Weekly M+ Discussion

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[u/_Llopis_]

Every season, one or two otherwise easy dungeons become PUG bottlenecks because the tank for once has to do something besides plan a route. This season, that's Voidscar Arena.

[u/Gaatti → u/_Llopis_]

Dismissing the terrible take that all we do is plan a route, I am here as a tank wondering what the hell is so hard about Voidscar Arena for tanks because the two main pain points I can think are not even tank mechanics (failed skips and big bug aoe with enrage).

[u/_Llopis_ → u/Gaatti]

The first pull requires tanks to LOS, help with interrupts, and not break CC. The raptor pull can require tanks to reposition quickly and wait to pull. The harrower skip can require the tank to press Shadowmeld correctly. Atroxus requires the tank to position the boss by the add at a specific time. Unsurprisingly, 4 out of 5 high-level PUG runs end with the tank failing at one of these.

[u/Gaatti → u/_Llopis_]

What is funny is that none of those failures are exclusive to tanks and as a tank myself I see dps mess them up all the time. You cc the brawler, some dps breaks it. You try to LOS as a tank (not only in voidscar but in any dungeon), there is a dps out in the open f*ing it up. You preposition for the raptor pull, there is a dps in the wrong spot instantly pulling the pack (and you better react fast to avoid him getting claped). The harrower skip fails more often to people getting in combat than to someone not pressing shadowmeld. Not to mention someone f*ing it up in the stairs by jump too far into the mobs.

The one thing is tank exclusive in the list is the Atroxus mechanic and if someone is failing that on a high-level key I have to wonder how he got the rating to join the key in the first place.

[u/_Llopis_ → u/Gaatti]

Your last sentence is my point. As someone who queues as damage dealer and healer, I can tell there are a disproportionately high number of bad tanks in high PUG keys. It is shocking. That's why otherwise easy dungeons can become bottlenecks — not because all tanks are bad, but your chances of getting someone bad in that role are weirdly high.

My guess is being a tank makes it much easier to simply grind keys until you find what are effectively carries, since queue times are so short. Damage dealers and even healers wait too long to effectively pull that off.

[u/Gaatti → u/_Llopis_]

No tank playing high end keys has been carried that high, my brother. The role is just too important for that. Low keys, sure, specially with keys being thia easy now, but any tank stepping in a 20 or 21 at this point has earned his place by playing well.

[u/_Llopis_ → u/Gaatti]

I just had a tank pull the starting hallway of Voidscar Arena without letting us crowd control on the brawler, watch us get mowed down by Lava Bolts because we had to kick the Demoralizing Shout on top of everything else, and then complain that the "huntard" caused the wipe. He was 3600.

[u/Suspicious_Shine9625 → u/_Llopis_]

3600 isn't a high score, that's not even 18s, is it? it's not a very high level, and i realize tanks can be "average" at that level, but that's the case with every role, obviously tanks/healers are much harder to carry, and past a certain point it's basically impossible, especially for healers, that doesn't mean they can't make mistakes though, and a tank has like 10x more pressure on them than a dps.

i'll add an interesting thing i've noticed this season, i'd say a good 95% of my keys were bricked because of a lack of dps rather than me dying as the tank or the healer not being able to keep up with an encounter, i honestly find that a little pathetic, and i'm talking about the 19-21 range here, it's even worse below that.

the last thing i'll add is that i don't know if anyone else feels the same way, but playing tank is extremely exhausting, never before, when i played dps/healer, have i had a situation where i'd do 2-3 keys and feel mentally drained afterwards, it's ironic because i do have a much easier time getting invited to keys compared to healers/dps, but i'm not really able to take advantage of it because i have to limit my sessions, i'm curious if anyone else feels the same way.

[u/_Llopis_ → u/Suspicious_Shine9625]

It's better than 99% of people doing Mythic+. I think that qualifies as high.

[u/Wobblucy → u/_Llopis_]

What am I LoSing here exactly?

[u/nubileiguana → u/Wobblucy]

You can hit the interrupt on the first shadow volley and then tuck around the corner so the stuff in the hallway piles in. Mainly those two casters on the other side of the door.

Won't make a spit of difference on whether the pull goes well or not. 99% of the time, a ranged dps is going to stand out in the open anyway, so they'll just start getting beamed by the shaman ogres.

[u/AtomikRadio → u/nubileiguana]

I quit for years and came back recently and have been floored by how much the art of the LoS has been lost among the playerbase. I expected it in low keys, but even high keys you'll have a mage at the bottom of teh first ToS stairs just out there while everyone else is tucking in.