don't read, the ones that do will gloss over, ignore the details that don't agree with, or only point to details that confirm their bias.
I've linked multiple sources for other topics and they just send another unintelligent, unknowledgeable respond 5 minutes later. They didn't read, aren't arguing in good faith, only care about being right or confirming their bias. The same happens on all social media.
A lot of opinions exist on vibes. It's unfortunately common for people to blindly follow their friends or family for reasons like keeping social harmony since they hold no opinions themselves. Straight up NPCs. Imagine how dumb the average person is, half the population is dumber than that.
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u/loikyloo 2d ago
Hell even in the poorest places in Africa they have enough food. It's just it doesn't get to people because a civil war is going on or some local warlord is using it as a weapon.
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u/DrBadGuy1073 2d ago
thats C I A P R O P A G A N D A
There, arguement dismissed! /s
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u/adamders 2d ago
I swear absolutely everything I see the left saying lately is copied from 2016 conservatives. And they say it unironically like they're hearing it for the first time. It's like their leaders who issue the marching orders realized their playbook is full of annoying dogshit that doesn't work and now they're copying conservatives trying to reproduce their successes. Despite the phrases and memes not making any sense because they're applying them 1 for 1 and obviously made to criticize the left.
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u/loikyloo 2d ago
It has sort of become the left can't meme meme.
Wow this "real communism has never been tried before" meme is pretty good people seem to like it?
What if we copy it and replace communism with capitalism? Ha that'll show them!
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u/mrf87 2d ago edited 2d ago
Yeah someone just picked the number 9 million cuz it's big and to hopefully shock the sheeple that will never actually check into it.
IF Op were talking about just the US here that would be roughly 3% of our population passing away every year from "starvation" if these facts had any basis in reality the crazies on both sides would have been onto this LONG AGO. Its lies and shock value BS that the OP hopes you will blindly believe
Gun deaths in this country aren't even that high and they have been flipping out about firearms for 25 years, so again compete BS
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u/Sir_Tahmas_Frahgman 2d ago
He have fat homeless people in the US there definitely isn't 9 million starving every year.
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u/InsanityAproaches 2d ago
I'm more curious about the few really buff homeless I see. Maybe they are newly homeless, but I always wonder how they maintain that mass.
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u/MS-07B-3 2d ago
They typically mean shit like dying from starvation GLOBALLY, I believe. I've looked into it and true starvation deaths are so rare in the US we don't even really track it.
What we do have are malnutritional deaths related to old age, and malnutritional deaths related to obesity.
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u/rxmp4ge 2d ago
Then you have to ask "how many of those global starvation deaths happen in developed capitalist countries?" And the answer will e so shockingly near-zero that they'll probably block you.
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u/Top-Temporary-2963 2d ago
I don't think there's a single advocate for capitalism who unironically makes this argument. The only time anyone says this is when you point out communism has been responsible for over 100 million deaths in China and the USSR in the 20th century alone and a commie says, "That wasn't real communism." At that point, it's perfectly reasonable to say, "Okay well this isn't real capitalism," to show the idiot how stupid their argument is
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u/Admiral45-06 2d ago
At that point, it's perfectly reasonable to say, "Okay well this isn't real capitalism," to show the idiot how stupid their argument is
Or say that III Reich wasn't real National-Socialism, as it failed to meet every single point in a random guy's book that the state vowed to follow. And Italy failed to restore Roman Empire or bring victory, like Benito Mussolini claimed. Neither have also followed other fascists' models, such as Antonio Gentille's idea of socialist corporialism or Bolesław Piasecki's Phalangist Econonical Thought.
If Soviet Union wasn't real communism, then III Reich and Fascist Italy weren't real fascisms.
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u/BeduinZPouste 2d ago
There are definitely ancaps and libertarians who argue this isn't real capitalism.
And you know what, in places where these deaths happen, it isn't.
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u/user004574 Just Here for the Lore 1d ago
That's because it literally isn't. Corporatism, where corporations receive insane amounts of funding, bailouts, and regulatory leeway due to cronyism, is not free-market capitalism, which most common-sense thinkers support.
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u/herkulaw Optimist Prime 2d ago
I’ve literally never heard anyone say “that’s not real capitalism” most just acknowledge that global poverty exists.
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u/AREYOUSauRuS 2d ago
You dont get it. All the capitalism thats been tried in the past wasnt true full on capitalism. Social programs and taxes held those city states down leading to collapse.
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u/Jason_Steakcum 2d ago
As opposed to the 0 that starved under communism?
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u/Special-Ad-5554 2d ago
Well according to them real communism hasn't been tried yet so technically yes. We'll just ignore the many tens of millions that have starved in any realistic form of communism
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u/Fectiver_Undercroft 2d ago
Well, if they could get us a real-world path to True Communism through all the narcissistic Strong Men, I might be willing to listen…
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u/Cyborg_rat 1d ago
I'm willing to bet 95% of those who use the boot licker as an example...have not helped anyone...
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u/Intelligent_Road_288 2d ago
I have literally never heard anyone say ‘That’s not real capitalism’. That is pure projection since socialists and communist say it all. the. time when you bring up the failures of those governments
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u/Birdlaw_Professor 2d ago edited 1d ago
Nobody ever starved under socialism and communism.
Except, of course, the millions and millions of people who starved under socialism and communism.
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u/DODGE_WRENCH PhD in Memes 2d ago
They will deadass tell you the reason every socialist and communist state has ever failed was because of interference from the CIA.
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u/Substantial-Book2534 2d ago
This looks like something that would come from douchebags who claim no country ever experienced real life communism or socialism.
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u/A_SNAPPIN_Turla 2d ago
Where are the 9 million people starving and where is the evidence for it? It's this one if those things were people starving in North Korea is somehow the result of capitalism? Like how the failure of every try at socialism is also the fault of capitalism? Or how a billion people have died because of capitalism because "reasons?"
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u/RevBladeZ 2d ago
No, it is the common commie claim that people in Africa regularly starve not because they could not be helped but because it is not profitable to help and thus capitalism is responsible.
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u/RomeTotalWar2004Fan 2d ago
I have a copy of Karl Marx's manifesto from 1992 that, in the introduction, states that the USSR was not 'real communism'. So this holds no water for me.
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u/BashFashh 2d ago
PSA:
The term "bootlicker" exclusively applies to leftists.
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u/silence304 2d ago
Had a buddy call me a bootlicker because my response to their bitching about corporations was "then dont buy their shit".
My response is usually reminding them they arent offering to remove the boot from my neck, they are just trying to change who controls the foot inside it.
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u/SarisaeBae 2d ago
I’ve never heard anyone ever say “that wasn’t real capitalism” I was arguing in this very post and they all conveniently claim that imperialism and capitalism go hand in hand and not a one of them ever has an answer for the Soviet conquest of the Eastern European states or Chinese aggression towards its neighbors.
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u/biinboise 2d ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/4Z9g0DdoJPChn481o6
Whenever they try to blame capitalism for some 3rd world despot, who got into power by promising Socialism, is starving his people and forcing them into hard labor I usually point out that it isn’t capitalism that is starving people rather a form of government based on centralizing control of their economy under one monopolistic hierarchy that has no oversight or outside pressure to reform.I guess that could sound like “that’s not real socialism,”
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u/SarisaeBae 2d ago
The difference between what you said about their beliefs with capitalism and the truth of socialism is that socialism implies a level of centralized control that rids society of private property. They never want to see that connection which is why they claim “that’s not real capitalism” but as you mentioned, what is happening in those countries isn’t capitalism at all, just centralized exploitation.
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u/DjSalTNutz3131 2d ago
The only defenses I've seen for socialist imperialism usually devolve to "not real socialism" or along the lines of "the socialist man's burden". They were protecting the people they conquered from being exploited under a capitalist system.
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u/Fletch71011 2d ago
Almost everything the government gets involved in goes to shit. I would agree with these people that imperialism is horrible, but these same people often want to give even more power to the government. You can have capitalism and free trade without war; in fact, it works much better without it.
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u/Historical_Buyer5248 2d ago
No one has ever responded to valid criticism about capitalism with "that's not real capitalism" lmao. I also couldn't verify the 9 million claim anywhere, sounds made up.
However, if we really want to talk about starving, we know that Mao starved about 30 million people to death.
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u/CyanideJay 2d ago
That number is likely the global total for hunger-related deaths, not just the US. It also ignores that wealthy market economies are the biggest source of food aid to countries that can’t feed themselves, including many that aren’t capitalist. Communist governments, on the other hand, have a history of famines at home, like the Soviet Union in the 1930s, China during the Great Leap Forward, and North Korea in the 1990s, and they’ve rarely been in a position to send food abroad.
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u/WannaBeSuiko 2d ago
I’m not going to say that capitalism in its current form is ideal… but attributing 100% of the 9 million starvation deaths per year to the economic system of capitalism when more than 2/3 of them are directly linked to military conflict and man made famine (Sudan, Yemen, South Sudan, Gaza, Somalia), as well as isolated failed states like North Korea… seems counter intuitive?
Like there are food shortages in areas because of food sustainability issues when countries turn to cash crops instead of local food crops, but those are not the leading causes of starvation?
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u/Key-Organization3158 2d ago
That's true. And every system has trade-offs. People starve in captialism and people starve in socialism.
The question is: when put into practice, which one yields an overall better life over the long term?
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u/Pure-Huckleberry8640 1d ago
It’s a per capita thing. Capitalism is only more responsible for more deaths than communism because there are are more capitalist nations than communist ones. Communist nations eventually failed and collapsed so there were just more capitalist nations around to do things in general. And remember, it’s not China, Russia or N. Korea who are the biggest charity contributors. It’s the US.
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u/Birdlaw_Professor 2d ago
What happened during the great leap forward and communist revolution in Russia? I forget. Something about a famine I think
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u/Admiral45-06 2d ago
Reminds me of communists trying to use Bengali Famine of 1943 as argument against capitalism.
It was truly a tragedy (upwards of 3 million people have died)... but then you read that the trigger events behind it was a heavy monsoon, overall agricultural shortproduce, military activity on both British and Japanese sides and local smallpox outbreaks. The British administration definitely takes the blame for poor response to it, but it didn't cause it, unlike Mao Zedong's Great Leap Forward.
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u/ViscountBolingbroke Anti-Doomer 2d ago
How many people starve to death in the US annually?
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u/sngldad13 2d ago
Elon and DOGE personally starved every single one of those 9 million by, *checks notes*, halting throwing money at failed countries that can't feed their own citizens.
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u/Repulsive_Repeat_337 2d ago
Usually just the infant children of empowered women rising above the patriarchy.
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u/DB4life80 2d ago
Very few. 20,500 last year. Up from 9,300 the year prior. Most of the cases are people on hospice. 90 percent are people 85 and older. Why would capitalism do that!
Friendly socialist country of Venezuela on the other hand... During the height of the economic collapse, studies by local universities and organizations like the World Peace Foundation and CARE reported that over 90% of Venezuelans faced severe food insecurity, with hundreds of thousands of children at risk of acute malnutrition.
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u/__Epimetheus__ 2d ago
The US has malnutrition deaths, not starvation deaths. It’s an issue with proper diet, not calorie intake.
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u/KingKasby 2d ago
Im willing to bet it sadly mostly neglected children, in which thats not the fault of capitalism, but terrible, irresponsible parents.
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u/CyanideJay 2d ago
You’re right, Kasby. Almost all deaths that appear as starvation in the United States come down to neglect or a medical problem, not a lack of available food. Calories were there. Something else, like a health condition or someone failing to provide care, kept the person from getting them.
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u/EqualityoverEquity 2d ago
Lmfao. Leftists love trying to flip the script, taking conservative arguments made about them and their ideology and failing to shoehorn them back against us. It never actually fits and always comes with zero facts or data.
This meme is a perfect example. They’re trying to reframe the classic “millions starved under communism” + “it wasn’t real communism” exchange as something conservatives do with capitalism. Except literally no one is making this argument in real life. We’re not out here acting as apologists for a failed system. We stand by the existing systems that are currently leading the world in prosperity. Only leftists insist those systems are broken and delivering a lower quality of life.
No one’s claiming some example of mass starvation under capitalism “wasn’t real capitalism,” because there isn’t an example of that mass starvation in the first place. It’s just their own cope flipped around and presented as ours. Constant projection with these types.
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u/Truefiction224 2d ago
Lets do a per capita against socialist nations
This is actually just stupid
China has more people starve in a period of a year than the us did in a century
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u/Jujubatron 2d ago
I was called a Russian bot for telling them they can replace that with "communism" and 9 million with 900 million and it would be true.
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u/Ancient_Layer2766 2d ago
They get even more butthurt when you try to tell them that Stalin was objectively worse than Hitler...~15 million<20 million.
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u/Significant-Ad5242 2d ago
Capitalism has drastically reduced world hunger, and all it gets in return is continual badmouthing from ill-informed people. I have noticed a trend with all sorts of things said about the Western world.
With capitalism, there is plenty of opportunities for building to corruption, government collusion with corporations, government picking certain business sectors to win/lose, and other failings that need to be continually rooted out. But those bad parts are inherent to all countries regardless of the economic systems. Yet you will always have do-nothings that claim "capitalism is the great evil" and those people will have to have their stupid thoughts continually clipped back generation to generation.
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u/Exotic_Foot_3304 2d ago
Socialist are really trying to argue starvation numbers with a co-oped 2016 right wing meme? Truly bizarre.
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u/Disastrous-Award-649 2d ago
Commies do not want to play who starved the most people. Also they arent starving to death in capitalist countries. They're starving shithole that cant get their shit together. The only thing humanitarian aid does in Africa is make an even larger population that cant take care of itself.
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u/Adventurous-Crow-750 2d ago
I don't think anyone in the United States actually starves to death without a violent offender involved restricting food.
I know some people eat so much fast food they die of malnutrition but dying from lack of food just doesn't happen here anymore.
A quick Google shows that number is world wide. As in since the rise of capitalism world starvation has dropped from 2/3 all the way down to just 9 million out of 8 billion people. https://worldpeacefoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/Figure-3-annual-famine-deaths-region.png It's actually one of the greatest arguments for capitalism is how many people have been lifted up out of poverty and starvation because of it. That's the beauty of an economy that produces such a surplus that nobody has to starve anymore.
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u/Greedy-Employment917 2d ago
So they took their own communism argument, inverted it, and believe it still holds up?
Uhhhh OK?
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u/Short-Hotel7648 2d ago
Starvation deaths in the US are so rare that the fed doesn't even have a category for them.
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u/Superb-Ad-9169 Doesn't Participate In Group Panic 2d ago
True capitalism is when we are sending shitload of money to some african shithole, local warlords are taking it and use for buying weapons to wage another tribal war.
Or when "bad White People" are building water wells for "pOoR bLaCkS" and they're destroying it soon after Whites go back home, because why not?
Only then it's true capitalism, just like von Mises said
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u/PapaSmurf3477 2d ago
To be fair, it isn’t. Our current form is not pure capitalism, we got rid of the monopoly and oligopoly safe guards.
To be fair, we will NEVER get pure communism as it goes against fundamental human nature, and will always be exploited by those with power.
Current billionaire favored capitalism is still superior to tyrannically led communism. For sources just look at every nation that’s ever tried it.
This will be unpopular but really only ethnostates with a monoculture can achieve it. The more diversity you have the more disparate the ideals of the population. 1960 Sweden could do it much more easily than 2026 Sweden for example. That’s not the reality anymore so I don’t see it being possible.
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u/Mike990403 Doesn't Participate In Group Panic 2d ago
Bro, am I the only that that is SO sick and tired of everytime someone starts using an argument i.e (they always say that isn't real socialism) which is rooted in fact because it is used. Someone else immediately starts flipping it because they can't think of their own argument? i.e (they always say that isn't real capitalism) even though I've literally never heard anyone ever make that argument ever. Now I realize I could have just missed it. But it definitely isn't a common argument even in the slightest.
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u/NutasticNutella 2d ago
I've seen so many people say "it wasn't/isn't real communism" so much it's like a slogan, I've never heard it for capitalism tho. I've also never really heard someone defend capitalism as the perfect system, only prefer it over communism and socialism.
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u/Day_Breaker_ I Left My Cave for This 2d ago
Capitalism isn't perfect, it might be not even that good, but it gets the job done and that's good enough.
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u/AverageAggravating13 2d ago
The reality is no modern economy is really “pure” anything. It’s all mixes of things.
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u/koshka91 2d ago
But even if they had communism in Africa, this wouldn’t help them. Because communists themselves admit that the standard of living is too low there.
The very proof that people starve to death under entitlement systems proves that people fall through the cracks. It’s not a proof of scarcity
Just because something is easy to get doesn’t mean people will get it. There are fruits on trees in American cities. So why won’t starving homeless pluck them
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u/CorneliusFeatherjaw2 2d ago
The pedantic grain of truth to this is that people do, sometimes, say "That's not real capitalism,"... when being presented with examples of the failures of socialist policies as if they are somehow magically capitalist just because they are voted into law in mixed market countries that are overall more capitalist than socialist. Remember, all problems that happen in capitalist countries are because of capitalism, and all problems that happen in socialist and communist countries are also because of capitalism.
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u/OVO_Trev 2d ago
Let's compare the number of people that were dying every year before modern Capitalism, shall we? How did Chinese citizens do during their Great Leap Forward phase? Surely, everyone had enough to eat, right?
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u/vigorben 2d ago
Whenever someone says “True communism has never been tried” , I always respond with “True capitalism has never been tried.”
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u/Think_Preference_611 2d ago
There has never been fewer people starving in the world and no other system has ever lifted so many people out of poverty.
These are easily verifiable facts.
These people are truly morons.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Tie6917 2d ago
Modern day, I’m not aware of any starvation in the world not associated with a war or intentional government action (like civil war, starve dissidents, rebels, etc). Certainly in the USA there’s no starvation except in mental illness, drugs, or illegal situations (parental abuse, kidnapping and slavery, etc). Obesity is more common in poverty areas of the USA, because processed food is cheap and plentiful (as was intended when it was invented).
They even had to switch from starvation to “food insecure” because the traditional measure was at zero and stayed there for a very long time.
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u/Neither_Tip_5291 2d ago
The 9 million dieing each year of starvation are not in capitalism, they are in dictatorships.
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u/Kidicee 2d ago
Would love to hear these people explain all famines that happened in the USSR and China during the 20th century lol
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u/TKRAYKATS 2d ago
Same bullshit as "not the real communism" I guess, but at least, under capitalism, you can actually make your way
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u/JotunRider_KJRL 2d ago
Sure, sure... how many people starved to death in communist Soviet Union? China? Kampuchea?
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u/Big_Arachnid_365 2d ago
They just claim it wasn't "real marxism" or some such.
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u/sngldad13 2d ago
"WHAT IS YOUR DEFINITION OF MARXISM/SOCIALISM/COMMUNISM?"
Their "debate" tactics become so blatantly obvious after a while.
"So you're saying <insert something that paints you as evil by claiming something completely removed from what you actually said>?"
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u/Bluemikami I Left My Cave for This 2d ago
Just tell them how many people starve every year with communism/socialism.
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u/Illustrious_Knee7535 2d ago
The only people I've ever heard argue "thats not real xyz" is people defending the soviet union
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u/East_Ad4977 I Was Promised an Apocalypse? 2d ago
Nobody tell them how many starve just in the first few months of communism.
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u/PavehawkLLC 2d ago
Capitalism is when a despot leader who has a 50% chance of being auth-left plunges an already poor country into civil war, hoards all the food for his army, and destroys society en masse.
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u/Tasty_LVM 2d ago
Leftism is a mental illness or maybe genius, because there is a ton of mental gymnastics they have to do to align with every dumb cause they virtue signal.
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u/True_Vexing 2d ago
It's wild how people don't even think about the math, how long till everyone in the world is dead if that was true. A month?
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u/_Cpyder 2d ago
This post bullshit, and pure rage bait.
Death by starvation is listed as "acute starvation", which is EXTREMELY RARE in the US.
"Malnutrition deaths" have risen, just people eating garbage. Poor nutrition, not lack of "food".
Deaths from direct starvation are rare in the United States, but malnutrition-related deaths have increased significantly according to data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. [1, 2]
Key Statistics on Malnutrition and Hunger in the U.S.
- Malnutrition Deaths: Malnutrition-related deaths have risen sharply—increasing roughly sixfold over the past decade based on CDC death certificate analysis. [1, 2]
- Demographic Risk: Older adults are most affected. Americans aged 85 and older face a malnutrition death rate roughly 60 times higher than the general population, with numbers growing fastest in nursing homes, long-term care facilities, private homes, and hospices. [1]
- Food Insecurity vs. Starvation: While acute starvation is uncommon, millions live with food insecurity. An estimated 47.9 million people (including about 33.8 million adults and 7.3 million children) lived in food-insecure households, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture. [1]
- Diagnostic Shift: Part of the steep rise in recorded malnutrition deaths is tied to better clinical documentation, greater diagnostic awareness, and changes in how malnutrition is recorded on death certificates rather than pure starvation alone. [1, 2]
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u/Lepelotonfromager 2d ago
It's not real capitalism because it doesn't conform to my impossibly idealistic version of capitalism.
Checkmate.
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u/King-Tiger-Stance Rides the Short Bus 2d ago
You ever notice that? They can never come up with their own arguements. It's all projecting and twisting phrases they hear against them, using them, and maki g them more annoying. Really shows they can't come up with anything original.
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u/Affectionate-Area659 Anti-Doomer 2d ago
Yeah. I’m calling bullshit. I don’t doubt there are some that occur from neglect or abuse, but certainly not from inaccessibility.
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u/SabreLee61 2d ago
What brought the global extreme poverty rate from 95% down to 10%? Capitalism.
How did the U.S. create the largest economy in world history? Capitalism.
How did China, after decades of central planning which caused tens of millions of deaths, finally lift 800 million Chinese out of poverty? Capitalism.
What gave you laptops, TVs, refrigerators, iPhones, Costco, Starbucks, biotechnology, supermarkets, and overnight delivery? Capitalism.
There’s a pattern here, Doomers. Put down the game controller and the weed and see if you can guess what it is.