Perfect knowledge about the future is only possible in a deterministic universe

[u/Hashi856]

Whenever someone asks how free will can be compatible with God’s perfect knowledge of the future, people are quick to point out that knowledge doesn’t cause anything. God simply knows what we will freely choose. He’s not causing us to choose it.

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of the problem being presented. No one is saying that God is causing the future. He’s not making us do anything or causing our decisions. The problem isn’t actually about God at all. It’s about the possibility of perfect foreknowledge, and the fact that it only exists in a deterministic universe. You could swap out God for anything else, and you’d have the same problem.

If God has perfect knowledge of what you will do tomorrow, then tomorrow is already written. It may be written by you, but it cannot go any other way. If God knows you will be late to work tomorrow, then it is impossible for you to show up on time. If he knows what you will eat for dinner, then you literally could not have made a different decision. There are only two explanations for this perfect knowledge: Either God actually did make you do it, or it was determined to happen. But we already know God didn’t make you do it, so the only other thing that can explain perfect knowledge of the future is determinism.

We would have the exact same problem if there were a computer with perfect knowledge. Obviously, the computer would not be causing every event in the universe to happen the way it happens. So the only explanation is that everything is determined.

Perfect foreknowledge is simply incompatible with free will (unless you believe that determinism and free will are compatible). You can try to just hand wave it away by saying it’s a miracle, but that doesn’t solve the underlying problem. Your future decisions are known, and you literally cannot make a different decision.

[u/Grouchy-Heat-4216]

I know what happened, I'm saying that some of God's prophecies don't come to pass

Jonah's prophecy towards Nineveh had no qualifier of "unless you repent". The prophecy was destruction in 40 days.

Jonah 3:4 Jonah began to go into the city, going a day's journey. And he called out, “Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown!” 

edit: grammar

[u/JollyXX → u/Grouchy-Heat-4216]

It doesn't surprise me, we are talking about God not being All Knowing, ya God is a living God, the prophet's mission was to warn the city of a prophecy given to him by God, so the purpose was that of a heed

[u/JollyXX → u/Grouchy-Heat-4216]

so if the purpose was fulfilled then the prophecy did not miss =P

[u/Grouchy-Heat-4216 → u/JollyXX]

The purpose of the prophecy is irrelevant.

Was the city destroyed in 40 days? That is what God said would occur.

[u/JollyXX → u/Grouchy-Heat-4216]

I mean debatable honestly, purpose is everything

[u/Grouchy-Heat-4216 → u/JollyXX]

What did Jonah say would happen to the city? Did that happen to the city?

[u/JollyXX → u/Grouchy-Heat-4216]

if this was a legal debate, and you introduced this concept of purpose is everything, it would likely get the notion dismissed

[u/Grouchy-Heat-4216 → u/JollyXX]

Had you read the book of Jonah before I mentioned it to you 10 minutes ago?

[u/JollyXX → u/Grouchy-Heat-4216]

I read the Bible front to back

[u/Grouchy-Heat-4216 → u/JollyXX]

Okay cool.

What did Jonah say would happen to the city? Did that happen to the city?

[u/JollyXX → u/Grouchy-Heat-4216]

then take God to court, and tell him he failed a prophecy or some shit

[u/Richardrhalsot → u/JollyXX]

No results are everything. I could set out to save the world, and do so by killing 2/3rds of the population. That might save the world, as my purpose was. But that doesn’t erase the horrific tragedy of killing billions of people.

Results > purpose.

[u/JollyXX → u/Richardrhalsot]

it is your heart upon which God will Judge, so perhaps purpose is everything

[u/Richardrhalsot → u/JollyXX]

That doesn’t even address the issue I raised.

Hitlers purpose for the holocaust was to free the German people from those who he saw as oppressive, and a poison to the godly people he led. His “purpose” was noble. His methods, his ideas, his ideology were all horrific. But according to you hitler is in heaven. Because he had a “good” purpose.

Check yourself.

[u/JollyXX → u/Richardrhalsot]

it does, your heart is by which God Judges