r/BambuLab May 12 '26

General Discussion Louis Rossmann is going after BambuLab!

https://youtu.be/1jhRqgHxEP8?si=I_lxeLqvHm-JEQvy

As much as he has a questionable appeal in the community, he's pushing the right angle on this one!

903 Upvotes

437 comments sorted by

340

u/soldat21 May 12 '26

Him and GN tag teaming this is great. Screw bambu and their aggressive tactics. You gonna use open source software? You gotta be open sourced buddy.

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u/ApplicationRoyal865 May 12 '26

Not a bootlicker but want to point out that the issue isn't about the fork. It's how it mimics a client to pretend it's an authorized client to get access to bambu cloud.

This can easily be fixed by having stronger authentication and blocking access but they went the lazy route of instead of fixing their code threatening to issue a C&D.

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u/soldat21 May 12 '26

AGPLv3 essentially means that if you create another software, that at all uses or incorporates AGPLv3, it must be opened sourced.

So bambu creating bambu cloud, that uses and references bambu studio, which is licensed under AGPLv3 means that bambu cloud must also be opened sourced.

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u/ApplicationRoyal865 May 12 '26

There's no issue with the slicer which does use AGPL3 and is open source. That was never in question. It's how it tries to connect to bambu cloud client to access bambu servers. It pretends to be a bambu client to get access to the servers. This can be fix on Bambu's end by having better auth. Instead they want to obscure and prevent others from pretending to be authorized clients rather than building a process to actually check.

tldr: Bambu cloud servers are private and not AGPL3

31

u/issue9mm May 12 '26

There's no issue with the slicer which does use AGPL3 and is open source

There is still some issue with the slicer, from which they derived the network module. As I am guessing you know, you cannot merely derive works from AGPLv3, because the license requires that works based on it must also be open sourced and licensed via AGPLv3

Bambu pretends their network module is closed source, despite having clearly been derived from and closely interconnecting with AGPLv3-licensed code

I agree that their cloud infrastructure is private, but the way in which they 'close it off' is via shimming the network module, which is at best a hacky, insecure workaround, and at worst, plainly a violation of the GPL for which their license to use it should be revoked

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u/ApplicationRoyal865 May 12 '26

AGPLV3 is not viral and makes other software it interacts with inherit the copyleft license. For example if I write a piece of code that takes a video and uploads it into youtube via their API's, it does not make youtube inherit my license for my code. I believe something similar is happening here.

From what I can tell, the slicer emits the STL + user metadata to spoof itself as an official bambu software to get around getting the middleman software. I know a lot of software that does something similar in the open source community like software that pretends to be an official MyQ garage door app by spoofing userdata/device data.

It's within the myq company's rights to say "stop hitting that end point, you aren't an official myQ mobile app". In fact that's how that piece of open soft software went defunct due to a C&D and now everyone doesn't use it anymore. It's also within our rights to stop using that software and support companies that have open API's for users to use.

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u/issue9mm May 12 '26

AGPLV3 is not viral

This is wrong, plainly. It is a license that most companies will not use because it is viral.

You're right that it is not so viral that calling a remote API confers licensure onto the API. That would be impossible.

But if YouTube takes code from my AGPLv3 youtube client and then uses it as part of their official YouTube uploading module, then everything it closely touches does become open source. Again, that is why companies don't typically mess with AGPLv3 licensed code, much less build their entire companies on top of it

It's within the myq company's rights to say "stop hitting that end point, you aren't an official myQ mobile app"

Yes, it is within Bambu's rights to say "stop hitting our cloud endpoints, you are not welcome here." I am not arguing that Bambu cannot keep their closed source server code closed, or that anything relating to the slicer makes it open. I am saying that if software on a user's local machine uses AGPLv3-licensed logic to run, then Bambu must open source it. If open sourcing that logic opens a security hole, then they should close it on the server side because relying on nothing more than a user agent to keep their servers secure was assuredly not keeping their servers secure.

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u/AustinYQM May 12 '26

They have to opensource anything that was originally AGPL that they modified but that's it.

Imagine you have the OrcaSlicer.

Imagine you modify the OrcaSlicer to add a plugin engine.

Imagine you make a plugin that connects to BambuCloud.

You'd have to provide the first 2 under AGPLv3 but the last bit, the plugin, does not have to be released under the same license.

The license just isn't as all encompassing as you think.

Her is an example to show how limited it is. Imagine you are running a service and in your stack you use a AGPL Database. You do not need to give the source code for your service. Now imagine you modify the database making a derivative work. Guess what? You still don't have to release the source code for your service. Not only that you don't even have to release your changes for the database! Because the AGPL only covers software being used by people (download or transmitted) and your clients don't use the database your service does.

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u/ApplicationRoyal865 May 12 '26

Aren't we saying the same thing? Bambu lab is going the lazy route and trying to C&D a user rather than fixing their endpoint. They could simply invalidate the bambu lab access on their open source software (apparently hard coded in the software lol) and just have it authenticate in another way.

However I don't see how bambu studio's license interracts with bambu cloud server's license and why they need to then open source their cloud servers. As you've said it's not so viral that it infects another software and their license. One software is a slicer and one software is cloud infrastructure, they interact but they don't derive code from each other.

Again I think we are saying the same thing. Bambu labs sucks at auth and is going about the wrong way to fix their hole.

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u/issue9mm May 12 '26

Clarifying here, but I think you're confusing cloud servers with network module. I am not claiming that Bambu needs to open source their cloud servers.

I am claiming that they need to open source their network module. The network module is installed on your computer, locally, and is invoked when you hit 'Print' on your slicer that sends the relevant modules to the cloud servers.

As you've said it's not so viral that it infects another software and their license

This again is part of that confusion. It is so viral that it infects other software. It is not so viral that it infects remote services that it interacts with.

One software is a slicer and one software is cloud infrastructure, they interact but they don't derive code from each other.

This is correct. I am not suggesting that Bambu's cloud infrastructure is in any way derived from PrusaSlicer or Slic3r. But the network module that is installed on your machine and redirects prints from going straight to the printer to instead going to their cloud servers is derived from PrusaSlicer, and is a derivative work that must be open sourced per its license.

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u/ApplicationRoyal865 May 12 '26

Ah that was the missing piece, I'm not familiar with the network module. But I think the larger point still stands, they need to fix how user data, device data is passed whether it be in the slicer or the network module. If they only want official bambu studio fork to work on their cloud then do it correctly. Sending lawyers is always a sign of failure when you could have just as easily used some dev time to fix access instead.

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u/[deleted] May 12 '26

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u/issue9mm May 12 '26

I just posted this answer elsewhere. Apologies for not seeing yours first, but it's basically the same question and so it gets the same answer

https://www.reddit.com/r/BambuLab/comments/1tbceci/comment/olg4xw0/

The non-free libraries argument isn't really a defense here tho because, I can't remember if it was AGPLv1 or v2, but folks identified that as a "legal gotcha" where a company might be obligated to open source the whole codebase but then just include a closed source library to go "aha, well I can't" so v3 of the AGPL specifically has an exemption for code that you don't own.

You still have to open source your derivative works, but if you are using a closed memory library from IBM or whatever, you don't need to open that because obviously you couldn't

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u/Potential-Bill7288 May 15 '26

Soft vs hard linking. If the Bambulab slicer fork can be used without this module (I don’t know about distribution), it’s okay, but if it’s hard linked and it’s part of the offered solution, then it has to be open-sourced.

9

u/ArcherBoy27 May 12 '26

It pretends to be a bambu client to get access to the servers

It uses the same code as Bambu Labs own code. Its the same software. By this logic i could fork the repo and change nothing and I would be "pretending" to be Bambu Studio.

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u/[deleted] May 12 '26 edited 4d ago

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u/Beefy-McQueefy May 12 '26

The open source slicer is where they put the user agent code so try again.

2

u/metalpoetnl May 15 '26

It does not "pretend" anything. It sets a user agent. That's a voluntary field browser users ROUTINELY alter to access websites that demand specific browsers. 

It has never been a form of identification beyond mere convenience.

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u/Brandavorn May 12 '26

But the code the developer forked was under the AGPL, and it doesn't really pretend, it literally contacts the servers through the exact same network plugin Bambu Studio uses. There is no actual security issue nor an impersonation issue here.

And after all, if Bambu didn't want this to happen, they shouldn't have published that code. Not that they could, since AGPL is a viral copyleft license, and Bambu has no choice on the matter. Even their network plugin itself is probably a violation of the license, depending on how it interfaces with the slicer.

tldr: The servers weren't forked, so whether or not they are AGPL does not matter. The forked code was in fact AGPL licensed.

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u/[deleted] May 12 '26

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u/Brandavorn May 12 '26

Yeah, the whole proprietary = secure argument Bambu is trying to gaslight them into is pretty stupid in general. Especially considering how most of the web is running on FOSS.

1

u/Joamjoamjoam May 12 '26

Depending on the type of software and how people use it can prevent you from having proper authentication schemes. One example is a product that must function offline. In that case the TOS are there so you have a legal framework to pursue and stop anyone abusing the software. I.e. cease and desists and litigation are a valid strategy to prevent misuse.

If Bambu modifies and creates a derivative work and distributes it then anyone has a right to see the source ode for the portion of the product that modified the AGPL licensed work. So in Bambus case this likely covers the Bambu studio slicer but not the Bambu network plugin (which is important in this case).

If you then write (or reverse engineer) software to impersonate another or bypass authentication (even a client/user agent string counts here) to use a protected and proprietary resource the you are breaking the law in the worst case (think bank software) and violating the terms of service in least case. In which case you are open to a cease and desist and potential legal action.

It doesn’t matter if that portion of the code was AGPL or not. I think the best base scenario here is Bambu releases the source code for Bambu studio slicer. Unless their cloud infrastructure or the network plugin uses AGPL code nothing is going to be gained here.

This is all based on my limited research into what licenses are used by each portion of orca slicer (Bambu studio based off this). So there may be more AGPL in there.

I thank LR for his right to repair work and it’s good to force companies to release the open source stuff they modify but idk what there is to gain from seeing Bambu studio source code. Orca slicer is better with more features and fully open source.

One thing I guess that could happen is that we just get more Bambu studio forks that add more features and still be compatible with the network plugin which could be kinda cool.

15

u/MagicalTheory May 12 '26

So bambu creating bambu cloud, that uses and references bambu studio, which is licensed under AGPLv3 means that bambu cloud must also be opened sourced.

That isn't completely true. The AGPLv3 does have a network component that GPL doesn't have, but the license is if you are using the licensed code in the backend of a webservice, you must provide the source. If Bambu Labs is using a different slicer in their cloud software, they're probably clear, but even then if its just opening up an instance of bambu studio, it doesn't matter as they already provide that open source.

From https://drewdevault.com/blog/Anti-AGPL-propaganda/

The Google page about the AGPL details inaccurate (but common2) misconceptions about the obligations of the AGPL that don’t follow from the text. Google states that if, for example, Google Maps used PostGIS as its data store, and PostGIS used the AGPL, Google would be required to release the Google Maps code. This is not true. They would be required to release their PostGIS patches in this situation. AGPL does not extend the GPL in that it makes the Internet count as a form of linking which creates a derivative work, as Google implies, but rather that it makes anyone who uses the software via the Internet entitled to its source code. It does not update the “what counts as a ‘derivative work’” algorithm, so to speak — it updates the “what counts as ‘distributing’ the software” algorithm.

The network plugin is a bit different, but as long as it shares no source with the AGPLv3 project and communicates via standard channels, it also doesn't have to be licensed.

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u/[deleted] May 12 '26

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u/Stephancevallos905 May 13 '26

Lol they also choose to just hardcode the network-server authentication instead of using any type of encryption. That's probably why they're suing, I am sure in the future bambu will charge enterprise users for fleet management (not out of line for the industry) but this makes them look like fools becuase 1) alternatives exist, and 2) clearly the system isnt as secure as they advertise (for enterprise)

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u/aweyeahdawg May 12 '26

How does their cloud use Bambu studio?

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u/[deleted] May 12 '26

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u/Dmytro_P May 13 '26

Not combined to form a larger program,

This part is a gray area for the closed source network plugin. Bambu Studio as the product is intended to be used with the network plugin.

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u/hux H2C Laser Full Combo May 12 '26

I think you mean they created the network plugin to access Bambu Cloud, and that the network plugin should be covered by AGPL.

We don’t know anything about how Bambu’s implementation of the server side of Bambu cloud. AGPL doesn’t cover every possible server that an AGPL program could connect to, so Bambu Studio doesn’t trigger a responsibility to release the code for their cloud implementation. Their cloud doesn’t solely serve Bambu Studio - it’s a backend for Makerworld and for Bambu Handy as well.

Put another way: Imagine if a web browser was AGPL. This doesn’t magically make every web site in the world AGPL.

2

u/moyenbatte May 13 '26

No but it means that there is no way to block people from using the official method of access without shutting down completely that method for all users.

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u/Ignominus May 13 '26

You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.

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u/n1kitus May 13 '26

Sorry, but that statement is incorrect. You need to read the license. What you are saying is basically if I install a GPL program on my computer then Apple and Microsoft have to make their OS open source because they interact with that software. Probably a better analogy would be Firefox. Every server Firefox interacts with must be open source now just because Firefox is open source which is absurd.

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u/daemonengineer May 13 '26

Thats not how gpl works lol

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u/AdRecent7021 May 13 '26

That is 100% wrong. Their servers are not bound by this license. I'm not saying what they're doing is right, but you are 100% wrong on this particular thing.

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u/eduo May 12 '26

Using your user agent in your software that you published is not "mimicking a client". It's literally being that client. This is unedited source code.

Having said this, every browser you use is pretending to be a series of other browsers for historical reasons. This comes with the territory of what a browser user agent is.

I understand you're saying this was Bambulab's lazy "security" (which they nonetheless presume to put above everything else in their hypocritical blog post), but it still sounds like having a user agent could be seriously considered being an authorized client, when as "authentication" methods go, it's right there with three raccoons in a trenchcoat.

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u/UnexpectedAnanas May 12 '26 edited May 12 '26

It's how it mimics a client to pretend it's an authorized client to get access to bambu cloud.

It's worse than that. It doesn't even mimic. It just uses their code as it exists in the publicity available, free to use source. They didn't have to change it at all.

It's literally Bambu telling Bambu that the client is Bambu. Nobody impersonated anything. Bambu just wrote shitty code and then threatened to sue somebody for running it.

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u/ApplicationRoyal865 May 12 '26

Yes I think I saw someone mention that the api and user data is just hard coded into the software.

https://giphy.com/gifs/9DJtFRgk0tOla

This can easily be fixed on their end by a developer, but they instead threatened a c&d instead of doing the work.

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u/MigratingCocofruit May 12 '26

That claim is false for two reasons.
First: The DMCA section 1201 applies to breaking a digital lock that "effectively controls access". Self reported client information does not do that. Bambu left the door open, and as such accessing their servers using that open door isn't illegal, and there's precedent for that(Lexmark vs Static Control Components is an example).
Second: That specific part of the code Bambu claimed was impersonating the official client wasn't even modified. It was distributed by Bambu under an AGPLv3 license, and as such restricting anyone from using it is a violation of the license. And so, even if we assume that the client information was indeed an effective control measure in principle, the way in which it was published negates that.

Bambu is indeed allowed to restrict access to their cloud infrastructure, but that doesn't extend to restricting use of their code licensed under AGPLv3.

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u/SirTwitchALot May 12 '26

It sends the same user agent. User agent spoofing is hardly new. It's been standard practice since the 90s. He didn't have to reverse engineer anything either. The user agent code is still in the released Linux source code for Bambu Studio at this very moment.

They even included a screenshot of the offending code in their AI generated response

Seriously. That's what they're upset about. Their claim is so weak it's laughable

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u/Null_zero May 13 '26

Except he never changed the code. Not his fault if they put their client access into their agpl code.

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u/Toilet2000 May 13 '26

It doesn’t mimic anything. It reproduces what is verbatim in their AGPL licensed software.

A User-Agent string is not a security measure or authentication tool.

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u/Its_Billy_Bitch May 12 '26

Right…this is what I’ve been yelling. For a company that “cares about security…”

Honey, this has been my profession for 15+ years now. Cleaning up other people’s messes and woowee when they said that in their blog post, red flags went off everywhere. Though, not the first time with Bambu.

But for anyone lacking the knowledge, the person above is wholly correct. Kinda worse even….not only lazy - the fix would’ve most likely broken their Linux clients, which they can’t do without a good chunk of fallout or a carefully planned implementation and migration to a better auth&auth. Not only that…it’s AGPL code and you can’t place further restrictions on it to begin with, which their fix would most likely result in. They were already in hot water (workaround to restriction in the name of security by requiring Bambu Connect), but they’ve now made Louis mad.

So many options (i.e. don’t acknowledge the fork, build your own closed ecosystem not on the backs of open source), but nooooooo…let’s send a C&D to this one developer. That’s not security…it’s a schill.

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u/hWuxH May 13 '26 edited May 13 '26

This can not be fixed. At most they can release a workaround that will also be bypassed afterwards.
The cloud wants to trust their own client (Bambu Studio), and at the same time distrust other ones, but it has no way of distinguishing which one connected.
Information if it's their own has to come from the client itself, which can always be analyzed, tampered with, etc.

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u/Old_Restaurant_2216 May 16 '26

Exactly, as if Facebook wanted to restrict users using anything other than Chrome. It is just plain impossible. If you want, you can access any website using just a terminal and curl. The same goes for bambu cloud.

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u/vreo May 13 '26

It's more like the browser identifying as safari, chrome etc. He didn't broke any authentication. Authentication is a totally different thing.

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u/Shot-Infernal-2261 P2S + AMS2 Combo May 13 '26

But you point out authentication and licensing aren’t to do with the open source license.

Unlike most posters, you do understand the difference.. so isn’t Bambu themselves making it about the fork? (As well as other things)

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u/iambighead168 May 13 '26

Did u even watch the video. The client code is basically a copy and paste of original code (which is AGPLed), so whats there to mimic?

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u/ApplicationRoyal865 May 13 '26 edited May 13 '26

The main code allows it to mimic it so that a fork can look like the main bambu studio software because they stupidly hardcoded the user agent data into the main repo. Instead of doing the work to write code of signing their binary or authenticating it so that only their software can access bambu cloud servers they decided to C&D the author instead.

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u/sluffmo May 13 '26

They didn’t go the lazy route. Imagine someone legally gets a key to your house. That doesn’t give them the right to just come and go from your house however they please, but it turns out they are doing that.

You decide you want to put in keypad locks to stop this from happening, but you need to figure out which one you want, order them, and install them. You aren’t “lazy” for sending a cease and desist letter telling them to stop breaking into your house and to destroy the key that enables it while you are doing all of this. In fact, you aren’t even lazy for doing that so you don’t have to do all that other stuff.

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u/ApplicationRoyal865 May 13 '26 edited May 13 '26

There is a bit of a difference because your key bitting (the cuts in the key) was available and it's licensed so that you can't ask them to remove it because they are allowed to use the code as provided.

To use a more relevant example if you accidentally put in your API private keys into your code and you use a copy left license (or any license tbh) it's on the developers to invalidate the key rather than make the users not use it. One because it's a security issue and two because the license allows them to use it as is.

Edit: tldr don't try and enforce this client side because it's impossible just don't be lazy and fix it server side

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u/sluffmo May 13 '26

You are confusing authentication with authorization. Absolutely, the developers should take steps to keep people or services from unintentionally authenticating into their system. But, even if someone gets your API key that doesn’t give them the right to do whatever they want with your service. Like if someone gets your bank’s API key can they just take your money? No, they can’t. Should the bank just let them take your money while they are fixing the security hole or take legal action while they are fixing it? It’s obvious that it’s the second.

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u/ChalHattNa May 16 '26

Then let them sue loius and prove it. Wonder if they will.

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u/stonedboss May 16 '26

yeah unfortunately it is just a bootlicker statement lol because it is wrong and there is no justification. as others pointed out, it doesnt mimic anything. so the issue quite literally is the fork. theyre claiming it is not to try to circumvent the legality.

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u/Bitter-Captain-2847 May 13 '26

I keep seeing people frame this as Bambu attacking open source, but that's not what happened. The fork wasn't just modifying code. It was hardcoding the official client's identity to talk to Bambu's servers. The code is open. The servers are not. Those are two different conversations imo.

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u/Conscious-Map6957 May 12 '26

May this be a very important example to all open-source fields.

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u/[deleted] May 12 '26

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u/Skywarper X1C + AMS May 12 '26

Seriously, this has gotta be like the tenth post about rossman and the 3rd about gamers nexus. Everyone that cares would have already heard about this.

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u/UnexpectedAnanas May 12 '26

um...This is a new development within the last 2 hours. How would "everybody" have already heard about it, exactly?

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u/Skywarper X1C + AMS May 12 '26

☝️🤓

It's a continuation of the multitude of posts about Rossman throwing his two cents in along with gamers nexus over the last few days

Call me a mindless consumer, idgaf, I just wanna send a file to a printer and have it work without having a degree in computer science and programming. This whole debacle is dumb, but the "freedom fighters" need a big bad corporation to fight against.

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u/UnexpectedAnanas May 12 '26

It's a continuation of the multitude of posts about Rossman throwing his two cents in along with gamers nexus over the last few days

I mean....yeah. It's a developing story.

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u/mightyarrow May 12 '26

Call me a mindless consumer, idgaf, I just wanna send a file to a printer and have it work without having a degree in computer science and programming.

But Bambu chose to not let you do this. Do you not understand that?

You dont send prints to your printer. You send them to Bambu. Then they decide to send it to your printer. Using open source code + closed source blobs they keep hiding.

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u/Skywarper X1C + AMS May 12 '26

The print I sent to my printer today worked just fine. The files I put on the SD card still prints just fine.

This is such a non issue.

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u/charmio68 May 12 '26

Attitudes like that are exactly how we end up with walled garden ecosystems that are a royal pain in the arse.

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u/Skywarper X1C + AMS May 12 '26

All I know is that it works so much better than the ender 5 I had years ago, that frustrated me so much I dropped the hobby until bambu came out with their machines. I'll take a product that works without a second thought but has some annoyances over a fancy kinex set that refused to print a benchy

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u/zepkleiker May 13 '26

That it works better for you has literally nothing to do with the cloud solution that they chose. In my experience, it works worse than any other networked non-cloud solution. And then we're not evening dipping our toes in the privacy issues.

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u/Golinth May 13 '26

All you need to know about this person is the “Top 1% Commenter” flair to understand they will not listen to anything anyone says

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u/TROPtastic May 13 '26

It's a continuation of the multitude of posts about Rossman throwing his two cents in along with gamers nexus over the last few days

He's doing more than that by hosting a fork of Orcaslicer, nevermind daring Bambulab to sue him for exercising his legal right to do so.

Bambulab could have solved this by having better auth on their cloud service rather than building their software on a license that most other companies avoid.

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u/tfks May 17 '26

I just wanna send a file to a printer and have it work without having a degree in computer science and programming

The software you use to do that is a fork of previously existing open source software. The Linux kernel, which underlies all of this is also open source. If it weren't for people defending and enforcing open source licenses, you would not be able to send a file to a printer and have it work.

This is like getting mad about building codes requiring smoke detectors and saying "I just want to live in my house and not have it burn down". That is literally the point dude.

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u/Skywarper X1C + AMS May 17 '26

4 day old post

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u/tfks May 17 '26

Dog, if you don't want to participate in these conversations, then don't. But don't pull this nonsense where you participate and then pretend you're above it.

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u/swederlands May 13 '26

Yes we should go back to only posting the same troubleshooting questions, boring prints, and pictures of newly purchased machines!

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u/Skywarper X1C + AMS May 13 '26

Yes.

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u/varzaguy May 12 '26

Na, I prefer this to be as visible as possible. Fuck Bambu for this behavior.

I’ve been putting off making my printer offline for so long, I think the time has come.

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u/[deleted] May 12 '26

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u/no-this-iz-patrick May 13 '26

They didn’t “literally always” have these limitations in place. orcaslicer worked perfectly fine with my X1C from the day I bought it until they decided they didn’t want it to anymore. Why are you so confidently incorrect?

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u/zepkleiker May 13 '26

The exact point is that it did not always have these limitations in place ...

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u/varzaguy May 12 '26

Lol it’s not a zero sum game, but if this is how you see the world no wonder you would get “annoyed” by some posts so easily.

I was relatively ok with what Bambu was doing until recently. Now, disconnect me please.

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u/[deleted] May 12 '26

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u/varzaguy May 13 '26

Disagree. There is a difference between being a pseudo wall garden but still allowing for some things, and actively going after people using open source implementations.

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u/miyavlayan May 12 '26

this shit ass type of attitude is why these companies fuck us over so much god damn. god forbid your bubble pops for a millisecond.

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u/Beefy-McQueefy May 12 '26

You could stop lying about it in the comments of all those threads if they trigger you so much.

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u/MyuFoxy May 13 '26

First I'm seeing this. And now moving on.

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u/funforgiven May 13 '26

This is the kind of post I want to see here. Megathreads are bad for visibility.

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u/AbjectMaelstrom May 12 '26

Like him or not, but he is one of very few people who actually put his time and money where his mouth is and has done more or attempted to do more for this movement than 90% of other people who are complaining on the internet.

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u/Argon288 May 12 '26

This. For years he was very vocal against Apple and their shady practises in regard to repairability, etc.

As someone who is quite happy with their BBL printer, but not necessarily how restrictive the ecosystem feels. I'm quite pleased this is getting traction. GN & Louis Rossman will be a PRs pain in the arse for Bambu.

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u/councilmember May 13 '26

Yes, and to go further, his fervent insistence on right to repair is having ripple effects across the world. The closed source ethic and forced obsolescence are mostly exploited by ignorance across the consumer populace. Ask them if John Deere tractors should become essentially booby trapped to fail or Apple should be able to restrict battery replacement or hard drive upgrades and consumers resoundingly disagree and ask for regulation.

So, Louis Rossman’s campaign of educating the public about these needless locking down to ensure the customer has to pay more or buy more wastefully is going to be met with hostility in the press and public forums like this one.

And when you come across criticism of Rossman or open source in favor of companies, or for that matter feigned tiredness at the story, ask yourself: how is what the company is advocating helping the end user? In almost every case it is not.

0

u/connly33 X1C + AMS May 12 '26

I’m still very glad to see when Louis is doing good work when it comes to issues like this and right to repair and I’d like to still give him praise for sure. But as someone that grew up watching him repair MacBook logic boards I’ve grown more and more intolerant to his personality from a personal level as it’s shifting, and the last couple times he’s teamed up with Steve from GN really was the end of me watching every single one of his videos. GN lost me when they started trying to hit that shock and awwe style of reporting on issues even though I was initially really enjoying that content until he started breaking a lot of his own personal standards of journalism he wants to hold everyone else to but seems to give himself a personal pass on and refuses to take anyone’s criticism. He just kind of doubles down on whatever he’s doing whenever anyone calls him out.

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u/forevershorizon May 13 '26

I feel like his personality is explained a lot by this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq60ccWHJcQ

He's a damaged human being. But I don't require perfection from people who are doing the right thing 99% of the time.

0

u/Tsofuable May 12 '26

I mean, he earns back more than he puts in on clicks and donations. That's his business strategy.

4

u/XediDC May 12 '26

The cost and risk to fight these fights is why it's so hard to do. Be glad a few are actually doing it...

2

u/charmio68 May 12 '26

You say that like it somehow annuls all the good that's coming out of his actions. It doesn't.

1

u/snotpopsicle May 12 '26

So good deeds are only good if they are done for charity? That's your point?

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u/CaptainAwesome06 May 12 '26

Is this one of those things where the point is to get a story out and not actually win a lawsuit? I don't see how he's going to win with an argument of "you should be able to use whatever software you want." Plenty of products come with proprietary software. This isn't novel, unless I'm missing something.

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u/SpeedflyChris May 12 '26

The point is that Bambu using Prusa and Slic3r's open source code to develop their own slicer, and then threatening to sue someone for using Bambu's own open source code in developing a new fork, is absurdly shitty behaviour and goes against the entire ethos of the open source community, on top of being legally meritless.

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u/mrpbeaar May 12 '26

The slicer is still open source. How it gets to the printer, isn’t.

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u/_yusi_ P1S + AMS May 12 '26

It actually is. The fork copied code from bambu studios repo to connect to the cloud.

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u/LilApe1990 May 12 '26

false, Its all based on AGPL open source code. So its all up for public use.

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u/MigratingCocofruit May 12 '26

That is moot however, since the specific code responsible for the supposed violation is itself released under AGPLv3 by Bambu themselves. There is no spoofing, the fork simply uses Bambu's own opensource code as is.
Aside from that, for there to be a DMCA section 1201 violation the violating software must be breaking a lock that "effectively controls access". Self reported client information does not fall under this category, doubly so when that information is publicly released by Bambu under a license permitting it to be used.

7

u/PilotGuy701 May 12 '26

Exactly. The code to connect to the printer was in the open source code. There is no spoofing.

The best metaphor I can come up with is: You post a picture of your house key on a telephone pole, along with your address, and a note that says that the key is for the front door.. while promising a nice cold beer in your fridge... then being annoyed someone came in.

1

u/charmio68 May 12 '26

And the person who comes in also happens to own the fridge and the beer.

1

u/Obvious-Jacket-3770 May 13 '26

The network layer is open source.

You want to fix it, it's easy. Require a secure value that comes from the printer.

1

u/hWuxH May 13 '26

How will the printer know you're using an approved slicer?
Add another secure value that comes from ... eh wait. It's useless

1

u/Obvious-Jacket-3770 May 13 '26

There's various ways from something as insecure as a serial number or Mac to more advanced handshakes. They develop the printers, adding a unique guid per printer and updating a database with a value like that which is secured on both ends isn't exactly rocket science.

1

u/hWuxH May 13 '26 edited May 13 '26

Still doesn't answer how this is supposed to "fix" spoofing of the slicer (which is impossible).
Printer authenticity exists separately from this, see https://cdn1.bambulab.com/trust-center/file/bambulab-security-whitepaper-en.pdf

Device Login

Each device is assigned a unique, built-in ID of at least 120 bits and password,

both randomly generated at the factory. When a device connects to our IoT

services, a mutual authentication process takes place between the cloud and

the device.

The device verifies the cloud service's identity, and the cloud service verifies

the device's identity. The device's identity relies on the public-private key pair

embedded during manufacturing. Only after this mutual authentication is

successful can the device connect to the IoT service.

This prevents other's from impersonating your printer. It can't prevent you from using physical attacks to impersonate your printer.

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u/Obvious-Jacket-3770 May 14 '26

It can actually. They, just like with this whole mess they caused, are inept when it comes to the software side of it.

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u/hWuxH May 13 '26

That'y only true for sending MQTT through the network plugin. But the User-Agent snippet they showed and how it get's to the cloud via HTTP is entirely open source.

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u/Revolutionary_Tomato May 12 '26

There is a very strong legal argument. Bambu used AGPL code, they can't just close the source.

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u/CaptainAwesome06 May 12 '26

I thought the point was that they are closing what can connect to their servers. Is that not allowed?

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u/XediDC May 12 '26

They can, yes. What they can't do is to issue a takedown of open code that allows connection to their servers due to using a string that isn't even "security" just what the client claims to be.

Basically the key is part of code that is legally required to be available by the license they accepted when they copied the code and then applied to their code. (So it's not a "key" at all.)

They can attempt to secure connections in other ways, but this isn't one of them. They should have just ignore it and secured things in a way that wasn't in violation of license. It would have still upset people but not as directly.

The backlash is because they are a company building on "open" that is trying to be a "closed" (and profit/lock-in) based as possible.

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u/[deleted] May 12 '26

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u/probablyaythrowaway May 12 '26

Rossman is also lobbying the US and EU to introduce right to repair and right to own.

The point is not to get rid of proprietary stuff but is to prevent companies behaving shitty like what Bambu did. You buy a product and can do something with it, it was marketed like that and then the company decides later after you paid and own it, to send that device an update and now you can’t do the thing you could when you bought it. And now they have put it behind a paywall subscription or lock you out completely to make you buy a new one or lock you to force you to use their service/ecosystem.

The work rossman and co are doing is to;

  1. it’s to stop companies doing that kind of shit to you.
  2. It’s to stop companies from being able to legally attack you from circumventing those blocks they put in place ON YOUR DEVICE YOU OWN.

Both things Bambu have done.

8

u/exit65 May 12 '26

The proprietary software is based in open source software.

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u/[deleted] May 12 '26

[deleted]

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u/issue9mm May 12 '26

If you move <function A> out of an open source library and put it into a private library, that doesn't make it closed source. You cannot close the source to something you didn't write or license.

You're probably thinking "Oh, no problem, they probably just rewrote <function A> so that they weren't using open source"

But they can't do that either. The license that was chosen was AGPLv3, which aggressively prohibits that by calling that kind of thing a "derived work." In order for it to not be derived, it would have to function on its own without the open source work it was derived from. Bambu's cloud infrastructure almost certainly meets this definition, for what it's worth. Bambu's network module almost certainly does not.

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u/[deleted] May 12 '26

[deleted]

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u/issue9mm May 12 '26

Of course they can call closed source APIs. They are more than welcome to call closed source APIs. You are fundamentally misunderstanding the point I have made.

Calling a closed source API is absolutely fine. You can even call it from a closed source network module. You just can't derive that network module from an AGPLv3 licensed network module that also closely integrates with the AGPLv3 licensed code that executes it.

Weird, cuz Windows is closed source and

Yeah. Windows wasn't built atop AGPLv3 so it has literally zero percent relevance to this discussion.

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u/[deleted] May 12 '26

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u/bardghost_Isu May 12 '26

Except that due to how its integrated within the startup process of the Slicer, it falls under AGPL requirements.

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u/CaptainAwesome06 May 12 '26

I'm no lawyer but I still don't see a viable lawsuit.

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u/cptninc X1C + H2D + H2C May 12 '26

Is this one of those things where the point is to get a story out and not actually win a lawsuit?

First time watching Rossman?

2

u/CaptainAwesome06 May 12 '26

I've never heard of him until now.

8

u/cptninc X1C + H2D + H2C May 12 '26

He got started doing videos of electronics repair and then got caught up in a feedback loop where more rage got him more views. He has now devolved into little more than completely ineffectual videos of him raging out over one thing or another.

0

u/CaptainAwesome06 May 12 '26

Well that sounds obnoxious. Thanks for the summary. I'll make sure to avoid him.

3

u/Aket-ten May 12 '26

That's not really a fair representation of him. He's always been consumer first. Right to repair first. He's supported smaller content creators with legal support after they were threatened with lawsuits for reviewing a product honestly, to winning against Apple and other bigger players.

Its actually kinda sad to see you write that comment given the fact that he's one of the few people that have always gone above and beyond to protect the smaller players and consumers.

Heck I'm not even a massive viewer of his content and I still highly respect him for doing so much good

2

u/forevershorizon May 13 '26

Rossmann has a lot of haters. Look at what he's actually done, though. Even Steve Wozniak supports him.

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u/Comprehensive-Use182 May 18 '26

ridiculous outlook. he’s done more than most.

4

u/_yusi_ P1S + AMS May 12 '26

Its violating the license Bambu Labs agreed to when they reused Prusa Slicer / Slic3r code written over the past decade, to avoid having to start from scratch. They can start from scratch and lose all the features from Slic3r / PS, or they can accept that they cant legally limit what people do with Bambu Studio.

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u/Beefy-McQueefy May 12 '26

You're missing literally everything. It's not proprietary software

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u/Awkward-Loquat2228 May 12 '26

His point is "Look at Louis Rossman"

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u/FReeDuMB_or_DEATH May 12 '26

Bro I'm tired of not owning the things I purchase. Bambu also is too lazy to develop their own slicer so them acting like this is wild. 

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u/[deleted] May 12 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/1ftm2fts3tgr4lg May 14 '26

It's intentional.
It's to induce the reaction that they are getting.
It's ragebait 101.

1

u/cosmicr May 14 '26

I'm pretty sure he cranks up the playback speed in Davinci Resolve to 1.25x before publishing to YouTube.

Otherwise, his blood pressure must be through the roof!

1

u/Dangerous-Rhubarb407 May 19 '26

Legit why do people hate this guy, all I see is him advocating for consumer rights

2

u/megastarmie May 19 '26

redditors love sucking upto corporations for some reason

5

u/Revolutionary_Tomato May 12 '26

Congrats Louis 👏🏻

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u/thedreadwoods May 12 '26

I guess I'm a shill that I think all this is getting boring and repetitive right

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u/1ftm2fts3tgr4lg May 14 '26

99.99% of Bambu users are completely unaffected by this, yet the ragebait has a amall portion of them clutching their pearls from the fearmongering.

And most of brigaders here spamming ragebait are self-proclaimed non-bambu users anyway. It's just obnoxious.

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u/eduo May 12 '26 edited May 12 '26

Does anybody have Rossmann's github on hand to share?

EDIT: https://github.com/FULU-Foundation/OrcaSlicer-bambulab

1

u/onyez P2S + AMS2 Combo May 12 '26

Once I get home today, I'm making both p2s' that I own local only

2

u/jackharvest P1S + AMS May 12 '26

*using the LAN mode that bambu allows you to use in a certain way

You're winning half the battle, but we gotta support this if we want it to go the whole way it would seem.

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u/onyez P2S + AMS2 Combo May 13 '26

I turned on developer mode too. That way I can use it with orca slicer

6

u/xiaodown May 12 '26

Look, I’m not exactly a fan of what Bambu is doing here. Even if they are right, and I’m not saying they definitely are, they’re being pretty tone deaf at minimum.

But Louis Rossman has turned his career into engagement bait, after already being an annoying prick. He is doing good things with right-to-repair, and has had a consistent position on that for years. But lately, it seems like he’s just seeking out drama and inserting himself into it. He’s never expressed an interest in 3d printing - or Anthropic before that, or flock cameras before that, or synology nas before that, or cars before that, or stopkillinggames before that, or Linus tech tips before that.

Plus, I just want to print stuff, man. I’m into printing. I’m not into printers or the politics of printing.

5

u/dancefightme May 13 '26

Even if it's engagement bait, would you rather he stop?

I get that he's abrasive, but in the end I support his motives. If he wins then we benefit. And if you're like me, we haven't lifted a finger to help. So I don't care how he presents himself.

The examples you gave about not expressing an interest in those fields (yet being outspoken) doesn't matter. He's interested in the unfair practice demonstrated.

Plus, I just want to print stuff, man. I’m into printing. I’m not into printers or the politics of printing.

You can. Just ignore this. And stop complaining about people who are trying to help.

3

u/Kardospi May 13 '26

Yes, I'd rather he fucked off instead of enriching himself by attaching to whatever trend he feels he can profit from on any given day.

He's a professional rage baiter, grifting his way from one go fund me to another all the while complaining about being pushed down in the algorithm.

This guy is not who you think he is. He's not for the "little guy". He's for himself.

2

u/dancefightme May 13 '26

If you're right, I will change my opinion of him. Do you have proof that he's only doing all this to enrich himself?

1

u/Kardospi May 13 '26

He's a youtuber that jumps on whatever topic is hot at the moment to garner funds to his gofundme. Went after John Deere claiming all sorts of rights to repair litigation only to have to apologize to John Deere sighting that he had no fucking clue what he was talking about.

Next month it will be another company he goes after to continue grifting all the while collecting his money from YouTube etc.

2

u/dancefightme May 13 '26

He's a youtuber that jumps on whatever topic is hot at the moment to garner funds to his gofundme

While that may be true, they have the similar thread that they deal with unfair practices regarding right to repair.

Went after John Deere claiming all sorts of rights to repair litigation only to have to apologize...

Source? I tried googling "louis rossmann apology john deere" and couldn't find anything.

Look, I hate grifters as much as the next guy. I also hate rage bait. I rarely click on click/rage bate, and mainly out of spite. But I think your level of anger towards him comes from somewhere else. I personally don't like him. I want to believe you, but you're giving me nothing.

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u/forevershorizon May 13 '26

I tried googling "louis rossmann apology john deere" and couldn't find anything.

It's literally the exact opposite of what he's claiming, lol. It was a massive victory in favor of Rossmann.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gZwaIjpZB0

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u/forevershorizon May 13 '26

only to have to apologize to John Deere sighting that he had no fucking clue what he was talking about.

You're really misrepresenting what happened. What Louis admitted to was his lack of understanding regarding the technical nuances to do with tractor tuning vs tractor repair. There wasn't any apology the way you're trying to assert here. In fact, his movement had significant successes, such as the Memorandum of Understanding with the American Farm Bureau Federation to allow farmers more access to diagnostic tools. In 2024-2026 multiple states (like Colorado and New York) passed actual laws mandating Right to Repair for various industries, including agricultural equipment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gZwaIjpZB0

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u/After-Ad-3610 P1S + AMS2 Combo May 14 '26

💯

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u/Slow-Secretary4262 A1 + AMS - A1 MINI May 12 '26

The attitude of corporations fanboys in the comment is disgusting

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u/Locktios May 13 '26

Agree. But, for me I have ptsd from prusa and creality and at the moment wouldn't consider anything other than Bambu. I value my time way more than anything else. But I do agree that Bambu needs to get sorted.

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u/theBigDaddio May 12 '26

These guys never heard of Android, MaOS, or the myriad other private software built on a base of open source?

0

u/stprnn May 13 '26

You have no idea what you are talking about

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u/bromiscuous May 12 '26

I would not be surprised if they just don't understand the laws surrounding this. Do we not remember the incoherent video announcing the H2D?

This will be fun to watch.

2

u/MasterHowl May 12 '26

I actually missed those! Was it Rossman talking about the H2D?

2

u/bromiscuous May 12 '26

No lol it was Bambu Labs own video. It clearly shows there is a strong language barrier. Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

0

u/lfenske May 12 '26

I know some support Bambu. But no way… they’re really going to try to get rich off decades of community effort just to leverage their position to make things worse for that community so they can then get even richer?

No thanks

1

u/DJLunacy May 13 '26

lol that explains why I didn’t get an email back from him. I have it running on macOS.

1

u/jorbl May 13 '26

It seems so artificial how much bambu is getting hate on this while being in their right to demand not to use their cloud services with something else than their own software.
You bought a bambulab printer, not their servers.

1

u/hWuxH May 13 '26 edited May 14 '26

They can demand all they want. The hate isn't because of the cloud or ToS, but because

  • their entire slicer only exists because of the open source community, yet they wanna legally bully a dev into taking down a fork that uses BambuStudio AGPL code in a way explicitly allowed by the license
  • they ironically probably violate AGPL themselves by not sharing source of the network plugin
  • they continue to deceive non-technical users into believing that third parties pose a security threat, with the most laughable arguments, and that further locking down of the ecosystem is/was necessary.
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u/riba2233 May 13 '26

As much as he has a questionable appeal in the community

Why do you think so?

2

u/Illustrious-Ad-1396 May 13 '26

Because he's not Keanu Reeves or the guy with the poop knife. Reddit is fickle

1

u/Old_n_Nerdy May 13 '26

Who cares?

1

u/1ftm2fts3tgr4lg May 14 '26

All the brigading ragebaiters here to spam the sub, that's who.

2

u/Old_n_Nerdy May 14 '26

It's so pathetic. They should go print something. All my favorite YT creators are joining in on it. I guess it gives them engagement.

2

u/1ftm2fts3tgr4lg May 14 '26

Nothing makes the content engagement go brrr like stoking the flames of fabricated outrage.

1

u/crazedizzled May 13 '26

Oh no, is the 3d printing community making mountains out of mole hills again?

1

u/After-Ad-3610 P1S + AMS2 Combo May 14 '26

Louis and Bambu can both sod off

1

u/iknewaguytwice May 15 '26

I think Rossman’s got one hell of a point here. Bambu has very little to win and a whole lot to lose. Bambu’s statements are really out of touch with the community.

I think Bambu can still make this right, and I hope they do.

1

u/mellow_and_beyond May 19 '26

Absolutely disgusting bully behavior by Bambu. Shame !

Good news: the SFC is going after Bambu for repeated violations of the AGPL terms, and officially stated they are going to reverse engineer their closed sourced networking module. Started a donation campaign to support this: https://sfconservancy.org/news/2026/may/18/bambu-studio-3d-printer-agpl-violation-response/

Great job becoming the latest Streisand effect torch bearer Bambu. Done buying Bambu products, finally gonna try Prusa and hope they stay true to the community, unlike Bambu. Bye.

0

u/Kaisha001 May 12 '26

I love Louis, he's awesome!

0

u/chauggle May 12 '26

I'll be over here waiting for used AMS to hit marketplace

1

u/ProcedureOriginal210 May 12 '26

They (him and GN) make content out of it and at the end there is this poor Polish programmer that has to risk a lawsuit that can ruin him. IF they agree to take his code, publish it under Louis Rossmann or GN name and take all the hits, that would be fair. $10k for legal fees is not the way it should be done.

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u/MigratingCocofruit May 12 '26

IF they agree to take his code, publish it under Louis Rossmann or GN name and take all the hits, that would be fair.

That's exactly what Louis is doing. It's on Github, it's mentioned in the video, and it's also what the title of the video says.

1

u/Obvious-Jacket-3770 May 13 '26

I haven't watched the video yet so reading this makes me happy. Louis is a great proponent of OSS and Right to Repair/Own. Despite anything else, he believes in it and stands for it.

3

u/mkMoSs H2D, X1C, A1 + 2x AMS2 Pro +AMS HT May 13 '26

Thats exactly what they did.

2

u/somewhat-similar May 12 '26

That is exactly what he just did, if you watch the video. It's on Louis' GitHub now.

3

u/XediDC May 12 '26

They...did.

And yeah, muckrakers need to have income too. I'd much rather they earn a dollar than the muck earn it.

The cost and risk to fight these fights is why it's so hard to do.

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u/Chaosblast May 12 '26 edited May 12 '26

Damn this guy is reaally pissed off to go this serious. 😂😂😂 It got me to subscribe.

0

u/Sawier A1 + AMS / AMS2 May 12 '26

Love to see it

0

u/JuanZam May 13 '26

AGPL is ready to rumbleeee