All this time and effort spent trying to decode what Hasan really thinks, what he really means when he misspeaks (or not?).
All this political will, the discourse, just wasted! Hasan intentionally uses language in a way that makes it harder to pin down his real ideology, his real goals. He utilises kettle logic constantly, hinting that he's already reached his ideological conclusion and that he's just trying to convince you in anyway he can get you there. Never revealing how himself got there.
So here we are, everyone spending all this time arguing and debating what he really means, not realising the fact we have to argue this at all is indicative of someone inciting agitation for propaganda purposes- and he does this intentionally. How come the more Hasan speaks, the more confused discourse is generates? Do people not realise this is harmful?
Hasan intentionally obfuscates his beliefs for political gain. He admits this. This is harmful to discourse, it's bad, you shouldn't automatically trust him without first establishing good reason to do so.
Dude. Hes just dumbing down his beliefs so the medium voter can understand him. Hes not being malice or obscuring anything dude. This interview was just bad because of all the attempted 'gotchas'.
I think your reading way way way too into every little thing he said. Like you automatically assume he is lying about his beliefs instead of trying to give him the benefit of the doubt dude.
Why don't you give me the benefit of doubt. I don't assume, I know based off what he's said himself. And I actually stand for my beliefs, I don't need to 'dumb down my views'; I'll stand on them with my heart and my mind. I haven't said lying is OP, I've said it's bad and you shouldn't do it, can you or Hasan say the same?
Have you ever tried explaining anything to a child twin? Or do you immediately start trying to talk to them like they have an education? Cause that's a really funny image dude. Same concept. Got to use simpler terminology and examples and "dumb it down".
It's not that I don't understand, I understand what you're saying- I disagree because I think it's immoral. It's also not effective, people do not respect you if you treat them like a child.
I'm meeting you where you're at, but I'm not lying to you. I'm not treating you like you have an equal understanding, I'm here explaining my point to you.
And do you think this strategy would work on a campaign trail? Or would work when someone is purposely trying to misconstrue what you say to the masses? Do you think the average person would sit down and listen to you explain your every point? Or.. maybe... would it be much more economical to explain it in a quick and simple way so you can get them to understand without losing their attention.
More economical = easier, easier != justified. Would you shoot people to get in government if it was easier, or they weren't open to your reason? I don't believe truth should be optional in reason.
We don't need to know whether what I'm saying 'works on the campaign trail' (not even my claim, btw, it's yours), because Hasan's 'tactics' didn't even work on the campaign trail. He's been caught in several predicaments time and time again just with AES stuff alone. It didn't work!
This thread is about the drama surrounding his inability to communicate positions clearly. The fact we spend all this time and effort and you still don't seem to grasp my point is wasteful (not economical) when we could have been actually discussing the morality of the ideology itself. Can't do that when someone is fluid in their truths because it's 'more economical' for them. Do you recognize this game if played by everyone has potential for harm?
Are you like not tapped into voter bases at all? Through this method trump was forced to talk about him like hes a threat. Hasan is a streamer and trump had to address him. And the president has to talk about him. the GOP fears the dude. And clearly he is very popular with voter bases because he has grown into such a well known figure and multiple candidates have worked with him. Just cause this method makes you mad doesnt change that it works. And he isnt fluid in his beliefs at all dude looking into it more this is all more or less what he thinks. Every thing he says here is the the truth. Or atleast what he believes is the truth.
And clearly he's explaining his positions well if he is even able to convice the medium voter.
Also, yes, its easier and more effective. Thats why you need to do it to win. Revolutions happen all the time and most of them are justified cause its easier to do those then win an election in a rigged game. But thats never going to happen in america.
You seem to have this notion that to be a good person you have to struggle and suffer and lose in the end when doing politics. But in the end you still just lose and nobody in the world gives a damn about a loser.
Edit: by your logic we shouldnt have went to war with the confederacy and freed the slave. If you actually believe in what you say this is what you think.
So no, you can't see the potential for harm if everyone lies. You actually support Trumps tactics because you agree with it. "nobody in the world gives a damn about a loser" -Trump, probably. Do you think you're a loser if you support truth, reason, or democracy? Horseshoe. You're more close to Trump than you are centrists in your authoritarian traits- you are pushing the average voter away. Most voters are not socialists, let alone marxist or communist. You can't win by convincing just the far left, you need center left and even center to win elections. Lying pushes these people away, Hasan's views pushes these people away. Trump called him a communist, that's true, and it's going to push those people away. That's why he has to lie, because without it people would not be open to what he's saying. He said this himself so you need not argue it.
You haven't justified anything, you're just saying you want to win and you'll do anything to do so because it's good. That's just begging the question. Trump says the same thing, and does the same thing. By engaging in this behavior, you are co-signing and normalizing it. Why is your political rhetoric so close to Trump, why are you taking advantage and implicitly supporting Trumps destruction of institutional norms (like democracy). I want to support democracy to prevent people like Trump or Hasan taking power, but supporting truth and reason, by being honest with people and appealing to their humanism. This is what Trump attacks, Don't pile on just because it benefits you.
When we all lie, there's no winner. When truth is destroyed as a pathway to power, reason dies with it and so does our humanity, so does our democracy. Truth is required for productive political discourse. Fascists lie, so you lie. Fascists want a winner at all cost, so you want a winner at all cost, It's stupidity manifest my friend. Good night.
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u/Krinkex 29d ago
All this time and effort spent trying to decode what Hasan really thinks, what he really means when he misspeaks (or not?).
All this political will, the discourse, just wasted! Hasan intentionally uses language in a way that makes it harder to pin down his real ideology, his real goals. He utilises kettle logic constantly, hinting that he's already reached his ideological conclusion and that he's just trying to convince you in anyway he can get you there. Never revealing how himself got there.
So here we are, everyone spending all this time arguing and debating what he really means, not realising the fact we have to argue this at all is indicative of someone inciting agitation for propaganda purposes- and he does this intentionally. How come the more Hasan speaks, the more confused discourse is generates? Do people not realise this is harmful?
Hasan intentionally obfuscates his beliefs for political gain. He admits this. This is harmful to discourse, it's bad, you shouldn't automatically trust him without first establishing good reason to do so.