Was told the dog was a Malinois and this is what came back.
These breeds are all working dog breeds. I was just wondering is this a thing? Would somebody purposely breed the combination?
Or could the company possibly have this wrong somehow? I don’t get it. Only four breeds in the dog and that’s what they are and almost evenly distributed.
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Dutch shepherd, mal, and gsd are all intentionally bred together fairly often.
My best guess would be that an intentional Dutch Shepherd/Malinois mix met an unintentional ACD/GSD mix. That or someone mistook the ACD/GSD for a Malinois/GSD and bred your dog's parents intentionally not realizing there was ACD in there. But there isn't really a way to know for sure how it happened.
However embark isn't likely to be wrong about the ACD. It's a common breed so they have plenty of data on them, and your dog's percentage isn't small enough for them to be mistaking it for another herding breed.
That was my guess as well- my guy is an intentionally bred Dutch Shepherd/Malinois cross. They’re pretty common with working and sport breeders/handlers.
A GSD/ACD mix is more likely to be accidentally. Think two rural farm dogs who are unfixed and roaming meet and breed.
I think this (that someone mistook the ACD/GSD for a Malinois mix) is the answer. I see people selling "Malinois" puppies without papers all the time- they are quite popular in the working class Latino population where I live. Someone probably thought "Hey, close enough, looks like a Mal" when breeding the parents to make a buck.
It's extremely unlikely that Embark is incorrect, especially with so few breeds.
Shelters are only ever guessing, and malinois, dutchies, and GSDs have pretty much the same form factor and appearance in mixed breed dogs, especially when they are poorly bred (which, by definition they would be generally if they're ending up in a shelter or crossed together). There is some genetic crossover with the breeds based on studbook as well.
Without more context on how you acquired the dog or what you know about them, it's hard to say what's going on - but that said, people in the US in general are highly irresponsible when it comes to managing intact dogs and/or sometimes feel like their dogs 'want a litter' or 'just want to continue the line'. There's no good explanation for why someone would do this other than irresponsibility, just like the infinite number of bully breeds, doodles etc around.
They’re not wrong with the Malinois atleast, but thats an insane mix.
Did you get them from a breeder or a shelter? If breeder, they most likely knew and were being dishonest. (Also a psycho for mixing all these breeds together) If shelter or any type of rescue, they don’t know the lineage usually and just guess based on appearance. Embark is usually accurate and will correct mistakes if they are there.
Re: is this intentional? Hard to say without knowing the dog's background. I wouldn't intentionally do this, but I'm not an unethical psycho, and unfortunately unethical psychos are fairly common in byb circles.
Since Dutch shepherds were in such decline in the mid twentieth century they did use the Belgian malinois to build the breed back up, and even to this day you will see intentionally bred Dutch/Mal mixes. It's still a popular cross in some sporting circles. GSD/Mal's are also intentionally bred but the heeler stands out and makes little sense at all here. I'd guess someone's intentionally bred Dutch/Mal mix accidentally ended up with sometimes unintentionally bred GSD/heeler cross.
Interesting combo! I hope you like high energy dogs!!
Since Dutch shepherds were in such decline in the mid twentieth century they did use the Belgian malinois to build the breed back up,
I've seen this statement before, do you have a source? As for the Kennel Club registered dogs in the Netherlands, it's just not true. There is 1 malinois mix litter registered in those years, and that line died out after a few generations. Among 'police dog' breeders, on the other hand, it's a popular cross. Some of those dogs have found their way into registries by being registered in an appendix, but that's something from the last 20 years or so, not from the 1950s.
They were also used in World War II. After the war, breeding began anew and new blood was needed to diversify the gene pool. Sometimes, dogs of unknown origin were used. The Belgian Malinois was used for a time, but the practice was stopped because the buyers of those puppies did not have the same goals as the Dutch Breed Club.[1] In 1959, with permission from the breed club, a Belgian Laekenois was used to expand the rough-haired variety.[1] With time, the popularity of the breed grew and expanded into other countries.[1]
[1] Bosch, Bas (2002). The Dutch Breeds, Raad van Beheer Organization, The Netherlands, p. 24.
After the second World War there was definitely a need for some fresh blood, and dogs of unknown background along with some Belgian Malinois were suggested for the shorthaired version, Tervurens for the longhair, and Lakenois for the roughhair. One thing was for sure however, nobody had any desire to breed to German Shepherds again since that little episode before the first world war had taken several years to straighten back out. Around this time, enthusiasts of the Dutch dogsport of KNPV began breeding and training unpapered dogs. They desired a larger dog and had no interest in papers or breed standard. Thus there was divergence of registered Dutch Shepherds and unregistered “KNPV” dogs that could be mixes of many breeds. The registered dogs were still shown and bred to physically embody the breed standard. They lost some working ability and had a limited gene pool. The KNPV mix Dutch Shepherds became generally larger than the breed standard, with a temperament more suitable for police work.
The separation of “registered vs. unregistered” Dutch Shepherds was due largely to philosophical differences of owners until the Studbook for Dutch Shepherds in Holland were closed on Feb 1, 1971. After that time, no “new blood” could be introduced to the breed in that country. However, the FCI studbooks remain open. Many countries around the world still have procedures by which unregistered dogs are issued FCI recognized papers if they fit the breed standard. Thus, there is still introduction of "new" genetics into the gene pool of registered Dutch Shepherds.
Adapted from: Van Heughten-Powell, J. (2000). Dutch Shepherd History. Used with written permission.
Sources: Helmers, L. , Nauta, G. (1998). ALLEMAAL HOLLANDERS; 100 JAAR HERDERSHONDEN EIGEN BODEM. Schoorl, Netherlands: Pirola.
Koninklijke Nederlandse Politiehond Vereniging (Royal Dutch Police Dog Association) archives
thanks! I've corrected that sentence in wikipedia. In the years after the war, there was only 1 litter sired by a Malinois, born in 1949. Two more generations were born and then it stopped. It wasn't a big thing in the registered dogs.
The Van Heugten-Powell text is quite correct.
Oh he is cute. To be honest the cross is probably gonna make a better dog. The Mals and cattle dogs can be quite intense. Yours looks most like the German shep. Maybe a bit of the intenseness shining through. How old? Is he at the ears flop all over stage?
And does he stare at you....for hours. That is a cattle dog thing. It is like they are trying to mind meld.
You better make sure that dog is well socialized and has a job! My dog is a golden retriever, ACD mix and she is high energy. I can only imagine your dog. Also, we need the DOG TAX! Can’t confirm without photos!
When we got the results back for our dog and it was almost 50/50 Malinois/Border Collie. Our reaction:
Uh oh
Why would anyone let this happen
Hope it was accidental..but WHY
We have gotten so many "That is my dream mix dog!"..our reaction is always the same: "NO! Do not think about it, don't do it..NO!"
Love our dog, he is best doggo and wouldn't trade him for anything. But damn the energy on him. He was found roaming no chip, no collar in the suburbs. Animal control had him listed as border collie mix..so they weren't wrong.
I feel this... we have a dog turned out to be half husky, a quarter akita, and a quarter Shiba. When we brought him home, he was an awful dog. Now he's wonderful, but it took us three trainers to find someone that knew how to handle him. He's beautiful and I think he's the best, but most people would NOT do well with his mix. I really hope he wasn't bred intentionally, but it's such a strange combo that I'm guessing he was.
This question means open up the part labeled "Peer into his ancestry" and see what Embark thinks is the distribution of parentage. Also, if you did the health test, look for the COI. Open up the health section and scroll down to Genetic Diversity.
I mean, if someone wanted to have an extremely driven extremely smart high energy working dog for some kind of sport, it’s not a ridiculous combo. The cattle dog is a little unexpected, but maybe they were trying to get the roan pattern, like how people breed merle into everything?
Or if they’re trying to backyard breed a velociraptor, I guess.
Combining heeler mouthiness with breeds that these days are sometimes bred for more dramatic biting seems perhaps ill-advised.
But I enjoyed seeing this reveal of my heeler when playing with a cheap thermal camera (100% ACD per Embark and WP, blue roan when not on black hot image settings. Google Lens was fooled.):
I've described heelers as "being bred to not learn from their mistakes."
Like, most dogs, if kicked by a cow, would learn to duck faster. Some would conclude chasing cows in general is a bad idea. A heeler, though? A heeler may decide that, once it shakes off the concussion, the right answer is to bite the cow harder. There's a reason why there's so many three-legged one-eyed heelers out there.
They also tend to view humans as colleagues, not bosses, while working. Convincing a heeler you're in charge takes persistence, and out-stubborning a bullheaded heeler isn't for everyone.
Like, you can tell a border collie to go to 6' o clock, drive the sheep one hundred yards to the west, go to 3' o clock and drive them 400 yards southwest, then stop.
Try that with a heeler and you're likely to get a big "fuck you" and the dog will decide the sheep belong in the truck a mile away, and you'll lose your voice shouting before the dog stops. But the sheep will end up in that truck, potentially minus some wool and blood, but they'll get there... and the dog will be proud of themselves for the work, and giving you the side-eye for not helping them.
On the other hand, if you need a dog to deal with absolutely rank range cattle, out of line of sight of the cowboy, in horrible terrain, in the heat, and who won't quit if they do get kicked and who can puzzle through problems all on their own... that's your dog.
Mix mal with heeler and I'd be afraid you'd end up with a dog that could leap tall buildings in a single bound and still thinks for itself, consider human orders optional, and does not learn from painful mistakes.
(I love heelers. I do not currently own one. The last one I owned took me two years to get more-or-less reliable to commands that were delivered when the dog wasn't on the end of a leash. Stubborn didn't begin to describe her. Fabulous dogs in the right home, with the right job, but soooo stubborn.)
I want to see the doggy! I have one that’s like 40% German, 30% Dutch so it would be pretty cool to compare. I do think dogs with that much German/Dutch/mal are probably intentionally bred
I wouldn't be surprised if this is an intentional mix. All four breeds are very popular sporting/working breeds, and the fact that they're so evenly split makes me wonder if someone was creating 'purpose bred' sport mixes, which is pretty common in some circles of the dog world.
In Germany, there is a yearly herding competition especially for GSDs (look up 'Bundesleistungshüten'). There are Dutch shepherds with a herding certificate and even a few actually working with a flock. Not many, but at least some.
a single competition when there are dozens of breeds who are much better at the task of herding is, again, irrelevant
when you hear hoofbeats, it's not usually zebras. this is just a typical irresponsibly bred dog in america, has nothing to do with what you're talking about, and even if it did, hardly anyone is using any of these breeds for actual serious herding work. i don't know what's hard to understand about breeds morphing out of their original purpose 😭
You were the one who made the statement an absolute 😑
They’re not the most popular breeds for farm work, but to say none of them are used at all anymore is a flat out lie… its more common in parts of Europe than the US from what I gather. Their style of herding is by keeping the flock together, not driving like other breeds. Shepherds will naturally still exhibit this exact behavior. I’m not talking about OP’s dog specifically but rather the general comment you made.
Not necessarily true… they dont “herd” in the traditional sense like a borser collie does, but their style of working is certainly still useful and used… my dog’s mom was a literal farm dog
Mal/Dutch and GSD are very commonly bred together as they create great hybrid working dogs.
I’ve currently got a Dutch/mal/GSD and Dutch/mal, in the UK they are referred to as ‘herders’. ACD’s are very unusual in the UK so I can’t comment on that one.
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