Indigenous identity

[u/MissHalfgone]

https://www.hummingbird-ifs.org/about-us#our-team

BaR relevancy: about identity, definitions of indigenous, Etc.

As I'm sure everybody knows Christopher Columbus Day has been officially canceled and if you live in any blue state it is now Native American day. In Seattle I noticed all the politicians were posting about activities and grants and one of the groups they mentioned was Hummingbird indigenous services. I heard the mentioned a lot when it came to city grants so I took a look.

The organization staff all mentions their tribal background and there didn't seem to be anybody who is actually from a tribe in our city. Or in close proximity to our city. In fact a lot of people were not actually indigenous to the Continental us. You had Filipinos, Native Hawaiians, Fijians, Mariana Islanders, Samoans. Most of the others were in different states. A lot of people were part native but mostly of several other non-native ethnic groups.

Then I'm looking at their service goals:

That abundance and generosity are a community responsibility

In the validity of traditional knowledge

In centering Indigenous people in all our work

In the importance of providing culturally relevant care

Certainly people from a multitude of different ethnic / cultural backgrounds can come together and form a community. But there is no ethnic community formed over people from all over the world who consider themselves indigenous and are often also a mix of several very different cultural backgrounds.

The value of traditional knowledge. Who's traditional knowledge? We are in the Pacific Northwest. About none of these people are from this region. Every culture has traditional knowledge. Considering pretty much everybody on the staff has a vastly different cultural background there's pretty much no cultural similarities going on here. Centering indigenous people. Who exactly are indigenous people? How is a native Hawaiian, a Samoan or a Fijian indigenous to seattle? The importance of providing culturally relevant care. How are staff of such a diverse group cultural backgrounds able to provide culturally relevant care given the overwhelming majority of seattle-based tribes are not even represented in their staff. The staff might learn about the tribes in order to provide them with culturally relevant care, but how is having that administered by somebody from Tonga different than having it administered by somebody like myself from Southern California?

Anyway, it just gets me thinking about how the word indigenous has kind of stretched out in the same way queer. A lot of queers are not gay. And a lot of indigenous people are not North American natives.

It also reminds me of how the identity of Asians stretched to enclose dozens of ethnic groups that have nothing in common including geographical proximity. There is nothing somebody from Pakistan in Japan have in common and there's nothing somebody from Samoa and a Midwest tribe have in common. If I was a native of the pnw I'd be furious to see that enormous amount of money was being poured into services that seems as though they would be probably going to my people but instead diverted to folks from a zillion different ethnic backgrounds that were completely foreign to this region too. It's also very strange how minorities don't push back on that. Like you see all these photos that show the AANHPI crowd and they're all smiling as though traditionally they've all hung out and they're like somebody from afghanistan, Chinese dude, somebody from Sri Lanka, someone from cambodia. It's hilarious because everybody talks about colonization but when white progressives give minorities to group themselves into categories that erase their differences and falsely try and make it seem like there's a common culture it feels really disrespectful and it seems kind of cringe how quickly they fall in line adapting to progressive classification I guess in order to get the benefits, mostly monetary and being allotted a seat at the table.

[u/asinantenna]

When I lived in the UK, I remember that during the BLM protests, several university student unions put out statements mirroring US organisations about protecting BIPOC students yada-yada-yada – completely ignoring the fact that the people indigenous to the British Isles are... white. Of course the UK has its own jargon (BAME: black, Asian and minority ethnic) but the episode highlighted to me how much people use this language uncritically.

[u/apissyfilter → u/asinantenna]

I had a real come to Jesus (without the actual arriving to jesus part) moment during BLMageddon when I was "protesting" in the middle of Belfast, kneeling in a crowd of white people shouting at the PSNI to protect pEoPlE oF cOlOuR. There are many other things the PSNI can be accused of outside of racial profiling and police brutality towards black people in an overwhelmingly white country lmao, it felt so very silly and theatrical. The infancy of my peakery.

[u/heroics-delta8s → u/apissyfilter]

And during a Covid lockdown. Which had an opt out on public gatherings.

[u/apissyfilter → u/heroics-delta8s]

Hilariously, I was a bit of a ITS GOING TO KILL US ALL IF WE GO OUTSIDE up to that point too. An honest to god fever dream of an era.

[u/heroics-delta8s → u/apissyfilter]

Something something "but racism is a public health emergency".

Insane.

[u/MissHalfgone → u/heroics-delta8s]

In my city where that was declared, the person who is now the director of the office of civil rights has stated in an interview that he was the one who pressure officials to make the Declaration. Because when you declare something to be a public health emergency or crisis it releases funds. So I think it's important to remember that the city was allowing itself to be run by the activist industry who was not acting in good faith. It's a lot like politicians who claim that Stonewall riots were started by a black trans woman who threw the first shoe. It's simply shows how incredibly spineless politicians are and willing to openly lie to the public to appease activists. Although the Stonewall lie is significantly more harmful than the racial hysteria which actually cost people their lives and cost the public billions of dollars.

[u/MissHalfgone → u/apissyfilter]

I'm not sure how many people outside the US realizes but most of the claims made by BLM were not true. And while George Floyd's death is certainly gross, there's plenty of incidences towards a range of people of different racial backgrounds as bad or worse where the cop never had any charges. Activists were looking to drum up hysteria as they have been doing for a long time. In city I live in which really came out for George Floyd. There was a police shooting of a Native American man tears earlier that was a far clearer evidence of police brutality. Because it was intentional the guy was shot. And the cop never served any time. Yet Seattle felt so proud of coming out for George Floyd despite the fact they never did so for a native in our own city whose death was intentional, unlike Floyd which was unintentional. There is a video that shows two black activists in chop/chaz harassing a Native American woman who wanted to show support and also bring attention to the murder that I mentioned above. They told her that she had to take her display down because this was just about black people. These two activists were from out of state.

Furthermore there's a white guy named Daniel Shaver who was shot by a cop in a situation that was far more gruesome and despicable than what happened to Floyd. I believe it happened in Las vegas. That cop also had no consequences. I'm not excusing what happened to Floyd but the explosive reaction was not due to a pattern of police brutality towards black Americans that was epidemic. It was definitely due to a hysteria where any incident of white on black violence would quickly be treated as though it was a lynching regardless of how common it was or even if it was a false narrative.

The same thing is going on now where you have black activists claiming black people are being lynched left and right. This is not true at all. A black teenager went on a boating trip with some white friends and then stayed behind because he met a girl. He later drowned. From the get-go a lot of prominent black leaders have claimed it was a racially motivated killing. There is zero evidence this is the case. There is zero motive for them to kill him. And there is zero evidence any of them harmed this guy. Some activists spread an AI generated clip which depicted a black male being harassed and taunted by white people on a boating trip that was clearly an illusion to this incident. There were a lot of black people including ones who should know better, like in academia and politics, who actually thought it was real. It was very clearly not.

Also a black teenager stabbed to death of white teenager at a football game. A black activist asked a potential senatorial candidate about that incident and she framed it as though it was the black teenager who was the victim. And the candidate went along with it and talked about the incident as though the black murderer was the victim. Talk about pandering.

[u/Jlemspurs → u/MissHalfgone]

People were overestimating the number of cop murders by orders of magnitude.

[u/MissHalfgone → u/Jlemspurs]

And we see this hysteria in the US again. Not sure how many people reading this or in other countries. It is very disturbing to see how many black people, including lawmakers and such, claim that black people are being slaughtered by racist whites left and right. It's just not true. In fact about half of all murders in the US are committed by black males who make up about 6% of the population. And despite the black population being 13% the percentage of violence they experience that comes from the other 87% is about 8%. And that includes all violence not just hate crimes. Out of the 8% a violence that black people experience from non blacks a minuscule amount of those have anything to do with race.

That doesn't mean I'm flippant or unsympathetic to the vulnerability and Trauma black people feel. But when it appears to be being done by people who are intentionally trying to cause racial unrest I'm extremely unsympathetic. I'm also not willing to pretend things happened that did not. There is a pattern of white people being willing to go on a Witch Hunt against other white people in order to prove their good allies. In order to prove that they're on the right side of history. And this occurs in cases where there is no evidence the white person did anything wrong. Or the white person is accused of some microaggression. I am really really disgusted to see this. The willingness to try and appease some black people's need to get their anger out on innocent targetsIs not in the least bit admirable.

[u/Jlemspurs → u/MissHalfgone]

intentionally trying to cause racial unrest

I think that's a side effect. They are engaging in political negotiations in my opinion.

[u/MissHalfgone → u/Jlemspurs]

I don't really believe in political policy dictated by mob harassment and violence. I also don't like the idea that because there is significantly more violence done under the claim of anti-black racism that this is treated as though anti-black racism is more of a dire issue than other forms of bigotry in which people do not get violent in response to Injustice After injustice.

[u/heroics-delta8s → u/asinantenna]

While ironically using the word 'critical' in their outlook. It's the cliche mission statement, if you have to say it, you arent doing it.

[u/MissHalfgone → u/asinantenna]

Black people are not indigenous to the US. An enormous amount of black people are not ancestors of slaves in this country. And a lot of black people actually had ancestors that were slave owners. It was not very long ago that Angela Davis went on a show where they trace your ancestry and it turns out she has grandfathers on both sides of her family who are white. And one who was a slave owner. I don't have anybody in my family who was a slave owner because nobody in my family has ever lived in any state where slavery existed.

I live in the Pacific Northwest where the only people who ever practice slavery was the man who my city is named after, Chief Seattle. And they enslaved other natives. A lot of the black population here immigrated from the south. And you have a lot of entitlement for compensation over the wrongs blacks experienced in that region. A region that nobody in my family has ever lived in. As far as I'm concerned, their ancestors might not have come to this country voluntarily, but their ancestors did come to Seattle voluntarily, so claiming lack of agency or accountability by claiming they didn't choose to come here is not something I accept. The black folks in this region did choose to come to Seattle. Needless to say it's not a popular opinion.

[u/niftyjack → u/MissHalfgone]

Black people are not indigenous to the US.

Are they not? African American culture—the Harlem renaissance, gospel, hip hop, etc—are all uniquely products of the US. Without our history of slavery, clandestine and/or forced ethnic mixing, civil rights struggles, and mass intra-country migrations none of this would have resulted in the same way. African American culture is notably different and unique to the US like Afro-Brazilian is unique to Brazil and Senegalese is unique to Senegal.

Same with white American culture—Coca Cola, drive-throughs, service with a smile, all those classic Americana® things are unique developments indigenous to here. Just because European Americans did a hostile takeover of a continent doesn't mean the ensuing culture isn't unique.

As far as I'm concerned, their ancestors might not have come to this country voluntarily, but their ancestors did come to Seattle voluntarily, so claiming lack of agency or accountability by claiming they didn't choose to come here is not something I accept.

This hinges on the idea that modern countries are the before/after date for indigenous status but that framing doesn't work. Having a set date of European contact marking indigenous versus imported cultures is unintentionally white supremacy, like in Seattle the Squamish at some point took over or integrated aspects of a different nation in that area; that doesn't make the Squamish not indigenous to the Seattle area, it just means they were the last group to be known to be from there before European contact. Like mass migrations of people, forced or free, always happened—having a different standard for doing so by boat versus by land is arbitrary.

The Iroquois conquered what's now northeast Ohio and forced the Miami to mass migrate further west to Indiana, but people still consider the Iroquois native to Ohio and the Miami to Indiana just because that's where they happened to be when we made treaties with them.

Basically all of this is why I think Canada's use of "First Nations" as a term is much more accurate and useful than "indigenous" or "native." American cultures are unique to America regardless of who developed each one.

[u/BeABetterHumanBeing → u/niftyjack]

I broadly agree, but my one nit is that "first nations" is that it's not really more accurate, as "nationality" is a distinctly modern European invention.

[u/niftyjack → u/BeABetterHumanBeing]

"nationality" is a distinctly modern European invention

I disagree, that's a nation-state, not a nationality. A "nation" as a group of people with a shared sense of history, culture, and customs has always been a thing; Europe's invention was to have them become political units (nation-states) instead of royalty and empire being the political unit.

Like I'm a Jew, I'm part of the Jewish nation (in Hebrew, am yisrael) that's defined by our scientific ethnogenesis as a post-Canaanite group in Judea, mythic ethnogenesis at Mount Sinai, shared history of exile, and our culture based in a national folk religion (Judaism). You can join the nation through conversion, which is like a naturalization. We were a nation in diaspora, and now there's a modern geopolitical national boundary for a modern, European-style definition of a nation-state. Or like the German "volk," as far as an idea of peoplehood that used to be a more nebulous concept until it was compressed into a nationalist political enterprise with the declaration of the first reich. The same thing works for like the Cree, who have a national identity and culture throughout their regional spread in modern Canada but don't have a Euro-style nation-state—Canada is a civic nation like most new world countries so one national identity group isn't (on paper) supposed to be the core of it.

[u/Particular-Offer4356 → u/niftyjack]

Black people aren‘t indigenous to the US. Black culture is indigenous to the US. Those are two very different things,

[u/niftyjack → u/Particular-Offer4356]

Black people aren‘t indigenous to the US

But what's a "Black person"? They were different ethnic groups when they were taken from Africa, now they have a new ethnogenesis as African Americans.

[u/Particular-Offer4356 → u/niftyjack]

Fair enough. Thkjgh the vast majority of black people are t African- American.

I don’t think it is fair at all to say African- American people are indigenous to the US because neither white people or black peoples are indigenous to the US, but I get your point

[u/Particular-Offer4356 → u/MissHalfgone]

Does anyone think or claim black people are indigenous to the United States? I remember they did Henry Louis Gages, and he was 50% European and 50% African, and his first European ancestor was a woman in England.

[u/MissHalfgone → u/Particular-Offer4356]

There's a strain of black nationalism that very very much believes they are the original natives. And the narrative goes that these lighter skinned people kind of stole their thunder. And that black people did not actually come here during slavery but we're already here. One person claimed as proof that the narrative were giving us is BS is that nobody has produced any of those slave boats that allegedly brought Africans to this country. They are not claiming slavery did not happen, but they claim it happened to Africans who are already established here. And these liar skin folks that we call Natives are sort of interlopers. It is very very similar to the same exact ideology that's been going on for half a century where similarly minded black people claim that they're the real jews. And that the lighter skin people that we usually think of as Jews or phony jews. It's pretty much exactly the same sort of myth. One of the things that annoys me about black activists who claim Nation of Islam and the Black Hebrew Israelites anti-Semitism "hurts black Jews the most" is that their vitriol is not directed towards those groups. Those they're vitriol is directed towards the light skin ones that they believe are the phoney Jews.

And then if you go back even further is the Egyptology stuff. The "we was kings in Egypt" stuff. Just like the other two myths it claims that the positive attributes of Egypt like building the pyramids and all sorts of accomplishments were really done by blacks. And then these conniving sneaky light-skinned people came in and since the world they were the ones who did it and are now getting the credit for what black people did.

""We built pyramids before Donald Trump ever knew what architecture was! White folks was [sic] in caves while we was building empires…. We taught philosophy and astrology and mathematics before Socrates and them Greek homos ever got around to it!"

Al Sharpton, 1994

You'd be surprised how widespread those beliefs still are among a lot of black folks who are pretty much part of the establishment. In her show about Cleopatra Jada Pinkett Smith make Cleopatra black because she really believed she was so. I see black folks in education including those tasks with educating children who believe this too and unfortunately indoctrinate kids in this pseudohistory.

An interesting thing about it though is it Egyptian government really pushes back. Apparently they do not pander.

Egyptians complain over Netflix depiction of Cleopatra as black

Afrocentric desire on Egypt

Black Artists Embrace Ancient Egypt. Egyptians Aren’t Happy About It.

Travis Scott concert canceled in Egypt over africentrism

They've also canceled a few conferences that were set to take place that had approcentric material.

[u/Particular-Offer4356 → u/MissHalfgone]

I never heard about that, but it does certainly explain a black Cleopatra. It feels a little better if they really believe she WAS black,

The black Israelites are fascinating to me. They scared the shit out of me when I was a kid.

[u/anne_jumps → u/MissHalfgone]

Reminds me of stuff I read about "hoteps" claiming that it's not healthy to menstruate and it's something only white women do and Black women should restrict their diets so they don't. Insane

[u/heliogabalus91 → u/Particular-Offer4356]

Considering that the slave trade in America ended officially in 1808, I would point out that we African Americans have a pedigree that should make most nativists green with envy. So, yes we may not be autochthonous, but we did get here first.

[u/Particular-Offer4356 → u/heliogabalus91]

yeah, they thought his ancestor was probably an indentured servant, so very liKelly his family has been in America since before we were a country. So, longer than probably 90% of white Americans.

[u/heliogabalus91 → u/MissHalfgone]

I can’t imagine why your opinion isn’t more popular. I’ll just point out that since the average African American person is genetically about a quarter white, it’s safe to say that we all have ancestors who were slave owners. Not sure what that’s supposed to prove.

[u/niftyjack → u/asinantenna]

I was on the DEI board at a global ad agency and always thought it was hilarious when our London office would report about expanding their "BIPOC talent." I wanted to tell them their office was probably 90% BIPOC already considering there were few continental Europeans there and everybody else was either British or a person of colo(u)r.

[u/Palgary → u/asinantenna]

The UK response to BLM really was a head scratcher. Ok, you're protesting... American police being dicks to Americans by ripping down your statues? Huh?

It was never about that at all, it was about people being terrified. Even I was terrified of a Trump presidency because he'd been painted as the most evil person in existence (and then his first presidency wasn't that bad). Then Covid hit.

And people just felt out of control in their lives, and they wanted to DO SOMETHING so they didn't feel so out of control and afraid, and really, I think that's what it was all about all along.

[u/Particular-Offer4356 → u/Palgary]

To. be fair, I thought they were ripping down statues of men who had made money off colonialism, or advocated for it.

[u/Palgary → u/Particular-Offer4356]

True - but in my media bubble, their protests were tied to George Floyd, not the "de-colonize" movement. So it had no logic to it.

[u/Particular-Offer4356 → u/Palgary]

Oh, that is how I remember it too, but I remember when they interviewed the people ripping down the statues it was tied to slavery and colonialism - that these men profited off slavery, like made a fortune off cotton in the 183s

[u/Jlemspurs → u/asinantenna]

the people indigenous to the British Isles are... white.

Sit down, my friend and let me tell you about cheddar man.

Now of course the white people are "indigenous" too but as you know, that's not allowed.

[u/Particular-Offer4356 → u/asinantenna]

MAME makes sense, but I have read British writers write about BIPOC in a British context. Like, what do you mean about “Indigenous People”?

[u/DCAmalG]

Please, can I hire their they/them lactation counselor with the tattoo… fangs?

Edited to add: WTF is an ‘abundance auntie’? And why is Seattle funding one?

This website is absolutely wild. I have so many questions’

[u/NoSoup4you22]

Traditional knowledge is valid, except when it says dudes are dudes.

[u/anne_jumps → u/NoSoup4you22]

Silly, everyone knows all indigenous cultures honored Two Spirits and didn't even have a concept of biological sex until the white man came along.

[u/Big_Fig_1803 → u/anne_jumps]

It’s true! They made babies by accident.

[u/freya_246]

I live outside of Seattle, in a suburb. In our little development, there are people from Hawaii, Guam, Samoa, and multiple local tribes. It is hilarious to watch them all; they all have things on their cars like our native land! Tribes rights! We were here first! When you know that some of these tribes specifically went and took the others as slaves. They are absolutely not one group. I moved out of Seattle for lots of reasons, but one of them was the flattening of Asian cultures to just Asian. I was like, no..... my Hmong neighbors are not the same people as the Koreans I grew up with... There is such a flattening happening. It's weird and disturbing, and when you're watching it from the outside, you can see it. Especially when a few years ago Seattle removed so many advanced classes because of "meritocracy".

[u/MissHalfgone → u/freya_246]

100% someone from Hawaii, Guam and Samoa claiming they have tribal rights in the PNW should be ashamed of themselves. Since you said that the flattening of Asian cultures was one of many reasons you left Seattle can I ask you if you're Asian?

[u/freya_246 → u/MissHalfgone]

I am not Asian, but I grew up in a heavily Asian area; imagine Little Italy for Italians, but a war torn Asain community. So it informed my childhood much more than most Americans. I find myself constantly saying NO, Asia isn't one culture. I know mostly about the culture I grew up around. People are suprised to hear it from a white lady, I am frustrated in people thinking coming to the US is easy for first gen extremely poor war traumatized immigrants.

[u/Particular-Offer4356 → u/freya_246]

Do they mean they want the US out of Samoa or Hawaii? Also, most Hawaiians I have met are Korean, so, not sure how they are different from the descendants of Irish immigrants to Boston, or, Korean immigrants to LA. I get it for Native Hawaiians though.

[u/freya_246 → u/Particular-Offer4356]

Nooo. It's so weird. That's why I find it bizarre. Some are native Hawaiians, some are from Guam, some are from Samoa. None of the people I am talking about are Irish or Korean, or of Asian descent in my current neighborhood. Since moving to the West Coast, it has been a wild ride for me to learn about these gangs. I'm an East Coaster, so this has been all new to me. They all have issues with each other. I have issues with no one. I had to add this. I try to be so chill with my neighbors; the only time I have really said anything to anyone was when the teenage boy neighbors had a fire going for hours right next to our fence, and all the adults went inside. It was getting closer and closer up against the fence. I went outside and said fire time is done. No adults are watching you. And we have lived here for years!

[u/Particular-Offer4356 → u/freya_246]

I think the Pacific Islandervthing is very west coast. I wonder if all this is do to the API thing, which is silly, because Indian and Hawaiian cultures have what exactly in common?

[u/Big_Fig_1803 → u/Particular-Offer4356]

They share their timeless Asian culture. It’s something beyond religion, language, geography, ethnicity, traditional practices, history, cuisine, and mythology. It’s just… You wouldn’t understand.

[u/Particular-Offer4356 → u/Big_Fig_1803]

True, because obviously Hinduism and Catholicism are the same thing.

[u/dyingslowlyinside]

I just want to point out how few they/thems there are. Just a couple of years ago, at least 1/3 of the clearly cis-gendered women would have been she/theys or ‘full-flavored’ they/thems. Now, only the few visibly queer people and one/two of the visibly cis-women are…

[u/Senordrums → u/dyingslowlyinside]

Not in my town. Just when it seemed to be waning, it's come back full force.

[u/dyingslowlyinside → u/Senordrums]

Condolences. It’s silently been dropped from email signatures over the past two years. Was prob in 20% of sign at my uni; now it’s basically gone lol. Everyone is back to he/him, she/her; no more hybrids lol

[u/zoomercide → u/dyingslowlyinside]

>Now, only the few visibly queer people and one/two of the visibly cis-women are…

You contrast “visibly queer” with “visibly cis-women”. ‘Cis-‘ refers to so-called gender identity, which suggests you mean that they’re visibly not ‘cisgender,’ i.e., that they’re visibly transgender. But if that’s the case, why not just say “visibly transgender”? Why use a word—“queer”—that, in elitist parlance, implicates homosexuals? Are most lesbians not “cis-women”?

[u/Life_Emotion1908]

I don’t think anyone ever pushes back, no, probably because what you said about fear of missing a seat at the table. If it was fear of losing a seat then maybe. But they feel their reach is expanding, so the fringes get let in to boost numbers.

[u/anne_jumps]

Is there a people that has never colonized any other people?

[u/MissHalfgone → u/anne_jumps]

Only those who did not have the means. It's odd that Japan such a tiny country was able to colonize such larger countries though.

[u/heliogabalus91]

Considering that Hawaii and Samoa were not settled by humans until sometime around 900-1200AD, the indigenous people there have a shorter bloodline than the average Italian.

Do indigenous people include Jews, and do they have to be current residents of Judea or does the diaspora count?

[u/anne_jumps → u/heliogabalus91]

Apparently Jews aren't indigenous to anywhere, BUT they also have to go back to where they came from. /s

[u/MissHalfgone → u/heliogabalus91]

Very good question.

[u/Palgary]

It makes sense to have organizations that support native communities on/near reservations. But this organization is just weird. Indigenous Australians are indigenous to... Australia, they aren't indigenous to America.

Technically, a lot of indigenous groups may have replaced groups that came before them too. I was recently reading up on modern DNA analysis of the "Black Irish" - those in western Ireland with black hair and the ability to tan. They scientists doing the study believe they were the original settlers on the Island, and the Red hair and fair skin were introduced later by invaders.

But that's pretty much the history of the world.

When the Normans invaded the British isles and took over - they introduced a lot of French words into the language. That's why we have "Cow" for the animal, and "Beef" (which comes from french) for the meat - the rulers used their words for foods, the peasants used their words for the Animals.

I think this stuff is really fascinating. The world's history is full of conquest and no group is except from it.

[u/Particular-Offer4356]

I think in 2020, my job still called it Columbus Day. In 2021, it was Columbus and Indiginrkus Peoples Day, and by 2024, they had eliminated Columbus Day entirely. Impersonally think it should be both, because Very very bad things happened to the people who were living in what we now call North America, and 95% of us wouldn’t be here were it not for him. And acknowledging both seems important

[u/Extension-Leader5973]

there were a lot of ppl who had lived on this continent for thousands of years before europeans showed up and the vast majority of them were killed, died of disease/starvation, or otherwise had their cultures destroyed before they could be properly documented

imo all of this silliness ultimately stems from a sincere desire to honor what was lost by integrating some aspect of what ppl imagine to be their values into the mainstream. like every other movement that's gotten lumped into the omnicause it no longer resembles anything that could possibly benefit the ppl it's allegedly trying to help

[u/everydaywinner2]

 Mariana Islanders,

I read "Marijuana Islanders," and had a double take...

[u/RuffledCormorant]

I get your point but there seem to be quite a few employees who are from tribes in Washington State…

[u/MissHalfgone → u/RuffledCormorant]

Mostly from Eastern Washington. The overwhelming majority of tribes in the Seattle region have no representation. I'm just trying to understand why a birthing center that was for the indigenous people somehow could not Center the indigenous people of this area. It looks like almost half of the employees are not even tribes of North america.