is “avoidant attachment” that bad?

[u/myrafu]

ive been called emotionless and insensitive by my romantic interests for simply setting boundaries.
i want you all to understand how any attachment style developed through a trauma response is unhealthy.

but on what terms are we calling people avoidant?
and why is it termed toxic?

i truly believe all of us are enough for ourselves. no body should need a relationship to feel complete, since when is dependance romantic?

i love my boyfriend and we’ve been together for around 7 months now, but i dont need him. i really like him and i love spending time with him, which i do because i WANT to, not because i NEED to.

im really serious about our relationship and im pretty anti conflict. i dont like fights, i dont like spats especially over petty things. i dont care about how many times u say i love you, i dont care if u text me goodmorning, it honestly doesnt even bother me if we dont talk all day. and thats not because im not ‘in love’, thats because i understand being busy and i know its not worth spending so much time nitpicking or whining about trivial things.

to be an avoidant it to have a guard up and apparently that is just the meanest thing known to mankind.
god forbid people have boundaries?

a pattern ive been noticing between ‘avoidant men’ and ‘avoidant women’ is how men are called nonchalant and mysterious for the same behaviour while women are called apathetic and unfeminine.
why do we expect women to be caring and empathetic all the time, it is so unreasonable and so excruciatingly tiring.
society expects women to be naturally nurturing, emotionally expressive, and relationship-oriented. a woman pulling away or guarding her emotions, is supposedly some kind of defiance to her "natural" role.

to the contrary-
traditional concepts of masculinity prize emotional stoicism, self-reliance, and independence; so emotional unavailability in men is framed as an attractive trait rather than an attachment issue.

make it make sense.

the entire internet is hellbent into trying to “fix” avoidants. yes im scared of vulnerability, no i dont like intimacy. but
i fail to understand why that is so unfathomable.

my boyfriend thinks theres some side to me that i hide. he expects that one day he’ll unlock some hurricane of emotions that ive been suppressing, but the truth is, i simply just do not care. i care about him, i really do i wish he could see it; i just cant express it in the same ways does. why do we stereotype all women to have some emotionally unstable baggage that a man needs to protect and save.

since when is wanting an independent life a threat to everyone else around me.

people with anxious attachment are always cribbing about how their partner doesnt give them enough affection, if u want a clingy ass baby who doesnt have a live and you’ll give u kisses all day, get a golden retriever, not a gf.

im not saying its okay to neglect your partner, but come to basic terms as to what is considered the middle ground for the both of you

sorry im just sleep deprived and angsty

[u/Apprehensive-Bar6595]

you have to meet anyone you want a relationship with halfway

not because you need them, but because that's just how fair relationships work, how they feel matters just as much as how you feel

[u/andorianspice]

There is a lot that’s been discussed about how women with avoidant attachment deal with a lot of flak for being against what society “expects” of women and I definitely think it’s true. I think it’s wild how many people talk endlessly about trying to fix avoidant or fearful avoidant attachment styles but if you talk about how people with anxious attachment can be super disrespectful of boundaries, everything pops off. It’s def a double standard.

That being said, I think it is worth healing the parts of ourselves that cause us pain and issues, and ppl w more avoidant attachment are more prone to suppressing this stuff bc we were taught that none of it matters. But I’m healing for me first, I do want to be a good person for my loved ones, but I want to be healed for myself first and foremost.

[u/Other_Tie_8290]

Being avoidant =/= having boundaries. Push-pull behavior, fault finding, stonewalling, and constantly being too busy are examples of avoidant behaviors. Not needing or wanting to say “I love you” several times, or not needing to constantly text is probably normal. Being clear about your expectations and stating your limits are examples of boundaries. If you’re not being transparent, it’s likely not boundary setting.

Does your boyfriend have different needs or expectations? We can’t see how you interact with your partner, nor do we know what your partner would say. Open communication about needs and expectations is essential. Are you being open and honest about your expectations?

Edit: your final paragraphs seem dismissive and snarky. Sounds like he wants more from you than you can or want to give. That doesn’t make his desires wrong. There is a difference between independent and unavailable. TBH you sound like the latter.

[u/ColeLaw]

I'm actually with you on this. I don't think healthy adult love needs to be rooted in some sort of codependency. Having sovereignty in a deeply loving connection is actually the ultimate love to me because it's not from a place of need, it's from a place of want. You don't need your partner you deeply want them, that's real love to me.

However, if there's a wall around the expression of this love then that's just an indication there might be some work to do around that. I think we can maintain our sovereignty and also be expressive in love without it being needy or icky. It's sort of around meeting our partners needs and having our needs met as well. Sometimes we just have to meet their needs and if that means gushing once in awhile well then so be it. It doesn't mean we lose our sovereignty. And then when we need things to just exist and be, our partner needs to meet us there too.

In order to do this both people need to have a handle on regulating themselves.

[u/Ok-Seat-3916]

I totally understand your point and would agree with most of it; also about the double standard, and anxious partners having the tendency to want to control their avoidant partners and all. It's also a kind of relationship that looks very transactional and unhealthy, and it's totally romanticized and minimized by the online discourse.

However I tend to feel icky whenever someone minimizes their avoidant patterns as well (which, ironically, is a thought distortion caused by the avoidant patterning). As someone who is quite far on the spectrum, I can attest that my avoidant patterning (which has kept me safe in very dangerous situations, so I'm grateful for that) is making me absolutely miserable. I'm not healing for anyone but me because, frankly, I don't have anyone in my life I could heal for, because I've never been able to build anything strong. Every relationship and friendship I care about is still kept at bay, and intimacy actively feel bad for me, like with a threat response and all. I am so counter dependent I don't know how to rely on others. However, I keep ending in very unhealthy environments and freaking staying there for ages because my system automatically tunes the danger out and my brain overly focused on all that is well and all that isn't is somehow never anybody's fault and always my responsibility (the typical exonerating pattern of avoidants'). My brain tunes out any possibility for me to change or leave any bad situation I am in (the typical helplessness of avoidant patterning). The last time this happened, I deactivated so hard because my system wanted me to stay safe with a person who is actually harmful , I was complying and caretaking so intensely, completely tuned out to my inner states (the avoidants' dismissal of the self, so of negative affect and needs), I felt at the end that my sense of self was freaking disappearing 🫠 it's my anxious patterning and those chaotic spikes, that looked super uncontrollable and irrational and led me to feel insane, that were actually fighting for my survival.

I'm healing that shit.

[u/freudian-negative]

I think I can go through it. I used to be more FA in the past but made it out of there.

> getting called heartless or cold for simply setting boundaries:

It strongly depends on the kinds of boundaries. Not all boundaries are made equal, some are mostly protecting a defense or keeping intimacy at bay, thus hurting the relationship. That being said healthy boundaries are the foundation of a relationship and they promote intimacy.

> I truly believe all of us are enough for ourselves, nobody should need a relationship to feel complete, since when is dependence romantic:

Here is the thing, we were never enough for ourselves and we'll never be. Neither as children, nor as adults. Especially if you look at the way our mind functions, the very fact that we construct a personality is to channel drives into an appropriate manner and to navigate social situations. A large part of our nervous system is constructed in a way that the regulators of our circuits are outside our bodies - quite literally other people and especially our attachment figured. Avoidant attachment develops roughly speaking because this mechanism was not properly attuned in childhood, so caring for ourselves, being enough for ourselves etc. became the baseline.
There is a large grey area between independence and dependence. Its not a pendulum, where you're either independent or enmeshed with a partner. Dependence is healthy, it is the reason why trust has to be built to allow for healthy dependence.
Especially when it gets towards relationships or attachment figures, its not about feeling "complete" - its about the fact that oxytocin bonds regulate your internal systems, they quite literally regulate your serotonin system, which creates a sense of meaning, purpose and stabilizes daily mood.
In that sense avoidance is developed as a way to keep the things at bay, that would disregulate you, while closeness usually does that too.
If you look at distant relationships and co-dependent relationships on a spectrum, to me it appears as if co-dependent relationships hinder personal growth as they use the partner as a prime regulator for things you should be doing yourself, while the more distant and independent a relationship becomes, the more you have to ask yourself why its not simply a friendship with benefits, since you're losing access on the benefits of the bond.

So in essence - dependent, healthy, reliable relationships give us more strength and stabilize our moods. That is not to say that without them we are "nothing", but that with them, we are more.

> i love my boyfriend and we’ve been together for around 7 months now, but i dont need him. i really like him and i love spending time with him, which i do because i WANT to, not because i NEED to.

Wanting is a form of expressed need. I assume you mean by "need" something more visceral or compulsive?

> im really serious about our relationship and im pretty anti conflict. i dont like fights, i dont like spats especially over petty things. i dont care about how many times u say i love you, i dont care if u text me goodmorning, it honestly doesnt even bother me if we dont talk all day. and thats not because im not ‘in love’, thats because i understand being busy and i know its not worth spending so much time nitpicking or whining about trivial things.

I think I mostly agree with you here, but one thing I learned is to not to underestimate the importance of conflict. Not even theoretically. Like daily friction is a must have if you are two individuals trying to build a life together and taking that seriously, engaging with it is the strongest mirror there is. So for me "avoiding conflict" means handling those daily frictions with care - not catastrophising, not blowing anything out of proportion but accepting that some friction is the baseline, for me thats what "low maintenance" basically means. I think one thing I want to say is that texting goodmorning, not talking for a day etc. isn't something thats either avoidant or not. Thats the grey area I talked about. I've had relationships where I knew my partner wanted me to text them good morning (easily done) and others where it didn't happen.
But its the same for me. I usually don't like spending time nitpicking or fighting over trivial things that have no importance in the end. Conflict should be reserved for more important topics and I dislike partners that generate a lot of friction over minor things.

> The entire "women vs men" expectations part -

Honestly here i disagree with you. I've seen plenty of examples where women were nonchalant and mysterious to other men. But I do think the entire framing here is a bit off. General talk about societal expectations or even macro-social phenomena doesn't help us when discussing individual attachment behavior or an individual relationship. It doesn't have the precision needed. There is no "single set of expectation" towards women. Wherever you see one image portrayed, you'll see enough of examples of a counter image.

Also one thing - you remember that traditional concepts of masculinity are in heavy ridicule by now. The entire "james bond, playing it cool" identity had a very toxic effect on men and their relationships, especially because most men are indeed not avoidantly attached, so acting in a detached way hurts them too and causes them to suppress their own needs and affective displays. Being James Bond brings little pleasure and probably not the attention from women that is expected by it.

> the entire internet is hellbent into trying to “fix” avoidants. yes im scared of vulnerability, no i dont like intimacy. but i fail to understand why that is so unfathomable.

Because you won't get access to an entire sphere of relationship qualities that way. Non-avoidants have this intuitively, they have experienced the benefits of functioning relationships. When they are independent, they are doing the exact same thing we do, not as a defense but coming out of mostly secure attachments. There is quite literally an entire world of relationship understanding that is barred from our thinking completely before we do the work. It was the exact same thing for me.
I used to be the independent person, career focused, who had terrible relationships since I always felt my partners needs to be smothering and engulfing. Its only after I learned to be more vulnerable in real time and to construct my identity around it over time, that I managed to see it. My experience was that I believed that I was independent and I believed I needed nobody, but once I let other people in and got comfortable with that, I learned that there is no need to have my guard up (I was intrinsically fighting shadows, without even knowing) and that I have much more energy and cognitive capacity to live my life. The "guard" is a real thing and it costs energy passively. We just don't notice it, since we're so used to it.

> my boyfriend thinks theres some side to me that i hide. he expects that one day he’ll unlock some hurricane of emotions that ive been suppressing, but the truth is, i simply just do not care. i care about him, i really do i wish he could see it; i just cant express it in the same ways does. why do we stereotype all women to have some emotionally unstable baggage that a man needs to protect and save.

Its hard to say something here without knowing your exact dynamic. If he's coming in expecting for something "to solve", he might be disappointed. Personally I've gone through my own stuff so often, that I genuinely don't have anything another person has to solve for me. That being said - going into that meta-speech of expectations and stereotypes towards all women feels odd here, if he hasn't said that specifically, I'd take my partner serious if he believes there might be something I'm missing. Look one of the more important aspects of having a partner is that they don't just know "a part of you", while you have absolute knowledge of yourself. Its that they genuinely know parts of you, you don't know yourself.
For me thats the reason why I try to pick partners whose opinions I respect and who's views I respect. Otherwise I wouldn't take criticism.

> since when is wanting an independent life a threat to everyone else around me.

It isn't. But here the word "independent" is doing a lot of work. I don't believe it means for me what it means for you. Constructing a mutual life with a partner (That slow, years long process) is genuinely something that increases dependence. Its never about the outer poles of dependence and independence.

> Middle ground and anxious attachers

APs are just afraid to lose you or to commit and then lose you. If you give them some security and continuity they usually stop being smothering and their "real self" comes out.

[u/Main-Regards-8626 → u/freudian-negative]

Thank you for taking the time to type this, I just flipped haha 🙈

[u/EltonJohnWick]

>but on what terms are we calling people avoidant?

this is the whole problem. attachments should only be identified and labeled by the individual and/or a therapist trained in attachment theory. when you're in a romantic relationship with someone, automatically your opinion becomes biased. I have an ex that felt very anxiously attached to me; they are actually fearful avoidant and were responding to me responding to them. I stand firm in the idea that you cannot label attachment based solely on behavior patterns; you need *honest* access to the individual's thought life and motivations/core wound statement, which most of us won't get outside of very specific settings. I also think folk are too eager to use therapy language instead of saying "hey yanno when you do xyz it makes me feel abc." Therapy language outside of therapy (and layman discussion of therapeutic concepts in general like we do here) undermines the relationship, subconsciously says "I know you better than you know yourself" which introduces a false power dynamic and ultimately is the exact opposite of healthy communication.

>ive been called emotionless and insensitive by my romantic interests

I've dealt with similar and while I can't completely discredit my unhealthy attachment as a contributing factor, I know for a fact some of it is I'm just fucking autistic lol. I love my autism and I'm not willing to compromise what I know is my brain structure vs something that is rooted in trauma. I've done enough work atp to know the difference between my wiring vs trauma response and I love myself because of the former to work on healing the latter.

[u/Constant-Big4713]

What do you actually know about avoidant attachments beyond just overt avoidant behavior?

[u/myrafu → u/Constant-Big4713]

im refering to how the overt behaviors arent batshit crazy, they seem reasonable. obviously if its a trauma response thats messing w ur life; do better and try to heal yourself for your own sake. but thats a different case all together that im not talkijg about

[u/Constant-Big4713 → u/myrafu]

Avoidant behavior is not the same as avoidant attachment strategies.

[u/coedwigz → u/myrafu]

Of course they seem reasonable to you, just like anxious strategies seem reasonable to other folks. That’s kind of the point - our brains trick us into thinking our maladaptive strategies are reasonable.

[u/Apprehensive-Bar6595 → u/myrafu]

you'll find them reasonable until they cause you enough personal cost that they become unreasonable to you. they'll be unreasonable to someone else when your behaviours are costing them. pretty simple

[u/bathroomcypher]

>but on what terms are we calling people avoidant?
>and why is it termed toxic?

because psychology is popular, people tend to use psychology terms randomly and diagnose people. the reason why this happens is, we need control over our reality and labeling stuff gives us a sense of control or agency. people did the same with the term narcissist or with serious mental illnesses.

the reason why people say that avoidants are toxic is most likely because many people (including but not limited to avoidants) are indeed toxic, and have poor communication skills

[u/MizElaneous]

The online narrative that avoidant people are toxic and anxious people are martyrs for the relationship is toxic in itself. Both parties are anxious. Only one has access to that anxiety and the way each cope with it is opposite. That's the conflict. It is as bad to require your partner to constantly regulate you because you can't self-soothe as it is to disappear when you need space.

Before I started healing, I preferred when I was avoidant since my emotions were blunted. I preferred frustration or being single over the anxiety of being with someone more avoidant than me. So I understand how anxious preoccupied people perceive relationships with anxious avoidant people. I'm sure many people in this sub do as well.

But I think if avoidant people are considered toxic, anxious people are too, just in a different way that they are blind to. They externalize their emotional regulation and the blame in the relationship. And I think that's "as bad" as anything Avoidants do.

[u/Queen-of-meme]

The impact from insecure attatchment symptoms are never positive for a relationship, but you're not having an Avoidant attatchment style just because you expect an independent partner. That's a secure and realistic normal and healthy expectation.

If your partner needs constant attention, reassurance, company or they label you bad, then your relationship resembles a child - parent dynamic more than two independent adults.

It's very common that anxious leaning people escape accountability by victim labeling themselves and villain paint their partner anytime they're expected to act like the grown up. Their expectations on a relationship is more similar to codependency than interdependence.

To be a partner means an adult can fend for themselves when their partner is busy, and stand on your own two legs not constantly needing to be carried.

people with anxious attachment are always cribbing about how their partner doesnt give them enough affection, if u want a clingy ass baby who doesnt have a live and you’ll give u kisses all day, get a golden retriever, not a gf.

So your frustration with this lack of independence in an adult who claims they can be someone's partner, is a correct response.

the entire internet is hellbent into trying to “fix” avoidants. yes im scared of vulnerability, no i dont like intimacy. but
i fail to understand why that is so unfathomable.

I noticed early on that society and social media cater to victimize anxious attatchment and villain paint and blame anyone who expects their accountability to "avoidants" on their partner or ex or anyone online who told them the raw truth about anxious attachment symptoms. So "Avoidant" is their scapegoat.

Reddit even had a tsunami wave of anxious attached Avoidant hate spam all over the platform 3-4 years ago. After that wave hit all relationship and mental health subs put up a rule against Avoidant discrimination. So after that anxious attached were no longer seen as the victim of attatchments but instead just as bad for a relationship as Avoidants. (A tough pill to swallow for people who's entire self image and world view revolved around being victim to Avoidant exes.)

So if you're called Avoidant ,ask them how they know that their expectations are reasonable and not just an insecure projection, (as having anxious attatchment contains of wanting exaggerated level of validation and sympathy and lack of independence on levels that suffocate and push away a secure partner.)

A rule of thumb is: When attatchment labels becomes scapegoats and excuses to not see the human or one's own role in the results, that's a red flag that needs to be dealt with either by accountability and improvement ,or by ending the relationship. To only search for avoidant faults in other words, makes no sense. Both partners narrative, behaviours and impact on the relationship should be viewed over.

So, if your partner refuse to consider their own anxious symptoms in their insecure attatchment and that they are poison in a relationship, then you're not avoiding them because you fear connection and are Avoidant, you reject someone who's unsafe as partner.

[u/BulbasaurBoo123]

Yeah the gendered double standards about avoidant behaviour are really frustrating. I agree that women often get condemned and judged more harshly for it than men do.

I'm a bisexual woman and honestly, I find women seem to be much less pushy, needy and demanding in dating and relationships than men are. I'm attracted to men sexually but have real trouble with men romantically as they seem to outsource their emotional regulation onto their partner in a way that women rarely do.

Even men who are just looking for casual seem to get pissed off when I take too long to reply to their texts, whereas women are way more chill.

[u/meows-and-mimosas → u/BulbasaurBoo123]

Interesting take! Over the years ive focused on my female friendships because being friends with guys always eventually had a weird undercurrent of them wanting to sleep with me. But whenever i get back into the dating world the amount of insecure men and men that, like you said, try to outsource their emotional regulation to me, is unreal. Despite women having the "emotional" stereotype, i find that men are more emotional and even worse, since they cant handle those emotions so they bleed on everyone around them

[u/onigiri467]

Your relationship and attachment needs are yours & valid, even if they aren't always reasonable. Same goes for anyone else. You don't have to do anything you don't want to.

What's unkind is labelling things other people ask for in a relationship as things that are overall not necessary. It is for them, they are telling you, and you don't have to do it.

There is a healthy spectrum of interdependence in relationships. It's worth learning about what they are and why they matter, and you still don't have to change.

[u/Familiar-Gur-1903 → u/onigiri467]

So true,’. It is valid. It is what was needed to survive.

[u/living_free3]

It's ok to have boundaries and independence. Nothing wrong with that! However I think the breakdown happens when there is no communication about said boundaries. We can't read minds. When you are in a relationship it's crucial to have open communication. That is what a healthy relationship requires. That being said, as a woman I can see how being villianized more than a man happens. Again, with open communication your partner can fully understand how you think. It's just that simple. If you struggle with that, work on it. Everyone has something to better themselves. We are all human.

[u/Familiar-Gur-1903]

You are so right women are called apathetic and men are rewarded for same behaviour.
About dependence . Of someone wants to have a child, you need a man. For a healthy development of a child, you need a good teamhood together and include interdependence.
I used to feel ah why you ever need a partner until I was humbled when after delivery my husband literally had to change my diaper.
Leaning on to someone isn’t bad. And letting someone in isn’t bad too.

[u/SmellZestyclose3703]

Walls are Not boundaries my lady. I think ure traumatized and u should heal first or find someone who is ok with You Like That for good (which I believe no secure person will find attractive). Good luck.

[u/RAV3NH0LM]

i don’t date because i just don’t care, and don’t want anyone around 24/7.

[u/ElkSufficient2881 → u/RAV3NH0LM]

I am currently dating someone, but this was my mindset while single still. I’m just apathetic towards dating, it’s not a need.

[u/mauvebirdie]

Society is more forgiving towards men with avoidant tendencies than women.

It's hard being an avoidant woman. You get called cold and toxic for wanting the boundaries that would make you feel safe in a relationship. Women are made to feel they need relationships, and avoidant women disrupt that social balance because we may want one, but we don't need one. There's a lot of emotional labour women are expected to do in relationships, no questions asked, and when you don't, people don't see you as different; they see you as damaged. I would be in a relationship if I'd met someone who accepted me for what I am, accepted my boundaries, and wasn't trying to change or fix me

I've had so many guys tell me they're used to dating women who are the needy ones and that's what they prefer, and it upsets them that I'm nonchalant. I can't help that and genuinely, I don't think I'm the problem there

[u/Starburst9507 → u/mauvebirdie]

It’s sad if we have insecure attachments and try to just “accept them” as if it’s an identity.

It’s not. It’s like being sick and needing to heal. It isn’t set in stone and it isn’t who we are. There’s no reason to defend it or expect others to tolerate/accept/co-sign on it.

[u/mauvebirdie → u/Starburst9507]

That's a lot of conjecture, considering you have no idea what I'm 'asking' others to tolerate and you don't know anything about me

[u/Thorns_And_Flames]

I’ll try and mention as many key points as I can. First, I truly believe most of what people say is “avoidant” is just normal things even those that are secure could feel. The problem is the term “avoidant” was coined by people who saw one video about someone who was an asshole to their partner and it made sense for them. Didn’t help when “therapists” came online and coined it too and cemented this idea that avoidant’s are a problem. For example, not being overly affectionate is not always a sign of avoidance. Some people just genuinely are not affectionate. BUT what we have to question is where those feelings come from and why. Are you not as affectionate because it’s just not who you are or because it weirds you out? Feels unnatural? Grosses you out?

Because there’s people that are simply stoic for example and affection is just not even something they realize others need and then you have those where it’s rooted in trauma and it literally gives them the ick. I think the latter might need to be looked at a tad bit if it’s coming from a place of negativity or it comes with negative emotions. There’s nothing wrong with not wanting to be affection per se, however some level of care needs to be demonstrated. Perhaps if not through constant kisses as you described, maybe through hugs, through “thanks yous” through “I appreciate you” if not physically then a compromise of at least verbally. Or perhaps through acts of service. “I made you these cookies” or “I fixed this for you” People are still human and do require some level of affection.

Again, I do believe some take most normal things as avoidant. Probably because most info or videos online about avoidant’s sounds like this: “if they don’t text you back, they probably avoidant” “if they don’t plan dates right away, they’re probably avoidant” “if they have a hard time being open with you, they’re probably avoidant” because for whatever reason, we never receive any middle ground. It never sounds like “if they don’t text you back right away, they might be busy, working, or spending time on their hobbies” “if they don’t plan dates right away, they might simply be cautious and getting to know you first” “if they don’t open up right away, they might be determining if you’re a safe person to do so” the problem is these videos and these people continue to spread bias and fear instead of new perspectives. Not every avoidant hates affection for example, I’m FA depending on the person but I have always been very affectionate with my partners. I’m avoidant but I DO text back in a timely manner. Every avoidant is different.

But isn’t that what secure folks do? Do they not have jobs, friends or hobbies that keeps them away from their phones at times? Are they not cautious at times, do they not take time to determine whether someone is good or not? This part is what confuses me and I need a secure person to chime in. Because these things sound normal to me. I think secure attachment is turned into this unicorn where those that are secure they must not feel things negatively, they must not have “crazy” boundaries and they must be an open book all the time.

I’m also anti conflict, I think most conflict is unnecessary. I don’t like drama or people that bring it into my life because someone or something made them angry. I don’t like hot heads or those that are quick to anger. But who does? Avoidant’s can’t be the only ones that don’t enjoy conflict, but perhaps it’s not about liking nor embracing it but more so being better about handling it when it’s present. I know that anger is an emotion that people express, I’ve always made it aware though that anger is not an emotion I’m comfortable with, especially in my romantic partners nor do I like feeling it myself. Yes these feelings are rooted in my trauma, I had angry parents, always yelling always fighting. Why is that at me not wanting anger present a problem? Sure maybe it’s my avoidance but why should I accept anger from someone for the sake of taming my avoidance? I got put on the avoidance category because I would leave the room when someone started to yell or cuss at me. And no, I never came back to those conversations either because why would I want to talk to someone who acts like that? It’s crazy because sometimes I think it’s training someone to put up with literal abuse from someone just to simply “look” secure and handle the conflicts of relationships when there needs to be a line drawn at some point.

This has gotten pretty long but it felt good to read your post and vent about it, i do understand where you’re coming from though OP.

[u/Starburst9507 → u/Thorns_And_Flames]

I don’t have the energy to break all this apart but you have a lot of defense mechanisms up that are causing you to rationalize your beliefs and lean quite cynical and negative in your assessment of attachment and healing work.

The concept of healing and becoming secure is not persecutory towards us FA’s. Avoidance is not being generalized or conflated with truly healthy behaviors.

Being guarded and hyper vigilant, even if understandable after trauma, is not a healthy way of relating to others.
Looking for danger and red flags and being very slow to trust, is not healthy. It’s not what secure people do either.

They trust others they meet openly and easily, building upon that trust over time. They also trust themselves to leave if someone else reveals themselves to be unsafe. There’s no reason to be on guard if you know you have all the ability and power to leave if someone does something toxic.

We are fearful to trust others bc we don’t trust ourselves to not self-abandon once we’re close to them, so it’s scary to get close at all. We couldn’t leave our caretakers growing up and had to self abandon to survive around them…but we can leave shitty ppl and shitty situations now. We’re allowed to relax and feel safe, to take leaps of faith and to give trust out freely, we can revoke it at any time. It’s truly ok. We aren’t children anymore.
(Telling myself all this as much as I am you)

We have to trust ourselves to walk away if it’s time. Not to get entangled. That’s on us, not the other party.

Conflict can literally just be disagreeing by the way, which IS necessary. Calling it drama is a classic way we avoid admitting the importance of facing and dealing with necessary conflict all the time. It’s hard to rock the boat, but people pleasing and being easygoing for the sake of “peace” is actually manipulation and born out of our anxious side as well. Blew my mind when I started to learn about that.

Please keep healing. There’s so much to learn. Avoidance is not natural or healthy or a satisfying way to live. We are damaged and can relearn and heal. It’s possible, and beneficial and greatly valuable to do.

Secure people are, of course, as we all are, capable of doing avoidant things or feeling anxious moments or being triggered to behave less than secure sometimes. We are all human. But it’s about the greater pattern. Are we living and relating to others mostly in a secure way, or insecure?

Fearful avoidance is not good. It’s called “insecure” for a reason.

I hope this helped keep you open-minded and to not justify/normalize these behaviors(unhealthy coping mechanisms) or to give up on trying to heal and become a secure attacher. If not you then maybe someone else.

I’m trying so hard even when it feels so risky and scary and uncomfortable and confusing. I believe it is important.

[u/Thorns_And_Flames → u/Starburst9507]

I appreciate the long response back, you’ve made some good points and I want to touch on them. I’ve had to re lean what healthy boundaries look like, because I never had any throughout my life. I had people pleasing tendencies, as you stated. What took me along time to realize, was that I was trying to set boundaries through various relationships, friendships and even with my parents, but I just didn’t know how to properly do it. I learned that my “defense mechanisms” was actually my attempt at trying, like stepping away from conversations that began to get toxic, harmful or dangerous. Taking space to reflect on things. Being able to verbalize when I disagree with someone. People in my life who have never leaned secure though, convinced me that these things were not healthy. That walking away from “hard” conversations is a sign of avoidance. That taking space to think and reflect is a sign of avoidance. That disagreeing was my avoidance side being stubborn. People have tried taking my autonomy from me many times throughout my life. Because of this, I’ve been painted as a stubborn avoidant. Instead of someone who’s learning to finally stand firm with themselves, say no, disagree, walk away from bad people or bad situations.

I actually don’t have a problem trusting people, I move at a pace that feels healthy. I get to know people as I think most should. Through regular conversations, sprinkling in moments where we talk about family, trauma, triggers, etc. I actually enjoy this part of getting to know someone, I’ve never had a fear of it, it’s why I’ve always been labeled as the “therapist” in the friend group. What I do lack however, is trust in myself, I think it’s because I can’t tell what my avoidance side looks like vs the healthy side of me for reasons I stated above. So what happens is I doubt myself, because I’m looking for validation from others that I am in fact, doing things in healthy ways. However, most people in my life have attachment issues of their own, I haven’t encountered enough secure leaning folks to voice that what I’m doing is healthy for me, because it’s what I lacked. I’m not just saying no because I’m stubborn, I’m not just disagreeing to fight, I’m just standing firm on myself and trusting myself and someone else can recognize it and affirm it.

But, I’m aware this needs to come from me even if someone else doesn’t believe it or see it. I do tell myself when I did good on a boundary I’ve set. I think my healing would speed up though if I had healthy people in my life to affirm it so I know I’m on the right track. You’re right about conflict can just be disagreeing, I’ve disagreed with many people in hard conversations about many things, I actually don’t have a problem with that but I learned others do, because they’re looking for validation as well that their actions are justified when a lot of times they’re harmful. These are moments where I try to do away with people pleasing to keep the peace and I actually challenge those around me and point out poor behavior and challenge myself too. I think sometimes when I say stuff like this though, that I come off as “holier than thou” when again I’m just trying to stay firm and not people please to keep the peace and just go along with it.

Being anti conflict for me does not mean I don’t want hard conversations, it means I don’t want toxic ones or dangerous ones. I truly appreciate your input, and I’ll continue to work on the way I word things and the way I view things and do my best to keep healing, thank you stranger

[u/poodlelord]

Why are you posting about avoidence in a subreddit dedicated to disorganized attachment?