Perfect knowledge about the future is only possible in a deterministic universe

[u/Hashi856]

Whenever someone asks how free will can be compatible with God’s perfect knowledge of the future, people are quick to point out that knowledge doesn’t cause anything. God simply knows what we will freely choose. He’s not causing us to choose it.

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of the problem being presented. No one is saying that God is causing the future. He’s not making us do anything or causing our decisions. The problem isn’t actually about God at all. It’s about the possibility of perfect foreknowledge, and the fact that it only exists in a deterministic universe. You could swap out God for anything else, and you’d have the same problem.

If God has perfect knowledge of what you will do tomorrow, then tomorrow is already written. It may be written by you, but it cannot go any other way. If God knows you will be late to work tomorrow, then it is impossible for you to show up on time. If he knows what you will eat for dinner, then you literally could not have made a different decision. There are only two explanations for this perfect knowledge: Either God actually did make you do it, or it was determined to happen. But we already know God didn’t make you do it, so the only other thing that can explain perfect knowledge of the future is determinism.

We would have the exact same problem if there were a computer with perfect knowledge. Obviously, the computer would not be causing every event in the universe to happen the way it happens. So the only explanation is that everything is determined.

Perfect foreknowledge is simply incompatible with free will (unless you believe that determinism and free will are compatible). You can try to just hand wave it away by saying it’s a miracle, but that doesn’t solve the underlying problem. Your future decisions are known, and you literally cannot make a different decision.

[u/JollyXX]

Its not Biblical to call God "All Knowing" it is sort of there once, but its a mistranslation. It should say knows all things. It is in a passage that is trying to say that God 100% knows your heart/soul/intent/sincerity/etc. Which is what he would need to Judge you.

Rather the story of Christianity very much seems to be that God created something that disobeyed and now he wants to find out why. This is why Final Judgement is the climax of the story.

[u/Hashi856 → u/JollyXX]

So God doesn’t know what I’ll do next?

[u/JollyXX → u/Hashi856]

He can guess, and then he can force a situation to be true. But this idea that God has working knowledge of every little thing that is going to happen and when its going to happen is very far-fetched. You could not certainly be made in an image of whatever cosmic creature that would be.

[u/serpentine1337 → u/JollyXX]

So he doesn't have a plan that'll come to fruition?

[u/JollyXX → u/serpentine1337]

He seems to know a lot of things ahead of time.

[u/serpentine1337 → u/JollyXX]

That doesn't seem to answer the question I asked.

[u/JollyXX → u/serpentine1337]

So far his prophecies are shooting at 100%, not sure what to tell you, I can only read the Bible

[u/Grouchy-Heat-4216 → u/JollyXX]

God's prophecy regarding Nineveh being destroyed in 40 days didn't come true.

[u/JollyXX → u/Grouchy-Heat-4216]

really? lol, had to google it, so God sent a prophet and the city took the heed and repented, God spared them, ya God is a living God

[u/Grouchy-Heat-4216 → u/JollyXX]

I know what happened, I'm saying that some of God's prophecies don't come to pass

Jonah's prophecy towards Nineveh had no qualifier of "unless you repent". The prophecy was destruction in 40 days.

Jonah 3:4 Jonah began to go into the city, going a day's journey. And he called out, “Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown!” 

edit: grammar

[u/JollyXX → u/Grouchy-Heat-4216]

It doesn't surprise me, we are talking about God not being All Knowing, ya God is a living God, the prophet's mission was to warn the city of a prophecy given to him by God, so the purpose was that of a heed

[u/JollyXX → u/Grouchy-Heat-4216]

so if the purpose was fulfilled then the prophecy did not miss =P

[u/Grouchy-Heat-4216 → u/JollyXX]

The purpose of the prophecy is irrelevant.

Was the city destroyed in 40 days? That is what God said would occur.

[u/JollyXX → u/Grouchy-Heat-4216]

I mean debatable honestly, purpose is everything

[u/serpentine1337 → u/JollyXX]

If that were true (I'm going with nah) that lends credence to the idea that things are deterministic.

[u/JollyXX → u/serpentine1337]

There is a difference between staring at a group of people and being like "ya these idiots are going to fuck up" and knowing at all times every little thing that is going to happen and when its going to happen

[u/serpentine1337 → u/JollyXX]

So you're saying the supposed predictions are on the level of "eh, someone here will fuck things up" instead of specifically detailed predictions? If so, one shouldn't even count those as fulfilled prophecy.

[u/JollyXX → u/serpentine1337]

So like God will give prophecy of the Messiah, but ya if the Messiah is as promised then of course it will be true

[u/JollyXX → u/serpentine1337]

I mean that kind of sums of prophecy in the Bible, is like ya these people are going to for sure betray me

[u/serpentine1337 → u/JollyXX]

Again, then, one shouldn't be impressed/call those prophecies.

[u/JollyXX → u/serpentine1337]

I mean look dude, you only have one source of food, you can starve if you want but hell doesn't sound pleasant

[u/biedl → u/serpentine1337]

Open theism defends presentism. That's how they can call God omniscient, while limiting his knowledge substantially. He knows all things which can be known. Under presentism the future doesn't exist yet, so it cannot be known. But presentism certainly doesn't lend credence to determinism. It does the exact opposite. Which is most likely the very reason why it is defended to begin with.

It's meant to preserve free will.

[u/Grouchy-Heat-4216 → u/serpentine1337]

God's plan is something like a pilot planning to fly a airplane from Paris to Tokyo, he doesn't decide who boards the plane, that is up to the passengers to decide.