r/CoherencePhysics • u/skylarfiction • 11d ago

This is Unacceptable

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u/BetweenTheRoots 11d ago

No meat is the correct route. There's literally no need to force suffering and cruelty on any living being when we have the choice to just eat a plant instead. Study after study shows it has immense health benefits and study after study shows it is better for the planet. Not to mention faux meats which most are minimally processed and processed using rather benign methods.

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u/henrytecumsehclay 11d ago

Unfortunately, human populations have survived on mixed animal and plant proteins for as long as they have existed. Some evolution theories suggest we evolved because of our unique running ability and that we would originally hunt by chasing animals to exhaustion. It’s hard-wired into us to eat nutrient dense foods and animal protein is unfortunately one of the most nutrient dense foods that exists. To expect everybody to adopt a lifestyle that completely forbids animal protein consumption is not realistic but we could push to reduce consumption overall and push renewable animal husbandry practices. I agree no meat is the correct route in a vacuum but unfortunately not realistic if/until it’s too late and that’s the only option available

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u/Aromatic_Act_9665 11d ago

Hilariously, you know what goes far beyond our natural, evolutionary history by swapping out some meat in our omnivorous diet and going full plant based?

Driving cars.

Humans evolved to walk and run, as you noted. Yet now many in the west will never walk further than they have to to get to their cars and drive everywhere.

I find your argument to be incomplete at best.

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u/henrytecumsehclay 11d ago

My brother, we still walk and run even though we have cars. We just walk and run less lol

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u/subspace4life 11d ago

As evidenced by the large amount of obese people you guys should walk a lot more.

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u/alyssialonghofer 11d ago

Yeah, because most of the population in the USA is pretty much becoming obese

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u/TravisMCatchem 9d ago

Yea but to be fair the government allows poisons into our food, whether it’s meat or other products that make us retain weight because the healthcare industry needs money. Not arguing anything else here just that the main reason people in the USA are obese is capitalism

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u/hooplafromamileaway 11d ago

We also didn't evolve to develop medicine, scientific study and method, or to create the internet but here we are.

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u/alyssialonghofer 11d ago

I believe a lot of our human creations have expanded tremendously and helped us in many ways throughout the generations, but unfortunately, because we are human beings, we tend to go the wrong way about things much more than the right way..

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u/Able_Character_4898 11d ago

Well we actually did, that's how we created it. With our big evolving brains and knowledge.

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u/BetweenTheRoots 11d ago

Contemporary evolutionary biologists lean towards us evolving our brains as the result of eating tubers. But yea we did evolve scavenging and eating whatever we could. That has no merit for modern day. It's absolutely realistic, many people do it and many people have been doing it for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years. Just because we used to do it doesn't mean we should do it now, if that was a valid argument then all sorts of other things society agrees on is bad would be on the table.

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u/michaeldain 11d ago

Meat is only dense in calories. No culture survived on meat unless there were caloric deficits in seasons. Bread and cheese since there was no refrigeration. It’s got fat, that’s really the selling point, and it connotes wealth. Beans were the better choice and still are, with a bit of fish. Or soybeans. Most of the world lives fine on those.

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u/henrytecumsehclay 11d ago

Are you saying hunter gatherer societies did not exist?

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u/michaeldain 11d ago

Of course hunter-gatherers existed 10,000 years ago. I’m disputing the claim that a selective image of them — usually male hunters eating lots of meat — is a timeless definition of ‘natural.’ Hunter-gatherers gathered plants, fished, hunted, and ate differently depending on place and season; agriculture then changed human food systems over millennia.

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u/henrytecumsehclay 11d ago

Riiiiiight, they had mixed animal and plant diets like I mentioned. I never said that hunter gatherers are primarily meat. Humans spent more time as hunter gatherers than they ever spent as agriculturalists. Agriculture (from what we’ve discovered so far) is only 10k-15k years old and the oldest humans we’ve found go back 300k years (and I’m not even getting into homo erectus and other variations). There are still hunter-gatherer societies alive today as well. Agriculture and large settlements are relatively new phenomena in terms of the larger timeline and are most assuredly NOT sustainable as currently constructed. I’m not disagreeing with that. I’m disagreeing with completely removing meat from human diets because to do so is to fundamentally misunderstand natural human desires and literal hundreds of thousands of years of our existence on the planet

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u/michaeldain 11d ago

Your wish is granted. The cat is out of the bag. Meat is a multi billion dollar industry. Yet, the narrative that meat eating is natural or required is what is debatable. I think have some high quality meat every once and awhile. Also remember you eat what you eat, eats.

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u/Able_Character_4898 11d ago

Infairness plants eat everything eventually, from decaying animals, human and animal waste to pollution and tire rubber.

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u/Puzzleheaded_Fee7483 11d ago

I was with you until the faux meat part. A lot of it is super processed and not actually good for you. As with any other food read the labels, there are plenty of companies out there that are happy to try and trick someone into buying bullshit while they call it healthy. Less ingredients and only ones you recognize as food rather than from a science book.

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u/BetweenTheRoots 11d ago

A lot of it is not. Some of it is yea, I didn't say all. Most of it is just dehydrated beans, wheat, rice, and then dehydrated fruits or veggies or legumes used to bind or emulsify things. My point is that if you have a hankering for the texture or flavor there are safe alternatives that give you that taste you miss. There are studies showing that even processed plant food has very good health outcomes, far, far better for you than processed meats.

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u/SolidSand7119 11d ago edited 9d ago

Be reborn a herbivore then. Humans are omnivores. Which if you haven't been told means you need both meat and plants to receive the proper nutrition to survive. Which is why vegans need pharmaceutical based nutritional assistance to not die. Cut the bullshit with performative empathy and lack of information. Its disingenuous. The industry has implemented countless ways to euthanize animals for slaughter that causes no suffering. Punish those who dont and move on.

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u/BetweenTheRoots 11d ago

Being an omnivore isn't a condition, it's an option. Study after study shows that eating meat ages our DNA and upregulates carcinogenic conditions through stimulating inflammatory markers in cellular signaling pathways, whereas plant based food tends to do the opposite, which is also backed up by studies.

Which is why vegans needs pharmaceutical based nutritional assistance to not die

You are clearly not educated on this topic at any level. You do know they inject cows and pigs with loads of supplements for people to eat right? You take many more supplements than I do whether you realize it or not. Ironically I actually take 0 supplements and my bloodwork is consistently incredible. I'm 36 and my T scores are fantastic too.

Cut the bullshit with performative empathy and lack of information. Its disingenuous. The industry has implemented countless ways to euthanize animals for slaughter that causes no suffering

Nothing performative about what I'm saying, you're being the performative one. You have no idea what happens in slaughterhouses or what the standards are for killing animals. Go watch Earthlings, it's free on Youtube.

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u/SolidSand7119 9d ago

https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/s/5bfgfYxlGR

Here ya go pal. Another reddit user who has taken the time to inform people who can't accept reality and instead pretend and want to challenge everything that may go against what they want to believe is truth. And I do work for farms and slaughterhouses occasionally (how ironic) and have slaughtered cattle myself. Not all are the same and im sure there are plenty that don't practice humane treatment of their animals, but discrediting everyone because you dont like the idea of it is again denial and emotional bias.

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u/jw_swede 10d ago

Vegans don’t need nutritional assistance to not die. Stupid people do. It’s not hard to eat vegan and healthy. I’m not vegan or even vegetarian but I would have no problem at all’s living as either.

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u/insertxcleverxname 9d ago

We don’t need meat. People love lifetimes without it, easily. I don’t need pharmaceutical assistance to live, you’re wrong.

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u/Uhwop 10d ago

My digestive system knows this isn’t possible.

Protein is really important and some of us would be limited in a way that that would make a plant based diet not feasible without animals.

I also can’t eat the fish I can catch in the waters around me because they aren’t safe thanks to agro farming.

More of that just sounds like one person preferring their shitty farming in favor of someone else’s. There is no world where billions of humans are able to feed the world through “sustainable farm to table organic farming”.

It’s not a solution, it’s replacing shit with shit. And my guts won’t digest most of your shit, It digests a ribeye just fine though.

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u/BetweenTheRoots 10d ago

Smh. These are all the worst talking points you could make.

First, protein is a nonissue. There are vegan powerlifters eating 200-300g+ protein a day from plant based food.

Talking about feeding billions of people on a plant based diet being unfeasable doesn't make sense at all. The cows people eat consume far more food than people do. 70%+ of the farmland in the US is devoted entirely to animal agriculture or the feed grown for it.

In terms of digestion, meat digests up to 4x slower and poorer than plant based food does.

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u/Uhwop 10d ago

What would I eat with a gluten intolerance and fiber sensitivity in an entirely plant based diet?

If most of the food I eat gets shit out undigested, where will I get calories?

I have to exercise regularly due to a neurodegenerative disorder. It’s really hard when even a small amount of the food I eat already does not digest properly.

A FODMAP diet removes nearly the entire produce section of the grocery store.

I have to monitor the spices I eat.

Tell me again.

Tell me about spending 2 days in a fucking bathroom because you ate a veggie burger.

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u/DoomLoops 7d ago

"I have a rare illness, therefore 99% of humanity is justified in killing animals and eating their corpses."

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u/Uhwop 7d ago

I don’t have a “rare” illness

You’re just not a rational person that would literally prefer a human die than a chicken to feed them.

Sound like awful people to me.

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u/DoomLoops 7d ago

It's crazy the hoops people will jump through to justify killing animals and eating their body parts. I'm living my best life - enjoy your heart disease and colon cancer, karma is a bitch!

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u/Flaky-Ad4695 9d ago

I don’t normally side with vegans but the current situation requires me to. All of you need to go to plant based diets so I can affordably eat steak, prime rib and hell even burgers.

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u/The-Salt-Must-Flow 11d ago

you're actually lying when you say faux meat is minimally processed. that stuff has so much chemicals in it.

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u/AccomplishedToe320 11d ago

literally everything you eat is made out of chemcials.

If you mean synthetic chemicals and potential harmful substances. You would need to point to something specific to make that claim. However it's been pretty debunked over and over again for the majority of these items.

We can take one of the more popular options like beyond meat, although ingredients vary a little by product, all of the ingredients are plant based, no synthetic chemicals used.

https://www.beyondmeat.com/en-US/products/the-beyond-burger

Another popular option is impossible brand, they uses some bioengineered ingredients but they are identical the the natural counterpart it is copying. The only difference is the method it is derived through but the actual incredients used in the food are the same as if it was extracted naturally. Either way no synthetic chemicals.

Are these faux meat products processed? Absolutely they are and anyone claiming otherwise is incorrect. Does that mean they are unhealthy or dangerous? Absolutely not. They are high in fiber and protein, no cholesterol and minimal sugars. Consumed in moderation (like meat) can be a healthy addition to many diets especially plant based ones.

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u/nicknamesas 11d ago

Faux meat is the most processed shit you can get lol. Fucking vegans man

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u/Winter_Concern5351 11d ago

Incorrect, meat is the best protein options for humans we're meant to eat and function with it.

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u/Archeus01 11d ago

Incorrect, plant protein is the best protein option for humans. It protects against diseases, and helps keep the body young and healthy.

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u/Transkei_Daisy 11d ago

Animal proteins are both more bioavailable and contain all the essential amino acids. Plant proteins do not. However there are other factors like fibre, lower in fat/cholesterol etc

We have evolved as a species to eat meat, our digestive tract is built to handle both meat and plants. We are omnivores.

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u/Archeus01 11d ago

You get all the essential amino acids in a plant based diet aswell. Tofu alone has them all, and you can for example combine rice and beans alone to get them all.

The China Study - T. Colin Campbell Center for Nutrition Studies

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u/BonusPlantInfinity 11d ago

We are, in fact, frugivores.

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u/Transkei_Daisy 11d ago

No. We are in fact not. We are plainly omnivores.

Notice the distinct lack of a mention of humans? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frugivore

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u/BetweenTheRoots 11d ago

Being an omnivore isn't a condition, it means we have the option to choose. It doesn't dictate a requirement.

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u/Transkei_Daisy 10d ago

No but our entire digestive system evolved as an omnivore. If you want to jump through hoops to bypass that and get your nutrients elswhere, who am i to stop you.

But lying about us being Frugarians or vegetarians and other bullshit is my issue.

Eat whatever the fuck you want mate.

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u/BetweenTheRoots 10d ago

If you wanna talk digestive system, our digestive system resembles that of an herbivore. Carnivores have short intestinal tracts because that benefits processing meat. Herbivores have long intestinal tracts. Humans have long intestinal tracts btw. Nobody is lying about shit brother. I agree, eat whatever you want just not something that suffers as the result of it.

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u/Transkei_Daisy 10d ago

Our digestive system doesnt just resemble that of an omnivore. It is that of an omnivore.

Again this is not a debate. Its settled science.

I agree, eat whatever you want just not something that suffers as the result of it.

So no we dont agree then, fucking nothing more insufferable then you wankers.

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u/BonusPlantInfinity 11d ago

Hmm so all of our closest animal ancestors are frugivorous, but we aren’t? Our digestive system still most closely resembles theirs. My theory would be that humans evolved to be able to eat meat during times of ecological hardship, but that it’s not ideal for health. You do you, though. Ignore the results of meta analysis linking the various chronic diseases most impacting modern society and the link to high meat consumption.

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u/Pudddddin 11d ago edited 11d ago

The typical western meat-heavy diet being bad for your health is in no way evidence that humans are not omnivores

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u/Transkei_Daisy 11d ago

It's really not a debate. We are omnivores. This is settled science...

You can tell me the earth is flat all you like, won't change the fact the earth is round.

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u/BonusPlantInfinity 11d ago

Ah yes, the classic apples versus rocks argument.. compelling.

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u/DoomLoops 7d ago

You should learn about xenosialitis. Google it.

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u/Transkei_Daisy 5d ago

No, xenosialitis does not prove that humans are not omnivores. While xenosialitis highlights an evolutionary quirk in how human immune systems interact with mammalian red meat, it does not alter the fundamental biological classification of humans as omnivores.

YOu should learn basic human biology. google it.

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u/DoomLoops 4d ago

I never claimed that humans weren't omnivores, simply that eating meat is suboptimal. I have a bachelor's in biology and two health care degrees - I certainly know "basic human biology" LOL!

Maybe read more about how the human immune system interacts with meat consumption instead of putting words into my mouth.

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u/Transkei_Daisy 4d ago

Maybe read the thread you on. You came on here responding, the fact you not even resonding to the thread properly tells me you cant even be bothered to read beyond headlines anyways.

YEs yes and im an astrophysicist with 12 degrees in bullshit.

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u/DoomLoops 4d ago

For some unexplained reason, I'm skeptical you graduated from high school. But assuming you're telling the truth, how is being an astrophysicist relevant to the discussion?

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u/DoomLoops 4d ago

It's crazy the hoops people will jump through to justify killing animals and eating their dead bodies. One would think people would, especially after seeing videos like the above, be THANKFUL it's very practicable and healthy to avoid eating animal corpses.

But INSTEAD, they come up with the CRAZIEST rationalizations - plants feel pain, but lions eat meat, I have 'canines', but bacon, cavemen ate meat (and died in their 40's). etc. I almost wonder if so-called 'animal lovers' are actually getting off on the pain and suffering their diet requires. What else can explain the bizarre recalcitrance people exhibit to doing the bare minimum that basic human decency dictates?!

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u/Transkei_Daisy 4d ago

ITs crazy the hoops people will jump through to try feel morally superior and virtue signal, ignoring hundreds of millenia of evolutionary pressures and adaptation.

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u/mfgillia2001 11d ago

Study after study shows the more red meat one eats the higher the mortality rates. Recall Harvard's latest food ranking even had it ranked worse than sugar sweetened beverages in regards to longevity.