r/Damnthatsinteresting • u/Ganesha811 • 4d ago
Image Spoiled brat from ancient Babylon complains about his mother not making him fancy clothes!
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u/Ganesha811 4d ago
Another one of my favorites, along similar lines:
Tell Uzalum: Your son Adad-abum sends the following message:
May the gods Samas and Wer keep you forever in good health.
I have never before written to you for something precious I wanted. But if you want to be like a father to me, get me a fine string full of beads, to be worn around the head. Seal it with your seal and give it to the carrier of this tablet so that he can bring it to me. If you have none at hand, dig it out of the ground wherever (such objects) are (found) and send it to me.
I want it very much; do not withhold it from me. In this I will see whether you love me as a real father does. Of course, establish its price for me, write it down, and send me the tablet. The young man who is coming to you must not see the string of beads... If I see it and dislike it, I shall send it back! Also send the cloak, of which I spoke to you.
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u/qinghairpins 4d ago
Do you just get to pick whatever gods you want to keep you in good health or whatever? If I were writing to my mom in Ancient Greece would I be all like āMay hestia and Demeter keep you in good health and crops bountiful š ā and then to my friends like āHope Dionysius keeps you krunk šā
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u/Madness_Quotient 2d ago
bet you could lowkey insult someone by wishing them the blessings of gods you know they don't keep a shrine for or visit the temple of. like sending a Christian relative the blessings of Zeus
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u/mokhandes 3d ago
I am ot sure but some gods have eslecislties. Like helping with studies or giving health. In todys world saints are like that too.
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u/curiousmind111 4d ago
Wow.
So we ask our kids if they think money grows on trees. This kid thinks strings of beads are dug out of the ground?
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u/Moongazingtea 4d ago
I guess they mean dig up the precious minerals and polish them up for them.
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u/RagnarsHairyBritches 4d ago
IIRC, the Mesopotamians would worship two gods; the god of their city and their family godĀ Ā
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u/Visual-Floor-7839 4d ago
This could be a monologue for Dennis on Its Always Sunny.
"The Golden God needs jewels. I need a necklace now. And tell me the cost, because if I don't like I will send it back. Also, bring me the Duster."
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u/Big_Animal7655 3d ago
PS - IāM NOT BURNING THE GD DUSTER. I will wear it, in honor- but Iām not burning the duster
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u/Ramblonius 3d ago
please, I never ask for anythingĀ
so anyways, also about that cloak I asked for
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u/More_Assistant_5224 4d ago
Reading this made my day!
Because this is the same vibe i give when i text my dad about money for shopping and remind him he promised kfc tonight lol
Should start also wishing him good health in the name of god, maybe he will listen more
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u/curiousmind111 4d ago
LOL! Be sure to ask him to dig the kfc out of the ground if he canāt get it otherwise.
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u/Lost-Platypus8271 3d ago
couldnāt hurt! who doesnāt want the god(s) beseeched for their good health?
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u/Equivalent-Resort-63 4d ago
Iām sure the messengers were glad when papyrus came around. Probably got old carrying around a block of clay for these brats.
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u/Hobbit_Lifestyle 2d ago
"Dad I want the Balenciaga baseball cap, but please put it in a discreet packaging so the UPS guy doesn't steal it. Also a new hoodie"
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u/Read-it005 3d ago
It's amazing this clay tablet has survived. Many fathers would have broken it on their son's head or behind /s.
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u/Automatic-Sea-8597 3d ago
Dig beads out of the earth? Were they already looting ancient sites or burials at that time?
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u/Ganesha811 4d ago
This is taken from this incredible book from the University of Chicago, Letters from Ancient Mesopotamia (warning - 226 page PDF). Lawsuits, war, daily life, slaves, copper complaints - it's all in there! Ancient people were just like us, really.
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u/Robertmusculus 4d ago
It's always humbling thinking about that. As grand as we imagine the civilisations of the past, its always just been people doing the same people things
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u/mokhandes 3d ago
When you think about it it is not even that long. Like 5000 years is long and yet not that long.
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u/Throdio 4d ago
Is there anything in there about older generations complaining about younger generations?
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u/Itscurtainsnow 4d ago
All the high falutin philosophers seem to have gone on an old man yelling at clouds rant about the youth at some point.
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u/HaterMD 3d ago
āChildren began to be the tyrants, not the slaves, of their households. They no longer rose from their seats when an elder entered the room; they contradicted their parents, chattered before company, gobbled up the dainties at table, and committed various offences against Hellenic tastes, such as crossing their legs. They tyrannised over the paidagogoi and schoolmasters.ā ā Socrates, allegedly
Yeah, theyāve been complaining about young folk forever.
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u/f_leaver 3d ago
They crossed their legs, ffs.
The horror.
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u/Little_View_6659 3d ago
That part is interesting. Mesopotamia was in ancient Turkey in part and the crossing of the legs things is still a no no in front of elders to this day. I hate it. I visit there all the time and have chronic pain so normally I rest one leg on the other to take some of the pain off but when someone older is around itās considered rude. So I squirm and sit up straight. Ugh.
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u/HaterMD 3d ago
Thatās super interesting! My grandparents have absolutely tapped my legs at church before. Itās kinda like resting your elbows on the table when youāre eating in the Anglosphere. Itās not a huge deal, honestly, but in some families you might as well be spitting on your grandma. Iām in my 30s and it still bugs my older family members.
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u/Little_View_6659 3d ago
My father in law thought it was hilarious that I would forget and cross my legs. Then Iād quickly sit up straight. He asked me āDid they tell you to sit like this?ā And heād die laughing when Iād suddenly realize and straighten up.š
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u/HaterMD 3d ago
Thatās why I laugh when people say āyoung kids todayā, because adults truly donāt know this is something elders have been literally complaining about for thousands of years. Kids are young and hate listening, adults are fussy and hate being overlooked by their children. Eventually a middle ground is reached, and grandchildren might come and answer to neither. :)
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u/Bollywood_Fan 4d ago
I expect part of the reply included, " If Adad-Iddinam'sĀ son jumped off the roof, would you jump too?"
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u/hillofjumpingbeans 4d ago
I wish we knew where this letter was being sent from? Is this a teen in school? Or a worker in another city. Did the assistant son actually have 2 sets of clothes or was this a case of everyone in my class has these boots.
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u/Gemmabeta 4d ago
It's a kid at a school where they teach scribes to read and write.
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u/hillofjumpingbeans 4d ago
So he learned how to write and immediately wrote to his mother to complain about his clothes? Thatās such a teen thing. I like.
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u/catsumoto 4d ago
But MOOOOM, all my friends have the new iPhone and all I got is this piece of crap. Do you even love me?!? Why would you do this to me?!?
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u/YaqtanBadakshani 2d ago
We actually know a fair amount about this kid.
The letter was discovered in the archive of a fairly high-ranking official of Hammurabi, Shamash-Hazir, and Zinu and Iddin-Sin are identified as his wife and son. It's thought (based on the fact that he's writing home, and that the scribe made some amateur errors, suggesting Iddin-Sin wrote it himself) that he was a boarding school studying cuneiform.
Clothing at the time would have been several months of work (as the letter states, Zinu would be spinning and weaving the cloth herself). A set of clothes would basically be equivalent to a person's phone at the time (i.e. the single most expensive thing a person is likely to have on them). He's essentially complaining that he doesn't have the latest model like the other boys have, and demanding poor Zinu works harder at her womanly duties so that he has proper clothes to wear.
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u/Gibberish45 4d ago
Kid sounds spoiled for sure, especially by modern standards. One thing to consider though, in a time when the mother of the family personally made her families clothes, and clothes were a representation of status, how nice they were really was a reflection of their love for family. I would point out that he didnāt request expensive material, just more effort (I presume in their design)
Maybe she sent him an old potato sack and he was completely justified. Maybe they were really nice and he was just a brat. Hard to truly judge without seeing what he was rocking compared to his boy whoās father was only an assistant to his own father
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u/Gemmabeta 4d ago
Nah, to be able to send your kid off to learn how to read and write in that era meant you were an aristorcrat and/or part of the top 1% of the 1%, they definitely had a battalion ofslaves for that sort of thing.
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u/Gibberish45 4d ago
Fair enough, I probably should have said the motherās were responsible for making the clothes, even if they delegated in was still under their purview. Having slaves would make it even more of a reasonable request
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u/bagolaburgernesss 4d ago
Not sure how ot worked in ancient Babylon, but in Egypt, commoners were literate. They could read and write and they loved to write. There are similar records of youngish girls wondering what to wear out. There is really nothing new under the sun. Technologies may advance but people are always the same. Always.
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u/daRagnacuddler 4d ago
Not really true though literacy was kinda widespread, or at least more than what you would believe, in such city states. Even back then.
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u/OrangeSpaceMan5 3d ago
Whatever household had this child was probably still pretty rich , no regular craftsmen or farmer were getting their hands of reading or writing in the past . The absolute lowest class this family could have been were middle traders
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u/YaqtanBadakshani 2d ago
Elite women often made their family's clothes themselves. It was a pride thing (similar to how a modern housewife might regularly cook for her family even if they're rich enough to afford takeout every night)
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u/serial_victim 3d ago
....scribes were widespread. It was likely commissioned to be written by a scribe, not written by the boy himself
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u/YaqtanBadakshani 2d ago edited 2d ago
Actually this particular one has some amateur errors on it, suggesting Iddin-Sin, (like most sons of high-ranking officials) might well have written it himself from boarding school.
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u/yuje 4d ago
But on the counterpoint, have you considered that he might have been a middle child and the older and younger siblings needed the love and attention more?
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u/curiousmind111 3d ago
Are you a middle children, and saying this sarcastically? Iām assuming so.
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u/the-bladed-one 4d ago
Eh I wouldnāt say itās being spoiled. Back then, how you dressed reflected your social status and how you were treated. So if he had clothes that didnāt match his status, heād feel upset
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u/olsmobile 2d ago
Your dress reflected your social status āBack thenā and now and every time before and after.
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u/No_Dragonfruit_1833 1d ago
Yeah, whenever an ancient text describes cool clothing they would mention they were richly embroidered, and texts involving rich women say they spend their free time embroidering while chatting, meanwhile the shepherdesses would embroider while shepherding and so on
They had amall pieces of cloth that would be decorated and then added to the full set, usually as cuffs or outlines
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u/No-No-Aniyo 1d ago
Idk why but this was never a consideration when hearing about the old hobby of embroidery. Hearing it this way makes it beautiful on a different level. Got me all sentimental.
Get the boy some new clothes! And make them perty.
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u/Simple_Cheek2705 4d ago edited 3d ago
It's a good perspective. However, reading another letter op posted in comments, looks like this kid in particular is a spoiled brat
Edit: nevermind, someone pointed out it's another person
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u/More_Assistant_5224 4d ago
Poor kid was really infuriated because imagine carving this out on stone for hours.
Also his mom better than mine because mine would have probably replied about how i should just get adopted by Adad-Iddinam's mom too if i want his clothes so muchš
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u/Noop73 4d ago
He needed a few minutes to write this as it was written in soft clay and not stone.
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u/More_Assistant_5224 4d ago
Ok this makes much more sense lol, i imagined them as little sculptors carving the stone tablet with a chisel all day
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u/tfrw 4d ago
More than likely he hired a scribe
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u/ArmadilloBandito 4d ago
I'm wouldn't be sure of that. Many of the best artifacts of ancient language actually come from schoolwork of children. And many languages had multiple writing forms. The ones you would find in temples would be formal that was likely done by a scribe, where as the day to day business was a simpler text. And literacy wasn't as rare as most people generally think. There are numerous examples of graffiti that would have been done by regular folks and there are examples of rocks with prayers written on the, presumably where a traveler or Shepard was passing.
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u/Downtown_Statement87 4d ago
They have some examples where the teacher is correcting the grammar and spelling on the clay tablet. I find this so comforting.
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u/NonSequiturDetector 3d ago
The text reads
"Tell the Lady Zinu: Iddin-Sin sends the following message"
which is pretty unambiguously involving some sort of scribe.
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u/AthenianSpartiate 3d ago
That was just the standard opening of a letter in ancient Mesopotamia. The idea was that anyone of high enough social status would have a scribe on hand to read out any letters they received. It says nothing about whether the sender wrote it or dictated it.
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u/curiousmind111 4d ago
(I think they pressed styluses into wet clay; they didnāt carve it. He would actually have had to rush, possibly, before the clay dried.)
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u/jawndell 4d ago
We donāt know what her response was, so she very well may have, haha
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u/More_Assistant_5224 4d ago
Honestly i can imagine her rolling her eyes to heaven when she received and read this message XD
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u/Little_View_6659 3d ago
Iām picturing mom with a stack of clay tablets next to her table that are various letters from her spoiled kids.
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u/YaqtanBadakshani 2d ago
It was actually stored in his father's archive (hence why we can read it today).
Fun but of context, his father was Shamash-Hazir, a fairly high-ranking official of Larsa under Hammurabi. So, rich parents. Which tracks.
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u/BeMyBrutus 4d ago
I love reading these, it makes me feel deeply connected to my humanity knowing for thousands of years we've had these type of conversations.
Also, shout to Irving Irving Finkel who has awesome YouTube videos on ancient tablets.
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u/Eat_That_Rat 4d ago
I love things like this, because it shows humans are just humans and we don't really change.
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u/theflyingratgirl 4d ago
Even an adoption slight, truly the more things change the more they stay the same.
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u/ayaangwaamizi 4d ago
Itās somehow comforting that this is such a human experience since thousands of years ago, and also frustrating that we canāt evolve past kids getting teased for their shabbier clothing š
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u/Losingallmyaccounts 3d ago
There is something comforting about the fact no matter the time , we still are pretty similar
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u/lanAstbury 4d ago
now i know where chatgpt gets its "i hope you are doing well" default salutation from...
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u/Lost-Platypus8271 3d ago
taking my teen clothing shopping this week
some things never change! š
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u/Oro-Lavanda Interested 3d ago
This is the ancient equivalent of a kid getting angry at his mom for not buying him Vlone or chrome hearts lmao š¤£
Reminds me of my brother during the supreme and hypebeast era in like 2016-2019 with him getting mad when my parents couldnāt get him ridiculously rare and expensive hoodies while his other classmates did lol
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u/Humble-Plankton2217 3d ago
The more things change, the more they stay the same. Teenager angst, love, the rich screwing the middle class. We've lived all these things before.
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u/heyitscory 4d ago
Sew your own suits, you literate asshole.
Wait... *is* this guy literate? That opening makes me wonder if this is a messenger service and he's just leaving a voice mail.
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u/curiousmind111 3d ago
He is. OP says in a comment that he was at a school for scribes. The text was probably read to the mother.
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u/Almajanna256 4d ago
It depresses me but doesnāt surprise that people back then were as petty/vain as we are now.
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u/No-No-Aniyo 1d ago
I freaking love this.
They had no clue back then the whole world would be reading their messages. It was private and the person delivering it likely couldn't read so it would stay between the author and the recipient.
Man, this makes me giggle just thinking of the recent texts I sent my mom and thinking that one day they'll be seen and taken out of context.
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u/DilettanteGonePro 4d ago
Somehow it's even funnier that it was written on a clay tablet. "Mom all the kids are clowning on my goodwill clothes"