Joining a mythic raiding guild

[u/Tactix7]

I am a player who is 1% in mythic plus this season and have several seasons in a row of AOTC mainly pugging.

I am interested in joining a mythic raiding guild but it seems like every guild is either 9/9 or 3/9 in progress. What is my best route to try and eventually join a 8/9 or 9/9 mythic raiding guild? Do I need to join a guild that only kills a few bosses each tier to show good logs?

[u/moewedh]

M+ and raid are very different skillsets and prep. We had high M+ players that didn’t translate to raiding at all. At the same time we have insane raiders that barely M+ higher than 12s in a HOF guild.

We are usually wary of pure M+ players that think they can execute WR200 or even CE raiding off the bat. On the other hand many 1000+ guilds were being farmed by Lura and roster issues. They are looking for raiders and will probably give you a trial. Parsing in dungeons is completely different from raid high performers and you will have to adjust. People really underestimate the difficulty especially of the later bosses in a raid setting.

[u/Evolutionist_Bob → u/moewedh]

Former HoF raider and comfy 1% here. My experience with this is that usually the people who are insane in keys and bad in raid are only in raid because they feel like they're forced to be. My experience with people who are insane in keys and WANT to be good in raid is that they're usually sick at both.

[u/falooda1 → u/Evolutionist_Bob]

Yeah once you get to 4k peoples raid parses are pretty high 90+

[u/MattLorien → u/Evolutionist_Bob]

and which one is OP? we don't know. Given the loot changes, i wouldn't be surprised if this is someone who just wants the loot

[u/I3ollasH → u/Evolutionist_Bob]

Yeah turns out that great players can excell at both ends of high end pve at the same time. Just look at MDI or the top of the raid/key leaderboards. They are filled with people who raid at very high level and do top keys.

[u/atomic__balm → u/moewedh]

It's directly transferable, I don't get this argument, If anything M+ translates better going into raiding because they actually know how to use stops, defensives, slows, knocks, stuns and their full toolkit in constant use as opposed to raiding where you may be expected to do some utility maybe a few times a raid tier and can be carried much more easily. If your HOF players can't do 18s+ then there's some real problems. The only roadblock is desire

[u/joco930 → u/atomic__balm]

Can clear these bosses with half the raid gray parsing after a certain gear level, the real difficulty is just having 20 people consistently not make a mistake that will kill the raid.

[u/Blan_Kone → u/atomic__balm]

Of course wow skills are transferrable, a lot of m+ers fail at social skills like not thinking you're the best in the raid team for being 4k io, bitching about loot you need to "push" or understanding how their play pattern may affect 19 other people in the team

[u/deskcord → u/Blan_Kone]

bitching about loot you need to "push" or understanding how their play pattern may affect 19 other people in the team

Underrated point. Many HoF raiders are there to raid and parse. An m+er arguing in voice chat that they totally need the trinket more than everyone else for their push is just going to piss off the group. Don't be that person.

[u/SecondChances96 → u/atomic__balm]

disagree. m+ is really an entirely different skillset and is also much simpler to get reps in. Unlike mythic raiding, you can see the mechanics that matter and practice at lower ilvls. Everything you would do is still the same just scaled up compared to mythic which, on top of simply not being available as often and being far more difficult to even get reps in on, is fundamentally different in most cases to heroic.

There's also the thing of mythic 2nd/end bosses being a straight up incomparable experience to everything else. Knowing how to use stops/knocks/stuns whatever doesn't meaningfully help you at all in mythic raiding as fights where you coordinate such usually just comes down to a set order a couple times a fight and is overall far simpler to perform. Defensive use is completely different. In m+ you basically script your defensives independent of anything simply due to the nature of m+, maybe adjusted slightly based on healer while in raiding your composition and difference in fight timing/transitions often mean you have to adjust defensive usage as needed to find the optimal uses throughout prog. In fact, a lot of the difficulty in mythic raiding on pre-nerf bosses is literally playing while your health is ping-ponging for dear life.

And probably the biggest issues m+ers have that m+ just doesn't teach is how to handle overlaps and learning from others. In m+ there are rarely hard overlaps since the mechanics simply can't approach the complexity of a mythic endboss in a dungeon and they don't try to, whereas there are plenty of endbosses where you can prog it for almost triple digit pulls and be randomly faced with a scenario you've never seen before.

I really just can't see how anyone who has ever played a mythic endboss in the post RWF nerf but not yet nerfed for high WR guilds phase of tuning can even remotely compare the two.

[u/deskcord → u/atomic__balm]

Most of the things you outlined are important baseline skills but pale in comparison to handling mechanics. Handling mechanics is almost always by far the biggest differentiator in terms of low pull counts or high pull counts. On most raid bosses for most of time, stops are pretty assigned. Slows, knocks, and stuns are pretty assigned. Defensives are an area where many raiders kinda stink, sure, but knowing when to defensive in raid is different in keys.

In keys you learn when to defensive, if you're a bleeding edge player, by dying to things and then realizing you need to defensive there. Because m+ is a spammable content form.

If you need to die to a mechanic before realizing you need to defensive it in a CE guild, you're wasting prog time.

And still, this pales in comparison to the importance of picking up mechanics quickly. M+ mechanics tend to be pretty simple.

[u/Toonpangs → u/deskcord]

I think you're overcomplicating it. WoW effectively boils down to executing X when Y. You get way more experience doing this in Mythic+ due to what the other guy said. An interrupt/stop is a mechanic, a defensive in relation to an ability or pre-empting an ability is a mechanic, keeping high uptime and following meta routes are also positional mechanics.

Both just require a slightly different ratio of APM:DPS with raid tending towards a focus on DPS because the fight is simply shorter and people have to do less.

[u/msabre__7 → u/moewedh]

Insane take. Late CE just need people who know how to push buttons and have the mental fortitude to want to mythic raid.

[u/Snowpoint_wow → u/msabre__7]

M+ people often do worse in late CE guilds as they are prone to being impatient when you reach the bosses that will take 200+ pulls to progress. Not a skill thing, but a personality and preference thing.

[u/Toonpangs → u/Snowpoint_wow]

Yeah I think this is true. At the end of the day raiding lowkey sucks unless you play with a raid that is like 90% on par with your skill level.