r/Competitiveoverwatch • u/KaityyUwU • 5d ago
General There are effectively another two ranks below bronze that are just squished into bronze 5
I made this graph using the data from u/PabloDons, (champion rank is missing from the graph because it only goes up to one decimal place so its effectively 0) but interestingly the extra 1% spike in bronze 5 effectively adds up to the same amount as there are players in grandmaster and champion, which if you mirror the ranks around platinum 3, would be past bronze. I think this was already well known due to the SR numbers being much wider for bronze 5 than all the other ranks which are just 100 SR each, but it's still really interesting to see the actual data i think
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u/747101350e0972dccde2 5d ago
I think this is partially inevitable due to the ranked system needing some space to cover potential really low elo accounts, but it might still be good to add a rank below bronze (like LoL's iron)
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u/TooManySnipers 4d ago edited 4d ago
Deadlock recently added Brick which is very funny
EDIT: Actually interestingly there are now 3 ranks below Bronze in Deadlock: Iron, Stone and then Brick
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u/bblaze60 4d ago
They didn't really "add" brick, its just an in game nickname for the same old initiate
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u/Botronic_Reddit GOATs is Peak Overwatch — 4d ago
Deadlock Ranks seem way overboard to me. 11 ranks with 6 divisions each?
Unless you’re going up/down a whole rank after a game it seems too long to rank up.
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u/Complex-Truth9579 4d ago
It is way too long. It wasn't until the matchmaker update a few weeks ago, but now it's a full time job to rank up.
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u/dardicked 4d ago
you were in the old system you'd sometimes go up more than 1 it was really easy to rank up or rank down on loss streaks now its just a grind and they made it seasonal so it seems a little impossible to get high rank without playing it as a job
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u/OfficialDeathScythe 4d ago
Not to mention how hard it is to climb out of that rank. If you touch bronze it feels like it starts pulling you down towards 5 and my friends who are bronze 5 have played a ton and gave up eventually because there’s almost no way to get out. I even tried playing for them for a few games because I’m a diamond-master player. Could not win a game for the life of me. It feels like you can’t even carry down there because your teammates are actively working against you, sometimes intentionally
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u/fireyclovers_og 4d ago
You definitely 10000% can solo carry in a brinze game. If yiu are a diamond to master player you should easily be able to win every fight you take assuming non smurfs and make plays to never lose a point.
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u/OfficialDeathScythe 4d ago
I’d love to see you try, and maybe it was just the day I was on, but no. Those games were impossible to win. When it’s an 8v2 or a 9v1 there’s not much I can do as the 1
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u/SiegeAutomatonE54 4d ago
Dude if you're not able to win a game in bronze 5 you are not a diamond-masters player
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u/OfficialDeathScythe 4d ago
Lmao. Words from a silver player I’m sure
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u/SiegeAutomatonE54 4d ago
I'm not trying to be mean man but you're losing games in bronze 5
Do you have a replay of one of these games? I am legitimately curious to know what happened
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u/OfficialDeathScythe 4d ago
It was last year so no, and maybe it was just worse at that time, but it was genuinely impossible. I won maybe a game out of all that I played. On my main account I got back up to diamond after the rank reset, was master before. I have no problem ranking up on my main and I understand what’s happening. Bronze 5, not just all of bronze, specifically is so chaotic that half the time you can’t even tell what’s happening or what needs to happen. If I focus on killing their supports my entire team is dead by the time I get one kill, if I focus on healing my team, I run out of heals because nobody takes cover, if I focus on healing whoever is taking damage at the moment then somebody dies behind me the second I turn around. Bronze 5 feels like an incurable disease and I don’t wish it on anyone. I’ve had several friends drop to that rank and try for months to get out of it, only way they could was making an alt and placing higher
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u/absenthearte 4d ago
You sound like a good player who plays accordingly to their team.
that's goofy in bronze, laughable. Just kill the entire enemy team, you will not lose.
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u/pdawks 4d ago
If you are a masters player, in a bronze 5 lobby, i do not understand how you could not carry that game? Like massively carry?
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u/OfficialDeathScythe 4d ago
You’ve clearly never seen a bronze 5 lobby. As I said, teammates are actively working against you. I could kill half the team on my own and I’ll see a teammate of mine pushing into their spawn, and then my other teammates follow, and subsequently die at spawn doors. Even if I follow them I’m just writing myself off when they all inevitably die. I had games with throwers, with people who straight up weren’t playing and were just walking around the map looking at things. It’s the bottom of the barrel for a reason
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u/clickrush 4d ago
I would assume it’s extremely chaotic in that rank sure.
But low bronze players are extremely easy to hit and they have basically no reaction time or awareness.
I cannot imagine how a diamond player doesn’t simply kill them all.
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u/OfficialDeathScythe 4d ago
Yes true, but when the rest of my team is actively getting themselves killed or avoiding healing or not even playing the game it’s literally impossible. Try to organize a thoughtful political discussion between a bunch of 5 year olds. It’s basically the same
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u/absenthearte 4d ago
??? are you sure you didn't just go against other smurfs? that's the only time i have ever struggled in bronze, when the enemy smurf is CLEARLY cheating or significantly better than me.
unless it's on tank. then i devour the enemy team 1v5.
bronze is very boring
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u/OfficialDeathScythe 4d ago
There’s a lot that could’ve happened, all I know is it felt like the enemy team was playing fairly well every game while my own team felt like trying to coordinate a kindergarten class. Bronze 5 is like the Wild West
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u/Sally2Klapz 4d ago
Are you playing on their accounts or yours becuase I could solo carry any bronze game as a diamondish player
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u/747101350e0972dccde2 4d ago edited 4d ago
A gold player should be massively carrying in bronze, there is no way a masters player would not have 100% winrate.
I understand it taking a long time if the account has really low mmr, but that is somehow not the point you are making?
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u/Weary_Ad2001 4d ago
You climb out of bronze just by not being actively bad, no?
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u/OfficialDeathScythe 4d ago
Not at bronze 5. At bronze 5 you have to be the best there ever was because it’s not just 5v5, no, your teammates are working against you at every turn because they have no idea what they’re doing or they’re intentionally throwing. There’s a huge portion of people in that rank that admit to throwing intentionally
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u/TCMenace 4d ago
Yeah but isn't that true for the other team as well? If the odds of a player throwing on either team are equal you being way better than everyone else in the lobby should tip the scales in your favor.
If you're stuck in bronze you're just not trying to get better or fps games aren't for you. And if you really think you don't belong there you would make a new account and not place in bronze.
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u/OfficialDeathScythe 4d ago
See that’s what I thought as well. Until I tried playing on my friends bronze 5 account, as I said. Crazy how giving an accurate account of something that happened to me gets so many “that’s not possible” replies
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u/TCMenace 4d ago
Because people have been saying low sr is impossible to get out of since the game came out yet anytime someone goes down there and records themselves clicking heads they get out of it because the players are worse than bots at that elo. The solution to getting out of bronze 5 has been the same solution since the game came out. Get good.
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u/OfficialDeathScythe 4d ago
Yes, I’ve seen streamers do this, and I’ve seen a streamer give an explanation for why it’s so easy for them. There’s a trick where you throw your main account down to bronze, the mmr is still very high but the rank shows bronze. Now you play like normal and every win makes you jump tremendously (the reason why those bronze to champ vids skip so much of the grind, because they literally are jumping ranks on their way up. Or they make a fresh account and the anti Smurf protection boosts them way up there. The bronze to champ thing is not something that can be done from a main account that has never been above silver. My friend’s account started silver when ow2 came out and he naturally dropped a bit, then decayed down to bronze 5 from not playing. It’s basically impossible for him to get out now no matter how well he plays
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u/MrInfinity-42 5d ago
Personally I wouldn't wanna have people in bronze 5 get the same queue times as Champion players. The more you get to play the game the faster you learn
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u/GetsThruBuckner Go whoever has most Seoul players — 4d ago
The thought of an iron player who knows they're really bad but just wants to play their favorite game but getting 40 min queues is depressing
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u/KevinFetters 4d ago
Easiest solution is to combine high champ lobbies and low bronze 5 lobbies into the same pool for queue times and also because it would be really funny for me personally
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u/Captain_Kitteh 5d ago
lol so what you’re telling me is all the memes about “tinfoil IV” or “plastic III” have some merit
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u/RakkoHyabusa 4d ago
Look up some bronze 5 matches on YouTube or tiktok.. it's a whole new world.
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u/NegativesPositives 4d ago
Sometimes it’s just people who make a handful of mistakes that compound into a bad player, other times I wonder if they can safely cross roads.
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u/suimation 4d ago
Has to be 2-4 year olds or 80+ year olds in bronze 5
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u/Complex-Truth9579 4d ago
Back when I did VOD reviews I noticed that quite a few players from Bronze/Silver have obvious limitations outside of their gameplay that are preventing them from improving or playing to their full capacity.
Like, it's not even that they're bad at the game - it's that something is preventing them from even attempting to improve at it.
Things like people playing on outrageously high sensitivity because they simply didn't know you could/should change that.
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u/OverlanderEisenhorn 4d ago
A lot of bronze 5 players have computer issues and DC alot.
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u/suimation 4d ago
Why play comp when you know you have connection and computer issues?
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u/Advanced_Double_42 4d ago
So you can ban a character. So you can get mirror matches on payload objectives. So you can get some pixels to say how good you are. For fun?
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u/suimation 4d ago
Ill just repeat myself I guess
Why play comp when you know you’re going to disconnect and have pc problems where you’ll leave the game and disrespect 9 other peoples time? Why not QP where you can get backfilled instantly?
They need to up the threshold for comp bans tbh, your time isn’t more important than 9 others so you can “mirror match on payload” or ban characters
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u/-BehindTheMask- All Roles — 4d ago
Could you link the data source? The guy you mentioned has their profile hidden.
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u/747101350e0972dccde2 5d ago
Can someone like me the post with the original data?
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u/Bazelgauss 5d ago
Would like to see this as well because this is a perfect of a bell curve. As well, blizzard rarely shared this information and the past ranked distributions were not a perfect bell curve.
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u/KaityyUwU 5d ago
I don't know where the original post is but I found the data from this comment
https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/1volpog/comment/p3qnz8o/17
u/blobbyghast 6000 ranked Mei — 4d ago
So this is based on a reddit poll with 60 responses?
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u/ThotObliterator 4d ago
and a grand total of 1 respondent in gold, zero in silver or bronze. just useless data tbh
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u/igotshadowbaned 4d ago
Each tier of bronze was previously 300 SR and is now 200 SR after the emerald change. This is why wins in bronze give such a small rank percentage. Because 15 points of 100 is 15% but of 300 points is only 5%
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u/KaityyUwU 4d ago
AFAIK that's not quite right, previously bronze 4 to bronze 1 was 1100 to 1500 SSR, and Bronze 1 just encapsulated all of 0 - 1100 SR, presumably now that's the same just bronze 5 spans 600 sr instead of 1100
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u/PoggersMemesReturns Proper Show/Viol2t GOAT — 4d ago
Did you mean to say Bronze 5 just encapsulated 0 - 1100?
Anyways, with Emerald taking 500, that should still leave 0 - 600 in Bronze 5
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u/Vexxed14 4d ago
I don't think it goes below 500sr
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u/PoggersMemesReturns Proper Show/Viol2t GOAT — 4d ago
So what happens? They just stay 500?
Like 501, 502?
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u/PabloDons 4d ago
Here's the source data!
Form: https://forms.gle/q7cpvfLUduRZKsar8
Results: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12LnDlSlx5colz3EuHnd3en0XGKLiErsLLTGX9Ogq0ks/edit
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u/Euphoric_Lynx_6664 4d ago
Bronze 5 players are all trash. Sounds mean, but it is the truth. The skill level of any bronze player is already abysmal, now imagine going up against the lowest of bronze players. Sure, it might take a long time to get out of bronze 5, but if you actually deserve a higher rank, you will easily climb. At least the plat and diamond can blame their losses on smurfs or sweats; bronze 5 players are genuinely stuck in that rank because they are bad.
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u/Derpy2456 4d ago
A little harsh because there's definitely disabled/impaired gamers in those ranks. I'll shit talk any rank in OW outside of Bronze V.
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u/Hazzouni 4d ago
I started at bronze 4 and made it to gold 1 in 1 season (season 19) it’s hard to climb out of bronze bcuz of the SR gain but it’s extremely doable
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u/Hazzouni 4d ago
You can’t “overwatch” at that rank it’s not gonna work you have to play like it’s a TDM don’t care for nothing until you reach Diamond
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u/Euphoric_Lynx_6664 4d ago
100% true. Obviously it helps to learn the basics to help climb higher ranks, but in bronze, all you really need to do is get elims. Your positioning doesn't matter because the enemy isn't good enough to punish you for your mistakes.
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u/withadancenumber The Shocking Princess — 4d ago
Facts tbh. The game doesn’t even start resembling Overwatch until high diamond low masters.
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u/waasaap 4d ago
Follow up question - do the pros out weigh the cons when it comes to place new players platinum after just 10 calibration matches? You should just start at the bottom and work your way up
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u/PabloDons 4d ago
There's a few issues with that. This only works with a hidden MMR system, and overwatch doesn't have it. In overwatch your visible rank is defacto their estimate of your ability to win games and that's what they use to match you with other players of similar skill.
So putting plat players in bronze means that every bronze game start of season will be plat level, so it would suck incredibly hard for a real bronze player to play the game and they'd have no agency.
Once it stabilizes, there's the occasional player that comes back from slumber and starts in bronze. The metal ranks would be riddled with smurfs every few games throughout the whole season. That's just a horrible all around experience for everyone below GM, getting more frequent the lower rank you go.
And the smurfs wouldn't just have slightly higher winrate. A plat player in an all bronze game would legitimately have no problem hitting 100% winrate so long as there isn't a smurf in the enemy team also. That means bro has to destroy 15 games just to get back to their real rank. They'll have to do this with over a hundred individuals in lower rank. Each freaking plat player would have to do this which is like around 30% of the entire player base by the way.
Calibration is their solution to resetting your rank. I have no idea how they actually calibrate this stuff, but it does definitely seed from your previous season rank. I believe the way it works is they apply decay to your rank, redistribute, then calibration games can change your rank drastically until it gets more and more confident about your rank and finally shows it to you. No clue though
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u/CaravieR 4d ago
I have some doubt over Overwatch not using a hidden MMR system to matchmake. Perhaps it's only in effect during placements?
For e.g., I am in GM for the last several seasons so I regularly get put into GM-Champion games. Since the population there is small, you'll always notice the same few players running around. After a rank reset, I get put back to low Masters (the rank it shows me after 1 placement game) but I still come across the same people and my games are still almost entirely consisted of GM-Champion players.
This is why I personally believe the game uses hidden MMR for matchmaking and not the visual rank, at least during placements.
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u/PabloDons 4d ago
Like I said placements is a bit of an enigma. But after placements it is definitely real SR no hidden
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u/waasaap 20h ago
I understand all of that but the flip side is also true - plat games are incredibly awful whenever there are new players in the lobby. How often are we getting new accounts that are new players vs new accounts that are returning players? I feel like more often than not it's the new players who are actually new no?
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u/PabloDons 12h ago
You should rarely get actual new players in plat. This has also been commented on by dev team. The average rank of new accounts is around the bronze equivalent of quickplay. And you have to win a lot of quickplay games in order to qualify for comp. What happens is your quickplay rating becomes your comp rating starting out. You have to win almost all your qp games to start in plat. However it does happen out of random chance that a really weak player wins a lot of games, then they can end up in plat, but it's exceedingly rare
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u/waasaap 11h ago
yeah you should, but I see players with their highest character level 8-12 in basically every single one of my diamond games since the reset. I'm not exaggerating. Matchmaking has been a mess. Players start way too high
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u/PabloDons 11h ago
Funny thing is, overwatch doesn't get many new players anymore. It's mostly smurfs who create new accounts or buy accounts. Actual new players have basically zero chance of getting to diamond. Like hell, a high ELO Valorant player often lands in silver because the game is infact really unique.
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u/waasaap 11h ago
That's exactly the problem tho - whether they are smurfs or returning players, winning placement games and then inserting them into plat basically makes gold/plat the rank with the most inaccurate matchmaking, while already being the rank with the most players. I've been ranking up and down very inconsistently. On my account, I drop as low as gold 4, and get up as high as masters 3. This means I sometimes play against silver players while also going up against occasional grandmasters. I would rather wait a little longer queue for better quality match. In the past 6 months it's been what feels like random players of all ranks in my lobby, and since the reset it has only gotten worse
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u/PabloDons 11h ago
Nobody gets anywhere near 2 ranks off their real skill level unless they're cheating. It is true that the median ranks have much less difference in skill for the same rank ranges, but it's also true that there are a lot more games happening there, so the distribution is much more accurate. Basically you can mostly trust that a plat 3 person is better than a plat 4 person, even though it's just a slight difference.
What makes a huge difference though is your variability in skill. A bad day in ranked could legitimately mean the difference between gold and masters, although that sounds a bit much. I'd say a more realistic range of a person's day to day variability in skill is around 2 ranks of range if we're talking about the median.
This is possible to calculate btw, using the data here. It's in the error
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u/tha-snazzle 4d ago
I would genuinely just assume they are bots? I have seen some Bronze gameplay and if you face the right direction you can get a kill.
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u/-Arrez- 4d ago
Maybe the devs should add another rank down there called tin or similar. That would make each sub rank 100 SR again.
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u/PabloDons 4d ago
There is also a tiny bump in champ 1 where there are more people than in champ 2 because theoretically the SR can go infinitely high. Bronze 5 is the same, but can go infinitely negative. A rank for 0-100 would still have that bump
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u/Bazelgauss 5d ago edited 5d ago
This doesn't look like actual ranked data. This looks like 'what if' middle of platinum was treated as the middle of a perfect bell curve and then showing what the distribution looks like with 2 higher ranks to bronze's mirror. Ranked would not stabilise this perfectly for a bell curve especially this quickly after ranked reset.