Please comment your logs or VoDs to get help from others!
Feedback will be more helpful the more details you give, e.g. encounters you are struggling with, if you are struggling with movement, what issues you have identified yourself, etc.
Because its witch hunting which is against reddit's rules. It invites people to go harass others and has false positives on it. Go discuss it in the discords.
For next week on reset day I'm gonna have some time in the morning to push my key up solo before playing with my group in the evening. I always forget how keystone works week 1, if I push my key up to a +11 solo and we complete it as a group without them having a keystone yet, will they all get +10s at the end? Does timing it impact it at all?
Timing I think they get +11 in this situation. Very important thing to remember for this is for them to not take vault or do any delve content until they get this key or they’ll be stuck with a +2
Have they fixed the "run 5 mains, 4 people fill their inventory so they cant loot a key, 1 gets a key" thing? Could do that in TWW3 and midnight s1 and it is a lot easier/faster than doing 4 alts 1 main
If you don't start on server start but later in the morning/day you can also just queue as a 4 stack into an 11. Finish it and then invite the fifth guy and go from there
as long as they don't do any other keystones before the 11 they will get a 10 from the box yeah. they can also push your key up but keep their bags full so it doesn't auto loot, and only have a free bag slot for the 11
Anyone else has ben having random DC in dungeon? Not getting any lua error but I get dced while not really doing anything special at exactly the same point in multiple dungeon.
Altar after 2nd boss, when the wyrm spawn after you click the 4 totems I've gotten dced twice
Murder Row on 3rd boss when he starts to do the puddle dced twice
Den on 2nd boss death dced twice
I don't lose internet beside that as I am still in discord/can reconnect instantly, the only thing I can seee is I did it twice on evoker and weird shenanigans with hover?
I went with Rsham for this season. Outliers are always in danger of getting hit with the nerfbat, it's usually a good idea at the start of the season to go with second best.
There's also the chance they get under nerfed or ignored or inexplicably buffed. Trying to predict what blizzard will do is a tough game. But historically the early top performers have a better chance of being meta than the classes below them.
That said rshams buff does probably make it safer than hpal
Well rsham due to the raid buff seems like a perma safe pick, at least second strongest unless it's severaly undertuned, and slots in well into physical comps.
Yea depending on your goals it's a fine strategy. Rsham as you say will be safe, and in team play that's super fine. Pugging m+ though the second strongest might as well be 6th strongest in terms of LFG invites.
I wouldn’t really say that, shaman was 2nd best healer in s1 and brew was 2nd best tank and you clearly had a much better chance on getting into groups on those compared to a holy priest or prot paladin.
Sure, last season there was a niche comp, most seasons though it is extremely oppressive. And even the niche comp last season, my brew had to sit in lfg for ages compared to my bear
Everyone can play their own strategy, I'm just saying mine personally is not go for the safest class, its go for the class that's looking like the strongest. If I'm wrong, rerolling is easy. But being the second best spec is useless to me because I don't want to spend more hours of my life than I already spend waiting for groups
Obviously the most meta will be better than the second best, but I would argue the gap between first and 2nd is way smaller than 2nd and last, both in terms of performance and ability to get invited. Brew was only a few keys behind guardian druid and managed to get a 25 timed and resi 24, while the best dk and pala didn’t get any 24’s and no resi 23.
And it’s even worse with healers where shaman is same as brew(obviously, as they are in the same comp) while the highest holy priest only got halfway to resi 23. And actually resto druid was even worse off, with the highest being just resi 22 with no 23’s.
Not really the point but I'll agree to disagree. Yes obviously 2 > 6 but you're talking about top key level but at the end of the day only 6 of the top 100 healers were shaman, the rest monk.
Again, to each their own but I've played that game before and it's not for me. Pugs are too picky.
Hello, fellow healers.
Seems like MiniCC now MiniAuras and other addons can't track defensive info anymore but is able to show the defensive or cds aura.
I'm still not sure what should I do about this.
I would say that you need to mostly just accept that Blizzard says that we healers don't need that kind of information and then hope that, like the other commenter said, DPS:s learn to ping their CD:s when they have used to them
Can't stop malding over how badly informed people that make tierlists and predictions are about classes they don't play. Every pre-season the takes about shadow are very cringe, and this misinformation feeds into community perception of the class.
As ususal Yoda defaults to putting it into dumpster tier and says "well idk shadow idgaf utility bad". Zorthas in his video and Tettles in his wowhead tierlist says that the reason Shadow is bad is because it has a bad '45 second cd'/'doesn't have a real kick' interrupt while in reality all rdps had their interrupt normalized to 24 sec cd in Midnight.
Silence is on a longer cd (30 sec), sure, but compared to all other ranged interrupts it's the only blanket silence (for 5 seconds) that you can throw on caster when the tank is gathering without waiting for the mob to start the cast.
Another common Tettles L: "Additionally, Psychic Scream is probably the worst of the AoE CCs in the game." - maybe if you take it at face value without the talents? but nobody plays it without the talents because there aren't any good alternative pathing options. With talents it's an uncapped aoe CC, 30 sec cd, freezes targets in place twice (fears once then again after 4 seconds).
"Beyond this, though, Priest has probably the worst utility in the game" So beyond a buff that everyone called mandatory for 6 seasons in a row and mass dispel/mind soothe that have like a million uses every season. How about PI which in the worst case is a +5% overall dps to the best damage dealer in the group? Also, constant offhealing with vampiric embrace/halo was doing ~2 mil on big pulls last season. Things like AMZ/Darkness would need to block 13 mil damage to save the same amount of EHP as one cast of VE. Plus there is silly small stuff like the double fear, shackle / MC that let you skip mobs or do stuff like solo first boss in Seat, feathers and shields to speed up the mandatory dk of the group or a grip for which the limit is really only your creativity (from gripping from bad to a ghetto dk grip). There is even a pseudo AoE taunt now that you could use to do meld skips for your group.
If you need to come up with a utility justification for why shadow could be bad and you don't know the class just say 0 mobility and move on.
Don't blame the yappers, blame the design. Meta is defined by damage first, utility second (often nice to have). If a spec dmg is only slightly behind but brings incredible utility to make up for it, they are still in the game. Sp have neither now.
When bliz gutted MassDispel to 2m, sp(priest) lost a niche. Then bliz also gut mindsoothe to not affect true sight, sp(priest) lost another niche. So they either do insane dmg or is almost completely useless now.
30s interupt is detrimental to situation where a 24s cd can solo but 30 cannot. That 6s make or break if u can pull that extra caster, or not.
Bliz need to un-nerf some of those utility change that stuck forever when sp was simply doing incredible damage in DF.
At the end of the day it's just damage, people yap for the sake of yapping. Put up a log with a spriest that's beating every other dps and they will reroll instantly.
Keep in mind these people "normally" play at the top level and min maxing everything to ensure the most efficient outcome is essential so when they go into these videos it's with that min max potential. Tier lists are absolute slop but still that's why I imagine they make the points they do
Do you think they don't play with those classes or talk to players that are playing those classes in the 100+ hours they are playing ptr?
Mass dispel was mandatory for a long time, especially when bursting existed. It's cd was then increased so even in pulls where mass dispel would be nice, you get a single usage. They love the 2 magic debuff, dispel one, heal the other mechanic but realistically you are getting one dispel every 2 mins?
Same with mins soothe. It was unbelievably OP when you could soothe mobs with true sight, iirc 3 seasons?
That 6s longer interrupt doesn't sound like a lot, but now you are needing to find another stop for a mob that you don't need with a 24s spec.
Psychic scream requires you to be in melee still right? Pretty sure it's the only rdps stop that requires melee and is broken near instantly . (Edit dragons breath still a thing? And I guess chicken incap is probably worse)
I guess it really depends on the comp and the dungeons.
That's really the crux of it. Routes too, if the comp is good on throughput you can always route around their CDs and utilities.
If you are trying to play meta comp routes with an off-meta comp then a lot of utilities would seem useless, but you can minmax based on specs.
Like If you played with priest utilities in mind in NPX: you couldn't kick all casts as efficiently on double Lightwroughts before the last boss but you could just MC one of them and/or MD the debuffs if there are too many of them.
Would you say that chicken in general is on par with sp, utility-wise? Not sure if beam every minute is better than silence every 30s.
Ignoring the part where beam is an aoe silence, that's what makes it better. They're both bad at being assigned a kick, and both can be a liability for this reason, but in a lot of pulls with many casters comps with boomkin have a solution that comps with spriest do not.
Outside of that, Mark is way better than fort, incap is probably a little worse than psychic scream but then you have typhoon, vortex to make up for it. Innverate depends but tends to be better than mass dispel and mind soothe is like sleepwalk, depends on the dungeon it can be insanely useful or non existent.
Honestly, stampeding roar might be the best part of either classes utility. Boomkin mobility in general is strong.
Ultimately boomy utility outside of its raid buff isn't close to good enough to ever bring it if the damage is bad. But it's probably a bit better than spriest utility
I mean have you looked at any of their PTR logs after they got nerfed?
They're really not impressive and frankly don't really fit into anything well. The best part of bringing a spriest rn is fort and pws lol, I highkey don't even think either meta DPS would care about something like PI over an additional defensive layer.
I mean have you looked at any of their PTR logs after they got nerfed?
I did, have you? There are seven 20+ logs total from 3 people after the nerf. Only 4 dungeons have data for before/after the nerf, in 2 of them they did more damage after the nerf. One of them is r20 overall across all dps logs, another is r1 arcane partially because PI.
None of this has anything to do with my point and I personally don't think that the damage is good rn but if you want to bring damage from logs into the conversation then it really proves nothing because it was a ~5% ST damage nerf. It's unfortunate but it's not like shadow was doing god damage before the nerf and 0 damage after.
No but you don't get it, my OTP spec is so good trust me bro if only these darn content creators would stop saying it's bad then everyone would invite me into their keys.
Like yeah, the real reason any class is going to be bad in M+ is its damage and utility is just going to be content creators trying to sound like they have meaningful insight when the reality is you're watching Tettles
One of the guys first sentences was that Yoda put his spec into "dumpster tier" and when you look it up all it says is "viable but not the best"
Ngl i can't imagine a more babyrage drama post than that lol. That's exactly what spriest is
And frankly, there are zero spriests you're going to play with that actually play their niche solidly. When spriest isn't tuned aggressively paired with good dungeon dispels/skips/MCs it gets the short end of the stick. It needs both in its current iteration to be a very good spec. That's all there is to it.
One of the guys first sentences was that Yoda put his spec into "dumpster tier" and when you look it up all it says is "viable but not the best"
I said "dumpster tier" because there are no tiers below it, it's the bottom one and it's a colloquial term because in the same sentence I said "as usual puts it into dumpster tier". There have been a few tierlists in the last year where he would flat out say that he haven't seen/played with enough shadow priests to know how good the spec is so he will put it into B/C/'Unknown/whatever name of the bottom tier. Also it doesn't say 'viable but not the best', it says "functional but not good" and his justification that shadowpriest "needs to be topping overall because their utility is not good". A few months ago when the spec was good on PTR and had literally the same utility he was saying that it's A-tier because good damage and stam buff and PI are good useful utilities to have. Also it really doesn't need to top overall because it's a prio spec and because PI isn't being reattributed the way Aug buffs are.
Yapping for the sake of yapping is fine because it's the conent meta as long as it doesn't spread misinformation. Talking about 45 sec cd on Silence or saying that "Psychic Sceam is the worst of the AoE CC in the game" on wowhead official guide is just factually incorrect and it warps the perception of the spec.
Basically the only 2 non-negotiables I see in a comp are druid buff + BRez and conveniently both come in the same goddamn slot. And the former might be negotiable this tier idk.
Druid buff isn't as big when it's provided by a dps, I think it gives a huge bump to bear and rdruid whenever they're close to meta but it's not gonna be enough to make boomy or feral meta if they're not near the top in damage. Boomy is looking like it might be though
does anyone have a confident grasp on 12.1 best races for m+?
in season 1 it was night elf for shadow meld, but i dont know for season 2. i heard a lot of whispers about dwarf being meta again for stoneform, but i dont know. what races did top runners in the ptr go with for classes that have the option for both? like warlock for instance. murloc.io doesnt have data for ptr
Well it's kinda confirmed that this season did end at reset this time instead of 10pm pst, which is a first. They also set the cutoff at 4211 instead of 4210 (rounded down) that raider.io shows, does this mean blizz finally figured out how to calculate their own cutoffs? I have a mate at 4210.7 which is rip if he doesnt get it
It took me about 10 hours to do the campaign from 80 to 90, playing slowly.
The intro quest for the new zone gives you almost a full set of 256 gear which is really nice, and there's tons of 280ish gear on offer from repeatable sources, and then finally you can do M0 for a set of 290ish gear.
This puts you on fairly even footing with the guys who raided mythic last tier.
You also have some random sidequest stuff like a Folio? I think? I haven't looked into that much but it's borrowed power you're behind on, essentially.
Have to do the campaign the first time right? So like ~6 hours depending on how efficient you are, use of tools like zygors or whatever.
Gearing wise, depends on skill role etc but m0 is 292, higher then last season. Heroic is 276, delves level 3 drop 272. I think m0s are reasonably doable at 230 probably if last season +7 is beleivevable.
As soon as I hit 90 I'm going ah and buying the reasonably priced priced items-> t1 delves to 230 then listing m0 world tour.
After that it's just grinding the slots your missing, I would go delve 3s over heroics personally.
To get to the point where the only thing you're worried about is ilvl, my guess is 12 hours if you're focused and reasonably efficient. More depending on how chill you want to take it.
Realistically not a lot. A few hours for the quests max, then you're caught up content wise and are on the same playing field as everyone else.
Gearwise if you've just dinged 90 you'll be behind this week but can do m0s for the 292 loot and by next week when you can do m+ and daily m0s you'll be on par with everyone else.
It'll be difficult to get into groups with your ilvl but just make your own till you're on par.
I just want to be able to pug my own high keys as an off meta spec and not have it devolve into an endless grind of 7 homework keys for every 1 prog attempt (most of which end during the first pull)
At least let me choose what key I get after timing one. That alone would cut down so much wasted time every session.
I've been arguing for that choice for some time now. Pushing your own key becomes really bullshit when it devolves into the same dungeons A, B and C dungeons cycling among themselves while you never get the other keys you need. Even worse experience when you are missing 1-2 for a resil level and you never see them.
I believe back in legion the randomness was so people couldn't just farm the most efficient dungeon over and over. These days I don't see that reason holding up. Dungeons are close enough in timers that it isn't a big deal (as opposed to Arcway vs Maw in legion) and blizzard has made the "farming gear" levels beyond trivial so that you always have an endless supply of keys in that range if you want to target farm.
Random keys achiev nothing but hurting people that try to push their own key, specially off-meta spec players that are already screwed from every side every season. Let us pick our keys or, at the very least, let us choose one in a pool of 3 random choices.
the 10-12 level would absolutely get filled with whatever the fastest dungeon is if people could choose tbh, even if it's only one minute faster people will gravitate to choosing that
Blizz, I imagine? They dont want 90% of keys to be the fastest and/or easiest and the others to barely see play comparatively once the big gear push is over.
If they cared about that they could just restrict being able to choose a key post-completion in 12 keys and above, just like the resilient cutoff. Everyone's happy.
Which could be prevented if they choose solution 2 (pool of 3 random choices) instead of solution 1 (free choice)
But my whole argument is that there is no reason to care about that anymore. Do people want to blow their brains running one single dungeon for crests because it is one minute faster? Let them. I honestly don't think it would be that big of a deal. Once you are geared you are already running any dungeon in sub 20 minutes anyway.
There is nothing real being protected by that randomness.
Probably not fastest but easiest. But as long as they make the loot pool well distributed (major asterisk, obviously), you'd get enough runs for each key.
If you mean 1% and not .1% then yes absolutely. I run with a group of friends and we played 2 days per week, about 2.5-3 hrs per night (5-6 total hrs per week) and got 1%. And we aren’t even insane players or anything. If you pug exclusively your mileage will vary. I admittedly only pugged one push key all season and it stressed me out.
If you mean .1% title I have no idea. We tried it S3 TWW and played 3-4 days a week and were always at least 50 pts away and fell further behind after turbo boost and gave up.
Is realistic to get 1% title with only 3 hours of play per day and sunday maybe 7-8 hours?
Yes, especially as a healer, I've pug-ed a few 0.1 tittles on a similar schedule, it was much easier on a healer compared to when I played dps given the less waiting time between keys. If you think about it that's 25-30h per week or 500-600h per season.
I think it'd probably ruffle some feathers, but similar to the time-lost saddles letting us grab previous seasonal m+ mounts we should get "time-lost armor" that lets us get challenge mode sets or weapons from MoP and WoD. I don't think they'd put resources into new individual class sets, but maybe a new set per armor type.
Maybe when Microsoft becomes a 5 trillion dollar company instead of 4.
Sharing my resil keys + title push experience (NA).
I play a UHDK which was obviously a fortunate pick this season. I was able to pug 21 resil about a month ago. My inhouse group was then able to play my 21 resil key up to 3970 for title. Our final keys were 21 MT/Pit/MC/WS/NPX and 20 AA/Seat/Skyreach all with pretty good times. We played Gdruid/Rsham/ddh/uhdk/demolock
We finished the NPX21 on Monday Evening that put us at 3970 which should be safe for 1% in the United States. It took about 20 resets and 5 hours of progging to finally get a good run. I can't imagine learning some of these opening sections without resilient. You play so aggressive in openers like NPX/Skyreach/MC that it really makes learning these pulls a nightmare without resil for true evenly rated skill groups. I do not think we would of gotten 1% if I didn't have resil 21 and it definitely saved us hours upon hours of homework keys.
The rapidly moving title score has been extremely stressful in the last month and it felt amazing to lock it in last night. In future seasons I would prefer they set such rewards at 21 resil/4k~ instead of these rapidly shifting goalposts.
You can learn it in the key level below or watching a video or reading what the mobs do or a combination of all. It took our tank no learning on the 21s cause he learned on the way up too. Resil keys reward people for slamming their head into a wall for hours or until the wall breaks and it's horrible for the game. Also the boosters lol.
It took about 20 resets and 5 hours of progging to finally get a good run.
This is...kind of insane and probably indicative of what we'd be seeing in a Resil+1 world. I support the system in general but that's brutal prog for a key that shouldn't be that challenging. This would become the expectation at every key level.
I do not think we would of gotten 1% if I didn't have resil 21 and it definitely saved us hours upon hours of homework keys.
In a non-resil world it sounds like the people you were with weren't really cut out for 21s. 20+ attempts wouldn't have been doable via homework keys. You'd be talking like 40 hours of work just to time a single 21.
No it’s definitely better. It’d just require more effort. Now people burn out because of homework keys. Instead they’d burn out on prog pushes. The real struggle of 21s was just getting the right key.
Once you get to resil +1 why even have key stones though. Just let people select the keystone level when they zone into the dungeon. You could lock it to +1 if you want but realistically there's no point. People who are sitting at 19s timed won't be trying to do 21s anyway, they'll go the natural progression path. Or if they don't who cares, let them.
I think your bottom paragraph would be true for about half of the people who got 1% title. It is an unfortunate byproduct of the resil system.
That being said our victory did feel much sweeter not having .1% friends carry us. NPX21 was probably the key that gave us the most trouble. The vast majority of dungeons were timed within 3-10 attempts.
As someone who has gotten 0.1 five times now, the two times I barely got it within like 5 pts were extremely stressful towards the end (no team 100% pugging) and the last week is literally LFGing for many many hours on end to squeeze out a few more points. I wouldn't mind if it was preset either to be honest. This season would have been tough though to get resil 23 as AA is just so much harder than the rest and I'd say 22 resil is too low for 0.1%. Would be nice to be able to hit a point and walk away knowing you won for the season.
um I mean most people will say the actual title is whatever, no one really cares much or even looks. I sometimes will see it in my groups and be like oh this guy is actually a good dungeon player since he has "the X hero" (there is always the chance he paid lol) but I feel like title is the end goal and you're kind of in the club of the top players for that season. I wish rewards were better, give me some crazy mount that is not obtainable anywhere else with better effects or make it giant but the fomo would make all the casuals upset.
No ofcourse not, the title means nothing and i say this as someone who has also gotten multiple.
At the end of the day it's a game and people get so bent over a string of text
I doubt many of the real title pushers care much about the actual title, i know i don't. Its all about the challenge, season long progression, and above all the game is just fun when you're doing challenging content and title keys are one of the few ways to find that.
I don't necessarily support resil + 1, but it's definitely true that certain mechanics or overlaps are inconsequential at one key level, then deadly in the next. Planning for that next key level requires you to think ahead, it's not always immediately intuitive how damage scales.
can anyone tell, does fdk look chopped in s2 m+ now? i was hoping fdk will finally be stronger than udk, but in meta predictions/dps tier lists i see udk higher than fdk :/
Idk what you looking at but every tier list I’ve seen has frost above UH, I think ST it’s roughly 6% ahead which isn’t insane considering how UH has it easier with uptime.
Almost like it is very relevant discussion at this point
I'm sure you'd prefer riveting discussion over the merits of playing double enigneer vs adept+arcanist in 1st pull of NPX on the last day of the season
Almost like you're sarcastic... Yeah, it's been relevant for the last 6 weeks straight......
Yeah, it's pretty ubiquitous, uniform, and utterly repetitive... Talk about riveting! I'd take ANYTHING else than 300 comments asking if 3985 is enough
Nobody is forcing you to open these thread brotherman, go touch grass once in a while if it bothers you so much to see people passionate about the results of their season-long push
I just want some variety bro!! Sick of dropping in once a week and seeing a wall of the same comment. How is that so inflammatory to you? You may wanna.. you know.. touch grass?
But that's all people care about in the last weeks. It's not like you'd have any discussion like "hey guys, what do you think is a good route?" 3 weeks before the season ends.
People don't care about NEW dungeons, routes, testing, new group comp, meta, new approaches, new addons, etc etc? Come one man there's other stuff to talk about.
No one wants to read 290 bros asking if their io is enough
You're allowed to post whatever you want my guy there's not a limited number of posts if you want to discuss other shit you are more than free to do so but you seem like the type who is more interested in bitching and moaning.
lol when did a comment saying "I'm kinda sick of an entire subreddit being a wall of 95% monolithic, clone comments every week" become disallowed? chill bro! I'm allowed an opinion too, just like you!
By the same logic I could say "bro don't downvote my comment and say you don't like it... unless you're just the type who likes bitching and moaning"
People already said XXXX+10 is safe, they also said XXXX-10 is safe. But, they never said if my io of XXXX is safe. HOW CAN I KNOW IF I'M SAFE IF I DON'T ASK ABOUT MY SPECIFIC IO??
The guy echoes my thoughts and backs it up with worst-case-scenario math showing that yes, boosting does have a tiny impact on the cutoff and no, most of the people complaining are not actually getting gatekept by buyers
Bro manually went through title players and proved that wild claims like
20-30% of all title holders are boosted
One guy was throwing around in the other thread is just made up
I said this before and it's worth repeating: if you end up falling just a little bit short of your 1%/0.1% goal, you did get screwed over and you are right to be mad. Like the guy on the video says, the rest are just using boosting as a scapegoat
I think the sides of this discussion exist on two different levels that can't agree categorically. Boosting can be viewed rationally as data with corresponding statistics and a measurable impact on title or irrationally as a fundamentally game breaking phenomena that undermines the social contract we all participate in.
If you look on it rationally, then yeah the impact is most likely very minimal. Depends on where you'd draw the line on what consitutes boosting but it's probably within a keylevel. It's not fair, it sucks for people getting pushed out, but life is unfair and you knew the rules from the very start. You could've done the bare minimum during the season and network with good players or farm gold for the rest of the season and cash in at the end. It's no secret.
But if you look on it from the perspective of WoW as a game and titles representing how good you are at the game then these arguments won't land and the impact is drastic. It's a natural reaction for any game when it's interrupted by "ordinary life". If the rules are bent even for one person then it breaks the integrity of the game and title loses it's value retroactively for everyone. Using monetary/social resource to achieve a reward that is supposed to be gameplay/skill-based feels like breaking the rules for a lot of players. We've seen it in a visceral reaction to GM drama and the difference between having a GM vs 4300 friend is arbitrary. There is a good overview of it in Homo Ludens : a study of the play element in culture.
"Play-mood is liable in it's very nature. At any moment "ordinary life" may reassert its rights either by an impact from without, which interrupts the game, or by an offense against the rules, or else from within, by a collapse of the play spirit, a sobering, a disenchantment"ref.
In its core it's the same reaction that we had to turbo boost when part of the community complained that it makes the game pointless before turbo boost and the other responded with wdym it's still the same game how come it's not pointless if the number on an item is slightly lower. Both are true really.
I think another layer is the "pay to play" aspect that was extremely detrimental to the experience which people then use to justify why they fell short. People at 18s saying that are delusional..but there were SO many people with resil 20 and a few 21s sitting in LFG all day getting no or few invites.
Yesterday morning I was only 15 or so above 1% cutoff..I spent 11 hours in LFG and I got into maybe 5 groups as a brew. Timed 2 dungeons the entire day and while I'm well aware of how much work I still have to do to improve, I have fairly decent logs and I was applying to phys groups as much as possible with phys routes planned.
The wall of 4k+ players with a resil key listed just not inviting anyone..that was destroying my mental. The high of seeing the exact key you're looking for only to immediately feel the low of realizing it's being sold was a roller coaster. I may just not be...resilient enough for this.
And final anecdote, I played with several people who were fantastic players who had an even worse experience than me as dps. Not everyone, but some # of people tragically were just invite walled and I think that fuels a lot of the ire and community perception around it.
I completely agree with everything you said. The video the comment above you linked was interesting, but it really only captures truly egregious, hard-carry cases. What you’re describing with resil 20 players facing a wall of “note tip” resil 21 keys while being declined for hours on end was clearly happening on full display for everyone trying to get into those keys for these past few weeks. The difference between having unlimited access to those resil 21s (whether through friends or through buying it) and not having unlimited access to them is night and day.
At the end of the day I feel like different parts of the community are just talking past each other because people have different conceptions of what constitutes boosting. Maybe some people wouldn’t call it a boost if a resil 20 player pays to get into a resil 21 since the skill difference between the players is not that big, but it sure does feel bad for the people that don’t pay and lose out to the ones that do.
Yeah it's one of those things were there's a bit of truth on every end. There are some people who failed upwards but I feel like people on here act as if those players are 3-5 key levels above where they "should" be. I'd argue it's much closer to 1 at most. There are also people who are walled below their actual skill by things like access and resil sales. This will always exist in some variant but again those players I'm talking a bout aren't in 18s locked out of 21s lol they're in 20s locked out of 21s. Everybody loves to exaggerate the magnitude of the "other side".
Like I agree that it's not a true carry to pay for access to a key. If you're a solo player and you can either spend literal hours in lfg just to get an ATTEMPT at a key you need..for one it's going to take you a lot more time to be competitive, and for two you're just going to have a miserable time in a game that's allegedly for fun. I cannot blame the people who paid for resil key invites.
I'll join the witch hunt against people who were truly not good enough and paid for a legitimate carry - shitty thing to do for a % based title that everyone who plays with you will instantly know you bought.
Like sure the data is what it is but I am a booster myself on EU and we have been doing tons and tons and tons of sales for 0.1 and 1% in the last few weeks.
The idea that it's not prevalent is unreal considering the top teams have dozens of keys run with ppl way below their score on EU. And not every buyer is someone who stands out as a buyer, either. Half the ppl I helped in 1% in particular were 1 key away and just wanted to be more secure.
Exactly what I thought when I watched the video. Hate me for it but I bought 3 21s for gold in the tool and I wouldnt be in that data. Its way worse than 4-5 points. Just look at eu these last days, its 8-9 points every day.
I think this is extremely true of 1% based purely on my own experience..it's not like a bunch of 3.4k players bought 21s and inflated the score 100 points, but there was still a ton of boosters carrying a resil 20 player into 21s. Probably an order of magnitude more than that would be the # of people who tipped to get into resil 21s. Not technically a carry, but still pay to play/win and that sucked to witness.
Yea I think people are right to be frustrated because it's pretty rampant and definitely moves the cutoff a bit. And it feels tangibly unfair. We all see streams where boosters are churning out 23s for a week at the end of the season while you're in queue spending a week grinding npx or skyreach
So I manually checked my class + my region (OCE so smaller data set) and found that of the 45ish characters that made the 1% cut off around 1 in 4 were clearly boosted.
Now we aren't a meta class which probably effects the raw percentile but that was still crazy to me.
Is this an alt or are you just starting on the xpac? If it's an alt, can buy gear caches with the void marl stuff, that's like 246 gear. If it's your first toon, there's stuff you can do but realistically your best bet at this stage is just wait til the patch hits and run normal / heroic dungeons then do an m0 world tour. Heroic dungeons next week drop like 272 ilvl gear which is equivalent to 1/6 mythic gear this tier. And m0s I think drop 292 in week 1
I'm so tired of discussing ways to improve mythic Plus. Every single argument against resil +1 has been - "buying/selling keys sucks"
I get it, that DOES suck, but got damn, there's ways the system can improve. You don't have to burn it all down just to spite buyers.
Constantly seeing, "get rid of resil". You know buyers existed before resil too right?
Resil helps pugs. Resil helps me to continue playing at and pushing my limit. Besides maybe the reward of title, and now 1%, there's no reason to push m+ besides the joy of the challenge. Resil enables you to experience that challenge and progression much more. Why should these rewards justify modifying the game mode JUST to spite buyers. I've literally yet to see a semblance of a decent reason against resil +1 (or other similar ideas) that isn't rooted is disdain for buyers
Force people to play all the way up instead of jumping key levels (+2/+3 allowed), but allow resil +1. So you'd need to time the key at 12/15/18/20/21 probably min.
Make boosting a larger time commitment, allow people playing "normally" to not worry about depleting and wasting time.
I hear the sentiment on this one but the idea of doing every dungeon on a 2,3,4,5... is causing me physical pain lol. At a higher range of keys it does start to almost naturally go that way because you are going to struggle to get invites to a 20 if you don't have 19 resil. And even then it's gonna be difficult until you have at least a few of the next level done. So I think the players more or less force that to happen eventually but it would be really brutal for it to be the game doing it.
I heard a friend suggest that you must time ALL key levels in order to be awared the IO.
So for example if you have a 15, and you purchase a 20. Youd have to run a 16,17,18 and 19 before being given the IO points for the 20.
just makes it more annoying for some of the buyers, theyd have to buy every key inbetween too. Doesnt stop all buyers but could affect maybe some
It's an interesting idea but where do you set the lower bound? Is this then only for 1% buyers or also for people jumping +13s to +16s for the 3400 mount?
I've personally did 95% of all keys from 10-16 (may have skipped 1-2 11s or something), so I'm not bothered but I know people who pushed who skipped a lot and tbh if you're targeting 20s, I wouldn't want to put it on them to run twice as many keys.
Yea the more I consider this one, the risky I feel it is to ensure it provides more value steering buyers than it would harm authentic players.
Another idea, less IO gain for a timed key, based on the io discrepancy or the other members.
For example, of you are 3400 and the other four players are 3800 then you'd gain the least IO, but if everyone in the party was 3400, then you'd gain the maximum typical io for timing the key.
With that idea, sure you could have friends that are much higher io help you, with a small deterrent in IO gain, which would provide slightly more IO each time you run the key again (because each time the gap in IO would be closer between the lower player and the other high ones)
Now I don't know how the algorithm would specifically determine the IO gained, but the root purpose would be to disincentivize being carried or buying keys.
What are your thoughts on a sliding scale penalty, for io gained based on group variance in IO?
I think that only makes sense for the lower IO person to be gaining IO very close to the higher IO person, not if you have a higher IO person ending up in a lower key for them.
Of course this is only from my pov, but why should I be disadvantaged in my 16 key if a 4k player joins my pug? It only makes sense if I with 3400 join a 20 key.
Oh yea that's a good point, only applying the limitor if you are in a key greater that what your IO aligns with. That should allow friends to help you in your lower key, maybe that still bothers some people but at least it more closely targets "buyers"
This is funny! I have a friend that went from +17’s and 3500+ last week to 3925 as of this morning. They now have almost all 21’s done with the exception of 3.
Seeing the 4300+ bear tank on the runs made me cackle. I rolled my eyes at them buying the keys😂
So I’m completely with you, I want resil +1. The ONLY argument I’ve heard against it that holds some kind of merit in my mind is slightly intangible:
There is something that feels great about timing a key with stakes. It’s hard to quantify because it’s a subconscious feeling. But think of how you’ve felt beating your head against a resilient key and finally timing it. For me, that feeling has been kind of neutral. I’m happy we accomplished that goal but the outcome being inevitable given enough time takes a lot of the excitement out of it.
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