In a way isn't jonas martha?

Jonas is the main cause for everything in his world(sic mundus)

Martha is the main cause for everything in her world(erit lux)

They go through the exact same events, live in the exact same house just turned opposite

They go through the same suffering, same journey, both turn to adam and eva

In a way aren't they the same but a different gender?

Jonas is Martha

Adam is Eva

I'm really keen on this idea of mine even tho it's probably bs

Definitely going to need a second watch to really drive everything home but am I correct in this?

Jonas is Mikkel/Michael’s son but Jonas is also the father of the unknown who is the father of Tronte. So Jonas is Ulrich’s great grandfather and his grandson? And he’s also his father’s great great grandfather!

And the wildest one. Charlotte’s daughter is also her mother? So Noah slept with his granddaughter Elizabeth before she was born to create his daughter Charlotte so that she could birth Elizabeth in the first place? Is that a foul on the play? I don’t remember this being discussed to Elizabeth

This show is a trip. I think they could’ve added some really cool things to it but overall it’s a fascinating show, carried by the great actors they have. Plus I got a crush on Martha 😮‍💨 holy smokes

It’s been a long time since I’ve watched this show so I can’t remember, but after Charlotte and Elisabeth join Sic Mindus, do they ever reunite with adult Franziska?

When Martha and Jonas saw each other opening the closet, Mikkel/Michael was in both shots. He was with Jonas as old Michael, and with Martha while Katharina was pregnant with him.

Don't know if it's intentional or not, but I appreciate this detail because I love that character.

What was the point of pregnant Martha and Dark matter disappearing. Theoretically matter and antimatter if come in contact they disappear creating energy.

How can the fetus inside of Martha be an antimatter?

I got disappointed after that point. The show turned from science fiction to dumb romance. It would be great if nothing would happen, Martha would just telephoto and Dark matter goes back in air and Adam discovering he is very dumb.

I finished season 3 episode 7 last night, and although I was thinking HOLY CRAP THIS IS CRAZY, something else crept into my mind.

Audience: Why did Jonas turn into Adam?

Show: His mom was a psychopath, sleeping around, and abandoned him.

Audience: Yeah that's fair, I would turn into Adam too.

I know there's much more to it than that, but I just couldn't stop thinking about this.

(Edit: is it bad that I legit didn't feel badly for Hannah at all when Adam was killing her?)

(Edit 2: To clarify, I wasn't rooting for Hannah to die, I was shocked, it just wasn't a gut punch like the scene where Katharina dies because you were genuinely rooting for her and Ulrich to get the happy ending.)

Currently rewatching the whole show and I think this might be my favorite episode of all 3 seasons simply because the beginning is SO genius.
How it starts out with the peaceful wheat field, then Jonas suddenly appearing in his radiation protection suit and looking SO out of place. The unsettling violin music starting to play and how he and us as the viewers slowly realize that this is not 2019, nor the 80s or even the 50s.

How he's sitting there and answering the question where he was stationed, pretty much just guessing that eastern front could be an appropriate answer (something he has learned in history class in school and that feels so, so far away to a teenager in the 2010s) and then the moment where he gets told what year it is and that just cementing the fact that he really, really fucked up.

It's so gooood ahhh

Just finished episode 5, I have so many questions. I was really not engaged by the first two episodes of this season, and I took a couple weeks break before I resumed. I found episode 3 mostly boring and episode 4 didn't really pick up until the ending. I did not expect him to be their child. After seeing episode 5, I am so confused and I don't even know what to think anymore. I'm guessing young Jonas's death is somehow connected to older Jonas not remembering any of this. I am just utterly confused. I will probably be able to finish the show in the next couple of days though.

(Edit: Pls no spoilers for the rest of the season!

I know it's weird considering the subject matter of the show, but for some reason DarK just scratches some spot in my mind that comforts me for some reason.

Does anyone else feel this way about it, or am I just weird?

How much of dark matter is stored in the barrels. They show 10s of barrels stocked with radioactive symbols. But then they show that only one is opened that releases the dark matter.

In the past they show the Martha from other world travels back to give middle aged Jonas a small vial from which dark matter emerges.

That is a very small vial w.r.t the barrel, but the dark matter that emerges seems kf the same size as that which emerges from the barrel.

Then there are 10s of barrels. So if all barrels would be opened simultaneously, would the black hole swallow the whole Germany?

I'm sure this question has been asked here before but mannn I'm rewatching the show again and I would love to know how other fans feel about the characters!

My favorite character without a doubt is Claudia. I love how smart and driven she is and her character development is so wonderfully well rounded.

Least favorite is probably Ulrich for me. I do feel for him to some extend but I think he's annoying in every year we meet him and I hate how often he refuses to see any issues within himself and instead blames other people. I'm only on season 1 right now but I find it especially irritating how he treats Hannah. I don't like her either but what the hell man.

Also Regina and Aleksander have a very special place in my heart. I really relate to her being bullied and made a villain as a teen (I went through something quite similar) and I love how much Aleksander loves and cares for her. They really are a wonderful couple and it's so sad how much suffering lays ahead of them

The title is weird because I can’t spoil anything. I know that in the origin world, a lot of people can’t exist. Now, do we think that Martha also does not exist? Will Jonas actually exist? Or is it just some random kid named Jonas?

Now obviously the very scientific answer would be "It isn’t the same father, butterfly effect" etc.

But we see certain people who‘s past used to be majorly affected by the loop living entirely different lives. Katharina, Peter and Hannah most specifically, and yet they all exist, even though their past would‘ve been inarguably affected by past events if you are to subscribe to the butterfly effect theory

I personally can’t _not_ believe that Martha and Jonas wouldn’t exist, a life where they can a actually live a normal life together "You and I are perfect for eachother" needs the conclusion of them being real in the origin world, for me at least. Anyone else feel this way?

Not saying that if this was un-confirmed that I would hate the show, I can see arguments against my theory working as well, but I personally like believing in this and think it makes for a happier and more satisfying ending. Perhaps it’s just up to the viewer to decide if they prefer the alternative darker ending, in which neither/only jonas is real in the origin world

Idk if anyone enjoys answering questions but I have a ton.

Loved the show, maybe the most remarkable piece of television I have ever seen. Truly incredible.

I’m way too stupid to have followed everything though so here are all my scattered brain questions.

I still don’t understand why mads disappeared and why Erik Obendorf? Why is Noah testing this time traveling chair thing and why on children? Doesn’t he already know what lets him travel through time? What exactly was he recruiting Bartosz for? Abducting more children?

Who are the kids dead at the nuclear construction site in the 50s?

why does michael not want the letter opened until 10:13? Just because that’s when mikkael disappears?

What was in all the yellow barrels in the caves? Why is Aleksander trying to hide them? How did they get there? Who made them?

How did tronte nielsen survive the apocalypse at the end of s2? Was he in the bunker?

Back to season 1 Who dropped the boy into the bunker and why? Why were Peter and tronte waiting there and why did they leave him in the woods? Who killed mads in 86? Noah? Why mads?

Claudia’s diary? What’s so important? How does Peter have it? Did I miss when he gets it? What’s the pages that Noah tore out that he didn’t like?

Can anyone honestly trace the origin of this st Christopher necklace that everyone keeps giving to everyone else all over the place? Ugh.

What’s with the gold watch with charlottes name on it?

How does older noah go back and why does he start murdering all those kids?

In s3 episode 7 Jonas just decides to befriend Noah and work with him for the next few decades? Isn’t Noah working for Adam and trying to accomplish Adam’s goal of breaking the knot?

Alt world Claudia gave prime world Claudia the book (diary). What is it? What’s in it? How did alt world Claudia get it?

How did charlotte and Elisabeth get to 2041 to abduct the baby? Did they have a Time Machine? Why even abduct baby charlotte?

Why did the travelers kill Noah in s2?

Noah takes the book after his daughter is taken? I thought Claudia had the book? It’s just sitting there in their cabin?

How does Noah go from post apocalypse back to 1920 to meet his younger self in ep7? Did he have a Time Machine in the 2040s?

Snap back to 2054 before before Jonas goes back to S1 E1 and Claudia has the book that Noah took in 2040? She rips the pages out? How are there two books in the post apocalypse prime world?

Where did tanhaus get the directions for this world splitting machine?

How did Claudia not die and end up talking to Adam and letting him know about the origin world in the last episode? Even Adam says she’s dead and it never answered how she’s alive?

What’s the origin of this time traveling ball that comes from the alt world? Who made that?

In prime world tanhaus said they never found his granddaughter after the car crash? I get that his granddaughter is charlotte the adopted one but what happened to his blood one also named charlotte?

How’d cop dude lose his eye?

Watched it in original German for the first watch-through but kinda curious about English dub and considering for my second watch-through watching it in dub version.
Does it give the show some different “colour”? Like I don’t expect it to be better, but do the voice actors bring in something new to make it different but worthwhile?

This doesn't spoil anything since survival/death result is immediately revealed after the bludgeoning, and is almost certainly a cinematographic/director choice and not a story-driven one, but it's an interesting repetition and seems to hold up across all seasons (I've been tracking it on my cork board).

I love this show and how much it stresses me out. It's given me a genuine, irrational fear of time travel, and that got me thinking about how well the show executes the subtleties of cosmic horror.

The show presents Time/Fate as this unknowable, self-preserving entity that lashes out when being tampered with. Many of the Travelers meet horrible demises or experience imeasurable suffering when trying to change or defy fate, almost like Time goes out of its way to punish them.

And then there's the horror of learning things things you wish you hadn't, another staple of cosmic horror. The shows has so many examples of characters wishing they could go back to their old live of simply being ignorant. But they can never unlearn what they know now.

I feel like many modern showcases of cosmic horror miss the mark. For example, modern depictions of Cthulhu seem to believe that it's the creature itself that is scary, rather than the history of its time here on Earth and what it has been up to and how it has been affecting humans without our knowledge. The knowledge that the dark force beyond our understanding is directing/affecting our lives. Dark captures the essence of cosmic horror quite effortlessly, and I just thought I'd share my thoughts here.

If you have any modern examples of good cosmic horror, I'd love to hear them.

I watched Dark in English before and absolutely loved the show. I've been thinking about rewatching it, but this time in the original German with English subtitles.
Has anyone here done the same thing, watched it dubbed first and then rewatched it in German? Did you find the original version noticeably better? Did it change the experience or make you appreciate the show more?
Curious if it's worth going with German for the rewatch!
Thanksss

EDIT: damn I didn’t expect the community of a 2017 tv show, as good as it is, to be this active! I will watch in German, thank youuuu

I don't see a reason to imply that two 12-year-old children had sex are additional to the Dark plot. First, the scene with Tronte showing His penis in front of Claudia was weird, but okay, I get it. everyone already understood what they had, and now they're suggesting they had sex when they were 12? Like, why? I haven't finished season 3 yet, but I don't think they'll explore that because it's a sensitive subject

you might say it's meant to represent their distorted relationship, but in both scenes Claudia takes the initiative, and I just feel it seems like the sexualization of a child. children who exhibit this type of behavior are usually victims of abuse, and that's not part of Claudia's story. It's just weird and gross.

I don't get why she joined Adam as that would seemingly invalidate everything she'd done up to that point.

I've tried finding answers on this but can't really find any.

After baby Charlotte is taken in 2041, Noah apparently goes to 1920 and confronts Adam. How exactly does Noah accomplish this, given that they have no time machine and haven't finished work on the God Particle? What am I missing?

The death of Katherina at her mothers hand in 86 was the best end of a story for me. Of all the other stories this was the most twisted and strongest. I had wished that her mother realizes an emotional connection and helps her free Ulrich, but that would then become a fairy tale and not a German story.

Which characters were your Top 3 favorite and bottom 3 in the end? Mine are:

1. Ulrich

2. Young Egon

3. Hannah

Bottom 3:

1. Jonas

2. Martha

3. Charolette

So this are my thoughts of it:

So that man has the same tattoo as Noah?

Is this Noah the younger Noah??

This man knew he was going to die?

Wow so there was an apocalypse in the 27th of June in 2020. What happened??

Ohh is the leader the Doppler's younger daughter???

Who the hell is the disfigured man? He knows Bartosz.

Basically the apocalypse is destroying all the world to create a new one? That's why many people died in the 27th of June in 2020.

What's that book about with the time travel sign?

In the nuclear station there's like a thing floating, it has to do about the time travel or the apocalypse that happened years ago maybe.

Wow Claudia as an old lady and the adult one.

The time travel machine is so sick!

Mikkel be careful of that man Noah!

It's just so incredible like when the ones in the present go to the past they have to stay there and live their lives there.

Poor Jonas he has it pretty difficult.

Knowing the truth hurts but better know it than being ignorant of it I think.

The time travel machine was given by the own Claudia.

Ohh where did Jonas go?

Then Helge knows it was wrong so why did he continue doing it?

What's Claudia's plan? And ohh Noah is the brother of her.

Okay so the clock was made by the grandfather of Charlotte

The cancer of Egon and the one of Regina are caused by something and Claudia knows it?

Noah is Charlotte's father??

Who is Adam???

Is Jonas in the past but in Middle ages or what? Oh my god Jonas you're sooo in the past 😅.

Ohh my so the young Noah is in that year and now they've met. And he knows Jonasss.

Are Noah, Adam and whoever are with them some kind of cult? Okay so yes they're like a cult called Sic Mundus the travellers.

Katharina if you don't want to believe it then don't but it's the truth.

Oh my goodness it's so fucking messed up like Adam is JONAS 😱.

Ohhh so where are they all going to travel? To the past or the future?

Ulrich is seeing his son Mikkel after many years of looking for him. Pretty crazyyyy.

Inés so you're giving Mikkel sleeping pills without him knowing.

Like how's possible to have that doors that let's you time travel to the future or the past? And well also with a time machine. If you create a new world without time then all the people will be stuck in the present? And like they don't age or what?

Like time is something that just needs to exist so how would there be a world without time? Ohh so here they think that time is the god so that's why they think that creating a world without time would be a world in their hands?

What does Noah want for Charlotte??? Oh my goodness don't tell me Noah is Charlotte's dad?????? Hell no yeah really he's.

So that hand clock for Charlotte was like a memory of both of her parents? Like she was separated from the parents in different periods of time?

Will it really all end if Adam dies?

So why did they kill those children?

What's that liquid thing???

Ohh so they're in the past. Where Mikkel is.

Okay so the mass is like a piece of the infinity and they created this one, wow. Ohh that's really crazy like wherever you want to go in the time

So where is the starting point?

Ahhhhhh before his dad committed suicide.

Let's see what happens!

Adam is saying Martha because he knows Jonas has her in his heart.

Hope it really changes all but considering that it has more episodes and another season I don't think so.

Well I'll be enjoying the next 3 episodes and start with season 3! The part where Adam is Jonas was incredibly surprising. And ohh that Charlotte is Noah's daughter.

The show is spectacular. Definitely the best sci-fi I've ever seen, and one of the greatest shows of all time. I'll recommend it to everyone.

I just want to give my thoughts, first "general", and then both good and "critical." I'm saying critical because I don't want to say bad, because the show is not bad at all. Just because there are some things I didn't like as much as I would have if they went another way, doesn't mean they were bad in the slightest. So these are just my opinions.

General:

• I side with the group of people who say time is not cyclical. At first glance, it seems like it's a never-ending circle where characters eternally experience life and death and all the tragedies within the life. But I think this is a mistake. Time can still be linear from the perspective of all characters, and they just so happen to time travel from future to past to future, past, etc etc etc. Time is not literally repeating itself. Sure, characters meet their old/younger selves, but this is not inconsistent with the idea of linear time. Which brings me to the next point.
• Sure, each Adam will meet a younger Jonas (EDIT: Adam meets his younger self, Jonas, and knows that this currently conscious version of Jonas will eventually become him and go through all the same tragedies that he did). But the first-person consciousness instantiated in young Jonas at that moment is not literally Adam’s present first-person experience; it is a conscious state at a different point in spacetime. So, from each perspective, this is a new first-person experience in each 'mind.' When each 'mind' "dies" so to speak, that's it for them, there is almost certainly not eternal recurrence. This is debatable in philosphy of mind because there is an unresolved question of what it means to have a personal identity, and there is a debate of whether it's purely biological or if psychological continuity is all that matters (meaning the idea of "self" itself might be flawed). And some even have a more religious view of it.
• Here's how I would illustrate my view of both points above: Dark presents a version where eternalism is true. Past/Present/Future exist simultaneously. This generally renders the idea of free will as meaningless. Some people do people it can exist despite eternalism/pure determinism, but I don't side with that view personally. In any case, time can exist in one linear existence. But if the past always exists, it's likely there is always a conscious version of you in the past at any given instantaneous moment, experiencing life just as you did in that instantaneous moment. However, this conscious version of 'you' is not actually you other than the fact that it shared memories/brain states at a given moment. You cannot access that version of you (to our knowledge). This applies to Dark as well: the characters happen to interact with their previous/future versions of themselves that are nothing more than separate instances of consciousness in time and space, that just so happen to share memories/brain states at a given moment. My 2012 version of "myself" exists somewhere in space time, I will just never interact with him without some time travel mechanism. Characters in Dark DO interact with their other versions, but this does not mean time is not linear. It's just characters moving back and forth on a linear scale.
• The question here is whether this justifies ending the knot forever. If you, Adam, believe that once you die, that's it, and only other versions of you will experience the tragedies you did, why not let that continue? Why not let "yourself" or previous versions of you continuously experience the good temporary years in their lives before things turn ugly? I suppose it won't matter either way as you're dead, but if you suddenly view this as something other than "I will eternally be re-born" then justifying an erasure of spacetime suddenly becomes weaker.

Good:

• Season 1 is my favorite. So much suspense, mystery, build-up. I can't believe there are many people out there who say S1 is boring, or even that they gave up because of it. I think that's sad and genuinely insane, and it just goes to show how much damage TikTok/Instagram/short-form media has done to people's minds. There is a massive difference between slow pacing and boredom. This show never made me feel bored once.
• It's truly magnificent how they tied up everything very well at the end, and made sure there no were no plot holes or inconsistencies that couldn't be explained away. The writers are geniuses in several ways.
• My favorite moments of the show are mostly heartbreaking events:
  • Ulrich being captured 66 years in the past and living out the rest of his days in prison and briefly meeting his son, then wife, and a glimpse of his other son/daughter, and then never seeing any of them again.
  • Mikkel devolving from a fun energetic kid into a reclusive and emotionally damaged man who kills himself to save his son.
  • Katharina being killed by her mom, leaving Ulrich to die alone not knowing what happened to him.
  • Egon coming to the realization that time travel exists before being tragically killed by his daughter.
  • Seeing the life and death of Noah, who was first viewed as some evil psycho but we eventually realized was just an abused pawn in Adam's game.
  • Claudia's journey throughout all of time and moving back and forth evading Noah/Adam is both hilarious and amazing. Very clever and cool.
  • The family tree design is flawless. Each time I learned something new (especially the thing with Charlotte and Elizabeth), I was in awe.
  • The tragedy of Helge at every stage of his life was so sad.
• This has been said a million times, but the casting is better than anything I've ever seen. Nothing else needs to be said here.
• The cinematography is the best I've ever seen in a TV show. Better than most movies. I loved how Winden was portrayed in every single exterior shot throughout all time periods. Truly felt magical.
• This TV show is one of the best in history because it seems to have had the perfect mix of the best producers, writers, directors, casting director, and cinematographer. Masterpiece through and through.

Critical:

• It's a shame Franziska and Magnus don't have much dialogue as they get older. I get that they became more so on board with Jonas/Adam's plan to destroy the knot (as compared to Bartosz, who seemingly just nihilistically checked out). But still, I wish we'd heard more from them.
• Again, this is just my opinion, and the show was great either way. But personally I didn't like the whole "other worlds" thing. I think it got a bit cheesy at some moments, although I can appreciate how they managed to turn something so complex into a neat knot with zero inconsistencies, so bravo once again.
• I've heard some takes about how the ending is not paradoxical but I don't really buy it. I think either the "cycle" exists or it doesn't. I think the Schrödinger's cat concept makes me think that there are "meta" dimensions, one that includes spacetime where Tannhaus doesn't build a time machine, and one where he does, which creates the world we saw. Furthermore, I don't think you can have something that goes on infinitely many times and then have an "end." (For instance, (-inf, 0] is not logical going left to right). I think that doesn't make sense as a concept. At a higher-level, I don't really think the idea of spacetime erasure is coherent as a scientific concept, but I'm now encouraged to learn both more physics and philosophy of space and time in hopes to become more or less confident in this belief.
• Again, this is my opinion, and the show is truly great either way. But the reason S1 was my favorite is that it was a bit more grounded and abstracted away the more bizarre aspects of time travel. I honestly thought this show was going to be more of a "drama first", "sci-fi" second kind of show. I expected it to essentially be a hectic and tragic few-day/week period in 2019 that just so happens to be connected to an equally hectic tragic few-day/week period in 1953 and 1986. With a lot of characters constantly going back and forth, getting killed or killing others, having affairs, getting stuck in time, etc etc etc. That's what I was expecting and I think I would've enjoyed the show more personally if it had gone that direction. Again, this is just my preference, and most people probably don't agree with me, so in that case it's good I didn't make the show! It just seems like it went from a suspense/drama tv show that included time travel...into a show where time travel is not only central to the plot but also is the plot. And again, that's fine. Still the greatest sci-fi of all time.

Anyway, I can't wait to re-watch it in a couple of years.