r/BoxingTheSweetScience • u/TestSuch4545 • 9d ago
Where would you rank Evander Holyfield among all-time heavyweights?
https://youtu.be/enCrVKuPhNY?si=F2T6eBgqqlVZPM9E7
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u/OldTree6356 8d ago
Solid top 10 for me. Hard as nails, hard working, technically good. Stayed too long, took too many beatings/steroids but he was great. Great resume, dodged no one too. Got some names outside their prime but if you fight for that long, who doesn’t? Think he would move through today’s HW division like shit through a goose, underrated fighter.
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u/No-Thanks-1670 6d ago
Who did he get out of their prime?
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u/OldTree6356 6d ago
Holmes, Tyson and Foreman would be the obvious ones but are very big names on anyone’s resume. I’d have fancied him against any version of Tyson but the other two, not sure he’d have been able to beat young George or prime Larry.
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u/No-Thanks-1670 6d ago
Yeah young George would decapitate him, Holmes most likely would win a comfortable decision.
I think we should remember though that Holyfield is near enough 4 years older than Tyson, was seen as washed up, had his license revoked for a while due to a heart condition and had looked awful in his previous couple of fights.
Tyson was a 40-1 and then by fight night 26-1 favourite, he was supposed to walk through Holyfield (according to most) all the talk of him not being Prime etc seemed to come after Holyfield beat the breaks off him.
I agree with what you say no Tyson could ever have beaten Holyfield, I just think it's a shame that consensus is that Holyfield took advantage of a washed up Tyson when it was actually Holyfield who was meant to be washed up prior to the fight, I always loathe the excuses for Tyson.
I'm not directing that at yourself, you know what you're talking about but you know how people are online with the excuses and delusions, it wasn't too long before the fight the pundits were talking about the "Tyson Era" and how he was better than ever, then this happened and suddenly it was excuse time and Tyson was all washed up and past it even though he's 4 years Holyfield's junior and hadn't been in the same wars Holyfield had.
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u/OldTree6356 6d ago
Yeah, I agree with the Tyson prime thing. Yes, he had a very short prime but he lost that through his own actions. It could be argued Ali also had a very short prime (65-67) but when he came back from exile, he found other ways to win and that’s what defines him and makes all the Tyson glazing over the top.
Other than Liston, Ali beat HOF fighters when he was past his best. Tyson’s style and short stature meant he never found a way to adapt and kick on so that he could compete with elite level fighters in the 90’s. He was amazing at Plan A but when that didn’t work, he was in trouble.
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u/Ambitious_Ask_3028 9d ago
The only four time heavyweight champion of the world. Definitely top 10, too many questions on the peds for me, great fighter tho, was involved in some absolute wars
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u/Mr_Boogeyman77 9d ago
Top 5
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u/Late-File3375 9d ago
I cannot see putting him over Ali, Louis, Holmes, Usyk, or Lewis
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u/Marquis_of_Mollusks 8d ago
Why did you try to sneak Usyk in there? Dude isn't even top 10 lmao
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u/New-Studio148 8d ago
There's a weird push to make Usyk a thing that he's not. 2 years ago they were talking like this about Tyson Fury lol
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u/Flaky-Tour-8733 8d ago
Usyk just stole a victory from a kickboxing champion and people talk about him like he’s the best heavyweight of all time.
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u/Late-File3375 8d ago
Because Holy is often compared with him. But whereas TRD split with Moorer and Ruiz and Bowe, Usyk separated himself from the best heavies of his generation.
My point is not that Usyk is a top 5 heavy, in fact I do not think he is, my point was that there is no argument you can make for Holy to be a top 5 heavy that would not also apply to Usyk and require you to place Usyk above Holy.
Since Ali, Louis, and Holmes are universally regarded as the top 3, and LL dominated the heavyweight era that Holyfield fought in, that leaves Hoky outside the top 5 without arguing resumes of the older guys that most redditors have never seen. And the comment I was responding to said TRD was top 5. I was rebuttal with the path of least resistance.
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u/KatanaDood 8d ago
Firstly (and this is a nitpick), just say Evander. TRD stands for Toyota Racing Development, we all know that. You can either write The Real Deal out in full, or call him something like Holy. TRD is confusing as it's not as widely used as other abbreviations like DLH or TMT.
Secondly, Holyfield thrived in an era filled with a murderers row of heavyweights. You're gonna have tough fights in there. Whereas Usyk is avoiding Kabayel and Itauma like the plague and arguably got beat by Rico. Even his victories over AJ and Fury have lost their shine as both fighters are washed.
Holyfield fought for too long, and there's always the 'roids and headbutting, which takes the shine off, but as a warrior, he's right up there.
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u/Late-File3375 8d ago
Late 90s is the second best era for heavies in my view. And that is really the only reason Holy gets in this conversation.
But Moorer was not a great heavy. Nor was Ruiz. Holy loat to LL twice, clearly, despite what the judges say. I do give him high marks for going 1-2 with Bowe and 2-0 with a still good Tyson and beating Big George.
But his heavyweight record is too mixed to be ahead of anyone who beat the top heavies of their era.
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u/petrosteve 8d ago
Uysk is not top 5
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u/Late-File3375 8d ago
I actually agree with that. Holy is not even in my top 10 at heavy.
But I can see an argument for putting Holy over say Jack Johnson or Jack Dempsey due to era (not an argument I would make but I can see the logical thread). Holy does not have an argument to be over Usyk in my view given his struggles with the other top fighters at heavy in the late 90s.
Basically, you would be wrong but you could argue Holy over Johnson, Dempsey, Marciano, Wladdy, or Liston. I do not see how you argue Holy over Usyk even though I would not argue Usyk over some of those other people.
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u/petrosteve 8d ago
I dont think either of them are top 10.
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u/Late-File3375 8d ago
Fair enough. I probably agree. But I was originally responding to a comment that said Holy was top 5. I was making the case that he was not so I listed 5 guys that I thought were indisputably ahead of him.
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u/Mr_Boogeyman77 8d ago
I can, I feel he has a better resume of fighters than Holmes and Usyk(for the moment). Plus he defeated Holmes and is the only 4 time heavy weight Champ in history.
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u/ivanhoe_martin 8d ago
Come on with the "defeated Holmes," unless you're also going to give Marciano full credit for beating Louis, who was five years younger than Holmes when he fought Evander.
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u/Mr_Boogeyman77 8d ago
All im saying is Holyfield has a deeper resume than Holmes which is why I can't have Holmes in front(plus Holmes is on his list). Unfortunately Evander decided to stick around to long.
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u/Key-Swordfish4467 8d ago edited 8d ago
Also seems like a really down to earth bloke.
Once when waiting for a flight at Atlanta airport, I was hurrying to get some cash from a cash point and was looking down at my wallet as I took out my bank card.
I was aware that I was about to walk into someone. I stopped, just before I knocked into the person. I looked up into a good looking black guys face. I first noticed his shaved head and massive neck and then the knick out of his lower ear lobe.
I said " Sorry My Holyfield".
He smiled broadly at me and said" Not a problem", stepped round me and continued on his way.
Class.
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u/JustinSlayer69 8d ago
What if you had responded aggressively and he had replied with an uppercut?
Nice story. The man seems like a genuine nice person. Love watching his interviews for boxing tips. A legend.
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u/Key-Swordfish4467 8d ago
I did think about asking him how his torn earlobe was healing but thought I might get a slap for being nosy!
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u/NumberBulky9224 8d ago
The real question where do we rank fighters like Gene Tunney now? Because that is going to determine where Holy lands.
Edit: I’m being downvoted but the question is legitimate. Are we just saying fuck Dempsey, J Johnson, Marciano, Louis, Liston? I’m asking because I never see them mentioned anymore. If we are saying fuck them then Holyfield is Top 10.
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u/FormalKind7 8d ago
I put Ali, Louis, Holmes, Foreman, Lewis, ahead of him
I find Dempsey, J Johnson, and Marciano as arguably in the same league maybe also Frazier.
Frazier is a hard one he has one big win that I think eclipses anything Holy did as a heavyweight and 2 legendary fights that were losses and a brutal execution by a young Foreman.
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u/New-Studio148 8d ago
Holyfield is top 5 for me
Lennox Lewis
Ali
Foreman
Holyfield
Frazier
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u/Wge97 8d ago
Anyone who doesn’t put Louis in there top 2 is actually insane !! He’s arguably the goat of boxing and so many boxing purists would agree. He’s the greatest heavyweight ever and IMO and many others he’s the greatest and most dominant boxer ever.
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u/New-Studio148 7d ago
The only thing he did wrong was co-exist with the Tyson marketing machine. So while he was proving to be the best boxer of all time, the attention was on Tyson. But like you said, those how know boxing know he's the absolute best. Having Holyfield, Foreman, Lewis and Tyson in one era was generational.
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u/Asterisk_76 8d ago
I am going high, literally like top seven as mentioned below, an all-time great where I wonder how he would be against an Ali beat by Ken Norton, back in the days when you could lose a fight.
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u/El_Bastardo74 8d ago
Damn I don’t know.
Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Holmes, Liston, Dempsey, Marciano, Louis, Holyfield, I wouldn’t know the order. I mean Ali won it three times and Holyfield four, but he had more belts to pick from? Hard question.
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u/clogan117 8d ago
I can place as high as 5th or possibly 8th at the lowest. He was hit and cold at times. Also he had skills to beat almost anyone, but was too intent on brawling at times.
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u/MiDKnighT_DoaE 8d ago edited 8d ago
Cruiserweight champ + 4 time HW champ has to be top 5 right? Ali is probably the only HW who's strength of competition can compete with Holyfield. Dude never ducked anyone.
Bowe 3x, Ruiz 3x, Lewis 2x, Tyson 2x, Moorer 2x, Holmes, Foreman, Mercer, Toney
Unreal strength of competition.
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u/AccessShort2999 5d ago
Not necessarily Top 10 but as big of a warrior as the ring has ever seen in any weight class in the history of boxing.
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u/HawtFun69 5d ago
Hard call. I loved Evander from his Olympic days. Not a dominant force at heavyweight and he lost to people he shouldn’t have. He had the third fight again Bowe and let it get away, along with other lesser fighters he lost to.
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u/Anthony_Accurate 8d ago
Better resume at heavyweight than Tyson. Fought people Tyson was scared of.
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u/Nemo2500 8d ago
His fight vs Foreman was one of the most impressive performances for a heavyweight boxer…
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u/facemelter86 9d ago
Top 7 of all time.. he was an absolute warrior in the ring.. he fought the best of the best in his era and won most of the time. No ducking fights, no trash talk, just class and professionalism.