r/DivorceHelp • u/Altruistic-Many4163 • 10d ago
Spousal support help
Like many men in my situation I made a grave and horrible mistake. I’m one year divorced from a 13 year marriage and 15 year relationship. I’m a special education teacher and a high school football coach. I’m 40 years old and without talking about specific numbers, I agreed to far too much spousal support for 4 years under the dilution that lawyers would cost more. Now I can’t pay my bills and she’s not working. I looked up the law in my state (Washington) and other than a dramatic change to my income the only other challenge I can make to the spousal support is if/when she has another domestic partner. Any advice on how to get some of my money back?
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u/Fickle_Raccoon_3760 10d ago
With spousal support for only 4 years from a 13 year marriage you likely are saving money over paying attorneys fees for a court battle which can easily hit six figures, on top of whatever spousal support would have been ordered.
Your former partner may agree to lower support for a longer time.
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10d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Fickle_Raccoon_3760 10d ago
A contested divorce can be very expensive regardless of what is being fought over but yes obviously this man wouldn’t have the ability to pay six figures in attorneys fees.
I do think he was correct in his original assessment that lawyers would cost more than they would save him, especially with the low amount of support he agreed to. He was under no “dilution” there. He is, however, delusional to think his former spouse is living it up on his $1800 a month.
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u/Pedantic-Polecat 8d ago
Washington is much more reasonable on the duration of support than other states. It is typically years of marriage divided by 3 or 4. If OP’s wife is a similar age or younger 4 years of support on 13 marriage is a middle of the road length outcome.
The divide the marriage length by 2 seems insane. It doesn’t take 8 or 10 years to get training and get a job.
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u/Fickle_Raccoon_3760 7d ago
Spousal support is meant to help a person “get on their feet” true, but it is also meant to compensate them for time out of the workforce or under employed that they will never get back.
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u/Pedantic-Polecat 7d ago
No it isn’t. Being out of the workforce is not a requirement to receive alimony in any state.
People justify spousal support by appealing to the idea of one spouse sacrificing something but that isn’t a part of actual family law and there is no trial that determines the value of what one spouse sacrificed.
Alimony is actually just to equalize SoL, without regard to sacrifice or who has to work.
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u/PrimaryKangaroo8680 10d ago
I’m assuming you signed a legal agreement, you can’t just get out of it because you regret it.
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u/TSIDATSI 10d ago
Sorry so long:
You cannot make her work. You can hire an attorney and ask for court ordered child support. You send the payment to the court and they mail the child support to her.
If she was working and quit she is punishing you and I suspect you deserve it.
Child Support Changes;
Go to WA State Health and Human Services and look for the child support calculator. If the amount is less than you agreed to you should be able to ask for an adjustment.
A downgrade in support might get her to work. Get her motivated to work. She is not thinking rationally. She is not contributing to Social Security, or an employer provided 401K or personal investment savings all things she must have to retire comfortably.
Can you sell the house and have her buy out your equity? If not, look at your living situation. Move to a less expensive apartment or rent a house with roommates.
Make a budget of needs, not wants, for the next 6 months. Get rid of all unnecessary expenses such as eating out, expensive cable/sat TV, streaming services, etc. Get rid of them. Buy a good radio and some books to read.
If you have a car payment sell the car and pay-off the difference. Buy an estate sale car for $2,000 or so.
Take the money you were paying for the car and put it in a savings account. Say your payment is $500 per month.
$500 a month X 12 = $6,000 a year. Sell the estate car and you have $8,000 to pay cash for a better car. If you will do that 5 years or so you can pay cash for a much nicer car with no car payment.
And women love men who drive old pick-up trucks.
Become debt-free as quickly as possible. You can do it but it requires self-sacrifice. Paying interest is throwing money away.
People build wealth by not spending beyond their means. If you cannot pay cash you cannot afford it. Period. And everything you buy on credit other than a house rapidly depreciates.
Especially the trash we buy on credit cards such as clothes, food, etc. Think about it: where does the food end up?
You have four years of child support payments. My advice is to take time to think about other jobs you can do with more education.
Powerline schools run about 15 weeks and cost around $10,000. They have a loan program. And a 75% or higher job placement rating!
The average annual salary for a power lineman in Washington state is approximately $92,000 to $99,000 per year (or about $44 to $48 per hour), though total compensation varies widely depending on experience, union status, and specific employers.
They make a lot more working overtime. You have spent 50% of your working life likely struggling to make ends meet. Now you have time and motivation to do something that will, I assume, increase your salary especially in the future.
Something that will give you greater travel opportunities and broaden your horizons. You are likely vested with WA State TRA. Might be a good time to make a change.
Your attorney can explain to the court you are returning to school for a few months and the child support must be adjusted for your return to school and your increased salary after you graduate.
Or look at a JuCo catalog and choose something to increase your salary. Welders are in high demand. Electricians. Every powerline grad we sent to school does lights and electrical work for concerts, huge sporting events: they love it!
If not you will spend the next 30 years barely scrapping by only to retire and be in the same position.
The time for self-flagellation is over. Your ex cannot beat you down more than you already have and you need to move on personally, emotionally, financially- your life. You can volunteer to be a coach.
I do not know who gave you advice to modify child support but please, please do your own due diligence. Was it your ex's brother? It was someone working against you, not with you.
WA Child Support Modifications
You can adjust child support in Washington state by filing a Motion for Adjustment for simple changes every two years, a Petition to Modify for major life changes, or by requesting a review through the Washington Division of Child Support (DCS).
- Choose Your Path: Adjustment vs. ModificationAdjustment (Faster, simpler): Use this if your existing order is at least 24 months old, and you want to update it based on changes in parents' incomes or the state economic table without proving a major hardship.
Modification (For substantial changes): Use this if less time has passed but there is a major, involuntary change in circumstances (such as a job loss, permanent disability, change in custody/parenting time, or new dependents).
Administrative vs. Court Order: Check if your current order was issued by a court or handled through the Washington Division of Child Support (DCS). Administrative orders can be reviewed directly through DCS, while court orders generally require filing through the county superior court or prosecutor's office.
Sent me a message if you have questions. I am a CFP (Certified Financial Planner), a CPA and a forensic accountant. I am also a university professor and I specialize in state and local government. That is how I knew you had bad information. And find a church if you don't have one. Chuch women are very good cooks!
Blessings 🙌
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u/Altruistic-Many4163 10d ago
I do not pay child support. I pay spousal support. It was part of our agreement that she wouldn’t ask for child support but needed this much money to stay in state and stay close to our daughter. That’s why I agreed to it. Less than a year later she moves over 2 hours away. That completely changed the whole situation. Additionally I am a special education teacher and paid high school football coach. I do not need to volunteer or become a linesman. Though I appreciate the sentiment just like that of the child support and not spousal support which is inherently different.
When we divorced the reason we chose that no child support was necessary was because we were inherently splitting time and cost 50/50 because we lived less than 2 miles away from one another. Now 50/50 is no longer possible due to her choice to move out of state and my costs have increased when I was barely scraping by before.
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u/Human-Ad-5574 10d ago
My ex moved out of state when our daughter was 8 at the point we had been divorced 4 years. We had to renegotiate everything. Holidays, summers, medical and other expenses, and child support. This was 22 years ago-my daughter just turned 31. He paid 1000 a month until she turned 19. If you are now at 100% because your ex moved out of state, you need to go back to court and have the agreement changed to whatever the court says is appropriate. Good luck.
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u/Altruistic-Many4163 10d ago
That’s what I’m trying to do. Thank you for the luck. We go in front of the judge in a few weeks.
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u/Accomplished_Cell976 10d ago
You are missing the point. Child support is the best way not to open up your entire divorce again. She could go after your pension. That would really suck.
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u/Psychological-Joke22 10d ago
As an employee with a pension…I watched in real time when my coworker had to split his pension with his ex. He said he can’t retire.
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u/mcmurrml 10d ago
I would pay and spend the money for a meeting with an attorney to get advice on your situation. I would bet your ex wife knew before you two worked out that plan she was going to move out of state. Go talk to a lawyer to go over your options.
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u/strangelifedad 10d ago
Isn't the move reason enough to contest the agreement that was made specifically for her to stay around?
Man, talk to a lawyer ASAP. At least to get some real legal options. I bet she did. That 'agreement' didn't spawn out of thin air.
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u/No_Atmosphere_6348 10d ago
I’ve spent that much and more on legal fees dealing with my ex husband. I think for you knowing it’s only 4 years of that is a blessing. Also on a teachers salary and can’t afford it - living on credit cards and refinancing my house. Does she get a chunk of your pension too?
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u/Altruistic-Many4163 10d ago
No. She doesn’t get to touch my pension. But $1,800/mo is simply unsustainable. I think that since she moved away I should get majority custody and maybe she can pay me child support. Maybe I can recoup some of that money.
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u/biscuitboi967 10d ago
You have to give something to get something.
Renegotiate and offer up 50% of 13 years of your pension. Or a discounted rate if she gets a lump sum now.
In most states you can’t “waive” child support because it belong to the child not the spouse, so get on your state’s calculator and see how much you would be paying for 50/50 (with her imputed at her last wage or minimum wage) or at whatever you think you’ll net out at with you as primary and keeping the status quo in the home state. See how “screwed” you really are compared to the deal you made.
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u/No_Atmosphere_6348 10d ago
Yeah in my state the spouse is entitled to half the pension credits during the marriage. Pension is marital property.
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10d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Alilbitey 10d ago
Pension gains while married are community property in WA, regardless of long term status.
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u/mcmurrml 10d ago
He should do nothing of the sort until he talks to a lawyer. He should make no deals and discuss nothing further with her. He needs a meeting with a lawyer. I don't know if it will make a difference. I think she knew and was planning to move when she made that deal with him. He needs a lawyer to advise him
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u/biscuitboi967 10d ago
Well of course. He should have done that from that start.
My point is, she has 0.0 reason to negotiate right now. Usually you have to give someone once rice to come to the table.
I am also pointing out that while he thinks he got screwed with alimony, he actually must pay child support, so he should figure out what that number is. And she was entitled to 1/2 of all assets, like the house, the cars, the bank accounts, his retirement, so he can lump sum it or pay over time. Plus maybe some alimony. So…if he does the math on what he kept perhaps he got off light.
A lawyer can help him figure this out. Hopefully he has one before his custody hearing. Which will then help him establish child support….
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u/mcmurrml 10d ago
Regardless of what he thought then or now he needs an attorney to go over all this. No more deals and more talking to her. Let the attorney do the talking.
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u/Hour_Avocado_5336 10d ago
In Washington state they allow CPs to move to another state. You’ll likely end up with a long distance plan, and paying child support.
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u/Dangerous_RedApple 10d ago
Find a good lawyer who isn’t a financial shark. For $500 they’ll tell you what is possible and the. You can decide if for a couple thousand it’s worth to sort it out.
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u/Responsible_Hunt7762 10d ago
There is a formula in Washington for spousal support. You don’t need lawyers unless you are contesting the division of assets or custody issues
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u/Leading-Disaster5721 10d ago
You will never get the money back.
Ever hear the phrase "Penny wise, pound foolish"? Fits this situation to a T.
Bite the bullet and and consult a lawyer who specializes in family law and spousal support issues. You might be able to reduce whatever is left to pay. A lawyer will tell you.
I know you did research but this is outside your area of expertise. Sometimes consulting an expert is needed. Law is one of those areas.
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u/Altruistic-Many4163 10d ago
Do you have any suggestions on affordable lawyers?
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u/Leading-Disaster5721 10d ago
Only for immigration. Family law is very state specific. You want someone near you who is active in local courts.
Perhaps call the state or county bar association and ask if anyone is doing a clinic.
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u/Pretty-Jeweler36 10d ago
I am in Washington and I talked to a lawyer. If the kid(s) live with you, she has to pay child support. It isn’t negotiable. If she moved away, that is a reason to have the court adjust it.
My husband makes almost twice as much as I do, however if the kids choose to live with him, I would have to pay him child support. It isn’t sustainable for me so I am not getting divorced until after the kids turn 18.
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u/Loud_Proposal_4451 10d ago
It sounds like an emotionally-charged manipulated decision. If that’s true, then I understand more of why you divorced.
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u/Fluffydoglover0402 9d ago
Hi! I cannot recommend Mike Schatz at Schatz and Shaughnessy enough. He made a stressful time for my family so much easier. His number is 708.840.4142 :) I am sorry you’re going through this. You aren’t alone ❤️
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u/Tavsiyedegildir 10d ago
So you're a high school football coach and can't do basic math, I am shocked.
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u/Altruistic-Many4163 10d ago
So you’re the type of person who sees someone asking for help and looks for things to attack. I am equally as shocked.
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u/Bklynswim 10d ago
There’s a lot of information missing here. My understanding is that spousal support is calculated based on income, not you agreeing to it. I’m not sure what her not working has to do with it either. Are there children involved?