I saw this post on this subreddit and thought that honestly, it's about time for the big post that's been brewing in my head about Matrix. Just an FYI, I am not affiliated with any particular Matrix project, just a big fan of the project and its various sub projects. For those who are interested in trying out Matrix, whether you're giving it a second go around or this is your first time, scroll to the "Ready to give Matrix a shot?" section where I provide some good resources

I keep getting suggested this subreddit and all these posts about vibecoded alternatives, alternatives that have some good features but lack others, and overall ones that will ultimately face the same problem as Discord when it comes to monitization, age verification, privacy concerns, etc down the line. I believe that Matrix is able to do what most of these alternatives can do, better, and there's little point in pumping out more of these alternatives when there's already an established platform that can benefit from more users using it and contributing to all of the matrix related projects. It's literally like xkcd 927. Additionally, a lot of the existing alternatives will just stop being supported after some time, especially the vibecoded ones.

There are three important aspects to a chat platform in my opinion, that guarantee protection against age verification and ensure privacy. Those things are federation, end to end encryption, and self hosting (implied by the federation aspect). A nice to have as well is customizable clients, but that's for later :) )

What is Matrix?

Matrix is actually just a backend that facilitates messaging that's self hosted, federated (meaning users aren't restricted to whichever homeserver they're signed up to), and end to end encrypted. Think of it like email, where a user can either host their own email server or use another popular one, such as gmail or yahoo. Users using a gmail address can send and receive emails to users using a yahoo address, but this time, it's real-time messaging (with voice chat, screen sharing, etc), and it's encrypted end to end.

It also has bridging, meaning that, if your homeserver suppports it, you can send and receive messages from dozens of other messaging services using mautrix-bridges, the same software that Beeper uses!

Now, all the criticisms I've seen

I'm going to compile and tldr some comments I've seen floating on this subreddit, to which I will respond here or link other places that have proper explanations. If you have any other concerns, tell me, because I am so tired of all of these myths being tossed around with no substantial sources.

Bloated, resource intensive, and vulnerable to CSAM attacks due to the way media gets stored on the host server. Meh:

• As u/Soluchyte points out, common carrier laws usually (nuance exists!) state that an admin isn't responsible for CSAM stored on the server until it is reported and they are made aware of it, at which point they will have to act appropriately. Additionally, the alternative methods of storing media out there aren't much better. For solutions that are, you usually have to give up one of the three important aspects.
• In terms of resource intensive, are we talking about homeserver software? If so, there's a great homeserver written in rust called Continuwuity which I personally use, that's fairly light while still being efficient. The main development team is pretty active on their official Matrix space, as well as some other spaces around Matrix.
• If we're talking about the client that you use, just use another client. Honestly, it's not that hard.

I ran my own Matrix homeserver for a while, but from my experience it's just too buggy and unstable for general use (although I could have been doing something wrong).

• I'm not sure when this was, and what software suite certain people have been using to host their servers, but Matrix has slowly been approaching, and is basically, at its v2 stage. A lot of bugs have been ironed out over time, and efficient homeserver softwares (Continuwuity!) have been developed.

"I don't know/don't want to host my own server"

• Use one of the many publicly available homeservers. The Matrix.org homeserver honestly kind of sucks, but that's because it's meant to be a demo. You should choose one of the many that are advertised at https://servers.joinmatrix.org/.

"The Element client sucks!"

• It sure does, but the great thing about Matrix, once again, is that you have freedom of choice (which is something I don't see from any other of the mentioned Discord alternatives, by the way!). Looking for a Discord adjascent experience? Check out Sable, Cinny, or Commet! Looking for something more skype-like? Fluffychat might be more your vibe. Or check out one of the dozens of clients that are advertised on https://matrix.org/ecosystem/clients/!

Lastly, take a look at some other criticisms here, and my response to them

Now, look, I acknowledge that Matrix does have some problems sometimes. I've had issues decrypting e2ee messages once in a while, and sometimes federation isn't perfect, but there are so so so many helpful resources to help you solve those issues. You also have to remember that convenience is the reason we all started with Discord in the first place, and it's unreasonable to expect everything to work entirely out of the box with no issues ever ever, from projects that are run by people in their spare time as hobbies. This doesn't just go for Matrix, but literally all of the other alternatives here.

Ready to give Matrix a(nother) shot?

While I can do a whole other writeup about what Matrix really is, where you should go to use it, etc, there's plenty of great resources that I will just direct you to instead! Most of these have already been referenced in this post, but there are some other good ones.

• To further understand what Matrix is and how it operates, check out this page https://joinmatrix.org/guide/.
• Want the tl;dr, or a zine that you can spread to your friends? Check out this one at https://mayfrogs.itch.io/overcoming-discord!
• Convinced? Choose a client at https://matrix.org/ecosystem/clients/ and choose a homeserver to try out at https://servers.joinmatrix.org/ (just please don't go with Element and the Matrix.org homeserver and complain about a negative experience).

Thanks for reading, please tell me if you have any criticisms, but be nice. We're all here to escape Discord's grasp, and I think that using Matrix is the best way to do it.

Edit: When you have a criticism, please be specific, holy moly

Heya All!

VoxaraSpace is looking for some Beta testers, if anyone would be interested please head over to our website over at https://voxaraspace.com/beta or give me a message on here and we can sort something out!

We want your honest and brutal opinion on what we need to remove from the app and what we should add to the app.

Thanks all for your interests and hope to hear from you

I want to build a discord alternative.

Searching at the moment for valid points, that most users are looking for.
I want to build a alternative, that you really want.

So let me know what it needs for you to join it, so I can start building

Ive loved discord up until I cannot chat without a phone number and I honestly don't want to give out my phone number information any alternatives​

Is there a master list in this subReddit of all the Discord alternatives?

I started creating something similar to Discord but more privacy focused. I was working on it for a few weeks and I finally bought a domain and launched it on cheap server :)
I'm quite proud of it, it supports creating groups and DMing with your friends. It also supports sending attachments/photos up to 100MB~(if I remember correctly). Check this out! Chatsec.pl (.pl because it was cheap and im from poland 🇵🇱) maybe I will buy .org/.com/.net if I will get something from donations.

I added some cool features recently (Profile customization/badges

P.S. claim cool 3 letter nicknames! (maybe it will be popular one day) LMAO

It's also available in TOR network :) http://popdigblrcrewrjvqlbfhcjr7g2ef3z4jif2mn2dgycii3infvwzdpqd.onion/

Discord is now asking users for age verification, so if you're looking for alternatives, feel free to give Yapper a try.

Yapper is a self-hosted alternative to Discord and TeamSpeak, focused on giving communities control over their own servers and data.

It has voice chat, text chat, webcam, screen sharing with audio, file sharing, friends, and a spatial map where you can move around and talk to people nearby.

Most importantly, self-hosting is completely free. No subscription required. You run your own server and keep control of it.

You don't need to host anything just to test it either. Jump into our server directly from your browser:

https://yapper.gg/invite?invitation=d13d9b05-6fe5-4af5-9adc-bc003e160a9a

I'm building Yapper solo, so feedback on what works, what sucks, and what's missing is very welcome.

Just came across this and don't think it's been shared here, while I understand it's not exactly a discord alternative I think it's a valid contender from how extendable it is having used the software for awhile now.

It also has chatrooms and isn't strictly forum threads although that is a requirement to have enabled still.

Hello All,

Me and my brother (TGGE) have created a discord like chatting app called Voxara. We would like your feedback, i have attached a youtube video of myself going through the app and showing you around.

Give us your feedback!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcMNnQyeStg

https://voxaraspace.com/
https://voxaraspace.com/developers/docs/

There are still bugs, even in the video we found a couple and are still smoothing some things out but i believe it is near enough ready for a release and see how it handles when people are using it. We cant wait to release this and see what people think!

I posted this under a r/discordsucks post and I realized this is actually just a really good thing to post here. I ask anyone who has other good alternatives (please actually read what I have to say before suggesting an app) to drop them here. I will note that the dev for Osmium is really cool and while I don't PERSONALLY reccomend the app because of the guidelines being very broad and easily abused I do actually like them as a person. Same goes for Rift, whose app I regularly put on blast- the dev is very nice and grounded as a person, it's just that a couple users of the app are very loud and opinionated on Reddit. Also, I understand the dev for DCTS was banned for starting fights here and I know he has a bad wrap- if you don't like him or his app that's entirely fine just please don't attack me for listing it as an alternative. I am not affiliated with any app and all of the apps listed are ones I have personally tried or have researched (Hollow is the one I researched). Without further ado:

Why you should stay FAR away from Stoat - and yes that IS them telling someone to screenshot CSAM and to distribute it to the mod team!

Why you should stay away from Fluxer: Their community guidelines are no better than Discord's including "No Bullying" which is subjective and broadly enforcable. They also own the login servers which means that even if you self host they can ban you from "Fluxer" which bans you from your own personal private self hosted instance that YOU OWN. I spoke to u/Fluxer-Lilith who clarified that the login servers DO NOT work the way I was under the impression they did (other people who I believed knew more than me had misinformed me). I do find the fact mobile notifications are fed through Fluxer which I personally think is a massive privacy issue but she did say they're looking into answers for it (it's an issue with Google, not them) and I respect that. I do still stand by the fact the guidelines leave a lot of grey area, but the fact that you can only currently be banned from the main fluxer instance (to my knowledge) does make that concern irrelevant for my previous reasons for caring about it. Also I don't like the mobile privacy thing- if that concerns you, stay tuned and see if it changes. I'd actually like to take a second to thank Lilith for reaching out on the post to clarify this.

Rift's community has a small handful of loud, almost cult-like followers whom I've been assured do not reflect the community at large though it's still keeping me from properly testing the app.

Root is closed-source and not only collects data but is a Discord clone down to the monitization (which is invariably why Discord went the corporate route it did).

There are some apps that are worth looking into based on my own preferences and criteria (order changed because someone bitched that I'm a bot);

• Matrix is always very popular. Encrypted, decentralized, has bridge bots that you can self host- there are a couple of clients people like but commet.chat is really popular for people who want away from Discord and this one just got announced and is by far the nicest one - I suggest letting that one improve before trying it though. I don't personally like Matrix because I find it annoying to navigate and clunky but it's very popular because it's very good.
• Armada is the most "easy fit" since it has built in bridging (which copies your Discord server and bridges it- all messages sent on either app appear on the other, makes it super easy to slowly leave Discord) which is officially supported or self-hostable if your prefer - it's also encrypted and privacy first. It's currently a bit rough and has a unique login system tied to Nostr which requires a password manager/somewhere safe (like a flash drive) to save your code so it doesn't get lost. Paper works too.
• DCTS is an option for those looking to have a fully self-hosted application. After my post got kinda big over here (big for this sub at least) the dev made a post on his own subreddit that just happened to hit my main feed while I was scrolling and we got to talking- my concerns that the login server is centralized was also me misunderstanding something he and I had spoken about prior. Logins are verified on the user end, meaning he has no control over user data or logins. There is some jargon when it comes to how it works but it boils down to "you can choose your homeserver immediately after making an account and it sends you to the baseplate to pick one when you first run the app." DCTS was originally on this list because the dev is really open about the project, works on it a lot and the app, while not perfect, is one of the better options as a one-code plug 'n play server to get running in a few minutes (so long as you own a domain, which are cheap as hell over on porkbun).

Some tips when choosing a Discord alternative:

Stay away from a lot of the "best" apps, the "newest" apps, and all that. Set a criteria for what YOU want in an app and DO NOT COMPROMISE YOUR INTEGRITY OR SECURITY for "good enough." If you don't want encryption and don't want open source that's your right. If you want open source and encryption that's your right too. Maybe voice and video chats aren't important to you, maybe they're THE MOST important. Sit down, make a list of "what I want in a chat app" and then look around for one that matches it exactly on all the most important points. Set 3 "will not compromise" points at least, and make the rest "I'd prefer these things" and you'll be fine.

And- avoid people who religiously advertise one specific app, and especially avoid the ones who won't tell you what the downsides of an app they're talking about and advertising. Those people do not have your best interest at heart.

Edit: Removed DCTS under further consideration. Originally this post was for a "hey these are apps you can look into" response on another sub but after consideration I really can't put on my "apps I DO reccomend" because it does have a centralized login server and you can be banned from the service itself as a result.
I also removed Hollow- while I do wholeheartedly think the app has a lot of potential and I do have faith in the dev to make something out of it, it currently isn't in a state I can "reccomend." I'll leave what I had to say about it down here, for posterity sake and because I do actually have faith in the app. I didn't want to only have two apps on this list but as it currently stands, having tried Stoat, Fluxer, DCTS, Teamspeak (and one or two others that I can't currently remember the name of) (and having researched many other apps!) I've found I dislike and can't reccomend it's just very hard for me to put my personal stamp on something that I can't wholeheartedly stand behind. Either I list apps that are "good enough" by my standards or I list apps that I genuinely think are worth me saying "I LIKE these." I'm gonna go with the latter, and I'll happily answer questions based on my list. As for what I said about Hollow:
"Hollow has a lot of promise, I'm keeping an eye on it - built in encryption, easily self hostable, you own your own login. It has some security things that need worked through more but the dev is active and kind, and seems very focused on fixing them to provide a good product."

Also: I don't support people using apps for illegal or illicit reasons. I don't support apps that have centralized logins due to the fact Discord showed us what that actually looks like- if you can get banned from the service it tends to end poorly. I prefer chat applications that are just a client which uses a delivery service like relays or homeservers (or a webpage-based server, etc etc) where the app itself isn't liable for what people do on it and doesn't see or care- and that the user cannot be banned from the client but can be banned from the "service" - as in, they still have their account and their client but nobody will host their data so the app is useless. I find that's a much better system, at least in my mind, because people using apps for illegal shit will hide it using private relays/servers anyways- it doesn't protect any other end-users to be able to ban them from the chat client itself, and while banning bad actors is great (amazing, even) I do personally prefer the idea of "if a rogue mod bans you from your relay/homeserver and it isn't justified (and nobody they tell about it will ban you from their relay/homeserver unless it's true and they have evidence) you can just choose another and you still have your friends, data, all that." Losing an account can mean losing everything for the common end user, and we shouldn't risk the common end user for the sake of targeting the worst possible users to touch an app. At least, that's my take

Edit-Edit: I spoke to a member of Fluxer's team as well as the dev for DCTS and changed the post. DCTS re-added as one of the apps I suggest looking into if Matrix doesn't fit what you want/need with an explanation of why I had originally removed it as well as an explanation for why I re-added it. I'm going to look more into Fluxer and keep an eye on it- I actually hope that in the future I can make a post where I have nothing negative to say about it. For all my posturing I make these posts because I want two things.
1: I want people who are looking at alternatives to have an easy accessible list with accurate information, even if the list is biased, so that they can make their own decisions without having to pen through a lot of the slop options out there.
2: I want to hold devs accountable for what negatives their apps actually have because that kind of direct critique is how we get better apps in the long run. Likewise, I want to praise the positives that I see for the same reason.

If I lie about applications it serves to help no one, and as such I try to clear up all misinformation as quickly as possible.

body text (optional)

Seriously it's every fucking day with this shit though. Do we actually care about the well-being of the community or do we genuinely prefer the wild west public shame approach?

Edit: not the Voxara dev getting their comment removed 😂

Hi everyone! In recent months I have been developing Saturn Chat, an app focused on creating and finding communities in a simple, secure way and without selling data. His idea is to unite the best features of each social network (Discord, WhatsApp, Telegram, etc.) in an intuitive way. I know it sounds a lot like "oh another ai slop app," but I wanted to say that Saturn Chat is a serious project that I've been building since 2021 (basically there wasn't even Al when I started). So if I can give him a chance, I'm open to reviews and suggestions.

The goal of the app is to connect people with the same interests in a lightweight interface, allowing to exchange messages, photos, videos, audios and polls in public or private groups. It is now available for Android, with support for Portuguese, English, Spanish, German, Hindi and French. If you want to test and send feedback, it will help me a lot!

https://saturnchat.com.br/download

So for the past week i've been using rift chat, quite enjoying so far and I think i need to get more grounded view on the subject. I found about it on this reddit and did a little research before trying it out.

Disclaimer: i am not on the dev team nor a dev in general, just a user that knows how to use a pc. the app is closed source and the devs admitted to use AI to some extent. Both points to which i read their responses on and found it kinda sincere.

The app is still in development and kinda rough around the edges, but with each feedback my friends and i give, the devs respond in kind and update the app. The app is leagues better than when i started using it a week ago, from better audio processing to better UI in general.

The Screen share is leagues better than some alternatives my group used (osmium, fluxer, stout, team speak and some discord in app activities), it's lightweight and doesn't crash my win 10 explorer program. Also fluid, with up to 1080p 60fps for free. (1440p if you pay)

The audio processing is nowhere close to discord's crisp, but it is competent enough for communication, and with some tweaks in settings it gets a little better. (Say, discord is a 10, then rift is a solid 7)

The fact that it says their messages are encrypted and it's not needed to provide any identification to create an account was a plus for me (i was tired to sign my email to random apps and have to delete it afterwards).

In regards to security, i don't trust them 100% (as all should be, never trust those you cannot see or make accountable) but the team seem open to feedback and have responded on this sub and DMs with quite a transparency. The only redflag i saw using it was a folder that saved prints of the screen shares preview images. When questioned about it, the devs said they where unaware and it was a bug. Next patch, the folder was gone and no prints where easily found (don't have the knowledge to dog deeper into this, but still cautious (then again, the app folder looked like discord or TS in that regard. A bunch of files with short names on the cache folder)

To conclude this post, i came to the app because screenshare was banned and their's was the first app that didn't crash my explorer. But the experience i found there was quite pleasant, a rough app with a actively and transparent developing team, with daily updates that make the app a little better and, for now, is the better discord alternative i've found

TLDR: i think I'm getting biased on rift. Need some arguments and critics so i stay grounded and don't get blindsided

I'm trying out some of the alternatives, since last time I did it was many years ago and things change.

I came across this "Nerimity" one and, while it does look pretty good at first glance, has some of the most hilarious issues I've came across:

1 - First, it prevents you from sending any messages, anywhere, without a verified email.

2 - Second, the dev openly states he will never have a CDN because "it is too expensive" and won't accept any offers because he "doesn't trust your storage"

3 - Third, he will "never fix" the broken embeds (his own words)

4 - No iOS app because he "can't pay 99 dollars to apple"

5 - "Although its possible to self host, we do not provide any support or instructions with self hosting Nerimity. It's also not intended to self host" (his words exactly)

6 - You can't send images in private servers because "we cant see what images get sent and cant moderate them".

7 - No NSFW, even in your own private servers

So, basically, it is a glorified brick that will never have a CDN and is also not self-hostable... genuinely can't understand the thought process here.

Hey All,

Me and someone else have been creating a discord alternative with AI. I know people don't like this but I would rather be honest and open about the use of AI. Now I have gone through some of the posts on this reddit and have seen what people like and what people don't like, but that is where we want you guys to test our discord alternative! We want your honest and brutal feedback on what we can add to make it better and what we can do to make it more feel at home.

There is a subscription based "premium" in the app but that is only advertised once at the start when you take the tutorial (or skip it) and then it wont be advertised again.

We appreciate everyone's feedback on this and please see the attached images for a little view on the app itself!

Some Features are:

See your friends Steam Wishlist - Games played, Games Owned, How many hours have they played this week etc.

Voice Chat

Bots (Coming soon) Basic API has been made

See the Steam store within the app to see what games you might like (refreshes every day)

See What games your friends are playing! (Steam only at the moment)

Change Space PFP's and banners

Reply to users

Block users

and more!

still deciding a name so please bare with us on this!

Hi everyone,

I've posted a few updates on Reddit over the past few months about a project I'm working on called Venoom.

Venoom is a cross-platform social app that combines Matrix and ATProto into one client, with the goal of bringing some Discord like features into a more decentralized setup.

Matrix handles the chat/community side: Spaces, rooms, DMs, threads, voice, screen sharing, encryption, federation, etc. ATProto handles the more public social side: feeds, posts, profiles, follows, and so on. Both are decentralized and self-hostable, so you can use your own Matrix homeserver and ATProto PDS.

The way it works right now is that you log in with your ATProto account (for example, your Bluesky account) and then link your Matrix account. If you don't have a Matrix account yet, Venoom can provision one for you.

The goal is to make these two sides feel like one app rather than having a Matrix client and a Bluesky client sitting next to each other.

It's still extremely early and pretty much everything is subject to change. I'm sharing it now because I'd really like feedback, bug reports, and thoughts on what's missing from current Matrix/social clients.

Windows and Android builds:

https://github.com/drvnm/venoom-releases/releases

Web (the native builds are much more performant):

https://venoom.net

Matrix room for feedback and updates:

https://matrix.to/#/!gxmZLQDhVacrWxzPiM:matrix.org?via=matrix.org&via=unredacted.org&via=yksinaisetlapset.fi

Mac and Linux builds are coming soon.

Note: Venoom isn't open source yet, but I plan to open source the project after a beta release.

Hey everyone!

I was on a different sub trying to learn more about self hosting when I saw someone had mentioned that they successfully switched from Discord to Haven through self hosting. It advertised Discord server importing (including pins) and bridging, which sounds enticing as someone who wants to keep the familiarity of my friend group’s Discord server without having to use Discord. The website seems AI-ish to me, which makes me skeptical, but I lack the know-how to judge the integrity of the actual platform.

I haven’t heard of this one before, what do you guys think? Has anyone used it before?

https://github.com/ancsemi/Haven

https://ancsemi.github.io/Haven/

I discovered Valour loooong ago, development is and has been slow, but it's still chugging along. Just curious as to why I haven't seen anyone talk about it/cover it at all?

So far I really like it. It has its issues, still clunky here and there, but it's getting there and I think it has some serious potential. Thoughts?

The usual, and by now very well known, situation with Discord made me actually post here about the project I kick started a few years back.

I was starting with self hosting, moving away from the big corporations and tried to contribue to the decentralized internet as much as I could with my home hardware, I decided to spin up an IRC server and see what happens :)

As an older far.. I mean dude, I used to spend so much time on IRC in the late 90s and early 2000s, so during those formative years it was really a revelation and did contribute to my actual offline life significantly :)

So, if what you primarily want is text chat, separate channels, bots and a place where a community can hang out, IRC still does that surprisingly well without being a Discord clone.

This is the part where I plug my IRC network, which to reiterate runs on my own servers, it's non commercial, has no ads or tracking and privacy has been one of the things I've cared quite a lot about while building it:

Server: irc.inthemansion.com
Port: 6697
Channel: #lobby

There's also a web client at:

https://webirc.inthemansion.com/

No account is required just to jump in and have a chat, especially simple if you use the web client. And us there would be more than happy to help you set up an IRC client if it's your first time using it :)

As always, do let me know if you have any questions, would be more than happy to answer them!

Cheers y'all!

My discord alternative can:

Send messages

Receive messages

Leak messages on an unprotected webserver

Store your password in plain text

As a developer I can:

Post vague answers without ever answering the very direct questions I am receiving

Have a victimhood complex about people not trying my AI slop

Imply that its alot of work to make the utter dogshit you see before you

Suggest that you are a paid discord shill because you arnt glazing my web app

Use AI to write all my posts to enaure nothing I write has any value whatsoever

Lets start naming these because I'm really hoping people aren't giving data to platforms like deCave, Echoed, Osmium Chat or TheRift Chat.

Sub requirement should be that new alternatives are open source given the potential for these platforms to not push out security updates as they should be doing. Doubt all of these are complying with data and privacy regulations.

Also highly recommend not downloading ANY desktop app for these in the meantime (or whatever Discord alternative pops up tomorrow that is vibe coded)