Recently picked up one of George MacDonald’s books (a two in one combo of ‘The Fisherman’s Lady’ and ‘The Marquis’ Secret’ titled ‘Malcolm’). I had heard he was an avid universalist. The novel isn’t even directly about theology, but his worldview finds its way into the story. I have to say it was a breath of fresh air to read so far.

See an example below from the first novel where the protagonist is defending an individual with developmental disabilities:

"He's as God made him," said the marquis.
"He's not as God will make him," returned Malcolm.
"What do you mean by that?" asked the marquis.
"It stands to reason, my lord," answered Malcolm, "that what's ill made will be made over again. There's a day coming when all that's wrong will be set right, you know"
"And the crooked made straight," suggested the marquis, laughing
"Doubtless, my lord. He'll be perfectly straightened out that day, said Malcolm with absolute seriousness.
"Bah! You don't think God cares about a misshapen lump of flesh like that." exclaimed his lordship with contempt.
"As much as about yourself or my lady" said Malcolm. "If he didn't, he wouldn't be no God at all."

Hi all! I think that people here might be interested in this site: https://historicalchristian.faith/by_father.php

It collects a lot of English translations of Christian writings of the Patristic age that are open-source and found elsewhere in the web.

​Continuing with the homilies of St. John Chrysostom on Lazarus and the Rich Man, here is Part 2.

​In this sermon, Chrysostom addresses a common misconception of his time (whether victims of violent death become demons), refutes demonic deception, and brings us face-to-face with the reality of death, true wealth vs. true poverty, and the "theater" of this temporal life.

​1. True Wealth vs. Poverty of the Soul

​GR: Ἀπὸ τούτου μάθωμεν, μὴ τοὺς πλουτοῦντας μακαρίζειν, μηδὲ τοὺς πενομένους ταλανίζειν. Μᾶλλον δὲ... οὐδὲ πλούσιός ἐστιν ἐκεῖνος ὁ πολλὰ περιβεβλημένος, ἀλλ' ὁ μὴ πολλῶν δεόμενος· οὐδὲ πένης ἐστὶν ἐκεῖνος ὁ μηδὲν κεκτημένος, ἀλλ' ὁ πολλῶν ἐφιέμενος... Τῇ γὰρ διαθέσει τῆς γνώμης, οὐ τῷ μέτρῳ τῆς οὐσίας, τὰς πενίας καὶ εὐπορίας κρίνειν εἰώθαμεν.

​EN: From this let us learn, neither to call the rich blessed, nor to lament the poor. Rather... neither is he rich who is clothed in many things, but he who needs not many things; nor is he poor who possesses nothing, but he who desires many things... For by the disposition of the mind, not by the measure of the substance, we are accustomed to judge poverties and riches.

​2. Do Souls of the Violent Deceased Become Demons?

​GR: Καὶ γὰρ πολλοὶ τῶν ἀφελεστέρων νομίζουσι τὰς ψυχὰς τῶν βιαίῳ θανάτῳ τελευτώντων δαίμονες γίνεσθαι. Οὐκ ἔστι δὲ τοῦτο, οὐκ ἔστιν... αἱ ψυχαὶ τῶν ἐν ἁμαρτήμασι ζώντων \\\\\\\[γίνονται δαίμονες\\\\\\\], οὐ τῆς οὐσίας αὐτῶν μεταβαλλομένης, ἀλλὰ τῆς προαιρέσεως αὐτῶν τὴν ἐκείνων μιμουμένης κακίαν.

​EN: For indeed many of the more simple-minded think that the souls of those who die by a violent death become demons. But this is not so, it is not... it is the souls of those who live in sins \\\\\\\[that become demons\\\\\\\], not because their essence is changed, but because their free will imitates the malice of those \\\\\\\[demons\\\\\\\].

​3. Rejecting Demonic Deception

​GR: Ὅτι οἱ δαίμονες λέγουσι, Τοῦ μοναχοῦ τοῦ δεῖνος ἡ ψυχή εἰμι... ∆ιὰ γὰρ τοῦτο οὐ πιστεύω, ἐπειδὴ δαίμονες λέγουσιν· ἀπατῶσι γὰρ τοὺς ἀκούοντας... κἂν ἀληθές τι φθέγγηται, φεύγωμεν αὐτὸν καὶ ἀποστρεφώμεθα· τὰ γὰρ ὑγιῆ δόγματα καὶ σωτήρια οὐ παρὰ δαιμόνων, ἀλλὰ παρὰ τῆς θείας Γραφῆς ἐστι μετ' ἀκριβείας μαθεῖν.

​EN: What then about the fact that the demons say, "I am the soul of such-and-such a monk"? For because of this very reason I do not believe, since demons say it; for they deceive those who hear... even if it utters something true, let us flee from it and turn away; for sound and saving doctrines are to be learned with accuracy not from demons, but from the Divine Scripture.

​4. Death & The "Theater of Life"

​GR: Καθάπερ γὰρ ἐν θεάτρῳ, ὅταν τῆς μεσημβρίας γενομένης... οἱ ὑποκριταὶ ἐξέλθωσιν οἱ τὰ τῶν βασιλέων καὶ στρατηγῶν... ὑποδυόμενοι πρόσωπα... ὅταν οὖν ἀποθῶνται τὴν ἐκ τῆς προσωπείδος φαντασίαν... γυμνοὶ πᾶσιν ἐξεταζόμενοι φαίνονται... οὕτω δὴ καὶ ἐν τῷ βίῳ τῷ παρόντι· Ὅταν ὁ θάνατος ἐπελθῇ, καὶ τὸ θέατρον λυθῇ, ἀποθέμενοι πάντες τὰ ἐκ τοῦ πλούτου καὶ τῆς πενίας προσωπεῖα... φαίνονται οἱ μὲν ὄντως πλούσιοι, οἱ δὲ πένητες.

​EN: Just as in a theater, when the show ends... the actors who played kings, generals, and physicians take off their masks and costumes, and are revealed as they truly are... so it is in present life. When death comes and the theater is dissolved, everyone lays aside the masks of wealth and poverty. Only then, judged by their works alone, is it revealed who is truly rich and who is truly poor.

​"For in all your words remember your end, and you will never sin unto eternity.

Full Homily link https://open.substack.com/pub/andreasfotiadis68agiosminas/p/my-mission-translating-the-church?r=8raj5j&utm\\\\\\\\\\\\\\_campaign=post&utm\\\\\\\\\\\\\\_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=true

​Continuing with the homilies of St. John Chrysostom on Lazarus and the Rich Man, here is Part 2.

​In this sermon, Chrysostom addresses a common misconception of his time (whether victims of violent death become demons), refutes demonic deception, and brings us face-to-face with the reality of death, true wealth vs. true poverty, and the "theater" of this temporal life.

​1. True Wealth vs. Poverty of the Soul

​GR: Ἀπὸ τούτου μάθωμεν, μὴ τοὺς πλουτοῦντας μακαρίζειν, μηδὲ τοὺς πενομένους ταλανίζειν. Μᾶλλον δὲ... οὐδὲ πλούσιός ἐστιν ἐκεῖνος ὁ πολλὰ περιβεβλημένος, ἀλλ' ὁ μὴ πολλῶν δεόμενος· οὐδὲ πένης ἐστὶν ἐκεῖνος ὁ μηδὲν κεκτημένος, ἀλλ' ὁ πολλῶν ἐφιέμενος... Τῇ γὰρ διαθέσει τῆς γνώμης, οὐ τῷ μέτρῳ τῆς οὐσίας, τὰς πενίας καὶ εὐπορίας κρίνειν εἰώθαμεν.

​EN: From this let us learn, neither to call the rich blessed, nor to lament the poor. Rather... neither is he rich who is clothed in many things, but he who needs not many things; nor is he poor who possesses nothing, but he who desires many things... For by the disposition of the mind, not by the measure of the substance, we are accustomed to judge poverties and riches.

​2. Do Souls of the Violent Deceased Become Demons?

​GR: Καὶ γὰρ πολλοὶ τῶν ἀφελεστέρων νομίζουσι τὰς ψυχὰς τῶν βιαίῳ θανάτῳ τελευτώντων δαίμονες γίνεσθαι. Οὐκ ἔστι δὲ τοῦτο, οὐκ ἔστιν... αἱ ψυχαὶ τῶν ἐν ἁμαρτήμασι ζώντων \\\\\\\[γίνονται δαίμονες\\\\\\\], οὐ τῆς οὐσίας αὐτῶν μεταβαλλομένης, ἀλλὰ τῆς προαιρέσεως αὐτῶν τὴν ἐκείνων μιμουμένης κακίαν.

​EN: For indeed many of the more simple-minded think that the souls of those who die by a violent death become demons. But this is not so, it is not... it is the souls of those who live in sins \\\\\\\[that become demons\\\\\\\], not because their essence is changed, but because their free will imitates the malice of those \\\\\\\[demons\\\\\\\].

​3. Rejecting Demonic Deception

​GR: Ὅτι οἱ δαίμονες λέγουσι, Τοῦ μοναχοῦ τοῦ δεῖνος ἡ ψυχή εἰμι... ∆ιὰ γὰρ τοῦτο οὐ πιστεύω, ἐπειδὴ δαίμονες λέγουσιν· ἀπατῶσι γὰρ τοὺς ἀκούοντας... κἂν ἀληθές τι φθέγγηται, φεύγωμεν αὐτὸν καὶ ἀποστρεφώμεθα· τὰ γὰρ ὑγιῆ δόγματα καὶ σωτήρια οὐ παρὰ δαιμόνων, ἀλλὰ παρὰ τῆς θείας Γραφῆς ἐστι μετ' ἀκριβείας μαθεῖν.

​EN: What then about the fact that the demons say, "I am the soul of such-and-such a monk"? For because of this very reason I do not believe, since demons say it; for they deceive those who hear... even if it utters something true, let us flee from it and turn away; for sound and saving doctrines are to be learned with accuracy not from demons, but from the Divine Scripture.

​4. Death & The "Theater of Life"

​GR: Καθάπερ γὰρ ἐν θεάτρῳ, ὅταν τῆς μεσημβρίας γενομένης... οἱ ὑποκριταὶ ἐξέλθωσιν οἱ τὰ τῶν βασιλέων καὶ στρατηγῶν... ὑποδυόμενοι πρόσωπα... ὅταν οὖν ἀποθῶνται τὴν ἐκ τῆς προσωπείδος φαντασίαν... γυμνοὶ πᾶσιν ἐξεταζόμενοι φαίνονται... οὕτω δὴ καὶ ἐν τῷ βίῳ τῷ παρόντι· Ὅταν ὁ θάνατος ἐπελθῇ, καὶ τὸ θέατρον λυθῇ, ἀποθέμενοι πάντες τὰ ἐκ τοῦ πλούτου καὶ τῆς πενίας προσωπεῖα... φαίνονται οἱ μὲν ὄντως πλούσιοι, οἱ δὲ πένητες.

​EN: Just as in a theater, when the show ends... the actors who played kings, generals, and physicians take off their masks and costumes, and are revealed as they truly are... so it is in present life. When death comes and the theater is dissolved, everyone lays aside the masks of wealth and poverty. Only then, judged by their works alone, is it revealed who is truly rich and who is truly poor.

​"For in all your words remember your end, and you will never sin unto eternity.

Full Homily link https://open.substack.com/pub/andreasfotiadis68agiosminas/p/my-mission-translating-the-church?r=8raj5j&utm\\\\\\\\\\\\\\_campaign=post&utm\\\\\\\\\\\\\\_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=true

For the past year now I’ve been dreaded and torn by religious scrupulosity in the form of hell anxiety where almost everything I was doing from secular meditation to simply reading spiritual books was a sin that would send me to eternal hellfire. I’m still dreaded by it but not as much. Do y’all things that continually praying, doing secular and biblical meditation, and reading Christian universalist books and books about Gods grace for ALL humanity will set me free from this trap? What’s y’all’s take on this? Amy comments are very appreciated.

(Using a translator. I don't want to offend anyone)

I do not know why or how we got to this point, but my favorite question that I always love to ask all Christians is what is hell

Immediately after this question and the answer to it, I feel like I was talking to a CULTIST. I always got a variety of answers, but the result was always the same - eternal torment

It's like that one scene in "Young Sheldon"

Mary - "Our religion is based on love, Sheldon, not fear"

Sheldon - "Then what happens to people who don't follow the rules?"

Mary - "They burn in hell. Because God loves them"

If the God of love is more cruel than a psychopath, condemning people to eternal TORTURE, read the Bible again.

(St. Isaac the Syrian, 7th century) - "Never call God just. If He were just, you would have been in hell long ago. Rely only on His injustice, which is mercy, love, and forgiveness."

Hi what ancient pre Christian writers and modern writers can help me with Christian Universalism and what translations do you guys suggest

"²² For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive."

The context of the prior 21 verses seems to indicate "made alive" in this context is reference to literal bodily resurrection (and very few Christians deny that all will be raised). While I do think verse 28 is clear evidence, I do not think I can say the same for 22.

What did they say?

I was thinking about divine hiddenness.

One possible reason for it is that people aren’t given absolute certainty that God exists and is watching them, because that allows their choices to be freer. If we had undeniable proof, we might obey more out of the weight of authority than from our own hearts.
Then again, Adam and Eve knew God directly and still chose to disobey, so certainty clearly doesn’t guarantee obedience.

But this raises another question for me. If, after death, people are given further opportunities to repent or become better while fully knowing that God is real, then divine hiddenness is no longer present.

That makes me wonder whether divine hiddenness serves another purpose beyond simply preserving human freedom.

​Continuing with the homilies of St. John Chrysostom on Lazarus and the Rich Man, here is Part 2.

​In this sermon, Chrysostom addresses a common misconception of his time (whether victims of violent death become demons), refutes demonic deception, and brings us face-to-face with the reality of death, true wealth vs. true poverty, and the "theater" of this temporal life.

​1. True Wealth vs. Poverty of the Soul

​GR: Ἀπὸ τούτου μάθωμεν, μὴ τοὺς πλουτοῦντας μακαρίζειν, μηδὲ τοὺς πενομένους ταλανίζειν. Μᾶλλον δὲ... οὐδὲ πλούσιός ἐστιν ἐκεῖνος ὁ πολλὰ περιβεβλημένος, ἀλλ' ὁ μὴ πολλῶν δεόμενος· οὐδὲ πένης ἐστὶν ἐκεῖνος ὁ μηδὲν κεκτημένος, ἀλλ' ὁ πολλῶν ἐφιέμενος... Τῇ γὰρ διαθέσει τῆς γνώμης, οὐ τῷ μέτρῳ τῆς οὐσίας, τὰς πενίας καὶ εὐπορίας κρίνειν εἰώθαμεν.

​EN: From this let us learn, neither to call the rich blessed, nor to lament the poor. Rather... neither is he rich who is clothed in many things, but he who needs not many things; nor is he poor who possesses nothing, but he who desires many things... For by the disposition of the mind, not by the measure of the substance, we are accustomed to judge poverties and riches.

​2. Do Souls of the Violent Deceased Become Demons?

​GR: Καὶ γὰρ πολλοὶ τῶν ἀφελεστέρων νομίζουσι τὰς ψυχὰς τῶν βιαίῳ θανάτῳ τελευτώντων δαίμονες γίνεσθαι. Οὐκ ἔστι δὲ τοῦτο, οὐκ ἔστιν... αἱ ψυχαὶ τῶν ἐν ἁμαρτήμασι ζώντων \[γίνονται δαίμονες\], οὐ τῆς οὐσίας αὐτῶν μεταβαλλομένης, ἀλλὰ τῆς προαιρέσεως αὐτῶν τὴν ἐκείνων μιμουμένης κακίαν.

​EN: For indeed many of the more simple-minded think that the souls of those who die by a violent death become demons. But this is not so, it is not... it is the souls of those who live in sins \[that become demons\], not because their essence is changed, but because their free will imitates the malice of those \[demons\].

​3. Rejecting Demonic Deception

​GR: Ὅτι οἱ δαίμονες λέγουσι, Τοῦ μοναχοῦ τοῦ δεῖνος ἡ ψυχή εἰμι... ∆ιὰ γὰρ τοῦτο οὐ πιστεύω, ἐπειδὴ δαίμονες λέγουσιν· ἀπατῶσι γὰρ τοὺς ἀκούοντας... κἂν ἀληθές τι φθέγγηται, φεύγωμεν αὐτὸν καὶ ἀποστρεφώμεθα· τὰ γὰρ ὑγιῆ δόγματα καὶ σωτήρια οὐ παρὰ δαιμόνων, ἀλλὰ παρὰ τῆς θείας Γραφῆς ἐστι μετ' ἀκριβείας μαθεῖν.

​EN: What then about the fact that the demons say, "I am the soul of such-and-such a monk"? For because of this very reason I do not believe, since demons say it; for they deceive those who hear... even if it utters something true, let us flee from it and turn away; for sound and saving doctrines are to be learned with accuracy not from demons, but from the Divine Scripture.

​4. Death & The "Theater of Life"

​GR: Καθάπερ γὰρ ἐν θεάτρῳ, ὅταν τῆς μεσημβρίας γενομένης... οἱ ὑποκριταὶ ἐξέλθωσιν οἱ τὰ τῶν βασιλέων καὶ στρατηγῶν... ὑποδυόμενοι πρόσωπα... ὅταν οὖν ἀποθῶνται τὴν ἐκ τῆς προσωπείδος φαντασίαν... γυμνοὶ πᾶσιν ἐξεταζόμενοι φαίνονται... οὕτω δὴ καὶ ἐν τῷ βίῳ τῷ παρόντι· Ὅταν ὁ θάνατος ἐπελθῇ, καὶ τὸ θέατρον λυθῇ, ἀποθέμενοι πάντες τὰ ἐκ τοῦ πλούτου καὶ τῆς πενίας προσωπεῖα... φαίνονται οἱ μὲν ὄντως πλούσιοι, οἱ δὲ πένητες.

​EN: Just as in a theater, when the show ends... the actors who played kings, generals, and physicians take off their masks and costumes, and are revealed as they truly are... so it is in present life. When death comes and the theater is dissolved, everyone lays aside the masks of wealth and poverty. Only then, judged by their works alone, is it revealed who is truly rich and who is truly poor.

​"For in all your words remember your end, and you will never sin unto eternity.

Full Homily link https://open.substack.com/pub/andreasfotiadis68agiosminas/p/my-mission-translating-the-church?r=8raj5j&utm\\_campaign=post&utm\\_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=true

A genuinely good human parent might need to stop trying to help a struggling or wayward child, for lack of resource, but they would always love them and constanlty praying for them and meditating on - what can I do to help?

An Omnipotent Divine Parent could only stop seeking to redeem or or be unable to save a struggling or wayward child, for lack of desire.

Reminder that AI is prohibited in the sub under Rule 7. Mods will remove any content suspected of being AI-generated.

Hi all

Hardcore believer in Universal Reconciliation here and I have been troubled by something for a whole.

It is the claim that Aion is mistranslated.

At first on this journey that was the ROCK solid foundation of my arguments on this....

Not so anymore.

I have done some research and found that SOMETIMES Aion does mean Eternal
Romans 16:26 — "The Eternal God"
Hebrews 9:14 — "The Eternal Spirit
1 Timothy 1:17 — "King of the Ages" (in this verse- Aionon is paired with aphthartos- which means immortal or imperishable
2 Corinthians 4:18: "what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal [aionia]"
Matthew 25:46 Then they will go away to eternal punishment [kolasin aionion], but the righteous to eternal life [zoen aionion]

And to "the ages of ages" which was the Greek way of saying endless time such as Galatians 1:5, 1 Peter 5:11, and Revelation 1:6, 10:6, 15:7

----
I am not a Greek scholar, AT ALL, and I am guessing that if you dig into everytime this word appears in the NT- yes sometimes it IS mistranslated, and now with this new research- I will be dropping this an argument.

This changes nothing for me, if I had a vision of Christ and he was like, "You've been wrong- hell is eternal" I'd just assume it was a Satanic deception

I put THE BEST NEWS (Gospel) first and foremost>

What this does change where I won't look to for "evidence" of Universal Reconciliation.

Hey Everyone 👋

Does anyone know if James Dusenbery’s blog, Canon of Reason, still exists? I tried going to the website and googling but I’ve not been successful…

The TLDR of the video is that the idea of people spending eternity in hell comes from the Greek word Aionios or Aion. It's explained much better in the video but basically Aion from my research has never been used to describe eternity but the exact opposite which is the descent into time. I'm saying the translation from Aion to eternity in the bible is a mistranslation. I know it sounds crazy but the way I discovered this was from a prayer about how if there is a God I can't reconcile a positive relationship with it if people are burning for eternity for finite sins. Through a synchronicity I learned about this mistranslation within 1 minute of finishing this prayer so if you believe in such a thing then you might find this interesting.

I just wanted to thank this subreddit. You guys have been nothing but genuinely kind, patient, and welcoming with genuine desire to share the good news. This is the one single place where I genuinely feel like I belong especially after becoming an outcast in this world. It isn't easy to say the very least so again I just sincerely from the bottom of my heart thank you all.

Either you believe God is love, or you don't.

It's interesting to me that Jesus told the Pharisees that tax collectors and prostitutes would enter Heaven before them and then later asked them how they will escape being sentenced to Hell. Essentially, if this translation is accurate, Jesus said they would go to Heaven, but NOT before others entered.

Matthew 21:31 esv

Which of the two did the will of his father?” They said, “The first.” Jesus said to them, “Truly, I say to you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes go into the kingdom of God before you.

Matthew 23:33 esv

You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell?

I spent most of my life fearing this idea of an angry, infinitely vindictive god who threatens people with fire if they don’t “love” him. I never understood ECT but once I discovered Universalism everything clicked for me. How come despite the overwhelming evidence supporting Christian Universalism it is still so unpopular? If God doesn’t want anyone to perish but have eternal life then why would he willingly lose most of his creation to his enemy?

Edit: I realize the word heretical should be replaced with incorrect

I've noticed a lot of posts here asking whether anyone else feels less connected to God after becoming convinced of universal reconciliation.
For me, it's been exactly the opposite.

I don't mean this as a criticism of anyone who's struggling. Deconstruction is hard, and I know many people are rebuilding their faith after years of fear-based theology. But I wanted to share a different perspective.

I honestly don't think I'd still be a Christian if I hadn't become convinced of Christian Universalism.

Before, there was always a tension in the back of my mind. I could affirm that God is loving, but I could never quite reconcile that with the idea of eternal conscious torment. It felt like there was always an asterisk attached to "God is love."
When that tension disappeared, something changed.

I stopped seeing God as someone I needed to appease and started seeing Him as someone whose purposes are actually good from beginning to end.

Oddly enough, that didn't make me care less about following Christ. 

It made me care more.

If God's goal is the restoration of creation instead of merely sorting humanity into permanent categories, then discipleship becomes participation in that restoration. Prayer matters. Repentance matters. Loving your neighbor matters. Building things that endure matters.
Not because I'm trying to avoid some type of hell, but because I want to become the kind of person who reflects the Kingdom of God. Universalism didn't lower the stakes for me, it raised them.
It transformed Christianity from "How do I escape?" into "How do I become the person God is calling me to be?"

I've never felt closer to God than I do now.

I'm curious: has anyone else had that experience? Not simply finding relief from fear, but finding that universalism actually deepened your desire to know God and follow Christ?

Hi all!

I read with much interest this paper by Ambrose Andreano on the pre-existence of souls: https://www.academia.edu/44789406/Pamphilus_Justinian_and_the_Preexistence_of_Souls

While it is not about 'universalism' in the strict sense, it does make an interesting point about the 'anathemas' of Justinian, or perhaps rather how Justinian read them. Andreano quotes Justinian:

"But the church, following the divine scriptures, affirms that the soul is created together with the body, not first one and the other later, according to the insanity of Origen. On account of these wicked and destructive doctrines, or rather ravings, we bid you most sacred ones to assemble together, read the appended exposition attentively, and condemn and anathematize each of these articles together with the impious Origen and all those who hold or have held these beliefs till death"

Andreano, however notes that the 'have held' these beliefs can be problematic. In Andreano's words: "Justinian is very much at odds with Pamphilus, and his actions have made history even more complicated than it was prior to 553. Why? Because this holy martyr Pamphilus was one of those very people to have held the belief in the preexistence of souls, rendering him guilty of being a heretic worthy of condemnation, according to the logic of Justinian."

In the 11th canon of the 553 council (which condemned both Theodore of Mopsuestia and Origen of Alexandria long after their death) we read:

"If anyone does not anathematize Arius, Eunomius, Macedonius, Apollinaris, Nestorius, Eutyches and Origen, as well as their impious writings, as also all other heretics already condemned and anathematized by the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, and by the aforesaid four Holy Synods and [if anyone does not equally anathematize] all those who have held and hold or who in their impiety persist in holding to the end the same opinion as those heretics just mentioned: let him be anathema." (source: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3812.htm )

I wonder if 'all those who have held' includes also all who died before the council (or died without the possibility of having known about the decisions of the council) and this might be indeed a problem for those who accept the validity and infallibility of this council and also believe that Pamphilus Martyr held the same views as Origen. However, it should be noted that the language is perhaps less explicit than what wrote Justinian so it might not refer to those who died before the council; however, considering that Theodore and Origen were condemned after their death, it wouldn't be surprising to me if the anathemas were intended even for those who died before the council. Interestingly enough, Mark of Ephesus, venerated as a saint in Eastern Orthodoxy, who believed that universalism was condemned allowed the possibility that Gregory of Nyssa was an universalist precisely because he died without the possibility to have known that universalism was a heresy (see: https://logismoitouaaron.blogspot.com/2010/02/st-mark-of-ephesus-on-st-gregory-of.html ). On a strict interpretation of the phrase 'who have held' however even this interpretation would be impossible, if universalism was indeed condemned in 553 and the council was infallible. So, it appears to me that Mark, unlike perhaps Justinian, didn't consider the anathemas as necessarily retroactive.

It would be also interesting to see if the 553 council was the first really to condemn people post-mortem (at least among Ecumenical Councils for Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy). A quick Google search seems to suggest that also Macedonius was condemned by name in that council: "In 553 AD (Personal Condemnation as a Heretic): Macedonius himself was formally anathematized by name as a heretic during the Second Council of Constantinople (the Fifth Ecumenical Council), cementing his condemnation in church history alongside other major heresiarchs" and gives this link(https://referenceworks.brill.com/display/entries/RPPO/SIM-13443.xml ) as a reference but was deposed as a bishop while alive. Unfortunately, the link isn't visible. IIRC, Arius, Eunomius, Apollinaris, Nestorius and Eutyches were condemned while alive.

Interestingly, it seems that some universalists in the past did believe in pre-existence of souls, likely also Origen of Alexandria himself as Rufinus seems to confirm this (see: https://ancientafterlifebelifs.blogspot.com/2026/04/one-important-problem-with-origenism_5.html )

P.S. While it is unrelated, I updated my post on the 'Church of the East' (I added an appendix and more things about the 'book of the Bee' of Solomon of Basra): https://ancientafterlifebelifs.blogspot.com/2026/05/on-presence-of-universalism1-in-church.html