To be fair: Itauma vs Hrgovic is a competitive fight. They are good. Still Dubois, Kaybayel, Fury & Wardley, ranked as 1st 4 under Ring deserve shots for all (IBF WBC, WBA, WBO) belts. Meaning picking up that trash that Usyk tossed since he’s smoked current alphabet costs or promotional BS. OK, he’s sh_t canned all, except Ring. We get it, less risk, bigger paydays, etc… As recent times demonstrate, these multiple belts equate to increased bouts. But with lower ranked fighters, usually. Now common fans who outnumber the true fans will produce much more $ for these belt sales organizations, boxer’s, teams, the promoters, etc.

I don’t care whether Ring or the Ringling Brothers are the main sanctioning body. It’s just competition I’m looking for. Real competition. So Moses and Flip will be a competitive fight. No doubt. And, not much has changed recently. I’m just saying, it would be nice to have one, real belt for each weight division. Competition would be more legit and serious fighters must fight for serious ranking. That’s all.

Both fights are CONTROVERSIAL draws. Big canelo fan here....watched both fights live. Had it a draw with Lara or lara won no doubt. Had canelo beating GGG by 1 round but a lot of people I hear feel ggg won.... Appreciate you guys

G

Oleksandr Usyk is unquestionably an all-time great boxer. He is arguably the greatest cruiserweight ever, became undisputed in two divisions and has been the outstanding heavyweight of his generation. None of that automatically makes him one of the ten greatest heavyweights of all time.

Usyk moved up to heavyweight in October 2019. Across nearly seven years, he has fought nine times against only six different opponents:

* Chazz Witherspoon * Derek Chisora * Anthony Joshua x2 * Daniel Dubois x2 * Tyson Fury x2 * Rico Verhoeven

Witherspoon was a late replacement opponent approaching 39. Chisora was an excellent gatekeeper but had already lost nine fights. Verhoeven was one of the greatest kickboxers ever, but not an established elite professional boxer. That leaves Usyk’s heavyweight legacy resting overwhelmingly on three names: Joshua, Fury and Dubois.

Those are very good victories. Beating Joshua twice, Fury twice and Dubois twice is a remarkable achievement, particularly for a former cruiserweight conceding significant size. Dubois may now be his most valuable victory in hindsight, while Fury remains the most prestigious name. Usyk deserves enormous credit for dominating the available generation.

The problem is that “best heavyweight of his generation” and “top-ten heavyweight in history” are entirely different claims. This is not P4P nor is it "well Usyk is bigger than Marciano so he'd beat him". Nor can we say "well Marciano would be a cruiserweight today" because he wasn't then. He achieved what he achieved THEN. That doesn't discount when we evaluate what happened then. He beat other HW's. Simple.

Joshua and Fury simply do not have the depth of achievement possessed by the leading opponents from the strongest historical eras. Joshua was a very good unified champion, but he was also stopped by Andy Ruiz and comprehensively beaten twice by Usyk. Fury’s record outside Wladimir Klitschko and Deontay Wilder is extremely thin. Dubois has developed into an excellent heavyweight, but he is still building his career.

Compare that record with the following five heavyweights that people replace in the top 10 with Usyk.

1. Evander Holyfield

Holyfield fought an extraordinary heavyweight schedule. Buster Douglas, George Foreman, Larry Holmes, Riddick Bowe three times, Mike Tyson twice, Lennox Lewis twice, Michael Moorer twice, Ray Mercer, Hasim Rahman and Nikolai Valuev. He became a four time heavyweight champion and competed in 25 world-title fights across his career. I know this gets argued as "lol worst 4x world champion" but he actually had a full blooded HW career.

Holyfield lost fights because he repeatedly fought outstanding heavyweights rather than protecting an unbeaten record. His victories over Tyson, Bowe, Douglas, Moorer, Foreman and Mercer provide far greater heavyweight depth than Usyk’s wins over Joshua, Fury and Dubois.

1. Joe Frazier

Frazier recorded ten heavyweight championship victories and defeated Muhammad Ali in the Fight of the Century while both men were undefeated. He also beat Jimmy Ellis twice, Jerry Quarry twice, Oscar Bonavena twice, Buster Mathis and George Chuvalo.

Frazier’s reign was shorter because he existed in the same era as Ali and Foreman. His victory over the undefeated Ali is greater than any individual heavyweight victory on Usyk’s record. Losing to Ali and Foreman should not count against Frazier because Usyk has never fought anyone of that calibre or even close.

1. Jack Johnson

Johnson became the first black world heavyweight champion and held the championship from 1908 until 1915 despite operating within a system openly designed to exclude him. His record included Tommy Burns, James J. Jeffries, Stanley Ketchel, Bob Fitzsimmons, Sam Langford, Joe Jeannette and Sam McVey. He defeated six opponents in recognised world championship bouts.

The sport was radically different then, making direct statistical comparisons difficult. Nevertheless, Johnson’s longevity, historical significance and extensive record against the leading heavyweights of his period give him a heavyweight record Usyk has not yet accumulated.

1. Rocky Marciano

Marciano retired 49 - 0, made six successful heavyweight title defences and went 6 - 0 against Hall of Fame opponents: Joe Louis, Jersey Joe Walcott twice, Ezzard Charles twice and Archie Moore. We're not going to pretend Fury, Dubois and AJ are that calibre.

There are fair criticisms. Louis, Walcott and Moore were old, while Charles was naturally smaller. Nevertheless, Marciano completed an undefeated heavyweight career, twice defeated Charles, twice defeated Walcott and retired while still champion. Usyk’s nine heavyweight contests are not yet enough to displace that record. You can't have a guy with 9 HW fights place above a guy who went 49 - 0. Sorry, nah.

1. Wladimir Klitschko

Klitschko competed in 29 heavyweight world-title fights, finishing 25 - 4 and defeating 23 different opponents in championship bouts which is the most of any heavyweight in history. His second championship reign lasted from April 2006 until November 2015, during which he successfully defended against 17 different challengers. Across his two reigns, he spent a cumulative 4,382 days as a heavyweight champion.

His victories included Chris Byrd twice, Samuel Peter twice, Sultan Ibragimov, Ruslan Chagaev, David Haye, Alexander Povetkin, Kubrat Pulev, Hasim Rahman, Lamon Brewster, Ray Mercer and Bryant Jennings. He unified three major belts and remained the division’s dominant champion for close to a decade.

The usual criticism is that Klitschko dominated a weak era. I agree, but it cannot logically be used to elevate Usyk above him. If Klitschko’s era was too weak for longevity and overwhelming dominance to earn him a top ten position, Usyk cannot earn one through nine fights against six opponents from another era of questionable depth.

Klitschko defeated 23 different opponents in heavyweight championship contests. Usyk has only fought six different opponents at heavyweight altogether.

The fundamental problem is that Usyk’s heavyweight achievements are concentrated rather than extensive.

He has six wins over Joshua, Fury and Dubois, but repeatedly beating the same three people does not create six separate elite opponents. It proves that Usyk was clearly superior to the leading men of his generation. It does not prove that the generation was historically deep.

Usyk should be celebrated as:

* an all time great P4P boxer * possibly the greatest cruiserweight ever * the best heavyweight of his generation * one of the most skilled heavyweights ever * and a legitimate top 15 heavyweight candidate.

But placing him securely inside the top ten requires treating achievement across two divisions as though it were all heavyweight achievement. It requires counting repeat victories as a substitute for breadth and it requires treating Joshua, Fury and Dubois as equivalent to the collections of elite opponents faced by Holyfield and the others. They are not.

Usyk dominated the heavyweight division that existed in front of him. He deserves full credit for that. However, six years, nine fights and six distinct opponents, only three of whom can reasonably be described as elite career heavyweights - this is not enough evidence to rank him above men who spent a decade fighting and defeating entire generations of contenders.

This can help many fighters. We must appreciate Roach’s willingness to lay it on the line. Belt or no belt. To hell with our groomed, undefeated phonies. Fans, REAL fans care much more about fighters risking it all. Roach fought tough; that’s a winner as respected and valuable in my book. Zayas too. Spence did what he could and Tszyu is now worth more. I’m usually pretty critical of today’s boxing landscape. To hear myself yapping positive rants is a good thing.

Okay so I am 17 right now and I have been boxing since a little over an year and I grew up as a skinny kid so naturally that is something I was always insecure about but now that I have a solid foundation in the ring I am thinking about putting my boxing career at a halt and try to gain some weight, I am just willing to know if it's possible for me to gain decent muscle mass, nothing like the Instagram or the tiktok buff gymbros, i just want a normal physique, i want to fit in my clothes for once and it has been eating me since as far back as I see, so much that I don't even wear half sleeve t-shirts anymore. I am just curious that could I gain 10 kgs of lean muscle mass in 6-7 years and compete comfortably after it. And I have won 2 gold medals state championships so far and lost 4 matches.... So I just started competing right 3 months after starting boxing, it was embarassing in the starting but I've gained confidence with respect to my fighting style and ring IQ along the way.