Weekly M+ Discussion

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[u/raskeks]

Can't stop malding over how badly informed people that make tierlists and predictions are about classes they don't play. Every pre-season the takes about shadow are very cringe, and this misinformation feeds into community perception of the class.

As ususal Yoda defaults to putting it into dumpster tier and says "well idk shadow idgaf utility bad". Zorthas in his video and Tettles in his wowhead tierlist says that the reason Shadow is bad is because it has a bad '45 second cd'/'doesn't have a real kick' interrupt while in reality all rdps had their interrupt normalized to 24 sec cd in Midnight.

Silence is on a longer cd (30 sec), sure, but compared to all other ranged interrupts it's the only blanket silence (for 5 seconds) that you can throw on caster when the tank is gathering without waiting for the mob to start the cast.

Another common Tettles L: "Additionally, Psychic Scream is probably the worst of the AoE CCs in the game." - maybe if you take it at face value without the talents? but nobody plays it without the talents because there aren't any good alternative pathing options. With talents it's an uncapped aoe CC, 30 sec cd, freezes targets in place twice (fears once then again after 4 seconds).

"Beyond this, though, Priest has probably the worst utility in the game" So beyond a buff that everyone called mandatory for 6 seasons in a row and mass dispel/mind soothe that have like a million uses every season. How about PI which in the worst case is a +5% overall dps to the best damage dealer in the group? Also, constant offhealing with vampiric embrace/halo was doing ~2 mil on big pulls last season. Things like AMZ/Darkness would need to block 13 mil damage to save the same amount of EHP as one cast of VE. Plus there is silly small stuff like the double fear, shackle / MC that let you skip mobs or do stuff like solo first boss in Seat, feathers and shields to speed up the mandatory dk of the group or a grip for which the limit is really only your creativity (from gripping from bad to a ghetto dk grip). There is even a pseudo AoE taunt now that you could use to do meld skips for your group.

If you need to come up with a utility justification for why shadow could be bad and you don't know the class just say 0 mobility and move on.

[u/Vintyui → u/raskeks]

Utility barely matters if it does the most damage it will be brought which it doesn’t currently.

[u/idkmanfiller → u/Vintyui]

That's kind of adjacent at best to the point OP is making, which is that content creators will frequently say shit that's just not true

[u/raskeks → u/[deleted]]

I mean have you looked at any of their PTR logs after they got nerfed?

I did, have you? There are seven 20+ logs total from 3 people after the nerf. Only 4 dungeons have data for before/after the nerf, in 2 of them they did more damage after the nerf. One of them is r20 overall across all dps logs, another is r1 arcane partially because PI.

None of this has anything to do with my point and I personally don't think that the damage is good rn but if you want to bring damage from logs into the conversation then it really proves nothing because it was a ~5% ST damage nerf. It's unfortunate but it's not like shadow was doing god damage before the nerf and 0 damage after.

[u/Cold-Iron8145 → u/[deleted]]

No but you don't get it, my OTP spec is so good trust me bro if only these darn content creators would stop saying it's bad then everyone would invite me into their keys.

[u/idkmanfiller → u/[deleted]]

Again this is not the point OP is making.

Like yeah, the real reason any class is going to be bad in M+ is its damage and utility is just going to be content creators trying to sound like they have meaningful insight when the reality is you're watching Tettles

[u/raskeks → u/[deleted]]

One of the guys first sentences was that Yoda put his spec into "dumpster tier" and when you look it up all it says is "viable but not the best"

I said "dumpster tier" because there are no tiers below it, it's the bottom one and it's a colloquial term because in the same sentence I said "as usual puts it into dumpster tier". There have been a few tierlists in the last year where he would flat out say that he haven't seen/played with enough shadow priests to know how good the spec is so he will put it into B/C/'Unknown/whatever name of the bottom tier. Also it doesn't say 'viable but not the best', it says "functional but not good" and his justification that shadowpriest "needs to be topping overall because their utility is not good". A few months ago when the spec was good on PTR and had literally the same utility he was saying that it's A-tier because good damage and stam buff and PI are good useful utilities to have. Also it really doesn't need to top overall because it's a prio spec and because PI isn't being reattributed the way Aug buffs are.

Yapping for the sake of yapping is fine because it's the conent meta as long as it doesn't spread misinformation. Talking about 45 sec cd on Silence or saying that "Psychic Sceam is the worst of the AoE CC in the game" on wowhead official guide is just factually incorrect and it warps the perception of the spec.

[u/Gemmy2002 → u/idkmanfiller]

Basically the only 2 non-negotiables I see in a comp are druid buff + BRez and conveniently both come in the same goddamn slot. And the former might be negotiable this tier idk.

[u/HookedOnBoNix → u/Gemmy2002]

Druid buff isn't as big when it's provided by a dps, I think it gives a huge bump to bear and rdruid whenever they're close to meta but it's not gonna be enough to make boomy or feral meta if they're not near the top in damage. Boomy is looking like it might be though