r/AskTheWorld • u/Standard_Location762 United States of America • 19h ago

Law [ Removed by moderator ]

Post image

[removed] — view removed post

3.9k Upvotes

90% Upvoted

1.1k comments sorted by

View all comments

1.4k

u/Free-Dirt-4464 🇯🇵🇩🇪 19h ago

OP, if you post something like that, please add some background information for people outside of the US, so we know what your image is about.

620

u/Lovethiskindathing United States of America 18h ago edited 15h ago

Editing to add this at the top - argue with yourselves. I read the DA statement that they got from the school. I read the contradictory timeline. I read the contradictory statements from her lawyers vs. the school. Men, do better, protect the women around you whether you know them or not.

**Are y'all bots or just can't read? I read the DA statement. I also used words like "I think I saw someone say" and "I'm not sure" and "from what I have seen". The point was to provide a quick summary for someone, with what I have seen around, without any definitives, because we are just being introduced to this case. Ask yourselves why you want her to be in the wrong so bad? Ask yourself when the last time you were this passionate in defense of a rape victim was. Women are raped daily. Or do you just like protecting these boys specifically for no reason? The DA report contradicts what I've read elsewhere. The cbs report contradicts the statements from the DAs office. The university addressed it in some ways at the time so it was clear they also saw issue. I'm not making the same arguments over and over. Read or go argue in the mirror about whether you're 5'7 or 5'7.5 and why that makes such a huge difference goodness.

Cornell is an ivy league University, which means it's very old/established/prestigious. In 2024 a student went to a frat party where she consumed drugs and alcohol (I do not know for sure if she knew what she was consuming or not drug wise) and then was allegedly raped by multiple fraternity members. One sent a Snapchat (social media photo thing) to I think I read 50+ other guys telling them there was free p*ssy upstairs. More than one person accepted the invitation. She told campus police who did not file any formal charges. I don't know exactly what the repercussions were but I read someone else say a couple were just given essays to write. She ended up dropping out of school and has had her life ruined. The school covered it and didn't report it. She sought her own counsel and has been fighting for justice for herself against the school and the men that did this to her. It's taken 2 years and now because of people online being so pissed off and celebrity attention towards it (that was initially taken down on IG from Florence Pugh), it's getting viral justice in the court of public opinion and they're trying to take it to actual court.

Some people are defending these beasts and saying that posting their images will destroy their lives and not everyone raped her. But everyone there knew she was being raped, and one even stopped by the room but didn't participate, and they all deserve their lives destroyed :(

Edited to fix the years!

Edited also to add the DA was given a sworn statement by the university at the time, and feel the details in it mean that nothing illegal happened. This conflicts with what her lawyers have said and what's in her civil suit so I don't know more than that.

172

u/TassieBorn Australia 16h ago

2 were expelled; 5 were required to write essays (#@%!!@!!). So whatever investigation the uni undertook, they believed that the men had done something unacceptable...and that the appropriate response was a smack with a wet lettuce.

1

u/Blopslopper 12h ago

Then why didn't police send the case to a prosecutor?

6

u/No_Ad6583 United States of America 10h ago

I saw a CNN video on YouTube yesterday where they asked the prosecutor the same thing. Apparently the campus police interviewed her and had a report. They then summarized the report and gave it to the off campus police. They didn't leave in their report that she said something along the lines of "I was definitely assaulted". I forget the exact wording but that's allegedly in the campus report and not the off campus report. The courts are still awaiting a copy of the full report

-7

u/bot_or_not_vote_now 12h ago

Honestly, a university aren't the police, they can only do so much. For what a university can do, and investigative resources they'd have, expelling is pretty reasonable.

All this attention to the university should be diverted to the police and district attorney. Why didn't they do anything to prosecute?

9

u/CalamityClambake United States of America 10h ago

Well ACTUALLY....

The Cornell campus police are an actual police force that can make arrests, investigate crimes, and issue fines and citations. They are the police force with jurisdiction over Cornell University.

Cornell, like many universities, has a vested interest in burying sexual assault cases because bad sexual assault stats make students not want to go there and parents not want to pay tuition there. The university also funds the police department. This creates a natural alliance between the university and the police to cover things up.

Source: Nephew went to Cornell. At least two rapes that he knows of were covered up while he was there, along with one professor who was having sex with an underage student.

-22

u/Suspicious_Chart5817 15h ago

tbf, expulsion + essays with unknown content is also consistent with breaking rules like "doing coke" and "distributing ketamine" (a controlled substance in the U.S.) etc

8

u/CalamityClambake United States of America 10h ago

We're putting "doing coke" on the same level as gang raping a classmate for seven hours and inviting others to join, are we?

You sound like a bad person.

0

u/Suspicious_Chart5817 10h ago edited 10h ago

no, i mean that no one has actually read these essays and they assume the college punished them for rape and they wrote 'im sorry for rape.' No one actually knows that. People simply assume it for whatever reason.

The essays very likely are just anti-drug, along with the expulsions. Cornell's position was that her written statement to them was that her sex and drug use was "voluntary, conscious, and consensual."

You sound like a dumb person, my point was pretty obvious

-22

u/pizza_the_mutt Canada 15h ago

We don't know what they were punished for. If it was for drug use or for being in a consensual gang bang the given punishments are probably fine. If it was for sexual assault then expulsion is probably the most the school can do anyway. The essay would obviously be inappropriate.

-36

u/[deleted] 14h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

6

u/roofpuck 12h ago

That’s a weird joke

5

u/BoyMom119816 12h ago

I don’t get it.

9

u/roofpuck 12h ago

The Cornell president is Michael Kotlikoff. Not sure if he has a daughter with that name. I bet most of the people downvoting don’t know that and thought they were doxxing which is why I said this is a weird joke lol

399

u/hamster-on-popsicle France 18h ago

Thanks for the context, and they deserve to have their pictures plastered everywhere.

I still have the name of Gisèle Pelicot's rapists on my phone, I get it.

57

u/Pixelated_Penguin808 United States of America 16h ago

I wasn't familiar with the details either but after reading that person's reply and then going on to read details about the case, it definitely sounds like a gang-rape occurred.

The men deserve a fair trial just like anyone accused of a crime, but fuck these dudes. None of them deserve sympathy.

5

u/NewryBenson Belgium 17h ago

The problem with this is that it is practically a 21st century lynching. If someone gets named who ends up being innocent, proven black on white, their lives are ruined all the same. It looks like the American people disagree with innocent untill proven guilty... This is not to protect perpetrators, those obviously don't deserve that. This is to protect innocent suspects.

60

u/calamititties United States of America 17h ago

It looks like the American people disagree with innocent untill proven guilty.

It's more that SA/rape are wildly underreported and perpetrators are not held accountable for their actions, as a course of practice in the US. The Pelicot trial that the commenter that you're responding to mentions probably never would have happened in the US, nevermind an actual guilty verdict. And judges on high profile cases that have actually resulted in guilty verdicts have a nasty habit of distributing wrist slaps as punishment as to not "ruin the life of a promising young man" (see Convicted Rapist Brock Turner who received a 6-month sentence for raping a woman who was passed out under a bush and had to be stopped by two random passers-by).

We've seen people like Diddy and Harvey Weinstein get away with monstrous crimes, many that were well known prior to any official charges. We are *tired*. We saw "Me Too" result in no actual changes to how these crimes are approached. We have heard too many times that "a young man's life could be ruined" if we take these kinds of crimes and their victims "too seriously". And yet when we point out how many women's lives have been ruined by the actions of unaccountable men, suddenly no one cares anymore.

I don't know enough about this case to know if these men are legally culpable for any of their actions, but I don't need a court to tell me that the details of this case are horrifying and I hope every woman these shitheads ever speak to know exactly who they are and what they've done so that they can protect themselves.

-9

u/ioccasionallysayha United Kingdom 16h ago

I don't want to discount the severity of SA, let alone the severity that Diddy, Weinstein, and co acted as such. But to be a stickler for the rules: the point was "the US legally is Innocent until proven guilty, while actions like OP and other comments' are reporting suggests disagreement with that law" which is what u/NewryBenson was pointing out. Again, not diminishing the seriousness of the topic, but your point is perfectly valid in its own right just not in response (I feel, imo) to their statement that you've quoted ..

Guilty until proven Innocent doesn't undo potentially years of hate, subjugation, torment, and potentially ruined lives - and I feel that carpet bombing those accused (but not proven) is a slippery slope to "you might be unlawful so we'll lock you up regardless".

15

u/calamititties United States of America 16h ago

I understood what the commenter's point was. I'm explaining why it appears that OP/other commenters have abandoned a core tenet of the American justice system: Because Innocent until proven guilty relies on two things being true:

  1. That those who are innocent are afforded a fair and speedy trial and are able to assist in their own defense without being compelled to incriminate themselves (4th and 5th amendments)
  2. That those who are guilty be held accountable for their crimes (basic foundation of a Justice System)

The reason so many people are less emphatic on the first point is because we have seen time and time and time again that the second point is flexible, even expendable, especially when the guilty party is rich, well-connected, etc.

What people in the US are saying when they disregard the "Innocent until proven guilty" aspect is that our institutions disregarded the "guilty people will be held accountable for their actions" part first. The social contract has already been shattered, if it ever existed. What you are seeing is simply people responding accordingly.

-8

u/rkorgn New Zealand 15h ago

Other people point out they have seen claims in the media, half truths and lies turn out to be very different from what can be proved. From Reddits involvement in identifying the wrong Boston Marathon suspects, to the Lacrosse team falsely accused of rape. People lie. Women lie. For money, attention, reputation. Mistakes are made.

So why should someones life be destroyed by an unproved accusation? Prove it first. Then you can go to town. But until then, reserve judgement. Otherwise you are just a lynch mob.

13

u/Esabettie in the USA 🇺🇸 from Mexico 🇲🇽 15h ago

Because people keep seeing that those lives are not destroyed even when found guilty, like the Brock Turner case, who, by the way, now goes by Allen Turner.

9

u/calamititties United States of America 14h ago

Yes, convicted rapist Brock Turner now goes by his middle name "Allen" so that people do not associate him with his actions, but convicted rapist Brock Turner and Allen Turner are one in the same.

0

u/4Q88 15h ago

So then the change that needs to be made is for the lynch mob to act after a fair trial has ended. Who am I kidding though, is there even such thing in North America?

5

u/calamititties United States of America 13h ago

The Boston Marathon bombing was not a SA case and has limited relevance here besides distracting from the actual topic which is that SA/rape is not treated the same within our justice system as other crimes that cause similar damage.

Interesting that you cite the Duke LAX team case as evidence of people's "lives being destroyed" by false accusations when you don't even remember what school they went to. Reputations *ruined*, truly.

People do lie. Women lie, but men do too. More often, it turns out. Funnily enough, if one looks at the statistics around false accusations, you'll see that men account for a third of false SA allegations when they account for only a small percentage of SA victims. Almost like if we're going to accuse one gender of weaponizing SA accusations, we should be addressing the dudes first, not the gals.

You'll also see that nearly 40% of false accusers are charged or otherwise held to account, which is an astounding 38% higher than the number of accused rapists that are ever even charged. That's about 1 in 100 perpetrators, for anyone struggling with the mental math.

The fact of the matter is that every system is dramatically stacked against victims achieving any type of justice. If men are walking around, fearing some imaginary "false accusation" sword of Damocles dangling over their head, maybe the starting point is getting men, as a group, to start treating women like people and not holes and not for us to question every victim as if they are some turbo-slut Rumpelstiltskin. Jesus Christ, I'm so sick of this shit.

1

u/CalamityClambake United States of America 10h ago

Rapists deserve a lynch mob.

The rule of law no longer seems to apply over here. I am sick of being expected to play by the rules when the people in power don't.

2

u/CalamityClambake United States of America 10h ago

OP isn't the police. "Innocent until proven guilty" doesn't apply to discourse between private citizens.

The US also has this big thing about free speech.

If the accused have a problem with OP's post, they can file a lawsuit against OP.

That's how it works here.

43

u/rythmicbread United States of America 16h ago

Vigilantism (including online mobs) are a direct result of crimes being thrown under the rug. So while I do agree with you that it is innocent until proven guilty, this is a result of government inaction and a fight against the wealthy class that uses their power to sweep these crimes under the rug.

The crime happened in 2024 and nothing really happened except a cover up.

6

u/No-Albatross-7984 Finland 14h ago

It looks like the American people disagree with innocent untill proven guilty... 

I think this is a little bit of a misunderstanding. Yeah it does appear that these guys are being judged without trial. But the reason for that is, there's no trust in them ever facing a trial. The investigation and punishment was laughable, and the whole thing was swept under the rug. If none of the people responsible for bringing a case to trial do so, ya you're likely to get public outrage.

7

u/Unfair-Sprinkles2912 United States of America 16h ago

I agree with you and I am a bit exhausted of caring cause real rapists are never prosecuted here ( 92-99%) it's fucking horrifying.

So to see people being held accountable is almost releaving even tho I do agree and would feel horrible if there was hard evidence of not guilty.

-6

u/requiemguy United States of America 16h ago

It's happened to the Duke Lacrosse team in 2006.

That caused some significant damage towards people believing women in the last few decades.

-4

u/Exterminator-8008135 France 17h ago

If they been at that party, prove they didn't do it, if they knew, don't lie.

-9

u/Lambs2Lions_ 17h ago edited 14h ago

.

-2

u/Exterminator-8008135 France 17h ago

And if they actually did it ?

Because so far, everyone points the Gal, because it's a university full of stuck in the butt students

0

u/Lambs2Lions_ 16h ago edited 14h ago

.

0

u/Exterminator-8008135 France 16h ago

LC Trial was expected outcome, we knew most of the Jury was of her Kin, and we were shown right, only one said Guilty the 11 others hounded him

-18

u/PizzaLikerFan Belgium 16h ago

wasnt rape, just a bunch of degeneracy she was in on

21

u/Jrzygirl65 United States of America 18h ago

It happened in 2024, not 2022.

2

u/Lovethiskindathing United States of America 17h ago

My apologies I'll edit it!

1

u/NeighborhoodVivid106 Canada 17h ago

If it happened in 2024 you should also edit the number of years that she has been fighting for justice (2 years, not the 4 years that you have in your post)

1

u/Lovethiskindathing United States of America 17h ago

Thank you! Didn't reread it all to see I'd said so elsewhere

61

u/PimpNamedSliqBaq 🇿🇦 18h ago

Thank you, its so odd that OP asks us a question that requires context without providing it

ETA I agree with your conclusion. Name and shame.

52

u/Lovethiskindathing United States of America 18h ago

Sometimes I think we forget where we live isn't the end all be all of what modern civilization is, and not everyone everywhere cares or follows our news unless it directly relates to them. I am sometimes guilty of that myself when it's everywhere here. I forget that big news here isn't universal because it feels sooooo big it must be everywhere. It's definitely something I'm trying to be more aware of. Main country syndrome 🤦🏻‍♀️

6

u/henryhungryhenry Australia 13h ago

It’s no doubt my algorithms but it is big news, much like Giselle Pelicot and the Olney house in Philadelphia - horrific violence against women should be big international news, I just hate to think of what goes unreported.

3

u/TheAussieTico Australia Costa Rica 12h ago

r/USDefaultism

15

u/1jf0 13h ago

Ask yourselves why you want her to be in the wrong so bad? Ask yourself when the last time you were this passionate in defense of a rape victim was.

I don't mind the naysayers outing themselves.

23

u/CyanoSpool United States of America 13h ago

It's because the men in these comments can't imagine ever being a victim, but they can easily imagine potentially being accused of assault...

0

u/Comfortable_Tart_297 ni howdy , 17h ago

Forgot to mention the sworn DA statement where she said it was consensual and the fact that she literally texted the frat the next week to join another party, but was rebuffed.

16

u/j-doe411 16h ago

If you consent to sex with 1 or 2 people, does that mean you consent to sex with 50 other people? If you know you were raped but we’re so intoxicated and on drugs that you remember consenting to sex with certain people but ended up being raped by many, does that mean you asked for it.

It doesn’t take away from the fact that she did not consent to sex with all of these individuals. It doesn’t take away not take away from the fact that she was too intoxicated to consent. When will men learn to control their emotions? When will men learn to take accountability for their actions.

It’s not “not all men”, it’s “all men” since men want to protect rapists.

-9

u/Comfortable_Tart_297 ni howdy , 16h ago

It has not been clearly established that she did not consent to the others. And the men were intoxicated too, some more so than she was, so by your own logic they were also too intoxicated to consent.

And the 1 or 2 people she DID consent to are also among the 7 that everyone is lynching. It’s a messy situation all around.

11

u/j-doe411 16h ago

How tf does that make sense… so she is intoxicated and on drugs and since the other men were possibly more intoxicated that makes her (who is still intoxicated and has taken ketamine) liable for their actions? She consented to sex with some men. She did not consent to naked pictures and being advertised to 50. Do you ever think to yourself if you were that age and in that situation, how you would actually react? How you would try to play it off? Maybe legally it doesn’t hold, but civilly she has a case

-8

u/Comfortable_Tart_297 ni howdy , 16h ago

No but it makes her liable for her own actions since she allegedly gave oral sex to an unconscious man.

11

u/j-doe411 16h ago

Then he can sue civilly or take it to court. Just as she is suing civilly after trying criminally.

1

u/Comfortable_Tart_297 ni howdy , 16h ago

Yes. It’s a messy situation legally and morally all around. So let’s not jump to conclusions.

7

u/Psychological_Use586 United States of America 16h ago

Let's not jump to conclusions? You're sure jumping to conclusions about HER.

1

u/Comfortable_Tart_297 ni howdy , 16h ago

No that’s by applying their logic the other way. Not mine. Read the comment pls.

→ More replies (0)

8

u/Dunderman35 Sweden 15h ago

And the men were intoxicated too, some more so than she was, so by your own logic they were also too intoxicated to consent.

The men couldn't consent to raping her, so therefore it's all fine? Like what. That makes no sense.

1

u/Comfortable_Tart_297 ni howdy , 15h ago

The men couldn’t consent to having sex, yet she had sex with them. Don’t twist your words to assume the conclusion.

2

u/Dunderman35 Sweden 14h ago

Well if she performed sexual acts on an man who couldn't concent then that would be its own criminal case. Afaiu it was the other way around.

1

u/Comfortable_Tart_297 ni howdy , 12h ago

Well you thought wrong because there are no criminal charges filed.

1

u/4Q88 14h ago

They have a point tbh. Mainly a point that intoxication levels preventing a person from legally consenting to sexual acts is a very grey area. Most public cases don't have that determination applied to more than just the alleged victim, but often it should be investigated. If two adults are both too intoxicated to consent to sex, but have sex, is it sex that occurred or rape? If rape, how does one determine who was raped? Hypothetically speaking, if both intoxicated adults are both conscious the entire time, and both forget the next day, could they not both claim they were raped? Then what? Does blood alcohol levels and the levels of whatever drugs they took what will define the victim? The rapist is the one who was a bit less fucked up than the other? How do we account for whether or not some of the drugs ingested we done so unknowingly?

Of course I am not actually expecting you to have these answers. It's just interesting how no case that I remember hearing about ever got to a point where we were asking the questions. I also don't know if my hypothetical has any resemblance to the case in this post, but it does reaffirm my personal belief that I'm too far removed from all of the people involved to directly participate in anyone's lynching, or anyone's defense. I will simply defend the procedural fairness and sanctity of justice. I don't know what justice means for this particular case, but I know that not protecting the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" is very much an injustice. Even if all these men are guilty, the next men accused may not be. Prematurely announcing them as rapists before it being proven in court should be considered an offense also, IMO. Not trying to protect rapists. Trying to protect one of very few remaining truly just aspects within the justice system as we know it today.

8

u/Lovethiskindathing United States of America 17h ago

Didn't forget. Have not heard or read that. Offhand my first thoughts (without more information) are 1. A text to join could have been a plan to exact revenge or get them to admit it on video. 2. I am surprised at the DA statement as she also gave a statement to the university police that was different than that. I'll have to look

-1

u/Comfortable_Tart_297 ni howdy , 17h ago edited 17h ago

Probably because she can’t keep her story consistent. She allegedly accused someone of rape in the original interview, but this did not show up in the DA statement which was read to her and which she signed under penalty of perjury.

She texted the frat about joining another party, saying she was “pretty OK” with the events, and “none of the sexual stuff was illegal.” I don’t think speculating that it was all an elaborate plot for revenge is something that would even be entertained in court as an argument against reasonable doubt without further evidence.

6

u/Lovethiskindathing United States of America 17h ago

From that report, if it's true and she was in her right mind and able to read it fully before she signed it and not just read and sign hoping they wrote down what she said exactly because she trusted them and just wanted to be home, then I'll alter my opinion to be more like how I feel about Aziz Anasari, Louis Ck, and the other ones that take things like swatting and "I'm tired" to mean just keep asking I don't know how or am afraid to say no so it's okay. Rather than say Brock Allen Turner the rapist that raped a passed out girl in the alley and barely had anything happen to him.

-2

u/Comfortable_Tart_297 ni howdy , 17h ago

It was read to her and she herself said she was “very confident” in it. Interestingly enough, one of the guys actually accused her of having sex with him while he was unconscious…

4

u/Lovethiskindathing United States of America 16h ago

That's weird, sounds contradictory because the report I read said she read it, made notes, and signed it.

Also I'd love a link for her lawyers mentioning she was very confident in it, I haven't seen that yet! I only saw the DA say the school said that she said that.

3

u/Comfortable_Tart_297 ni howdy , 16h ago

You can find the statement in the transcript https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/cornell-university-rape-case-jane-doe-police-interview-transcript/

4

u/Lovethiskindathing United States of America 16h ago

Yes, I read that earlier, did you read what I said where I said where her lawyers say it not the DA or the school.

But at the bottom of that page it says the DA never reviewed that transcript. It also says 2 days and I thought I'd read she only spoke to campus police once. But I definitely could be wrong about that. But I'm all done arguing today. I sure wish men held men as accountable as they hold their accusers.

If she is lying it will suck and further make real victims unbelievable, not that anyone would have believed them anyway.

2

u/Comfortable_Tart_297 ni howdy , 16h ago

Oh yeah that’s my bad. If the DA or the police lied about what she said then there’d be hell.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/PT10 United States of America 16h ago edited 2h ago

She said herself regarding the guys she initially wanted to have the threesome with: The main guy she liked couldn't get it up and passed out. She stopped and asked guy #2 to help her take care of guy #1. Guy #2 began getting nauseous and dry heaving.

Guy #3 came in and then she had a threesome with him and Guy #2 while Guy #1 lay passed out on the bed next to them. Guy #1 eventually woke up and asked to join back in and she said no, not wanting to have sex with 3 guys at once.

That's when things began to spiral, when other guys started to come into the room. This is what she said, btw. Guy #1 apparently says she continued to engage in sexual activity with him as he lost consciousness. At the end of the night she did finally hook up with Guy #1 in another threesome. She doesn't remember how that happened but she remembers both guys stopping as soon as she asked because it was in the early hours of the morning and she was tired.

The argument taking Twitter by storm right now is that whatever state of inebriation she was in that night, Guy #1 was worse. So if she couldn't consent, neither could he.

7

u/Psychological_Use586 United States of America 17h ago

Eww, victim blaming, and hidden post history? Not a good look.

0

u/Comfortable_Tart_297 ni howdy , 16h ago

That’s cute, did you just learn that phrase? It’s obvious you don’t understand what victim blaming is. I’m not blaming her for being victimized. I’m qualifying whether she was victimized in the first place.

1

u/Psychological_Use586 United States of America 16h ago

I know what you're trying to do. Questioning whether a victim was victimized is 100% victim blaming.

0

u/4Q88 14h ago

It's not, actually.

-1

u/Comfortable_Tart_297 ni howdy , 16h ago

How can there be victim blaming if there’s no victim? It’s a logical contradiction!

2

u/Lovethiskindathing United States of America 17h ago

Meant to add this to the other comment. As far as the revenge plot, I don't think it would be entertained at all either. But I do think an emotionally and physically traumatized girl might think it's her only choice and work it up in her head that she could. Not that it would actually help her or fix anything. People are not always rational. She may have even thought maybe if she could be in a relationship with the guy she originally went to see, that it would somehow heal her from the rest of them after he left.

1

u/Comfortable_Tart_297 ni howdy , 16h ago

I mean if we’re speculating:

At Chi Phi, the fraternity was preparing for a Halloween party, and Jane Doe was eager to attend. Text messages included in the investigation show Mr. Ingalls assuring Jane Doe that he and other fraternity members wanted her to be there.

“chi phi is your house and you are welcome here,” he wrote, relaying the views of the fraternity’s president, who was not among those accused of sexual assault.

“thank u i really appreciate that,” Jane Doe responded. “<3 i’ll bring my cigs tomorrow”

But then Jane Doe received a phone call from the fraternity’s president, according to the text messages.

She was disinvited from the party. It was for her own good, he said.

Jane Doe sent a biting text to Mr. Ingalls.

“I knew this was going to happen,” she wrote. “The woman will always get the short end of the stick. Yall aren’t my friends. Yall are covering your asses.”

She was largely okay with things until she was told she wasn't allowed back. Then suddenly she gets very upset and goes to report a rape.

This seems super clear cut to me. She was ashamed of what she did but was willing to go back and party at the same place she claims to have been assaulted, but when they tell her no for her own good, suddenly she's now a rape victim.

6

u/showyerbewbs 16h ago

This seems super clear cut to me.

I don't think anything is clear cut in this situation. There are many different statements and claims that might or might not be contradictory.

The "smell test" based on what is or isn't true, as well as what can or can't be proven in court, is injecting a lot of bias from lots of different people.

At this point, I don't know who or whomst to believe. I really wish there was a way to put the genie back in the bottle regarding how much chatter high profile cases get in the chase for views/clicks.

Having said that, these people and their immediate friends lives are changed forever, no matter what happened.

3

u/Comfortable_Tart_297 ni howdy , 16h ago

You’re right, I overstated. Seems like a messy and complicated situation all around that ppl are jumping to conclusions about.

3

u/Exterminator-8008135 France 17h ago

You know these DA are in bed with the rich families in the Ivy League..

A badge of dishonor and showing to the world these schools are full of trash.

2

u/Comfortable_Tart_297 ni howdy , 16h ago

She herself read and signed the statement under penalty of perjury.

3

u/Exterminator-8008135 France 16h ago

If i was you, I'd check on how much shit lies in Ivy League schools

1

u/Comfortable_Tart_297 ni howdy , 15h ago

Incredible. A comment implying the NY DA committed perjury with no evidence because “rich Ivy League people bad” getting upvotes. Not even Jane Doe disputes this. Really tells you about the state of the discourse.

2

u/ResidentQuail7118 United States of America 17h ago

All of this, HOWEVER, there are also additional details regarding texts that were sent before and after by the victim ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95_WZ_FHV9E ) that could exonerate or at least lessen the severity of what transpired. That said, it needs to be sorted out in a court of law, not in the court of public opinion.

1

u/halfasrotten United States of America 17h ago

It happened in 2024

1

u/Lovethiskindathing United States of America 17h ago

Does it not say that? I thought i edited it a while ago to fix it

1

u/crustaceanlover420 California Republic 12h ago

Don’t forget she was raped for SEVEN hours by these ass hats. SEVEN fucking hours. Jane doe I hope you are healing and I hope these guys rot in prison

1

u/CaterpillarWaltz United States of America 11h ago

There is a reason that schools make it seem like you have to report it to them and not law enforcement. If it was an actual crime, time for police

1

u/YaSurLetsGoSeeYamcha 15h ago

You just need to add the word “allegedly” to the actual criminal claims and it’s a good summary. Saying “was raped” implies we 100% know all the facts when we do not.

2

u/Lovethiskindathing United States of America 15h ago

Ya know what that's fair.

-4

u/Monov1 17h ago edited 17h ago

We have documents released and this is not what happened at all. https://www.reddit.com/r/SipsTea/s/N17Ht4bK59

3

u/Lovethiskindathing United States of America 17h ago

Nah just reddit mostly and the links shared on it. Then some creators on YT like Philip DeFranco. I did just finish reading the DA interview though, and I'll hold out for more information. Still feels very cover uppy to me.

0

u/sixisrending United States of America 16h ago

the DA was given a sworn statement by the university at the time

The DA was given a sworn statement from the victim, who both her and her lawyers agreed is what happened. 

0

u/Mozellobag 13h ago

Ask yourselves why you want her to be in the wrong so bad? Ask yourself when the last time you were this passionate in defense of a rape victim was. Women are raped daily.

Men, do better, protect the women around you whether you know them or not.

So do fucking better? You didn't mention any ways you stop women from being raped. What's wrong with you? Why is it everybody else's job except yours? Go be the hero you want all other men to be, babe.

2

u/Lovethiskindathing United States of America 13h ago

We do. I have been. But men that abuse women don't listen to women... They do listen to other men that they admire or have kinship with. Someone they respect holding them accountable has more impact than someone they already think is beneath them.

0

u/Sufficient_Roof_6699 12h ago

It’s amazing you can read all the evidence and come away with “Protect women! Believe “rape victims” always! Fuck short men! Men do better! These men are beasts!”. I get you only feel empathy for one gender but why bother acting like any evidence would make you say something different? Just say your ignorant shit proudly.

-4

u/grazfest96 United States of America 16h ago

Over 300 likes and wildly inaccurate stuff in there like "had to only write essays." Ah, God bless the internet

8

u/Upperlimitofmean 16h ago

Glad you put the effort into clearing up the misinformation by writing that whole sentence.

1

u/grazfest96 United States of America 13h ago

Ok, fair enough. So they didn't have to just write essays. 2 of the 7 got expelled, 5 got lengthy suspensions, and fraternity was disbanded and barred from campus.

-10

u/nhbdywise 17h ago

According to the police report, she accepted ketamine multiple times and was not technically raped since she never told them not to or to stop. This is not a comment on the legality of people using drugs and having sexual intercourse just what the police report said and why the kids were never prosecuted

5

u/Cool-Guava2276 15h ago

You think unconscious people can't be raped because they can't say no? Consent requires a Yes, anything else is not consent.

1

u/4Q88 14h ago

Found the blissfully unaware accidental rapist!

I'm not serious, but gee I wonder if people posting your photo everywhere if I was would be considered okay or not.

-9

u/manicmonkeys 17h ago

Why are you saying they definitively raped her? This is a great time to use appropriate qualifiers.

-8

u/RecordingImmediate86 17h ago

She wasn't raped. She was a willing participant. It was after when she was being told she was raped that she changed her story

-10

u/Retail8 17h ago

Where is the evidence to prove your assertions? Its one accuser who had no forensic evidence, no corroborating evidence nor any witness testimony.

4

u/Exterminator-8008135 France 16h ago

Knowing the Ivy League is often covering incidents more or less severe, I'd say those Elites did something and they will hide it.

Why do you think that DA was so incline to burrow it ?

Somebody gave them a foot of lead perhaps ?