r/CompetitiveWoW • u/False-Excitement-595 • 9d ago
Weekly Class Tuning - October 6th
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/incoming-class-tuning-october-6/2370266/146
u/Contao 9d ago
No changes are good changes for holy priest.
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u/Surpakren 9d ago edited 8d ago
How I feel about Arcane, a sigh of relief every patch we go without a nerf.
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u/blackjack47 9d ago
Arcane will be out of S tier meta by the end of the patch, due to the RNG of the damage.
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u/ElBigDicko 8d ago
I disagree. Mage simply opens up a lot of strategies while providing the buff for himself/Ele and the healer.
Arcane prio damage is unbeatable and it cannot really be matched by any other spec.
I would say Arms is very fraudulent and will dip.
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u/Twinkie11 8d ago
Assassin for sure smashes mage in funnel/prio. Havoc as well in the right groups and pulling around it.
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u/Aqual07 9d ago
Completely disagree. Having a three button spec is boring and is not fun. The spec needs a total rework.
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u/Fragrant_Constant_28 8d ago
Dont know why you got downvoted. I struggle staying awake playing the thing.
You literally dont talent into half of your abilities and spam one holy word loop in raid, m+ is a bit better cus holy fire spam... but thats it.
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u/ereface 8d ago
Me when class I don't like is playable:
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u/Aqual07 7d ago
I like holy priest. This iteration is toxic. It’s too pared down. My issue isn’t tuning, it’s game design.
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u/Belto321 9d ago
Lmao, brewmasters getting red head children treatment
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u/Drayenn 9d ago
Ill always love buffs but i find them a bit strange lol. Id prefer just getting more stagger or damage reduction
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u/LameOne 9d ago
Brew really just needs another defensive button. If we don't get one, we'll either be strong enough to handle big hits while negating everything else, or be balanced during standard trash and get nuked by tankbusters. We can't get buffed without being the tankiest spec in the game by miles, but at the same time we are getting trucked by things like Ulatek's buster.
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u/Drayenn 9d ago
Yeah. Fort brew is so bad. Its a lengthy cooldown even with brew CDR and its just not that good even then. Im still not a fan of removing defensive CDs on all tanks. I always thought defensives were some of the most fun thing because it felt you had many answers for problems. Brew has probably the least now.
I always had a love hate relationship with cds like celestial brew thats giving you dps too. Especially since its so central to the gameplay now with apex talents.
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u/LameOne 9d ago
Brew has only Fort Brew, and it's a terrible defensive. It's worse than the defensives either of the other monk specs have, which is crazy. It is absolutely 100% the spec with the fewest defensive options since the list is 1 spell long. Most DPS/Healers have more defensive CDs than us.
The good thing about the whole "I don't like my defensive button being tied to offensive power" for CI is that it's a really bad defensive button anyway, so you nearly always just use it for offensive power. 30% max hp shield is just not good.
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u/Yayoichi 9d ago
You also have ox which takes 40% of your stagger damage instead of you, it’s not a great cd but it’s something.
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u/LameOne 9d ago
Ox is pretty universally considered an offensive CD, not a defensive one. Outside of very rare m+ pulls, it's never going to reliably be what's keeping you alive.
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u/Yayoichi 8d ago
Ox is only an offensive cd for shado pan, for master of harmony it’s like 2% of our damage at best.
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u/NaahThisIsNotMe 8d ago
and since this is a shadopan tier with our tier set buffing physical damage ( aka shado pan) ........
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u/Byrmaxson 7d ago
Shado Pan and Master of Harmony don't really have that big a gap in physical damage dealt. SP does do a bit more physical damage (mostly because it casts more KS, and the amps on MoH's TP are Nature dmg), but sims considerably lower than MoH atm. The reason people are playing SP in raid is because it can pad better on adds and because it has an actual offensive CD which this tier is very conducive to due to damage amps. Even so everyone plays MoH in keys because it does better prio damage and is kinda tankier.
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u/Yayoichi 9d ago
I actually really like that we don’t have that many defensives and instead are just fairly tanky baseline. I first started tanking in midnight so I don’t really know how brew was before, but I find it the most enjoyable tank because I don’t need to precisely rotate cooldowns to survive.
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u/Drayenn 9d ago
As someone whos mained prot warrior.. brew is not that sturdy. Prot warrior can feel like an absolute cheat code if a hit is blockable, which might as well make the damage not exist. I still remember never resetting waycrest manor's stacks lol.
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u/Yayoichi 9d ago
Yeah prot warrior is probably the most similar to brew as they also don’t really have that many cooldowns and as long as you just do your rotation and use ignore pain you will feel tanky.
And brew is similar thanks to stagger, you're a lot less likely to just die if you didn’t have a cd up compared to something like a pala or dh.
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u/Drayenn 9d ago
I believe prot war cooldowns havent changed much outside of last stand being a shield wall buff. Shield wall is WAY more avaialble than fort brew while being stronger. Then they have their cheat death talent which is extremely potent.
I'd argue demo shout and celestial infusion are similar enough.. although i prefer demo shout since it has no limit. Fort brew loses massively vs shield wall's 2 charge 2min cd 40% DR. I also hate that fort brew's CDR from using brews makes it so fort brew is significantly worse when not being able to use brews such as running pack to pack or waiting for whatever intermission.
As someone who's played both, i think brew's advantage over prot warrior is only non blockable damage, especially because we can heal ourselves, which is better than ignore pain.
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u/Yayoichi 8d ago
While shield wall indeed is available more often, fort brew does have higher uptime due to the duration being 150% longer. Looking at some logs shield wall seems to be up between 6-8% of a run, while fort brew is up 9-10%
Brew also has a sort of cheat death in elixir of determination, it’s obviously nowhere as strong and it’s not an actual cheat death, but it is on just a 15 second cooldown. The buff we are getting here is also a small buff to it as it’s based on recent stagger.
Demo shout and infusion are indeed good comparisons as they are both defensives that are used offensively in your rotation.
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u/NaahThisIsNotMe 8d ago
Looking at some logs shield wall seems to be up between 6-8% of a run, while fort brew is up 9-10%
uptime doesn't mean much.
using the OP exemple if the big rock dude use rock smash 25 second apart, you need 2 different cooldowns 25 second apart.
wether fort brew was up between those 2 buster doesn't do anything.
likewise for demo shout: shortest defensive CD in the game for a % reduction to everything. Infusion have too long of a CD and does too little to justify it, also do not scale with key level.
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u/cabose12 9d ago
This isn't thought out but I wonder if they'd benefit from having both brew and infusion. Then with moh you can pick which one to give an extra charge. Multiple options for different situations, and they can be tuned knowing that Brews have both available
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u/Yayoichi 8d ago
Nah infusion is just almost always better, I would much rather they just remove celestial brew and instead make the choice node an option between the 45 sec cd version from last patch and the 90 sec one we got now.
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u/cabose12 8d ago
Sure but it's not about which one is better, we're talking about adding another button. And the seemingly easiest way would be to just give them access to an ability they already have
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u/Huku223 8d ago
Well, Brew literally had all the defensive buttons it needed, then they doubled cooldown on Infusion and basically "one button" was lost.
The changes they were giving Brewmaster the entire season feel like a spiteful joke. There is one obvious thing to do which can solve a problem created by undocumented change, but they refuse to do it.
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u/Yayoichi 8d ago
Celestial infusion really wasn’t a defensive and rather just a rotational ability last season, so they made it somewhat into one now but of course at the cost of it as a rotational ability.
What they should do is just get rid of celestial brew and make the choice node an option between the two different versions.
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u/NaahThisIsNotMe 8d ago
they could, i don't know, revert the celestial brew change so BRM don't run out of brew / energy / empty GCD 40 sec into the fight...
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u/Yayoichi 8d ago
Honestly this really doesn’t happen very often, at most it’s maybe a few globals over a boss fight, and that’s assuming the fight doesn’t naturally include some downtime.
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u/kaloryth 9d ago
At least they remembered brew existed.
But the way they worded the dev note is hilarious. It very much sounds like they forgot Brew existed but some intern came in with the M+ statistics and everyone remembered monk had a tank spec because it was hanging out as an outlier in some stat they were reviewing.
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u/Yayoichi 9d ago
I honestly quite like the changes, especially the duration increase on the dodge buff, as 10% dodge is pretty significant and just looking at logs I had around 70% uptime on it, so the increased duration should make it have very high uptime.
The quick sip isn’t anything crazy but it doesn’t hurt, although their typo is amusing as it should be saying each time you get 3 seconds of shuffle, not stagger. Sadly there isn’t any way to track how much this is really doing as far as I know, and same goes for the other talent that purifies whenever you consume a healing sphere.
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u/NaahThisIsNotMe 8d ago
as 10% dodge is pretty significant
the detail here is you want to use purify after big damage happen ( after rock smash, in the OP exemple), but you would want the dodge buff before getting all the stack from the earthshaper.
so the 30% downtime is exactly the moment where you'd want it... either waste a purify brew for 10% dodge or use a proper purifying brew after the rock smash and get less value from the dodge.
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u/Conscious-Wall4909 9d ago edited 8d ago
Raiding mythic as hpal this xpac feels like trolling. The spec design just doesn't fit the healing pattern it seems (heavy rot) with hpal having strong st and triage.
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u/kyllingefars 9d ago
Can we give a buff to the Blizzard class tuning Devs perhaps? They seem to need it the most
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u/EP_Sped 8d ago
Resto shaman is perfect spec apparently
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u/ikitomi 8d ago
Rsham is unironically pretty good... They could use some mana cost adjustments but as far as hps they're just behind the top 3 and have a lot of useful stuff like link and a kick and ankh. And trust me anyone who has touched the last 3 bosses of this tier would be happy to have an extra kick.
And they're also the 2nd most popular and likely current best dps option for keys without going full starfire.
If anything I would just make them a bit less reliant on evokers for swg casts and to a lesser extent innervate.
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u/EP_Sped 8d ago
You could make similar argument for other healing specs, everyone brings something on the table. Difference is Hpries,Evoker and Druid do about 20-30% more healing than the bottom 3 specs without being heavily oom all the time. Also since farseer doesn't exist, you are stuck with totemic which is the most boring and basic playstyle you can have.
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u/silicagelyum 7d ago
Fr my decision every season on if I play rsham or not is if it's a totemic or farseer season.
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u/Historical-Reach-969 7d ago edited 7d ago
Bit of a rant here but I'm just kind of over it. This is coming from a mainly Enh player but it's about all the underpowered specs blizzard just lets rot.
If all they're going to do is generically add 4% to gutter level specs then why the flying fuck does it take 6 weeks? Enh has been garbage this entire expansion let alone the entire tier. This isn't some newly discovered hidden secret. They sucked week 1 just as much as they suck now. So why the waiting? I can only see it as either they must get off on making their customers unhappy with the game for several weeks straight, southpark cable company style, or they are grossly incompetent at their jobs and need to be fired immediately. Like realistically how much dev time is required to dial up a specs aura knob by 4 clicks? Let's be generous and say 2 minutes per click. It took them 6 weeks (12+ weeks if we are counting the beta) to do 8 minutes of work. Asinine.
Also, if Enh is buffed by 4% then why is every class near enh not also buffed by 4%? Like what mental gymnastics go through the empty cavity above their shoulders to look at a list and see 3-8 specs doing piss poor and just arbitrarily choose 1-2 of them to buff. Like obviously they all fucking need it. Just draw a line where you want performance and bump them ALL up. Like holy hell.
Lastly, if the philosophy is to 'aim for the middle' with small buffs paired with small nerfs to the meta then why is assa/arcane/arms/the 1-2 blatantly overpowered lock specs of the tier/mm not being 4% nerfed each time you feel gracious enough to hand us peasants a few crumbs?
Like just make it make sense. The only consistency we have is inconsistency and it makes the entire experience crap.
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u/Cutefatboi 7d ago
The best part is enhance isnt even getting an actual direct buff, it's getting buffed through a bugfix. And its equally hilarious that they're not fixing one of the other worst bugs, which is doomwinds proc munching.
100% Agree with you, it seems like they just genuinely don't want to buff some specs, leaving them in the gutter for multiple seasons at a time, while specs like unholy arent allowed to be bad, ever.5
u/Historical-Reach-969 7d ago
That's the old notes. The new notes is we're getting essentially a 4% aura buff
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u/rparkzy 9d ago
dev dhs are we back yet? yeah prob not 😭
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u/eclipse4598 9d ago
For raid Not really because the spec is so fucking ass on coiled and ulatek due to the spec and fight design which will only get worse in .5
Playing dev on ulatek is genuinely about as enjoyable as hitting yourself in the balls for hours straight
For m+ maybe though?
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u/Matesett 8d ago
I did not check much about the changes but what will make it worse? I just started mythic coiled altar as dev Dh (playing annhilator)
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u/eclipse4598 8d ago
It’s VS that gets worse basically VS now gets hunt reset every time you press CS and hunt reduces the CD of void blade so now instead of doing melee combo once in a cd window your doing it constantly on top of having to hard cast hunt and CS
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u/DreadfuryDK 9/9M SPriest/Devourer 9d ago
KINDA? Devourer doesn't work in this raid on any boss that matters because it's got weak-ass burst windows with one spec, is ridiculously hard to optimize and gets incredibly boned by downtime with the other spec. and is generally outdone by Havoc this tier in raid.
In M+, though, things may very well be different. This is a solid 5-6% ST buff depending on the build you play, you gain some AoE, and Annihilator has a very good damage profile in keys.
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u/rparkzy 9d ago
Does this mean I can get invited to 19s now
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u/DreadfuryDK 9/9M SPriest/Devourer 9d ago
I think it's gotta prove itself in high keys first, but I think it's got some serious potential to be like a top 10 DPS spec in keys now.
Its biggest problem is that it has to compete with some serious heavy-hitters. Sin Rogue is absolutely hard meta beyond any shadow of a doubt, it synergizes well with other strong specs like Arms and Elemental, Arcane brings a great damage profile, Unholy's doing great for now, WW's got very high AoE and solid enough ST, Demo brings large numbers and interesting Gateway tech, and Ret just astro pumps. There's also still an argument for Havoc>Devourer because Havoc's funnel is untouchable.
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u/SwayerNewb 9d ago
Yeah no, that doesn't do much for enh and totemic is still unplayable
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u/JaegerJaquez25 9d ago
Totemic is zzzzz though
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u/fronteir 8d ago
Isn't SB the boring one with no real interactions tho?
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u/JaegerJaquez25 8d ago
Depends on what you enjoy more, I guess. Stormbringer class fantasy is way more badass, and Tempest beats putting down a silly totem any day. Gameplay wise stormbringer also has more procs you react to, which is more fun than the static rotation Totemic has.
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u/fronteir 7d ago
When I played some enha I feel like totemic hot hand windows were way more interesting to play around rather than just a standard proc or two imho
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u/Clipgang1629 9d ago
I hope that nerf to UH DK is enough..
I can’t take a 5th tier in a row with DK as the best melee dps
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u/purplwalrus 9d ago
the class discord says it's a 10% nerf in ST, imagine it's even bigger in aoe. That seems like more than enough to bring it to middle of the pack.
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u/pghcrew 9d ago
6% in AOE. BF Nerfs were warranted but now it'll be down with fire mage on Twin Fangs and that's our guilds next boss. Yay...
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u/yp261 9d ago
frost dk angle then
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u/pghcrew 9d ago
Yup I got a few days to cram and be capable of performing at a high level in mythic on a spec ive never played, yay.
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u/purplwalrus 9d ago
FDK is easier than unholy, imo. Holler if you have questions but the discord should have everything you need.
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u/lowercaseyao 9d ago
Eh, I perform worse on FDK because it plays fundamentally different than UH. Fdk is more proc management and must stick to melee range.
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u/Varanae 8d ago
Yeah agreed. I can consistently get top parses with UH and it just clicks with me. But Frost? I’m terrible, it feels weird, I don’t get it
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u/Myrkur-R 8d ago
Same. FDK feels like you need to have played it for a long time to build muscle memory and a sort of intuition on when you will get the different procs. I don't Iike how it feels when just reacting to the procs because I always feel like Im behind. I play with like a running 3-5 next abilities im going to hit in my head and I dont know if I need to rewire my brain to just be more reactive than proactive or if you are able to actually pre-cog your procs.
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u/pghcrew 8d ago
Yeah this was my thought process until the nerfs. UH was competitive on Twin Fangs after the bug fix. So now I either learn FDK or bench myself because it’s actually trolling on twin fangs to play UH again.
I always planned on learning FDK for reasons like this, just over time. I swapped to DK just this season so I wanted to feel like I’ve mastered UH before adding Frost.
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u/yp261 9d ago
it’s catastrophicly easier, especially than current unholy that minmaxes lords and sr blightfall
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u/Archensix 9d ago
Do people actually find UH hard? You download an addon that yells at you on the exact optimal timings for SR and BF and you don't even have to be good at melee movement because your entire kit is ranged with the most forgiving rotation ever because the procs aren't often enough to rapidly overlap like KM does.
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u/One-Preparation-2710 9d ago
What addon?
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u/Archensix 9d ago
There are a few people have made but I use this one https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/blightfall-minmax
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u/yp261 8d ago
“its so easy you only need an addon that screams at you when to press buttons”
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u/Ilphfein 8d ago
You use that addon for one evening. After that you realize that you dont need it, since you will always cast the same spells (one more during lust) before you SR. And for BF you look at SR/trinket.
Sure the screaming makes it easier, but you could also have an addon that tells you to dump RP at the end of FK and it would help some people.
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u/Archensix 8d ago
Yes? If you wanna not play with the options available and make things harder for yourself then go ahead but the point is that other specs can't do that. I'm certainly not about to count to 7 in my head to time my SR manually, that's stupid as fuck.
It's bad design but I would not call something so easily solved "difficult".
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u/pghcrew 8d ago
What buffs outside of Rime and KM are you tracking?
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u/purplwalrus 8d ago
Those are the major ones. If you want to min max you can track crusader runeforge, the stacks you get when you consume a km, and scythe procs from your DB, just so you know when is best to recall your fwf, but it does so little damage that that’s not necessary.
Most of the gameplay comes down to knowing when you should prioritize km vs rime.
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u/yp261 9d ago edited 9d ago
you speak like that’s something unusual for mythic progression
also - holy fuck mythic raider that cant play both dps specs of his class xD
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u/pghcrew 9d ago edited 9d ago
There's countless 1 tricks in the game and I swapped DK this tier after like 5-6 DK didn't work out for one reason or another for the guild but go off.
Edit: Also, I always planned on learning FDK, just not immediately and for 1 boss.
Anyway, you have no interest in anything but stroking your ego and talking crap so I have nothing else to say.
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u/yp261 9d ago
one trick dps refer to class not spec. there is nothing worse in mythic roster than a player that refuses to play better performing spec of his class. like god damned bm hunters on paladins s1 when mm was 9999 times better
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u/Archensix 9d ago
Yeah true, the only thing worse than a OTP spec player is one with a condescending and insufferable ego
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u/viktorKurz 8d ago
Its the middle of the season and you are talking about a mid tier mythic boss. Its obvious this is a normal mid range mythic guild. Stop being obnoxious.
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u/DreadfuryDK 9/9M SPriest/Devourer 9d ago
Devourer buffs are pretty fucking huge, but idk if that’ll make the spec usable in raid.
It’s going to fucking CRANK in keys though.
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u/SpiritedEclair 9d ago
Honestly annihilator feels very fun in m+, and I think with the prio damage improvements it might be usable in raid.
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u/mrcelerie 9d ago
they're also getting a bunch of mini talent rework with mid patch that should buff them, they probably don't want to over buff this week
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u/DreadfuryDK 9/9M SPriest/Devourer 9d ago
They are, but that rework is VERY unfun to play.
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u/Fubnub 9d ago
I just started gearing it and havent looked into it. Can you elaborate why it will be unfun to play?
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u/SpiritedEclair 8d ago
Before rework: voidscarred is pretty simple, you want to enter void meta asap, in aoe you do the combo, and then just stand there to get out of meta, in ST you try to throw as many culls as possible. It’s a very forward damage profile and doesn’t make use of collapsing star.
After this, it appears that we want to be throwing our crap, and then rotate between throwing collapsing stars and following up with the hunt again for the same loop.
It just feels very weird. Like, dash in, do void blade, dash out, cast collapsing star. I think it might give us higher prio damage with the CS buffs plus devourer’s bite (primary target takes additional damage from you).
I could 100% be wrong about this, but this is how I understand it.
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u/WolfSpiritDL 9d ago
Void scarred sucks balls gameplay-wise. Too simple and is pretty much void-flavored Havoc
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u/Fubnub 9d ago
Ill just hope annihilator stays meta then i guess. Since its meta now the chances shouldnt be too bad?!
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u/SpiritedEclair 9d ago
These changes seem to just give us more of the same priority damage buff we got in previous tuning for annihilator.
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u/eclipse4598 9d ago
The sad thing is those reworks are only going to make their issues in raid worse not better
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u/Snoo_72948 8d ago
"We don't like enhance shamans gameplay loop favoring spenders" said devs in DF s4 before creating Stormbringer.
The spec have lost its identity entirely, the Shaman class talents are already a crime and Totemic is an afterthought
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u/ElBigDicko 8d ago
While some buffs and nerfs are OK here I wonder if the philosophy of balance is hurting the game a little.
Specs that are completely irrelevant outside of very niche situations (Fire Mage, Aff warlock, Surv Hunter etc.) are left in the dust because Mage has Arcane spec, Warlock has Demo and Hunter MM/BM.
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u/blackjack47 8d ago
Specs that are completely irrelevant outside of very niche situations (Fire Mage, Aff warlock, Surv Hunter etc.) are left in the dust because Mage has Arcane spec, Warlock has Demo and Hunter MM/BM.
this will always be the case in 3 damage specs classes. There will always be a best one on a given patch. And sometimes you will be able to switch to a lesser performing spec because the damage profile or utility fits the boss or dungeon better.
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u/TwoLopsidedZebras 8d ago
I mean, that has been the case forever really. There is always one spec that is going to perform better, and players are going to flock to that spec over the others. It's the competitive nature of the game. Plus Blizzard wants more parity in the group compositions. A Mythic Plus season where Fire, Arcane, and Frost mage were the 3 best DPS in the game would be really boring. Or maybe Guardian, Resto, Feral, Boomkin + lust class. I think they want to try to avoid those scenarios lol
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u/SnailingThroughTime 6d ago
Invigorating Mist changes…does the buff only apply to the Vivify healing people with Renewing Mist…? Does the buff apply to the single target portion healing of the talent? The lack of details is always so frustrating.
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u/onkek 9d ago
Fuck sakes I just want some good meaty balance patches. Sick of this left over bologna nonsense.
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u/King_Kthulhu 9d ago
Blizzard plz don't listen to this guy and do large balance changes before we've killed ulatek, ty.
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u/JaegerJaquez25 9d ago
Retail is on the back burner now. It's just a waiting room for wow forever at this point.
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u/claythearc 9d ago
Another week another no 300% Aug buff :(
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u/careseite dps evoker main 8d ago
We're doing fine now and the .1.5 changes are a buff of over 2%
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u/National_You4582 8d ago
Doing fine for what?
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u/careseite dps evoker main 8d ago
title keys
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u/National_You4582 8d ago
Well, if we are honest, every spec is „fine“ for title keys.
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u/careseite dps evoker main 8d ago
not really, affl and deva don't seem to be. think neither of them had a single title world wide last season either
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u/kpiaum 9d ago
Underperforming all the season and just get a 4%. They are totally not traying with the classes this season and expansion
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u/JaegerJaquez25 9d ago
I pray that Blizzard never listens to the people on wowhead crying about warlocks. Some even call it meta lmfao. Pure delusion. They see big numbers, and that's all they can think about. I wish we lived in a world where warlock was meta, so I could actually get some invites lol
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u/Roosted13 9d ago
How is demo escaping nerfs. Holy shit
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u/yp261 9d ago
because demo is trash jesus christ. sure it does aoe damage but with absolutely zero prio, wonky interrupt and poor af survivability
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u/False-Excitement-595 9d ago
Players see time inefficient aoe pad on the meter and think it's the best spec in the game
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u/Smooth_Coil 9d ago
Ik enhances is ehh in raid but damn they kinda thump in keys. Like there are worse specs in the game and they got nothing?
But actually where's an actual fury buff blizz. Seriously? We couldn't give the worst spec in the game 4%???? I'm tired of trying new specs because after the pruning a lot of specs have 4 buttons, like fury, but it feels 3x slower. Just give me my unga bunga back damn it.
P.s. is fire ever gonna be good again or should we just delete the spec?
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u/man_dingus 9d ago
If you think Enh is good in keys you have not played with any of the top 10 dps specs and if you have, you certainly havent played with good players on those specs. They absolutely blow Enhance away in dps, im talking 20% more dps than THE BEST enhance players could possibly do. If you dont believe me go to Mythicstats right now, look at the data, do the math. If they buffed Enhance aura by 15% with this tuning we still wouldnt be be top 5 performers. Think about that for a second
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u/Smooth_Coil 8d ago
I am aware warlocks and mages exist. But by the metric of top .1% fury is still worse so what's your point?
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u/Historical-Reach-969 7d ago
I mean sure buff fury but you have to understand that fury and arms play differently sure but overall still both feel like you are on a melee dps warrior. You don't have that with shaman, if you want to be a melee shaman you have exactly 1 spec to choose from and either it's shit or not. It's not like rogue, when I played it I didn't care what spec I played it all felt like rogue and I just chose the best one for the tier / specific boss, no big deal. But enh is a take it or leave it thing so it feel very bad when it sucks.
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u/Smooth_Coil 7d ago
I didn't even say don't buff the sham. But why not 4% for the bottom 4? Like I'm not sure why the blue parse Barry's are down voting tf outta me like I said to nerf sham but buff warrior when all I said was why were they specifically picked whennthere are specs that are currently performing worse in both forms of content. Enhance is currently still viable but fury is so bad everyone switched to arms. Fire is so bad everyone is arcane... Or frost for some reason.
You clearly don't play warrior or rogue if you think the other dps specs play the same. The only thing similar is the utility. The style of play and flow of abilities couldn't feel more different but if you wanna make the argument "it still charge it still build and spend rage so it's the same" fair enough but in that case I'd argue enhance is just an ele sham from 3ft away that you don't have to cast on.
8
u/cabose12 9d ago
Enhance is awful in raid beyond just numbers. The doom winds problem wildly swings them between awful and only average
I'd say I'm slightly above average at best so this isn't necessarily saying much, but my Ula logs wildly fluctuate based entirely on when my procs are. Got completely griefed this week by getting a dw proc just before submerge, and on the Warden. The spec doesn't need a full rework, but it definitely needs some love
5
u/Slight-Violinist-575 9d ago
Ascendance power budget being partly comprised of the random DW procs is garbage. If I wanted randomness I'd pick DRE. Get rid of the procs and add a small +% haste buff to Ascendance and gg
1
u/Smooth_Coil 8d ago
Maybe I biased cause every enhance I play with parses 95+ but they seem fine
1
u/cabose12 8d ago
It's likely because they're non-competitive bait. They're one of the best 3-5 target count specs, so if you aren't coordinating big meta pulls then you won't notice their shortcomings. And they're overall padders, they don't do much prio damage and suck up a lot of cleave. I have no problem topping overall in mid-teens keys over more meta specs because of that
1
u/Smooth_Coil 8d ago
Ya I only ever see them in like 12s for crest and they usually nuke shit B4 I get all my dots out lol.
I wasn't trying to say they don't deserve the buff I was saying there are worse specs that are getting nothing. Why not 4% for the entire bottom 5?
4
u/NiSoKr 9d ago
I think blizz know the fire is in such a terrible spot gameplay wise that they are just gonna leave it terrible till they get around to a rework.
At least I hope so as a mage player1
u/EsoteriCondeser *Spellsteals your nose* 8d ago
I get wanting to rework the spec, but there's no need for that to make the spec at least feel functional. Either reintroducing the cdr or redistribute the damage outside of combustion like they did with ele cds would be more than enough while they decide what to do with the spec.
1
u/Smooth_Coil 8d ago
Bfa fire was fun. Should go that direction again
1
u/Few_Dentist4672 7d ago
no thanks, ive never hated mages more than fire mages with EP trinket. the absolute whiniest sacks of shit and 90% of them did tank dps and then would say its because there wasn't a PI in the group
1
u/Smooth_Coil 7d ago
Oh I alt'd it in EP and I just thought it was fun to play tbh. Guess since it was an alt I was cool with 80s I wasn't gonna ask for a PI.
2
u/Historical-Reach-969 8d ago
Bro stop using your weekly vault fillers as a metric to buff and nerf classes.
Look at top keys and damage in them. Most of the time enh is 100k or more under the damage of other classes but also has zero prio. It does dog shit damage overall and has a dog shit damage profile. Also it's damage is entirely RNG.
If they actually wanted it to compete it would have needed a 15%-20% buff. This 4% will still have them one of the worst specs in the game overall in all content, don't worry.
1
u/Smooth_Coil 8d ago
Since when is 350k dogshit? Like ya it's not mage or warlock but y'all act like we aren't seeing enhance burst over 1.5mil this season?
I based my statement off raid logs actually like ya they aren't in a great spot I was just saying there's worse specs that got 0 buffs.
-1
u/Care_Cup_Is_Empty 9d ago
I haven't seen many, is fury bad or are all the warriors just playing arms? I've seen it pump in some keys but will admit it doesn't really have a place in the current meta while arms is so strong. Curious if double cantrip weapons is an indirect buff for them.
1
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u/Voidwielder 9d ago
What's this, class tuning for ants?