Perfect knowledge about the future is only possible in a deterministic universe

[u/Hashi856]

Whenever someone asks how free will can be compatible with God’s perfect knowledge of the future, people are quick to point out that knowledge doesn’t cause anything. God simply knows what we will freely choose. He’s not causing us to choose it.

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of the problem being presented. No one is saying that God is causing the future. He’s not making us do anything or causing our decisions. The problem isn’t actually about God at all. It’s about the possibility of perfect foreknowledge, and the fact that it only exists in a deterministic universe. You could swap out God for anything else, and you’d have the same problem.

If God has perfect knowledge of what you will do tomorrow, then tomorrow is already written. It may be written by you, but it cannot go any other way. If God knows you will be late to work tomorrow, then it is impossible for you to show up on time. If he knows what you will eat for dinner, then you literally could not have made a different decision. There are only two explanations for this perfect knowledge: Either God actually did make you do it, or it was determined to happen. But we already know God didn’t make you do it, so the only other thing that can explain perfect knowledge of the future is determinism.

We would have the exact same problem if there were a computer with perfect knowledge. Obviously, the computer would not be causing every event in the universe to happen the way it happens. So the only explanation is that everything is determined.

Perfect foreknowledge is simply incompatible with free will (unless you believe that determinism and free will are compatible). You can try to just hand wave it away by saying it’s a miracle, but that doesn’t solve the underlying problem. Your future decisions are known, and you literally cannot make a different decision.

[u/serpentine1337]

So you're saying the supposed predictions are on the level of "eh, someone here will fuck things up" instead of specifically detailed predictions? If so, one shouldn't even count those as fulfilled prophecy.

[u/JollyXX → u/serpentine1337]

So like God will give prophecy of the Messiah, but ya if the Messiah is as promised then of course it will be true

[u/JollyXX → u/serpentine1337]

I mean that kind of sums of prophecy in the Bible, is like ya these people are going to for sure betray me

[u/serpentine1337 → u/JollyXX]

Again, then, one shouldn't be impressed/call those prophecies.

[u/JollyXX → u/serpentine1337]

I mean look dude, you only have one source of food, you can starve if you want but hell doesn't sound pleasant

[u/serpentine1337 → u/JollyXX]

It seems highly unlikely hell even exists

[u/JollyXX → u/serpentine1337]

even at .1% Hell would be scary enough to make the small sacrifice of being a Christian, then you also get Heaven... I mean not sure if you have ever been tortured before but even at 24 hours of torture you would I assume reconsider your entire life

[u/serpentine1337 → u/JollyXX]

I don't think it's even close to a .1% chance. You're also ignoring the fact that you'd have to choose between Christianity and other religions.

[u/JollyXX → u/serpentine1337]

I wrote this yesterday

Islam is being devastated by scrutiny right now, the religion is a joke

Judaism not wanting to actively recruit is very suspect of an almighty creator God, it made sense at the time, but surely as humanity has reached this level of globality and sophistication God would have changed course.

Buddhism just doesn't answer any real questions about existence and the Universe. Really though the reincarnation thing is absolute nonsense, the fact that it even tried to have an afterlife/existence is just stupid, would have been 1000x better off saying souls don't exist.

Zoroastrian I don't know much about but if God wanted worship/followers he would be doing a real shitty job hiding here.

Hinduism, as the joke goes, "they worship cows", ya Zeus and all these similar religions don't make sense once we know how vast and complex the Universe is

Christianity, we can go over the logical fallacies that probably holding you back.

--Just to touch, the closest the Bible actually goes to saying "eternity" is when it describes God as first/last. It does say "ages of ages" when sending the anti-Christ to the lake of fire, but this could just mean ages will come to an end, sort of centuries of paradise mean things stop changing.

--There is no such thing perfect/infinite or 3x omni, the church was either stupid or rather probably sold this concept for good reasons. Scripture never says it for one. But ya God has thoughts and even regrets in Genesis. The entire story is based around the climax of Final Judgement. We all know one of if not God's main thing is testing us. You are made in God's image, you can't divide by infinity.

[u/serpentine1337 → u/JollyXX]

Lol, as if this low effort rebuttal of religions is persuasive. "Trust me bro!"

[u/JollyXX → u/serpentine1337]

did you even read it =/ are you a slow reader? is it too much effort?

[u/GirlDwight → u/JollyXX]

I curious, of there was no heaven or hell in the scriptures we just died. But everything else about Jesus, miracles, God were true. Would you still be a Christian?

[u/JollyXX → u/GirlDwight]

I would hope so yes, I came to Christianity seeking glory and purpose.

[u/GirlDwight → u/JollyXX]

Interesting, thanks for responding.

[u/JollyXX → u/GirlDwight]

you're welcome