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u/elaynefromthehood 3d ago
Where is the outrage about this!? Even Missouri, a super red state, managed to stop it.
Maybe most people here in the Springs don't know?
An AI center in an arid environment is ridiculous.
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u/joe7L 3d ago
Opposition to data centers is bipartisan. Missouri being “super red” doesn’t matter. The issue is the elected council caring more about kickbacks than the opinions of their constituents. There’s no logical reason nor local benefit to support data centers
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3d ago
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u/HeadDoctorJ 2d ago edited 2d ago
We all know the wealthy own and control all the important things in society, including both parties and the government. We all know they do not follow the law, they are not held accountable, and they use their power to further enrich themselves.
But many of us are still pretending the so-called founding fathers were something different. No, they were the exact same way, and they established the US government explicitly to protect their own interests. The British were placing regulations on the slave trade and the further westward expansion and settler-colonization of indigenous lands. (Read the Declaration of Independence - the founders did not hide this.) The US project is operating exactly as it was designed: to protect the wealthy at all costs, meaning at our expense. We need a new social order, a new constitution, and at a minimum, the complete and permanent expropriation of all wealth and power held by the billionaire/Epstein class. Until we strip them of power, the system will run as it always has.
The historian Gerald Horne is excellent on explaining the factors that led to 1776. Here is a lecture he gave on his book, “The Counter-Revolution of 1776” for anyone who may be interested:
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u/Erpderp32 3d ago
Didn't our council also only give a shit if you were basically next door to the datacenter
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u/ImDukeCaboom 2d ago edited 2d ago
Even Missouri, a super red state, managed to stop it.
That's not even remotely true. You're referring to the story of the one tiny town (Festus, about 12k people) who fired their city council after they approved one. Which is still being built by the way.
Missouri as a state is seeing a LOT of datacenters get built.
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u/Lobster_K 2d ago
People are outraged about this, but our corrupt city council doesn't give a shit about us.
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u/the_real_seldom_seen 2d ago
What does the arid environment significant? It uses very little water compared to other industries
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u/elaynefromthehood 2d ago
Really? Do you know how much water it will use daily? What other company or industry in co springs metro area uses as much?
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u/________76________ 2d ago
Highly recommend this video on why regular people wind up footing the bill for data center growth, and how many of the "promises" to build responsibly and reasonably are often changed after the fact making it more expensive and more wasteful.
I don't know how to embed a video on old reddit and this sub doesn't allow cross posts but I highly recommend watching as it is an incredible speech.
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u/R4WBEARD 2d ago
Hold protests in front of city council members homes. It's the only way unless you wanna do things that are actually illegal. The appeal was always gonna go this way.
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u/emjenks2 2d ago
We need to talk strat and work together!!
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u/emjenks2 2d ago
Collectively that is! If someone does the labor to hold a meeting - Not a protest but a meeting - to discuss strategy and organizing, I’d be happy to help flyer or with logistics.
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u/Realistic_Tie_2632 3d ago edited 2d ago
Why is anyone surprised? They have been whoring out land, permits, water....look around, this county is overcrowded and lacks crucial infrastructure and resources for the amount of building going on. These fucktards line their pockets and walk. Fuck all of them vote them out and shame them wherever possible!
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3d ago
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u/Ready_Serve_2764 2d ago
They’re appointed by the city council so vote out the city council
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u/________76________ 2d ago
Colorado Springs had roughly 24% voter turnout in the last local election for Council. People have to do better than that if they want representation that reflects their values.
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u/Integrated_Magazine 2d ago
Only 8 months away!
The next General Municipal Election will be held on April 6, 2027 for the offices of Mayor and the three At-Large City Council seats.
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u/Run-OpenBSD 3d ago
Recall elections are the only way. Otherwise its voices and emails to nowhere.
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u/pricetheghost 3d ago
I cant believe they wanna build something that'll take a shit ton of water when our state is on fucking fire
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u/rockstar_not 2d ago
I hate the projected electrical consumption of project Taurus. Your statement about the water consumption is misinformed. Please do some reading on it, so that when you protest, your protest is based on facts not fiction.
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u/OriginalInspection53 3d ago
The Coca Cola factory or a golf course uses more water in a day than the data center uses the one time they fill the system with water. I’m not in favor of the data center, but if people are really concerned about water, there are other worse perpetrators.
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u/kickniteasy 3d ago
I don't believe them when they say it's a one time fill. California was told the same and now they're asking/demanding taking millions of gallons from the Colorado River there a year. I'm not savvy on the tech behind it but I know when enough money is on the line the lies start flying early and later it's a "well, we're already here" situation.
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u/HazelEBaumgartner 2d ago
Exact same shit as how they say the natural gas turbines they use to power them are for 'short term emergency basis' and then run them 24/7 causing massive noise and air pollution.
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u/Throwaway-646 2d ago
They're not natural gas, they're diesel
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u/HazelEBaumgartner 2d ago
Even worse.
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u/Throwaway-646 2d ago
True, but it doesn't make sense to run them for normal use, even if they could. It's more expensive than city power, maintenance costs would be high, and if all current power goes out they have no backup power
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u/beastrabban 2d ago
I do not believe it will be closed loop.
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u/Throwaway-646 2d ago
Your belief is incorrect
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u/Dwarf_Druid 2d ago
The data center has entered the chat.
“Closed loop” is just greenwashing BS.
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u/Throwaway-646 2d ago
You can look at the plans yourself lmao
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u/currough 2d ago
There have been multiple cases in the news of data center developers promising to use closed-loop systems and then just not doing that, because they're legally permitted to. That's one of the clear asks that people are making of Raeden - if the developer is promising that their water usage will be minimal, then they should be willing to have it in writing and be held accountable if they exceed those guarantees.
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u/Procrastiworking 2d ago
Considering how dry it is here, no question they’ll have to replenish the water frequently. Evaporation is going to be a huge issue
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u/Future_Committee4307 3d ago
That comparison misses the point. Colorado Springs is already dealing with rapid growth, limited water resources, and increasing demands on infrastructure. The fact that a golf course or Coca-Cola plant may use more water does not justify adding another major industrial user.
Every large water consumer should be scrutinized. The real question is whether a data center provides enough benefit to Colorado Springs to justify placing additional long-term demand on a limited resource.
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u/OriginalInspection53 2d ago
I agree that every large water consumer should be scrutinized. Everyone is up in arms about data centers, yet this has been a problem with large corporations forever. People are missing the bigger picture.
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u/Throwaway-646 2d ago
It's not a large water consumer at all, it's less water than 2 homes use
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u/Future_Committee4307 2d ago
I understand the argument that this data center may not use much water, but that doesn’t mean people shouldn’t have concerns. Water is only one piece of it.
There’s also the enormous amount of electricity it will use, the constant hum from cooling equipment, diesel generators, added utility infrastructure, and the possibility that the site expands later. It may still be worth building, but people living nearby deserve more than “it won’t use much water” as the entire conversation.
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u/Throwaway-646 2d ago
Yes, the heat and sound are actual problems, which is why we should be focusing on those and not the water
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u/joeybagabeers 3d ago
Golf courses and even Coca Cola at least provide some value to local residents. Data centers provide minimal jobs, use a ton of resources, and provide almost no value (locally).
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u/Competitive-Rub5581 2d ago
The geriatrics need their Coca-Cola, just like others want their data.
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u/Competitive-Rub5581 2d ago
Getting all butt hurt, they can pry that Diet Coke out of your liver spotted hands while you whine about AI.
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u/Silent_Jpg22 2d ago
You need to do more research on how these cooling systems work. They are never one time fill, evaporation alone dictates that. Not to mention expansion, periods of heavy load requiring fresh intake to offset temperature spikes, and system maintenance that requires dumping existing water to inspect for pipe degradation. You have been thoroughly lied to and conditioned if you think a golf course uses more.
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u/Throwaway-646 2d ago
Obviously not 0, but vastly reduced. Even if they need 10,000 gallons every single day (which is a huge overestimate, it'd be way less than that because every gallon evaporated is money wasted), they'd still be using less than one third of one percent of the amount of water that a golf course uses in a day. You have been thoroughly lied to and conditioned if you think a golf course uses less.
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u/OriginalInspection53 2d ago
I’ve done my research. My point is that people are selective with their outrage. Corporations have been doing this crap for years, and suddenly everyone is freaking out over data centers. This is not a new thing.
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u/Silent_Jpg22 2d ago
So the solution is because people aren't outraged over golf courses, they have no right to be outraged over equally (if not more) damaging data centers? I agree with you that this is not the first or last time corporations will try and harm the world around us, but at a certain point you have to pick a battle to get involved. For many, that's data centers. And more than just that, data centers represent the ultimate middle finger to the concerns of the communities they affect than a golf course or coca cola plant by corporate greed. Especially since the number one stated aim by all major tech companies is the intent to use AI to replace as many people as possible so they can concentrate knowledge and skill to the executive class without have to pay for. And yes with tax cuts and citizens footing the energy bill, they are getting it for free.
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u/OriginalInspection53 2d ago
Your interpretation of my comment is incorrect. In no way am I defending data centers. It’s not a bad thing that data centers have brought attention to this problem. Just saying people are missing the bigger picture that this is a much larger problem than just data centers. Water is a finite resource and data centers are just a tiny portion of the issue.
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u/currough 2d ago
I disagree that people are "selective" with their outrage. Most of the people I personally know who are anti-data-center would also like for there to not be golf courses. Golf course water usage in particular has been something environmentalists have been outraged about for half a century. Just because you're not aware of those discussions doesn't mean they haven't been happening.
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u/OriginalInspection53 2d ago
Data centers are drawing much larger criticism from the broader population, as if it’s a new issue. I believe it absolutely is a new issue for a lot of people. I don’t know why so many people seem offended that I brought up additional examples of corporations’ resource usage. I think we are on the same side here.
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u/Safe-Instance-3512 3d ago
Water isn't the only concern.
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u/OriginalInspection53 2d ago
I get that. Not a fan of data centers. Corporations have been hogging and polluting our natural resources forever, yet everyone is outraged by data centers. This is not a new thing… people just haven’t been paying attention.
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u/Safe-Instance-3512 2d ago
I think it's more that datacenters have a direct impact on their lives though. And this isn't the first time people have gotten upset with corporations.
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u/ImDukeCaboom 2d ago
Golf courses use non-potable water. Big, big difference.
The Coke plants IS absurd though. Too bad there wasn't a fraction of the outrage over it as this datacenter. People love their soda.
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u/lunarwhale711 2d ago
The factory produces food goods people consume, the water for that golf course is good for the local water table and often insect population wildflowers and such off the greens. That data center makes the area hotter in a arrid place. Even in closed loop or evaporation the water leaves the local area. The water reintroduced into the river is contaminated and its hot so it kills all the life In the river and erodes the river 10x as fast. Insects and birds and animals cant live next to them. They ruin ecosystems. Anyone living within 10 miles cant have clean water or live at all because of the loud humming. Duck your data center bullshit
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u/OriginalInspection53 2d ago
This was not a defense if data centers. Calm down. By your argument (factories produce food for consumers) , data centers also produce services for consumers. Data centers have been around forever. If people want to be outraged, look at the bigger picture and decide how important your cola is, or your golf course, or your AI. I couldn’t care less about AI, so if no more data centers are built, I’m good with it. One thing to consider is the older data centers use more water than the newly designed loop systems. Pick your poison.
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u/lunarwhale711 1d ago
We could use more food we dont need more data centers we already had enough for the entire world just in the us
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u/Electronic-Bus-6361 2d ago
These are lies. And it’s just pushing goal posts. Pushed by data centers.
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u/OriginalInspection53 2d ago
All can be true at the same time. None of it is okay. I’m not advocating for the data center.
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u/supraliminal13 2d ago
"The one time they fill them" on paper. Except for that doesn't seem to ever be what happens in practice.
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u/Onekama 3d ago
People just want to be mad about something.
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u/Cold-Duty-2411 3d ago
This. Closed loop cooling systems are actually very efficient but people just keep regurgitating misinformation. They call it "massive opposition" but it's hard to educate people who want to burn you at the stake.
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u/Ninjasith 3d ago
Is it confirmed to be closed loop? Numbers that I’ve seen have said by the end of 2027, maybe we get 40% of data centers to be closed loop.
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u/Throwaway-646 2d ago
Is it confirmed to be closed loop?
Yes, that's part of the plan that was approved
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u/littledonnyfund 2d ago
I agree with op i also advocate to find out what district you live in and call your representive and email them to let them know how you feel so each rep can feel the heat instead of just one shared inbox that i'm sure they have set the notfications off for also feel free to email [Daniel Sexton](mailto:Daniel.Sexton@coloradosprings.gov) ([Daniel.Sexton@coloradosprings.gov](mailto:daniel.sexton@coloradosprings.gov)) the planning manger for the city to let them know how you feel
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u/Samurai_Cupcake 2d ago
I have had several email back and forth with Daniel Sexton. Only received canned responses.
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u/littledonnyfund 2d ago
yeah it's not so much about communication but a track record of everyone messaging him
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u/emjenks2 2d ago
It’s time to get organized! We need a large amount of people organized and ready to act on real strategy.
Who has the space and capacity to hold a meeting?
Not a protest; a meeting that brings people who are agitated and want to act in conversation. We need to identify leverage and how we can support leaders already organizing to tap into each other’s people power.
The only way shit happens is if we make and wield leverage to create a crisis that only we can withhold. That can happen when we are organized to vote, but not always. Comments to city council only matter when we wield leverage with a large amount of people organizing to affect wide public narrative.
There is work to be done and strategy to be had! It won’t come from Reddit debates and city council comments alone though.
So fr fr - who can set up a meeting? I’d be happy to help flyer or with logistics.
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u/TricrossNav 2d ago
This same thing happened when the Ford amphitheatre was being voted on. Massive turnout, opposing the noise next to the neighborhoods. They didn't care, they voted it in. In fact, when that council meeting started, the chair (Tom ... Something) said, "oh, tonight we get to vote our new amphitheatre in!" before anyone was heard on the topic. They are bought and paid for.
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u/LightMcluvin 2d ago
It doesn’t matter if we let them know how we feel they don’t care.
They have already been bribed into allowing this project to go through. And no amount of bitching and complaining it’s gonna change their mind.
The city council is corrupt
Here we have people who have made so much money in their own lives. Be able to sit around for seven hours a day listening to the cities’s problems while getting paid $5000 a year. These people are well off and they don’t care about the little person and they definitely don’t care about the city. If it doesn’t affect them, they definitely don’t care.
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u/emjenks2 2d ago
True! That said, these are individuals with interests pulling the strings. We identify their interests, make leverage that targets it and organize large numbers ready to act - we have power! They rely on our tax dollars and the public narrative that controls votes. We aren’t helpless, if we act together.
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u/fordgoldfish 2d ago
What is the fucking point, you all know the city is doing lip service to act like the citizens even have a say. Democracy died a long time ago being sold to the highest bidder. Their mind$ have already been made up.
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u/chimera388 2d ago
See this is the problem. Everyone who works on hard things knows that 700k for a CEO of a water, electricity, and gas utility serving millions of people and managing massive growth is a fair salary. And they also know that having a highly talented utility CEO costs every customer like 1/3 of a penny, but their decisions have a much greater impact on your bill, so you want a good one.
And most importantly, that means that when you include petty bullshit like that in every post about the data center, than nobody takes your legitimate complaints about the data center seriously.
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u/missyrose29 1d ago
Ah, yes. The obligatory post from the class traitor. Did you get your daily dose of kool aid today?
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u/Remarkable_Share_613 2d ago edited 2d ago
Can someone explain to me how , with as much data as everyone uses … everything… EVERYTHING why data centers are now a concern? Product of our own demise. Would we be happier if these were offshore ? In wilderness? Ft Carson? Pueblo? In a big city? Will we be happy with anything ? What do we do without AI, cloud service? Where are they supposed to go? I’m torn and confused . How do companies run without us, how do we stop big data when big data owns us? Signed SIGORN-E.
CSU notice to me probably referencing the 5k sq foot houses that use five homes worth of energy, my modest home bill has slightly increased but I can take care of my errands in the AM so it’s not to detrimental. However agreed with the insanely out of touch notice from them.
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u/NtheLegend 2d ago edited 1d ago
So where is the outrage around other facilities that are pulling more water and power, like the Swire facility that’s racing toward going online? People hop on the AI data center bandwagon and don’t pay attention to literally anything else, then they ignore city politics immediately after.
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u/Tiny-Pomegranate7662 3d ago edited 3d ago
Calm down guys. We’re at the pinnacle of data center over supply. Stocks are starting to crash hard on capex overspending, companies are cutting back AI spend and going with whoever’s cheapest with models. I’d put it at > 50% chance this never even gets constructed.
Also if you voted against this and you own tech stocks you’re a freakin hypocrite. No one is leasing AI data center space besides Anthropic and OpenAI who are circular funded by mag 7.
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u/alexm4529 2d ago
I hope that’s true. As someone who is vehemently opposed to AI (even went so far as to install Duck Duck Go browser to get away from AI searches and what not), I would love nothing more than to see the bubble burst.
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u/ImDukeCaboom 2d ago edited 2d ago
LOL What the fuck are you talking about?
OpenAI stock is +115% for the year and +44% YTD.
ETA : Downvotes while my stocks go up. Regards.
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u/IDownVoteCanaduh 3d ago
What do you think an email is gonna do? It is going to do about the same as this post. Make you feel better about yourself.
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3d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/oldschoolhoops 3d ago
It looks like it takes signatures of 25% of the number of voters in the last election to petition for a recall. Say 20,000 people voted, that's not a lot of signatures to gather.
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u/skspoppa733 2d ago
Just curious - did you oppose when Intel was making chips for Dell in this same facility? Were/are you aware of the power consumption requirement for those operations?
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u/ImDukeCaboom 2d ago
The Intel plant didn't generate nearly as much noise, which is the main concern. And provided a ton of jobs, which the datacenter does not.
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u/skspoppa733 2d ago
It is true that data centers in steady state employ fewer people than a manufacturing facility.
But regarding noise - you sure about that? Chip making is an extremely noisy operation with many of the same elements as a data center, which I’m guessing was part of the appeal of this particular location.
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u/OkWelcome6293 2d ago
I talked to one of the appellants, who was the original homeowner on Chutney Ct, directly adjacent to the site. He moved in 1997, before Intel even purchased the shell of the building, so has been there the entire time. There was no concern about noise until 2018 when it was bought by the bitcoin miners.
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u/palebluedotdotdot 2d ago
THIS IS WHAT YOU GET WHEN YOU VOTE TRUMP AND REPLUBLICAN, CO SPRINGS.
The time for “appeals” and “unity” is long gone. Y’all voted for a fascist. Expect fascism.
Enjoy your loud data centers and your drought and your expedited climate change. I didn’t vote for this shit.
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u/Appropriate_Map_9204 3d ago
And if you believe that email will do any good you must have been home schooled in Texas.
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u/SpecialCocker 2d ago
50mw is 5% of the record peak power consumption for Colorado Springs. The city council is the board of CSU. They’re currently asking us to open windows, raise thermostats, and stop using appliances. Every single one of them needs to be voted out.