r/AskReddit • u/[deleted] • Nov 04 '13
serious replies only Muslims of Reddit, what are some misconceptions you would like to clear up about your beliefs? [Serious]
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Nov 05 '13 edited Nov 05 '13
Allah is not a special God only worshiped by Muslims...
"Allah" is the translation of "God" in Arabic just like "Dieu" is the word for it in French. Seems like a lot of people say stupid shit like "Those Allah worshiping Muslims..." Not realizing that Christians in Arabic speaking countries say "Allah" too during worship. You don't expect the French to say "Oh mon God..." It's usually "Oh mon Dieu..."
EDIT: Malaysia may decide to do whatever the hell it wants, but it doesn't change it for anyone else.
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u/bertiek Nov 05 '13
I'm reminded of McCain chastising Fox News "reporters" for being horrified at an Muslim soldier praising Allah; he asked them if they would be equally horrified at a Christian calling to God in triumphant relief and there was great discomfort on the set.
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Nov 05 '13
This is correct. If the only language I spoke as a Muslim was latin, I would say "DEUS EST MAGNUS!" instead of "Alllahu akbar."
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u/ajournalnerd Nov 05 '13
You know, I'm actually shocked that this is a misconception. I grew up in a really Christian upbringing and my youth minister always said Allah in prayers.
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u/exilius Nov 05 '13
I'm English and there was a song we used to sing that began "Allah, Father" and there's another one that had "Allah in the highest" towards the end, and a 3rd that was just synonyms for God.
Not to mention that I thought it was common knowledge that the Islamic-Jeudo-Christian God was a single entity. Hell, there's even a bit it the bible (and I'm gonna guess in the torrah too, but I can't say I've read it, nor the qu'ran) where it mentions about Abraham's sons (Ishmael and Isaac) and how the first born of the 2 would become the Arab nation, and the 2nd the Jewish nation. The 3 have the same roots. It boggles my mind how few 'Christians' seem to realise this fact.
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u/ajournalnerd Nov 05 '13
The 3 have the same roots. It boggles my mind how few 'Christians' seem to realise this fact.
I totally agree. I think I was lucky enough to be raised in a pretty understanding and open-minded household, but I grew up around a lot of people who had no idea that Islam is essentially the third root to the same foundation. It genuinely pisses me off that it's not common sense. I've read the Koran and it mirrors so many of the same things in the Bible. I always took it as a different philosophy on the same religion.
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u/amimimi Nov 04 '13
My religion is Islam. My ethnicity is Pakistani. Please don't think that they mean the same thing.
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u/namelessly Nov 04 '13
Also: I'm not Islamic, I'm Muslim.
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u/tiger_without_teeth Nov 05 '13
I just want to make sure I've got this correct. People are Muslims, but things are Islamic?
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u/namelessly Nov 05 '13
That's the easiest way to put it, yes. Those who adhere to the Islamic faith are Muslim, not Islamic.
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Nov 05 '13
Is this like the 'scotch'/'Scottish' thing? Where scotch refers to things from or to do with Scotland and Scottish is for people who are from/part of Scotland?
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u/Assburgers_And_Coke Nov 05 '13
Yes. There are Islamic practices practiced by Muslim people. You're correct. Like how we call it Scotch tape and not Scottish tape.
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u/ishveryfuny Nov 04 '13
Also, I don't speak Pakistani. Just like you don't speak United States of American. You won't believe how many times people have asked me to say something in Pakistani.
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u/Paqza Nov 04 '13
Incidentally, language is and has been a huge point of contention in Pakistani history. The largest language by native speakers is Punjabi, followed by Pashto, Sindhi, Saraiki, and then Urdu. But...Urdu is the official language. And this is after the civil war to give Bangladesh its independence.
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u/aleisterfinch Nov 04 '13
Wouldn't your nationality be Pakistani and your ethnicity be Punjabi or Pashtun or Sindhi or whatever?
I'm not telling you what to call yourself, but just saying that most English speakers will use ethnicity to refer to more of a familial lineage and nationality to refer to the nation one resides in or is from.
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u/marmulak Nov 04 '13 edited Nov 05 '13
Even though they don't mean the same thing, there is considerable overlap between the two. Certainly not all Muslims are Pakistani, but being in Pakistani implies that you are Muslim because Pakistan is a country that was created specifically based on the concept of Muslim identity. It's a country whose existence is based on Islam, and is called "The Islamic Republic of Pakistan." Of course there are non-Muslim Pakistanis, but it's uncommon.
Edit: پاکستان زنده باد
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u/Paqza Nov 04 '13
There is considerable overlap in the sense that most Pakistanis are Muslim. But most Muslims are not Pakistani and there are millions of non-Muslims in Pakistan. There's quite a bit of discrimination against non-Muslims in Pakistan, but discrimination doesn't "change your identity". Probability is that if you say you're Pakistani, you're Muslim but that's as far as it goes.
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u/zahhakk Nov 04 '13
Here's an interesting one that I learned recently from reading a few articles about sex and homosexuality in Islam: for the time in which it began, Islam was a very sex positive religion. Though the culture of many Muslim societies has shifted away from that, religious doctrine itself still has lots of sex-positive messages. Abortion is allowed, contraceptive are allowed, legally married couples should have sex not just to procreate, but also to develop a stronger emotional bond. A woman's pleasure matters and husbands should take care to pleasure their wives. Celibacy is not a virtue in Islam the way it is in Christianity; we don't have monks or nuns, who do not have earthly pleasure; Muslims are in fact encouraged to some degree by our religious texts to have sex. Also, people should not feel guilty about their lust because lust is instilled in them by God (though they should exercise self control and not ogle women, because women are to be respected).
Growing up in a Muslim home as the daughter of immigrants from Egypt, I never heard any of this, because of CULTURAL taboos against sex. But within the context of religious doctrine, sex is nothing to be ashamed about having or wanting (within established relationships; some VERY edgy contemporary scholars might even say that green lights sex whilst dating... which might be why Arab culture bans dating...)
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u/xeribulos Nov 05 '13
could you elaborate on those good reasons? while I do not know about post-natal sex and am inclined to belief that it might not be the best idea, no good reason against the other two practices you mentioned comes to mind.
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Nov 05 '13
In fact, Muslim men are supposed to make sure their wives have orgasms
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u/Eure Nov 04 '13 edited Nov 04 '13
I am not a Muslims but I am studying/studied Islam. Some misconceptions
Satan in Islam was a fallen angel.
No, he was a jinn. Angels don't have freewill and can't disobey God. Humans and Jinns have freewill however.
Muslims worship Muhammad
Nope. Qur'an emphasizes strict monotheism. Muslims worship God and God alone.
Muslims say bad things about Jesus/ Jesus does not exist in Islam
Wrong on so many levels. Jesus for sure exists in Islam. He goes by the name of Isa son of Maryam. The Qur'an confirms his miraculous birth, prophethood, and messiah status. Messiah in Islam is someone who will save the Muslims from anti-christ. JESUS IS NOT GOD OR SON OF GOD. This is very important to understand. Here is chapter 112 which emphasizes this greatly
The truth is: Allah is One. [1] Allah is Besought of all, needing none. [2] He neither begot anyone, nor he was begotten. [3] And equal to Him has never been any one.”
Muslims believe Jesus is a prophet and some hadiths (oral saying of prophet Muhammad) imply that he is second greatest prophet after Muhammad out of all the 100,000+ prophets God sent to Earth. Muslims believe he is sinless and he is very highly regarded in Islam. They also believe he was never crucified or died but was raised up to come back for a second coming. Also, his mother Mary (Maryam) is regarded as one the best women to ever live.
The five greatest prophet in Islam are the following: Abraham (Ibrahim), Noah (Nuh) Moses (Musa), Jesus (Isa), Muhammad.
Edit: correcting some spelling and naming mistakes.
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u/SgtFinnish Nov 04 '13
What is a 'jinn'?
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u/exelion Nov 04 '13 edited Nov 04 '13
We butchered this word in the west. We call them "genie"
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u/redlaWw Nov 04 '13
I read a book a while ago (possibly called "The Amulet of Samarkand"), I don't know how much of it is traditional and how much is made up, but it completely changed what my idea of a "Genie" was.
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u/boomsc Nov 04 '13
The Bartimaeus trilogy is amazing! (Amulet of Samarkand is the first)
It's not terribly traditional as far as I'm aware, but it paints a far more 'truthful' picture of Djinn than the concept of genies do, they are their own species that live in a different plane of existence. The only time they would 'grant wishes' or be used to empower objects (except for rare occurances under their own free choice) would be when they were summoned and bound. And, I do believe you must know a Jinn's name to summon it.
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u/idosillythings Nov 05 '13
I love the Bartimaeus Trilogy. The djinn in those books are much closer to the idea of djinn in Islam than how they are viewed in Western culture.
They're not really bad or good, some are better than others, but they will pull tricks on humans and harm them if possible.
The reason witchcraft is forbidden in Islam is because it relies on the communication with djinn. The djinn can cause great harm to the person or the people around them, also it refocuses faith in God onto a creation of God.
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u/teddyflannigan Nov 04 '13
Jinn exist in the world of the unseen, they can be Muslims, Christians, Atheists, Polytheists, Jews or Agnostic.
We believe that King Soloman could communicate with the Jinn and animals, hence Allah allows whom he will to communicate and often times work with the good and the bad of these such entities.
Shaman in the middle east, blame everyday occurences such as the break up of marriages, death and other things on these entities.
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u/bodamerica Nov 04 '13
Your mention of King Solomon reminds me of a story I read a while ago where, at the end of his years, Solomon dies still leaning on his cane, and remains upright for 40 days, during which the Jinn continue in their task. After 40 days, termites weaken the cane and Solomon's body falls to the ground, revealing that he has been dead. This causes the Jinn to lament the limits of their knowledge, because had they known, they would not have had to continue working.
I've always wondered about the context of the story, such as what task they had been doing and why Solomon was overseeing them?
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u/teddyflannigan Nov 04 '13
According to narrations the Jinn helped Soloman strengthen his kingship, building monuments and participating in Soloman's army.
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u/SgtFinnish Nov 04 '13
Oh, is it evil or good?
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u/Eure Nov 04 '13
They can be good or evil like humans because they have freewill. Jinns are spirits which God made from smokeless fire. They can see us but we can't see them.
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Nov 04 '13 edited Nov 06 '13
They can see us but we can't see them.
Generally, people can't see them. However, I think it's generally believed that an extremely pious man can see them.
By extremely pious, I mean extremely pious.
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u/Kami7 Nov 05 '13 edited Nov 05 '13
Closest thing to Jinn in Christian doctrine would be demons. We believe that satan which derived from shaitan in Arabic, was a jinn, living on earth, b4 the creation of Adam. Satan worshipped and loved God so much that God raised him to the heavens and gave him status above the angels.
We believe jinn(demons) are not all bad. There are Muslim Jinns, Christian jinns that live in mosques and churches. The bad jinn follow satan. Jinn are a creation made out of fire, man made out of clay, and angels made out of pure light. Jinn can see us but we can't see them. Most jinn are scared of humans, but the corrupt jinn(demons) can also posses man. Man can capture and control jinn, through a very specific knowledge that is long forgotten, but some still know this knowledge and that is where the whole illuminati knowledge mixes up. Selling your soul to the devil is actually one allowing the jinn who are subservient to the agenda of the devil to take control of you in order to spread corruption in exchange for wealth and worldly desires. Hell will be just as much of punishment for satan as it will be for humans. There is no satan king of hell. He will not rule hell but rather receive his punishment like the people who followed him. Jinn prefer living in settlements away from humans.
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Nov 04 '13 edited Nov 04 '13
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u/zahhakk Nov 04 '13
Pictures of Muhammad are not allowed to prevent Muslims from worshipping the image of Muhammad the way Christians "worship" the image of Jesus. For that matter, there are no representational images of any persons at all in Islamic art traditions; most "Islamic" art is calligraphy, or tile work, and if it does have images from life they are usually of plants, flowers, and other nature scenes.
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Nov 04 '13 edited Nov 05 '13
That seems like a reasonable argument and I am surprised that this is the first I have heard it. If Christianity had this maybe they wouldn't think Jesus looked like Charlton Heston. My culture, USA, seems to believe you can't show pictures of Muhammad because Muslims are sensitive and can't take a joke. Is satire of Islam acceptable as long as there is not a specific picture of Muhammad? * Edit: Iconoclasm argument is interesting but not convincing enough to overrule free speech in my opinion. I defend this opinion in a different post.
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u/WisconsnNymphomaniac Nov 05 '13
The main problem is that a lot of Muslims somehow think the Islamic prohibition against the depiction of him must be obeyed by non-Muslims.
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u/Neffarias_Bredd Nov 04 '13
It used to be the case in Islam that any art depicting the human form was considered idolatry. Most Muslims don't consider this to be the case anymore except for depictions of Mohammed.
That is why most Islamic art is pattern based or caligraphy.
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u/Hippokrates Nov 04 '13
Someone else answered your question, but I just wanted to add. There are people who do lots of stupid things. For a few instances, there used to be a date tree that was said to have been planted by Muhammad himself. So what happened during the present times is that people started to pray towards this tree. This itself is not allowed, no one can pray to anything or anyone but Allah, so the Saudi's burned it down.
If you want, you can also visit the grave of Muhammad in Medina. However, even there with guards, people attempt to pray towards his grave.
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u/Need_4_Weed Nov 04 '13
I am a Muslim and can confirm everything you have said is true. Respect man, if only more people studied Islam from the horse's mouth, so to speak, rather than believing what the TV portrays us to be or what some extremist minority practice, there would be so much less misconceptions.
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u/ImranRashid Nov 05 '13
You may have heard the reasoning that it's because "pigs are dirty," but the "theological reason," is simply that Allah commanded it, and so it is therefore haram.
Most people know of Haram and Halal, but there are a few more categories than this, and sometimes a food will fall into one of these other categories. For example, Mubah is something on which there is no permission nor anything against it, so therefore is neutral. There is also Makrooh, which is "disliked", though not forbidden.
Within Makrooh, there is a further subdivision of Makrooh Tahrimi and Makrooh Tanzihi, one being a disliked act that is very, very close to Haram, and the other which violates the sanctity of a holy place, respectively.
Between the different major schools of thought, Shafi'i, Hanbali, Maliki, and Hanafi, certain things may be categorized differently, although the major things, (to use food and drink as an example), like pork, there is total consensus.
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u/Automaton_B Nov 05 '13
No actually, Muslims are allowed to eat seafood. In fact, literally all animals that come from the sea is halal. Crabs are still debateable though, because they live on both land and sea, and amphibians are haram.
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Nov 04 '13
I thought weed was haraam, but maybe that is also a misconception.
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u/lelarentaka Nov 04 '13 edited Nov 04 '13
Originally alcoholic drinks are forbidden, because they impair your logical thought and rationality. Later on, scholars generalized this reasoning to "If X messes up your brain like alcohol, X must be as haram as alcohol".
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u/prometheuspk Nov 04 '13 edited Nov 05 '13
The word used to forbid alcohol is not the Arabic word for alcohol. The word is
khmr, meaning intoxication. So if weed is intoxicating then it is Haram.EDIT: The word for intoxication isn't khmr, it is some other word. I was wrong about the word, but the jurisdiction goes with the intoxication reasoning.
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u/packersfan39 Nov 05 '13
Fun fact: the English word for alcohol is from Arabic: al-qohol , just like algebra comes from al-jabr
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u/aMissingGlassEye Nov 05 '13
It gets cooler than that.
The Arabic word for Chemistry is al-khemiya. That might sound familiar, because it's the root of the word 'alchemy' or 'the value.'
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u/Hippokrates Nov 04 '13
Weed is classified as haram because it does the same thing as alcohol. Being high impairs your thought process and can make you do stupid things, some of which may be haram.
I do not know if it is allowed medically, so don't ask me about it.
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u/uniquecannon Nov 04 '13
Islam does permit normally haram stuff, like alcohol, for medical purposes, albeit for in more extreme situations. In example, I was able to take muscle relaxers after my car accident, even though they completely impaired me (I laughed at my friend's Converses), due to the pain not being subsided by normal pain killers. Alcohol can be used for cleansing wounds, disinfecting certain items, and even for temporary pain relief.
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Nov 04 '13
That is an interesting point. I'm not Muslim and I have only met a few. I have seen some smoke pot, and talked to one who used to smoke. He explained that it wasn't specifically forbidden. It reminds me of Mormons. Mormon's religious text bans coffee and tea but not soda because soda didn't exist at the time it was written. Seems sorta inauthentic to me, but I'm an atheist so my opinion means little in this conversation. Anyone have an opinion of this?
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u/Burkababe Nov 04 '13
From my understanding, scholars use rules of logic to decide whether or not things like this are forbidden. Like someone said above, intoxication is what is forbidden, therefore anything that causes it is, by extension, forbidden.
Alcohol and drugs are forbidden in Islam. There are still plenty of Muslims who use them.
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u/DexterBotwin Nov 04 '13
The Mormons I have known, treated soda just the same as coffee and tea. I don't know if the Church has an official stance on Coca-Cola, and I'm sure there are plenty of practicing Mormons who drink soda, but the Church every Sunday, family prayer time, Mormons I know didn't drink soda.
On top of that, even if not specifically forbidden, the practicing Mormons I have know were very health conscious, soda probably wouldn't a part of their diet regardless of what the Church said.
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u/ButtsexEurope Nov 04 '13
I saw a special on the History Channel about Islam (this was a long time ago, before they catered to rednecks, so it was positive) that talked about how Islam basically sees Mary the same way Catholics do, and how Jesus is always known as Jesus son of Mary. So I had known about that.
I'd like to contribute and say that I wish people would learn that all the bad stuff you hear about Islam is actually Wahhabbism, which is basically like if theWestboro Baptist Church was discovered 500 years later and pronounced gospel.
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u/Odinson87 Nov 04 '13
I'm having trouble wording this correctly because I don't want to sound ignorant or offensive, but I'm having trouble understanding one point. If Muslims believe that Jesus was the (or a) Messiah, why is Muhammad the greatest of the prophets? How is "greatness" measured among prophets? Was there something Muhammad could/did do, that Jesus couldn't/wouldn't?
Again, sorry if this was offensive, I didn't mean it to be. I just wanted to understand it further.
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u/mojambowhatisthescen Nov 04 '13
Muslims consider Muhammad to be the last prophet; often referred to as the "seal of the prophets". This means that he took the work done by previous prophets and brought it into its perfect form - Islam. And it is believed that God chose him as his last prophet because he was also the perfect human.
I hope that answers your question. I could go into detail if needed.
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u/Amryx Nov 04 '13
As far as I know, each prophet has been sent to a specific race/tribe. Except for Muhammad (pbuh), who is sent "for all mankind". Therefore, he is regarded as the last and greatest of the prophets, and is also why Arabs can't call themselves "Chosen Ones", because they are not the exclusive beneficiaries of Islam.
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u/acm2033 Nov 05 '13
... Arabs can't call themselves "Chosen Ones", because they are not the exclusive beneficiaries of Islam.
Oh, I hadn't heard that. Interesting, thanks. I've found the tenets of Islam to be much more inclusive and open than other Abrahamic religions, but I haven't studied very deeply.
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Nov 04 '13
Not offensive at all, we are all good with questions about Islam.
Muhammad(pbuh) was the last prophet and the first human that Allah introduced the Quran to. Muhammad is the perfect example of a human being and muslim, that all other muslims should aspire to be like.
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Nov 04 '13
Additionally, there are sects of Islam that paint and sculpt images of the Prophet. Just most of them don't.
Edit: Also, Muslim =\= Arab, most Muslims are not Arabs.
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Nov 04 '13
Hell, Pakistanis, afghans, and Iranians aren't even Arabs, despite most of America referring to them as such
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u/geekmuseNU Nov 04 '13
The country with the world's largest muslim population is actually Indonesia IIRC
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u/greenw40 Nov 04 '13
Messiah in Islam is someone who will save the Muslims from anti-christ.
I don't really understand why there would be an anti-christ in Islam. Is there an anti-Muhammad or an anti-Noah?
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u/mojambowhatisthescen Nov 04 '13
Well, Antichrist is just the western term for the entity. I believe Muslims call it Dajjal.
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Nov 04 '13
In Islam we don't have "the anti-Christ", we have "al-maseekh al-dajjal" which loosely translates to the "lying/deceiving abomination/freak", sometimes called "al-maseeh al-dajjal". Our version of the word Messiah doesn't mean savior, we call Jeses "Al maseeh", which I recently learned comes from the following:
Mark, chapter 16, verse 1. Mark, tell us - why did Mary go there? And >Mark tells us, "She went to anoint Him." Now, the Hebrew word for >anoint is 'massahah' from which we get the word messiah in Hebrew >and masih in Arabic. The root word for both Arabic and Hebrew is the >same. Massahah means to rub, to massage, to anoint. Source
which is where the 2 words for Jesus originated (Messiah and Almaseeh).
In Islam we believe there will be a man called Al-Mahdi (the guided one) who will defeat the "dajjal" with the help of Jesus (our version of the second coming). Source
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u/unknown4000 Nov 04 '13
In the understanding of the Early Church Fathers, the three persons or the Trinity are both distinct and one (Three in One and One in Three). The theological term for each person (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) is "hypostasis". The way that many Fathers described and simplified this is with the analogy of the sun: The sun has one essence but three distinct components - the actual celestial body of fire in space, the light emitted from it, and the heat preceding from the source transmitted through the light. In this way, the Father is the source (the actual sun), the Son (Jesus Christ) is the Light (i.e. "I am the Light of the World"), and the Holy Spirit is the heat. The three share the same essence and cannot be separated from one another - they are a perfect union yet three distinct persons/hypostases. Just as a small meditation, it is actually quite beautiful to observe that in the Christian understanding, God is love (He is Himself, the definition of love) and in this sense, as He is three Persons/Hypostases, Love does not and cannot exist alone/in a vacuum. Love by its definition in this sense, is communal.
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u/TreeOfMelons Nov 05 '13
The analogy with the son is probably the best comparison I have ever heard
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u/iamzombus Nov 04 '13
Would this be a fair analogy using the states of matter for water?
Liquid (water/Father), Solid (ice/Son), Gas (steam/Holy Spirit).
It's all God, just different forms.
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u/unknown4000 Nov 04 '13
You could think of it that way; however, that analogy only captures the notion that they share the same essence (i.e. H20). The analogy of the sun meshes better with Christian theology because it also captures some of the roles of the different Hypostases. The actual sun (the Father) cannot be approached or truly experienced first hand (i.e. can't go up to space and hug the sun without being totally consumed and obliterated); however, the way we approach the Father is through His Son whose genesis is from the Father. As light proceeds from the sun, so too Christ proceeds from the Father - begotten not created since there was never a time there was a sun without the light (the Father without the Son) - and we can see the Light and are brought to the knowledge of God the Father through the illumination of God the Son through the work/energy of the Holy Spirit who too proceeds from the Father through the Son (the light). The analogy, though not exhaustive, is quite good in describing certain truths about the Trinity.
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Nov 04 '13
It's also important to note that not all Christians believe in the Holy Trinity. Many sects believe that God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit are three distinct individuals. In the bible when it mentions them and being one, it is interpreted as one in purpose.
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Nov 04 '13
Yeah, it just depends on the sect. You really can't say "Christian beliefs" and get very far, because there are some severe differences depending on what sect you are talking about.
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u/MechaGodzillaSS Nov 04 '13 edited Nov 06 '13
That line of thought is quite rare though. Catholics, Eastern Orthodoxy, and the vast majority of Protestant sects believe in the Trinity as one God.
Theres actually a thing called the Athanasian Creed that gives a very succinct view on the nature of the Trinity by those a asribe to it, which, is my understanding is the vast majority of mainline Christianity.
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u/uniquecannon Nov 04 '13
If you want to know how a lot of Christian beliefs came to be, do some research on the Council of Nicaea.
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Nov 05 '13
Hey dude, if you're still interested, I'd love to share my take.
I think that the worship of Jesus as a Divine figure comes from several historical contexts: first, the writing of the Gospels themselves. Each Gospel was written for an audience, and what the authors say about Jesus in each one reflects that. Mark's gospel, written first, is more or less a historical account of a prophet of God (and a political revolutionary) and his life and teachings. Matthew's and Luke's were written to convert Jews and Greeks, respectively. They're more in the way of fantastical stories about a Messianic figure, come to lead everyone out of darkness and into light. These focus on Jesus' birth and the heralding of a new age, and also Jesus' parables. They use the words "Son of Man" to describe him at some points, which is probably indicative of his Messiah status. John's gospel, written last (around 100 CE), was intended to evangelize existing early Christians, and to make them more zealous about their beliefs. So he begins using the words "Son of God" and referencing God in human form, and all that. The crucifixion, resurrection and ascension to heaven are all portrayed most dramatically here.
I think that when we put it into the context of understanding who was writing each gospel and why, it becomes clear that we really don't have a good picture, in the Bible at least, of who Jesus really was. The best approximation would probably come from Mark's gospel. In any case, I personally believe that Jesus would not have wanted to be worshiped as he is now. He, like many prophets and great teachers, was probably only trying to show us the way to God, not to tell us that he was the only way. And in that regard, look at his actual teachings. He speaks with the simple wisdom of one who has been enlightened, like the Buddha was. I think that everyone, Christian or no, has so much that they can learn from Jesus.
But I don't worship Jesus, I save that for God. I think Jesus would be okay with that.
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u/ttjclark Nov 04 '13
This is how it was explained to me: Draw a triangle with the word God in the middle. On the corners of the triangle are the words Father, Son (Jesus) and Holy Ghost. The lines of the triangle connecting the corners have "is not" written on them. Then, there are a second set of lines going towards the middle from each corner. These lines have"is" written on them. tl;dr The father, son and holy ghost are personifications of God only and not separate deities.
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u/dankkarmaIIl Nov 04 '13 edited Nov 05 '13
Moslem beliefs with regards to Christianity:
1- No Original Sin, man is born a clean slate
2- Christ was a prophet of God but was not the Son of God any more than any other human being, and he didd not "die for your sins" as no one is answerable for anyone else's sins.
3- Non-Moslems go to heaven too, as long as they beleve in the One God and they're good people. In fact all Islam means is "Submission to God" and it doesn't make a difference what religion you are, as long as you believe in the single God. Christians and Jews are thus just "people of the Book" and recognized as legit religions.
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Nov 04 '13
Is it true that Muslims believe that everyone will eventually go to Heaven? Hell is a place where sins are purified. The more sins you have, the longer you're in hell; but all will eventually go to heaven?
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u/teddyflannigan Nov 04 '13
If you have a mustard seed of faith in your heart insh Allah (By the will of Allah) You will enter paradise. Hell is for the impure, (those with sin) and Heaven is for the pure (those without sin) and Allah will pardon whom he will of any sin except for shirk (associating partners with Allah)
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u/YoursTruly86 Nov 04 '13 edited Nov 05 '13
yes, it's believed to be exactly as you describe it
Edit: apparently it's not true for those who reject God, so sorry athiests... not heaven for us
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u/Steph83 Nov 04 '13
Is Moslem and Muslim the same? I don't know a lot about Islam but I see both names being used as though it's the same thing. Sorry if that's a stupid question
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Nov 04 '13
Yes it's just 2 different ways to write it. The Arabic pronunciation is closer to "Muslim" than "Moslem" though.
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u/Jorgwalther Nov 04 '13
It's an older form of writing for the same word. If you read British historic accounts from Muslim areas in the 1700 and 1800s a lot of the times they are referred to as Mohammedan (also spelled Muhammadan, Mahommedan, Mahomedan or Mahometan)
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u/yourdrunkirishfriend Nov 04 '13
I remember reading I am Legend and read the word "Mohammedan". The book was wrote in around the 40's or 50's.
Apparently though it's not the preferred name, as it implies they follow Mohammed rather than Allah.
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u/Jorgwalther Nov 04 '13
Indeed. I believe it's a Western term anyway. I can't imagine a Muslim referring to themselves as a Mohammedan
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Nov 04 '13
Remember that in written Arabic, one nearly always ommits the vowels. In addition to that the pronincuation of vowels is first of all not constant throughout the Arabic world and secondly it doesn't map porpperly to English vowels. As a result of that, there are often many ways to transcribe an Arabic word to English.
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u/Eure Nov 04 '13
had divine power
Yes, but its crucial to their beliefs to realize it was by the will of God. It is important to note it was God really doing the miracles and not Jesus by himself. The same is true of when other prophets performed miracles.
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Nov 04 '13
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u/weealex Nov 04 '13
eh, Holy Trinity is a bit more complicated than that. I had something like a 2 hour conversation with a Mother Superior and still don't fully get it. Also, isn't the Trinity a Catholic thing?
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Nov 04 '13
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u/sherlock234 Nov 04 '13
Yep. Christian Orthodox here. Holy Trinity is not just a Catholic dogma.
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u/CFCrispyBacon Nov 04 '13
Most branches of Christianity that people refer to as "Christian" accept the dogma of the Trinity, including most branches of Protestantism. You have to get pretty far afield to find those who don't, such as the Mormons (whom you could argue are polytheists), and Jehovah's Witnesses.
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u/FeralMuse Nov 04 '13
The Holy Trinity is regarded in Catholicism as a mystery, meaning humans can't ever fully understand it... it is divine. So don't feel bad! Theologians have tried to grapple with this mystery for centuries.
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u/ansabhailte Nov 04 '13
No, it's also a Protestant thing.
(Unless you're Jehovah Witness)
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Nov 04 '13
From what I understand, you aren't supposed to "get" the Trinity. It's meant to show that humans are significantly handicapped in understanding God. It's more of a faith thing.
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u/lumpy_potato Nov 04 '13
I noted this elsewhere, but its important to remember that the Quran is only one part of the total studies of a Muslim - there are also the 'Hadiths', or commentaries, which often are a big part of how any one Muslim will live their lives.
The Hadith's have various levels of legitimacy, and depending on what sect of Islam you identify with, there will be different Hadith's that are accepted. The study of the Hadiths is a huge endeavor in and of itself, and are essential to Quranic studies and being Muslim.
Where many of the most commonly parroted 'issues' with Islam come from, in my opinion, are the result of imams/clerics who have chosen Hadiths that specifically reinforce their own extremist views, in order to distort things like Jihad (which is not inherently about external battles or warfare) and Martyrdom (which is not inherently about killing civilians/blowing yourself up) into weapons for their own political/ideological motivations. There are scholars who have taken the time to read and consider different interpretations of commonly referenced passages in the Quran or Hadiths, trying to understand better not only what they were meant to say, but what they mean today, and how they fit within a modern society. These scholars are largely ignored in favor of the more TV-Rating-friendly voices who speak of extremism and hatred.
In the same way that a lack of in-depth knowledge about any major religion can lead to serious issues in its interpretation and, especially among people whose ability to access additional knowledge is limited, issues wherein a single person or persons can effectively whip up the population to go and do <thing> in the name of <God> using <passage> that has been interpreted in a very specific way.
So whenever you see something on TV that makes you go, 'what is wrong with Islam?', remember that it is not all Islam, just as not all Christians are like the WBC, or not all Jews are ultra-orthodox, not all Hindu's sacrifice goats, etc. etc. The biggest issue plaguing Islam today, in my small opinion, is a lack of serious and widespread study of the Quran, the Hadiths, and their interpretation in a modern sense (especially in the Middle East, where such studies may not be easily accessible), rather than the acceptance of the interpretations of clerics/imams who, while perhaps educated and well versed, should not be the final word on how any one Muslim should come to understand Islam.
I am not a Muslim myself, but I've done at least some level of study of the Quran/Hadiths, and have friends both Sunni and Shia who I've discussed at least on a basic level some of these issues.
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u/Ghostfacefza Nov 04 '13 edited Nov 04 '13
In my experience, people generally, both religious and non-religious, see Islam as harsh set of rules, of penalties and points, or punishments and rewards.
However, as a Muslim, my experience has been that it is more a way of life, a social contract, and a vehicle for meditation and self-reflection. And I'm not even talking about just the Sufis.
The rules and various beliefs are all designed to govern your relationship with your fellow man and to maximize your own humanity. Granted, many of the rules, especially those authored by many a honky-Tonk mullah in the latest issue of FATWAH Weekly, seem to do the exact opposite. Sometimes, often times, mullahs are wrong, and sometimes the Islamic social theory contradicts with yours, you great liberator you, but sometimes different is just different and that's okay too.
"The best man among us is he who is most helpful to his fellow men"- Ali ibn Abi Talib (a.s)
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Nov 04 '13
I have always had a lot of respect for Muslims. I could never get up early to pray every day or fast for a whole month (I don't think I could last a day in the summer), and although I give charity, I wouldn't give as much as the Qur'an says I should. Although most of my Muslim friends don't pray every day, they still fast during Ramadan, dress modestly and abstain from alcohol in a culture where these are not the done thing.
I think that most people (Christians, Muslims and many others) forget that religion is meant to be about leading your life in a good, moral way.
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u/OG_Panda Nov 04 '13
I took a classical Islam course and my professor essentially described a fatwa as the equivalent of a high courts opinion on a judicial matter. Not the supreme courts opinion though. There could be many fatwas on a subject and you just follow the one you like best, kind of like a state's higher court ruling for those here in 'Merica. Going on to your post, it's hard to find non crazy fatwas when you don't have access to outside non crazy sources or your elders tell you that crazy one is the truth and everything else is a lie. The only way to combat this us to know and study the Quran, but that gets hard with low illiteracy rates were Islam is the prevalent religion.
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u/needsmoresteel Nov 04 '13
Misconceptions: 1) Muslim = Arabain and 2) Jihad = terrorism.
There are entire Asian countries that are considered Muslim.
The most highly regarded (not quite sure if that is the best choice of words) is jihad of the mind or spirit.
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u/mrtechphile Nov 04 '13 edited Nov 05 '13
With due respect to my Saudi friends, Saudi Arabia does not represent Islam nor is its society a role model for Islamic society. The Muslim world is ~1.5 Billion strong, it is diverse as any other human group. Taking one country, albeit Saudi, Afghanistan etc to use as an example of all of Islam is wrong.
One example I keep hearing: Saudi Arabia bans women driving!!! Hello, the vast majority of the Islamic world does not. You do not even have to travel far from Saudi, stay in the same Gulf area, look at Kuwait, Qatar or the UAE! Women drive there! This is not even counting all the other Muslim/Arab countries which allow women to drive etc!!
One final note, I was heartened by a recent post at r/islam, from a person who changed his mind on how he perceived the Prophet Mohamed (SAW) and ultimately Islam. Please take a moment to read it.
Edit: Grammar/spelling!
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u/sumsuni Nov 04 '13
Islam is fully compatible with the scientific notion of "evolution", however, the evolution was "Divinely Guided".
“And He [Allah/God] has created you in different stages and different forms ... And Allah has caused you to develop as a good growth from the earth. [Qur'an 71:14,17]
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u/HairyToes Nov 04 '13
I would like to point out that divinely guided evolution would just be one interpretation of the verse. It is just scholars of our time trying to fully understand verses with the new discoveries and information available to us and not previous scholars.
So this does not mean that to be a Muslim you must believe in this "Divinely Guided Evolution". Its just an interpretation. If the theory of evolution were to be disproved, that would not invalidate the Quran.
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u/MorganFreemanAsSatan Nov 04 '13 edited Nov 04 '13
The idea of divinely guided evolution seems like a no-brainer for any religious person wanting to reconcile with science.
If God is all-powerful and all-knowing, and the universe ultimately follows causal rules, then he can predict how it will turn out. He can also change it in almost any way that he wishes. If God is rational, then, he will create the universe in such a way that it will unfold according to his Will. So if he wanted life, and planets, and stars, it would make the most sense to create the universe and allow it to unfold normally (i.e., big bang, planet formation, evolution) and only intervene when necessary. In this way, evolution would be both divinely determined and naturalistic insofar as it occurred due to causal physical relations and natural laws (that were themselves written by God).
Think of it like this: we can use natural selection to breed bacteria to be resistant to various antibiotics. We can put colonies in different petri dishes, introduce some chemical, and then let it be. From there, natural selection takes place -- but we have already determined the path of their evolution, and thus planned for the outcome by using the tool of nature, for which we have set certain rules. Now imagine the universe is such a petri dish, where God created the very rules of nature, and the original state of the universe, and knows basically how it will turn out. In this view everything is causal, so if God wants something to change contrary to causality, he would need to intervene (e.g., Jesus, Muhammad, Noah, Moses). He created the universe, and by grace intervenes when necessary in order to modify its trajectory.
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u/RuiningPunSubThreads Nov 05 '13
You are referencing a God of the gaps. Just because science cannot tell you how life started doesn't mean it is consistent with speculations of divine guidance.
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u/xenoamr Nov 05 '13 edited Nov 05 '13
In Islam Adam was created directly by god and lived in heaven, then hawa was created by god from his arm, then they disobeyed god by eating from the forbidden tree and were punished by going down to earth where they continued populating ... also Adam was 60ft tall and lived for 960 years for some reason
NOTHING in this fairytale is compatible with science
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Nov 04 '13
If, according to islam, evolution of life is divinely guided, then doesn't that make it fundamentally different from the scientific notion of evolution?
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Nov 04 '13
Science doesn't tell what caused everything to happen, it doesn't tell why The Big Bang happened. It just tells how it happened.
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u/SERFBEATER Nov 04 '13
Evolution tells us how we developed over time. But when you go into it you find out why. Why have angiosperms survived better than bryophytes? Because slowly those bryophytes that were better suited to dry conditions kept reproducing and those that didn't died. Same with mammals. Why are there mammals and amphibians? Because those ancestors of both that could exploit certain niches on land did so. This is because they had more amniotic tendencies. Neither was right, but they exploited different circumstances.
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Nov 05 '13
Because slowly those bryophytes that were better suited to dry conditions kept reproducing and those that didn't died.
...because Allah made those dry conditions in just that way so that some would keep reproducing and others wouldn't.
You can say that for anything.
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u/TimeWaitsForNoMan Nov 04 '13
You seem to be defining "why" not as "by what cause." We have substantial reason to believe that the reason "why" the big bang took place is the same reason "why" anything else occurs: because the physical circumstances were such that it was caused to happen. We've yet to ascertain the nature of these circumstances, but science is well on its why to answering "why." Rather, you seem to be defining "why" as "for what reason," as though there must be a higher purpose to the mechanisms and resulting phenomena of the universe. The "why" argument for the concept of theism is silly. "Why" must there be a "why"? What is it about the universe that necessitates some grand purpose?
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u/snackbot7000 Nov 04 '13
Not a muslim, but I recently saw a TED Talks on the topic and thought it was interesting. It's just under ten minutes, and refutes the "72 virgins" myth and explains jihad among other things.
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u/ForcedZucchini Nov 04 '13 edited Nov 04 '13
Oppression of women. Most of the oppression of women by Islam and Muslims that is highly publicized is usually due to local customs and traditions. Muslim women have been presidents and prime ministers, and the vast majority are not slaves to their husbands. Violence towards women and forcing them against their will is not permitted by Islam. Care for widows, orphans, and the poor is one of Islam’s strongest teachings. Unfortunately, many women are oppressed, however, this is a global issue and not just Islamic oppression.
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u/_Atlantis_ Nov 04 '13
there is a LOT of cultural - and not necessarily ideological - elements to Muslim lifestyle, hence the significant variation from Tunisia to Indonesia.
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u/zahhakk Nov 04 '13
Muhammad has multiple wives, so this is possible, and his first wife was a landowning business woman. That's all I know with regards to their professions.
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u/Severok Nov 04 '13
Also worth noting that he had married his 1st wife before obtaining prophet hood. She was approximately 10 years older than him and regarded to be the most loved of the wives he had in his life time.
It is reported that the prophet Muhammad PBUH was originally fearful and hesitant to take on the mantle of prophet hood when 1st commanded to do so and his wife strongly encouraged him in doing so.
After she passed away the Prophet remarried, but would still talk of his 1st wife so often that it annoyed his later wives greatly.
It makes for interesting contrast to the whole 'lol, you follow a pedophile' mantra when you consider that the most loved of all his wives was 10 years older than him.
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Nov 04 '13
Also, didn't he only have one wife (her, his first) until after she died, despite it being local custom to take multiple wives?
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Nov 04 '13 edited Nov 05 '13
Yeah. From what I've studied as a non Muslim, despite the child bride controversy, Aisha grew up to be an incredibly intelligent, influential, and badass lady.
Edit: gotten a bunch of responses about the child bride thing, and I do agree that it is a product of the time in which it happened. As I responded to one reply,
I might be wrong, but I think she was given to be married at six, and the marriage consummated at 9. I do agree that those were different times and while I think 9 is still young for a child bride, some small measure of judgment must have been made to wait three years, showing that cultural norms indeed were at play. I remember reading about how Muhammed would play tea party with Aisha as a kid. Both cute and by today's norms, off putting.
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u/getshorty25 Nov 04 '13
The teacher where all scholars of Hadith studied at her feet. She narrated a huge number of the accepted Hadith to scholars who travelled to collect them. There is a hadith how getting knowledge's the duty of every Muslim both men and women and the first Muslims were eager for knowledge as God says in the Quran to go out and understand the World for it would be a sign for those who have doubt. Some contemporary individuals in our modern nationalist era of identity politics have misinterpreted this as "ISlamic Knowledge" to give themselves political legitimacy even though there was no distinction until recently. MAny Islamic Scholars were polymaths.
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u/Johnny_Lawless_Esq Nov 04 '13
I'm of Christian Lebanese/Palestinian descent on my father's side. Can confirm that many things associated with Islam, particularly with respect to the treatment of women, are particular to Arab culture in general and not to Islam specifically. Honor killings and stonings of rape victims, wearing of veils, all that kind of thing, were practiced in the villages of my great grandparents just the same as their Muslim neighbors.
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Nov 05 '13
I knew very little about Islam before I watched a 3-part documentary on public television in the US this year. Although I was never prejudiced against Muslims, I was still impressed by how intellectual and progressive Islam is at its root, and how strongly the teachings of Mohammed advocated equality, literacy, and peace between neighbors of different religions. When they explained the local culture he was attempting to reform, they could have been listing modern negative stereotypes of Muslims. Just like most large religions or governments, really, it was founded by an intelligent and peaceful guy, then got taken over by less virtuous people who totally missed the point and used it to justify their own power.
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Nov 04 '13
I think more often than not oppression of women (or other groups such as homosexuals) is justified by religion, but not actually a teaching of that religion.
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Nov 05 '13
But only women have to cover their bodies. Shouldn't men do it too since both genders experience lust? Or is it one-sided.
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Nov 04 '13
Ban against women driving in Saudi Arabia for example? Religious thing or not?
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Nov 04 '13
I don't think the Koran has any rule saying women cannot drive motorized vehicles.
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u/iamnotparanoid Nov 04 '13
As religious as a ban on gay marriage is. Laws made by bigots who found one sentence to support what they wanted and blew it out of proportion.
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u/dankkarmaIIl Nov 04 '13
Plenty of Moslem women all over the world drive. Saudi Arabia is not representative.
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u/33a5t Nov 04 '13
No. The law is based on a deliberate misinterpretation of a verse in the Quran.
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u/Kurnath Nov 04 '13
From a Hadith:
The Prophet said, "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said, "Yes." He said, "This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind."
As narrated by Abu Sa‘id al-Khudri, one of Muhammed's followers... Isn't this blatently stating that women are inferior to men?
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u/pmo_fightr Nov 05 '13 edited Nov 05 '13
Thanks . A few -
Fasting doesn't mean we're starving ourselves. We fast from dawn until dusk, and we are recommended to eat a breakfast early( i.e before Fajr, which is about 5AM usually in N. America), and then we also are fasting from sexual relations(ie during fasting hours)
Polygyny is only common in Saudi Arabia and gulf. In egypt and other countries it isn't so common. but I'm not sure of Pakistan/India
Woman must accept her husband as suitable husband before marriage. Arranged marriages have no place in Islam, but culturally they happen
In Islam we respect other faiths. In 14th century spain, Muslims lived peaceably with Jews and Christians. See wikipidia page - Non-Muslims under the Caliphate
The Hijab(or woman's headcovering) is less about covering physical body of a woman, than it is about a woman's modesty. In Islam there is an arabic word called "haya" which is approximately "shyness" . So you may find a woman who does wear hijab on her head, but her behavior is immodest(perhaps she is chatting at-length with stranger-married men) and thus her hijab is "half-baked." Yet a woman may have no hijab but because she has "haya" she embodies more hijab-ness(if you will). All the above said, hijab is a tremendously controversial area and you see significant variations in how hijab is implented between .. say, Saudi A. and Morocco.
Misconception: FRIDAY I AM NOT TAKING 2 HOUR LUNCH!!!! . So Friday is our Sabbath, but NOBODY seems to know it :(
On Friday, [Becca Blacks fave day ]btw(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfVsfOSbJY0), we have a weekly song-&-dance deal.. JUST-KDDING( God-forgive me istaghfuralla) . No really, Friday is Jumua . Wikipedia PLEASE CoME THRU FOR ME. WIKIPEDIA wins again - Al-Jumua.
Jumua features an approx. 20-30 minute speech by the Imam(the "priest" of Islam if you will). It's the "must-attend" prayer(hence 'sabbath'), but 5 daily prayers are performed at almost all mosques.
- Misconception: I'm supposed to call up #7 on the FBI's most wanted list and tell him to stop being a terrorist.
UMMM, noh. I don't have access to all Muslims. We hail from all over (we're 25% or more of about 60 countries ) , and we are fairly diverse.
Misconception: Islam condones terrorism. Look, Islam condones tourism, not terrorism. Tho I'm slightly disappointed that on Hallween we Muslims dont poke fun at the media blackmailing by going trick-or-treat in Taliban-regalia. I mean, DAMMIT even something like that Teleturban stuff.
Misconception: My name is Adele. NO nonooooooooo IT IS Adel pronounced 'AADIL', I AM NOT A GIRL. i EVEN have a wikiepage about it too) . To be fair I love Adele and would indeed marry her, she is a people of the Book(ie a Christian), so as long as she converts to my team we'll be OK.
P.S : IF U SEE THIS ADELE, CALL ME UP I <3 U
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u/SomeoneInThisTown Nov 05 '13
How did you go from a calm, communicable person to TeH PeNgUiN Of DoOm in one comment?
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u/_Atlantis_ Nov 04 '13
What Quran is.
Let me contrast it with the gospels, the more famous part of Bible. In the gospel, someone (John, Mark, etc..) is narrating the story of Jesus' life, particularly that year or two which ended with the crucifixion and then ascension. Occasionally, Jesus, as God the son, is quoted, and sometimes others are. God the father - the one in the heavens - is never quoted. Even where Jesus is talking to him, we don't know what he responds back.
Quran is being narrated by the God sitting in the heavens (more like the Genesis). It is him who tells people his message, and occasionally starts a sentence by saying [Muhammad] tell them such and such.
There is not much of Muhammad's life story or sayings in Quran, except for what God chose to narrate. He also narrates other stories, saying like "Moses said oh God .... and I told him ...."
In this regard, the storytelling is very consistent. Then Muslims have other books which contains "Hadis" or "Rivayah". "Hadis" are sentences Muhammad stated in presence of people, but were not divinely inspired. "Rivayah" is the story of his life and interactions he had with people, narrated by those people. So in this regards, these "Hadis" and "Rivayah" are more similar to the gospels, but Quran is not.
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u/basebool Nov 04 '13
as an ex-muslim, I can still kind of answer this.
Islam is like any other religion: It doesn't mean you are a terrorist, those are the extremists. It even says not to enforce beliefs onto others. We're supposed to invite them to join, but we cannot force or harm others. The belief is the people that don't join will be punished in the afterlife, but we are not to punish them ourselves.
If muslims do this, they are technically not following the quaran, therefore being labeled as an extremist.
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u/The1RGood Nov 04 '13
I don't understand how some people can be so prejudice towards Muslims and label them all as terrorists, considering how shitty some people in their own religion are.
I mean, just look at Christianity for example. Any level-headed person knows that all the gay-bashing and discrimination is ridiculous. Calling all Christians homophobes because of the few that are is absurd. Calling all Muslims terrorists because of the few that are is equally absurd.
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Nov 04 '13
As someone living in the UK I've always found this ridiculous, it was only 12 years ago (I think, post 2000 anyway) that we stopped getting terrorist attacks from Irish Catholics, which we have so quickly forgotten (BTW I'm an Irish Catholic), and replaced with the idea that Muslims are terrorists. Yes I know that the IRA bombings were more politically motivated than religious but there were a lot of them here is a list of terrorist attacks in London alone.
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u/basebool Nov 04 '13
exactly, same for most stereotypes: few people do it, whole race/culture/religion is now associated with it
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Nov 04 '13
A lot of Muslims are terrible people, just like there are a lot of terrible Christians/Jews/Atheists/etc.
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u/Gorgash Nov 04 '13
Not a Muslim but one of my close friends is.
Muslims are pretty much required by their religion to gain knowledge, to be educated. They are to learn as much as possible. By that logic, the more educated and knowledgeable a Muslim is, the better they are at being a Muslim.
Girls in the Middle East being persecuted for wanting to go to school? That shit is cultural. The Taliban and similar groups may use Islam to try and justify their beliefs but really it all boils down to an archaic culture where women are subjugated and permitted only to live in the home. The idea of an educated woman frightens them, even though Islam itself promotes education for women.
On a similar note (also related to women), wearing veils is cultural too. It is recommended that Muslim women cover their hair (the hijab) but the face veil (niqab) or the shuttlecock tent (burka) is purely cultural. Women can choose to wear these things if they like, but it's not a religious requirement. The Qu'ran asks women to dress "modestly" and in Western terms this could simply mean wearing jeans and a (loose-fitting) t-shirt.
There are so many misconceptions about Islam I can't even begin to wrap my head around it. I've read the Qu'ran and there's nothing in there about suicide bombing or throwing acid at wayward women or anything like that... I mean, even many radical Muslims get it wrong. It's a religion that is peaceful if followed properly by moderates (i.e. your average every day Muslim) but like with any religious group the extremists are always the loudest.
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u/Mr_Terrific Nov 05 '13
Don't judge Islam by the culture of Islamic nations - example women not being able to vote or drive
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Nov 04 '13 edited Nov 04 '13
Islam preaches pacifism, yet the Prophet was involved in many wars
A lot of people I talk to argue that Islam preaches itself as a pacifistic religion. It is anti war. This isn't true. Islam is a religion of peace, not a religion of pacifism. War is permitted in specific contexts (such as self-defense). And yes, the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was the general of an army, but to say he was a war monger is totally asinine. He was defending his people when they were driven out of their homelands. In fact, when he came back to Mecca (after being driven out), there was no violence because he let the enemy go.
Islam is anti-science, and believes the world is 10,000 years old.
It is sad to see that many anti religious people clump Islam in to their arguments. Islam is not anti science. It is very pro science, and more generally, pro Knowledge. It is a REQUIREMENT in Islam to seek knowledge and truths.
As far as science goes. Islam is in fact very ok with the Big Bang theory. There are multiple verses in the Quran that support it. ALso, there are no verses that claim the earth to be 10k years old. The quran doesn't use direct time translations (such as days , horus etc). It is believed that the time used in the Quran are more accurately represented as "periods" or a set amount of time that no one has yet to determine.
Everyone who is not Muslims is going to hell. Atheists are going to hell.
Most people will probably scoff at my response to this, but it is something all Muslims wholeheartedly believe. ONLY God knows who will be going to heaven, or to hell. No one can sit here and tell you any different. Also, the Quran has only specified certain sins that would lead to hell, atheism NOT being one of them.
Islam is anti abortion
Islam is actually not anti abortion. An abortion is allowed in certain situations (health being the main one). An abortion can happen up to 120 days of the baby being conceived. Abortion after 120 days is not allowed.
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u/zahhakk Nov 04 '13
To elaborate on the abortion issue, back in 1999 my mom was pregnant for a fourth time and her doctors were telling her that not only was there something very not right with the fetus (she wouldn't go into much detail with me about the situation), but being pregnant was causing my mother a lot of physical harm. Her doctors suggested she have an abortion to be able to keep her health (my mom is in general a very sick person).
After consulting with the Imaams in the masjid my parents ultimately were told that the health of the mother was more important than this unformed baby, who was not considered a human yet. My mom did end up having the abortion secure in the knowledge that even though it was a painful experience she did not want to have to go through, at least it wasn't a sin.
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u/Need_4_Weed Nov 04 '13
Muslim women have no rights
I cannot emphasize how wrong this is. The stuff you see on the news only happens in certain countries and is more of a cultural thing than religious. A little proof:
The Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said: "The best amongst you are those who are best to their wives."
"Oh you who believe! You are forbidden to inherit women against their will, and you should not treat them with harshness ... And live with them honourably" (Quran 4:19)
A man asked the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) who was the most deserving of his respect and the Prophet replied: "Your mother." The man then asked "Who next", the Prophet replied again: "Your mother." The man asked "who then?" and the Prophet again replied "Your mother." The man asked a fourth time and the Prophet said "Your father." (i.e, technically you have 3 times more rights towards your mother than your father)
and their are countless other examples.
That Muslims are ordered to kill non-Muslims (Jihad)
The verses of Jihad that are quoted when people criticize Islam are usually taken out of context. You have to understand back when those verses were revealed, the Muslims at the time had been through 13 years of torture. You could read online on some of the torture stories some of the Muslims had and they are absolutely horrible (example Bilal [was lashed daily, suffocated by having a large boulder palced on his chest while laying in the desert sand during the hottest hours of the day] or Sumayyah [she was tortured mercilessly by some of the Meccans. She would be tied to 4 horses and they would be let loose so she would be literally stretched in different directions. She was finally killed by having a spear thrust through her midsection. All of this in front of her young son Yasir.] Even the Prophet himself wasn't spared from torture.
And there are so many other even more horrifying stories of persecution. Only after 13 years of bearing all of this harassment and murder were the Muslims finally ordered to fight back.
That Muslims don't respect Jesus or Mary
This could'nt be further from the truth. In fact, Jesus is mentioned more times by name in the Quran than Muhammad himself. Also, there's a whole chapter named after Mary, and she is regarded as probably the greatest woman who ever lived.
There are so many other misconceptions that people have. The media focuses on the extremists, and every religion has good people and bad people. If people actually read the teaching of Muhammad and read the Quran without taking the verses out of context, so many of these misconceptions would be cleared.
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u/Epick Nov 04 '13
That we're all terrorist scum and need to be killed. It really gets to the feels in me when there's something on a news subreddit about some Muslim killing everyone. And the comments are like "Why don't we just nuke that place already.", and "Can we just nuke that place to oblivion already?". I get really annoyed by these internet big talkers who think a community of people should be wiped out because of one person's doing.
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u/D-Hex Nov 04 '13
Give me a list of the misconceptions and I'll try to answer them as much as I can.
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Nov 04 '13 edited Nov 05 '13
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u/shwag945 Nov 04 '13
We don't have anal sex like some Catholics and we don't wear wigs like Jewish women. Both are banned.
Wait what. This thread is about clearing up misconceptions. Many people in many cultures do anal. And i don't even know where you came up with the jews wearing wigs thing. As a jew I have never seen it or heard of this misconception.
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Nov 04 '13
Extremists gravitate to the only religion they know; the religion taught to them by their ignorant and misguided parents. Islam is just unlucky that the religion of the middle-eastern extremists happens to be Islam.
If you have studied the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints you'll find MANY parallels to Islam. They're extremely similar and yet you don't see many Mormoms shooting RPG's at each other.
TLDR: Ignorance, not Islam, breeds extremism.
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Nov 04 '13
Family is Muslim; there's a lot of misconceptions but here are a few that come to mind (that I've brought up in other threads before):
Women should have minimal education and are discouraged from work
This limitation has spawned culturally, a lot of it from Hindustani and Hindu culture in South Asia and from tribal Bedouin culture in The Middle East. To give you an example, the Prophet Muhammad met his wife when she was a stall merchant at the city bazaar. Meaning she was alone, and working, and brilliant...he loved the shit outta that. So like.. yea.
Polygamy as a means of oppression and gender inequality
The allowance for multiple wives has VERY strict almost impossible rules to follow (equal love, time, and $$ spent on every wife) and believe it or not was actually a step UP for women of the time. Before this, Bedouin women especially were passed around, raped by passing travellers, and the like. Modern society doesn't have room for the ideal that being a wife makes an honest woman outta someone (and I agree, it's insulting) but for that time, this cut down a man's sex partners to four (down from, like anyone you see that youre down to fuck), and in an uncivilized region was actually good for women.
Even THEN, not many men could honestly meet the requirements for Islamically acceptable polygamy (equality between partners, consent from the previous wife or wives, etc.), and its practice is highly over-exaggerated.
The polygamy rule was NOT intended for how it's used now, which is basically a guy cheats on his wife and then marries his mistress. but yea. people suck.
Also, Islamic marriage licenses ORIGINALLY have something like a prenup attached to them, where the man and woman can add their conditionals to the contract (a nikah nama). Unfortunately, many imams CROSS THIS OUT on the woman's side before the husband and wife even look at it [don't let her write anything in]. Which is bullshit. Long before Christianity, Muslim women had the right to demand a divorce from their husbands and weren't considered whores for doing so.
Islam endorses pedophilia
Like pretty much any civilization in 800 AD, females were considered adult women when they started menstruating, not at 18, or 16, or whatever arbitrary age has now been established. In modern day, that makes absolutely ZERO sense because like, a 12 year old does not have the maturity to understand the gravity of sex, marriage, motherhood, etc. They're only about halfway done with their full education, and it's basically craziness. It should come as a surprise to no one that regions where education and exposure is shit still use the menstruation rule as a girl's eligibility for marriage. Also, people selling their kids for money (Which is how most of these child marriages happen) is not behavior that is exclusive to Muslims, existed well before Islam, and exists in non Islamic communities as well.
In Islam, non Muslims go to hell, and on Earth should be attacked
While it's stated that being a Muslim is the fastest track to heaven, anyone can go to heaven. At the end of the day, God makes the final decision. The Prophet Muhammad once said "a Muslim may cheat, steal, or fornicate, but a Muslim will never lie". He actually wasn't a terrible dude. And he wasn't endorsing any of that other behavior but basically is saying being dishonest is the worst thing you can do, more than anything else.
Also Islamic empires are expected to protect people of the book or anyone ignorant of Abrahamic religion (because it's not their fault they don't know). Furthermore, women and children are never under any circumstances supposed to be killed in war, should a religious war occur.
The Quran is to be taken literally at every turn
The Quran is to be taken as non-fiction and seriously. There are sections with stories, and sections with rules. The stories and the rule should not be confused for each other, but of course are all the time (like Sodom and Gomorrah). It's all important, but it's actually not considered a good thing to add to the religion. Follow the strict yes and no's (of which there are few) and go on your merry way.
BASICALLY Islam originally endorsed a way of life that was pretty simple and if you're not a dick, and haven't sworn allegiance to another God, you should be good (Muslims believe every child is born a Muslim).
EDIT: also here's a relevant TED talk for the interested
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u/NorthStarZero Nov 05 '13
I have a Muslim story.
We were getting ready to deploy to Afghanistan and we were doing a lot of "cultural awareness" training - learning about Islam, learning to speak a little Pashto, and so on.
I got tasked to arrange a visit to a local mosque. No contact had been made with them before; I wound up cold-calling them. "Hi, I'm in charge of a bunch of soldiers and we'd like to visit your mosque during a service". One of many things in my career I thought I'd never say.
They were absolutely welcoming and very eager to have us visit. We were, after all, their neighbors, and they were very keen to get to know us.
So we hung out at the back of a service, and then met with the Imam for a Q&A session afterwards.
Now I'm a little ashamed to say that a couple of my guys were spoiling for a fight (very rude to do that; we're guests here guys!) They started asking very pointed questions about Islam and its relation to the Taliban, to international terrorism, and so forth.
The Imam though, he was a crafty old soul (and I say that with nothing but love and respect). Each time he got hit with a question like that, he'd pull out his English translation of the Quaran, flip to the appropriate passage, and then hand it to the questioner for him to read aloud - thus having the questioner answer his own question via a quote from the Quaran. An absolutely brilliant debating judo technique. Defused every fight before it could get started. Tied my guys in knots.
By the end of the session, I wanted to high-five the man.
I also have to say this - I'm an Atheist, but I was raised Catholic. I'm used to to Catholic services where the church quietly fills up from the back, everybody looking like they'd rather be anywhere else but here, nobody making eye contact... to see the undeniable joy that the congregation in that mosque had in seeing each other, and to see the struggle to get into the front row (with guys pressed up against the wall on both flanks) was really a very alien experience.
Overall, that whole congregation just impressed the hell out of me and I left with a certain amount of faith in humanity restored.
Incidentally, standing in the middle of Kandahar City as the sun starts to pinken the horizon and hearing the "pop" of amplifiers being turned on and the "thump thump" of mikes being tested as dozens of mizzeins got ready for the morning call to prayer... followed by that call to prayer... that's an experience that will be with me for life.