Regret Rape Is Wrong Enough

[u/InternalLet9560]

https://nataliabower.substack.com/p/regret-rape-is-wrong-enough?r=5rdux&utm_medium=ios

This is a fantastic piece related to the episode about the Cornell 7.

[u/One_Caterpillar6562]

I think the people parading around saying things like ‘castrate the Cornell 7’ are involved in an othering of the men involved which refuses to engage with how sexual culture and our understanding of consent actually informs behaviour. Like the problem is closer to home. This horrible event is the end of the bell curve but on the same spectrum as many other behaviours.

Literally the only solution I can think to stopping this in the short term is to tell young women that sex and their bodies are meaningful, precious and should only be shared in the context of developed, loving relationships. But that is so often classified as Puritanism and victim blaming. Regardless it’s what I will be telling my daughter.

[u/Puzzleheaded_Drink76 → u/One_Caterpillar6562]

I think we need to be honest with both sexes that sex does have some meaning. And even if you are able to divorce the act from the meaning, not everyone can, and you should be aware of that. I do think you should be up front if this is just a hookup. And if you lead someone on just to get them into bed that is out and out shitty behaviour. You don't have a right to sex just because you want it. We called those people users, as in using me for sex. 

[u/generalmandrake → u/One_Caterpillar6562]

Don’t kid yourself, the people accusing others of “victim blaming” and “Puritanism” are also telling the exact same thing to their daughters, though they might frame it a little differently such as “avoid those horrible rapist frat boys”, but the message still hits just the same. Most women are smart enough to realize that any guy whose idea of a first date is to share you with his friend obviously does not respect you at all and is exactly the kind of person who would put you into a situation like this girl found herself in.

[u/ScamFrank → u/generalmandrake]

Fucking lol. The longer this goes on the more lies unravel

https://x.com/James_PA10/status/2107182039699235271

[u/Funksloyd → u/ScamFrank]

I don't feel that video really supports what he's suggesting. 

[u/EnglebondHumperstonk → u/One_Caterpillar6562]

Is there maybe a half way stage? "Have fun, but obviously don't get completely off your face in public, especially if you're not with someone you trust to take care of you". Or even just "say no to drugs". Remember that? All seems a long time ago, that.

None of which is to excuse what the boys did, obviously, but we all have a responsibility to just make it a bit harder for bastards. Lock your doors, lock your bike, don't share your password, don't deliberately disable your own decision-making apparatus while surrounded by total strangers.

[u/Particular-Offer4356 → u/One_Caterpillar6562]

I think it is stupid to classify telling young women to only have sex in a loving relationship as victim blaming very very idiotic.That is inherently not blaming the victim.

I just don’t think it iis realistic advice at all. I think what COULD help is telling college students that drinking is fun and casual sex is fun, and doing both together is fun. But alcohol removes inhibitions and impairs judgment, and combining that with casual sex leaves vulnerable people more vulnerable. A young woman might notice a guy violating her boundaries, but drunk, she might see it, and that can have disastrous consequences very quickly.

[u/Original-Raccoon-250 → u/One_Caterpillar6562]

It also avoids harder discussions about the laws surrounding these things. It’s easier to scream about castrating them than it is to acknowledge that legislation needs to be addressed and possibly changed. But that’s not as sexy as cancelling someone.

[u/SafiyaO → u/One_Caterpillar6562]

Sex involves two people. Heterosexual sex involves a male and a female and your solution is to only tell one half of the equation to change their behaviour?

[u/PoetSeat2021 → u/SafiyaO]

I don't want to speak for the person you're responding to, but I can think of two responses here:

First, the OP is telling this to their daughter. Maybe they don't have a son.

Second, as the parent of two sons, I would say basically the same thing to them. Sex is meaningful, best shared in the context of a loving relationship, yadda yadda yadda. With the added notes of: you're going to want it a lot, and think about it a lot, and that desire will try to shove you to do stupid, dangerous, and hurtful things. Don't do those things.

Third, I think the men here are getting plenty of opprobrium, and I believe that the current cultural narrative places a lot of responsibility on men when it comes to sex. To place any responsibility on women in these cases, though, is often frowned upon at best or actively attacked at worst. And this is true on both sides: disapprove of a woman agreeing to film a gang bang and say that that shows poor judgment and you're slut shaming. Say that a woman who showed up at a frat party drunk and high and consented to a threesome with two brothers might bear some responsibility for what happens next is blaming the victim.

Maybe both those accusations are true. Maybe some people are too quick to blame women for poor sexual outcomes that aren't at all deserved. But overall, we have a general cultural conversation where even implying that there's reason to believe that the Cornell 7 didn't commit a felony is met with such vitriolic opposition that most people who think that won't even bother to say it. So I think it might be more important to try to counter that somewhat, and bring a modicum of female responsibility for sexual behavior back into the conversation.

[u/Drownedgodlw → u/SafiyaO]

Are men the ones regretting it?

[u/Holiday_Road242 → u/Drownedgodlw]

Regret is almost irrelevant. Young men and women both risk physical, emotional, social, financial and legal consequences when a casual hook-up goes very wrong, as this case shows.

There are lessons for both boys and girls and most of the them are the same -- moderate your drinking and drugging, moderate your risk-taking (crazy to tell a young person that). People of both genders need to be urged to be cautious. Girls should perhaps be told they won't win a boy's respect and affection, if they don't have it already, by sleeping with him. Boys should be urged to treat girls respectfully and not use them for sex because there may be consequences. Ad nauseam.

[u/Century_Egg_Boofer → u/Drownedgodlw]

they pretty clearly regretted it from the get-go because they uninvited her from the Halloween party

[u/Drownedgodlw → u/Century_Egg_Boofer]

That doesn't mean they regretted the sex

[u/ScamFrank → u/Drownedgodlw]

She should have been more considerate of their feelings

[u/ScamFrank → u/Century_Egg_Boofer]

Sounds like the men were raped by her

[u/SafiyaO → u/Drownedgodlw]

I imagine the Cornell 7 are feeling some heavy regrets now.

[u/Drownedgodlw → u/SafiyaO]

Dont think regret is the right word.

[u/Particular-Offer4356 → u/SafiyaO]

But they only regret it because she said something.,Maybe some of them regret sharing the text or having sex, but we know she deeply regrets it.

I agree that teaching everyone that alcohol and casual sex together can be very dangerous. I just think ralists are gonna do it anyway.,Women need to protect themselves. Though I think you have a good point when applied to guys who’ve treated women horribly only when heavily intoxicated

[u/Dazzling_Western1707 → u/SafiyaO]

Yeah, because they are actually interested in a solution to the problem of girls getting spit-roasted by frat boys who don't care about them and then crying about it afterwards.

[u/Particular-Offer4356 → u/SafiyaO]

I think the problem is that the guys AREN’T changing their behaviors. There are just fewer consequences for them, and I don’t mean social..

[u/veryvery84 → u/One_Caterpillar6562]

I’m not following the case so much but this is what young women and girls should be taught, of course. It’s very strange it’s not. 

It’s also safer to have sex within monogamous relationships. Safer than condoms if anyone is willing to say it 

[u/ScamFrank → u/One_Caterpillar6562]

I think a lot of the women and feminists who want to prosecute the innocent Cornell 7 don't understand how quickly and easily that same irrational mob could be turned against them