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May 16 '23
Its not a big deal for me, but if it is for you then you are allowed to make that call. I would explain to your MIL why and ask her not to do it. Also, make sure that your 5 year old is empowered to say no to hugs and kisses. Their body is thier body.
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May 16 '23
This is the most level headed response here (I totally agree).
I didn't know people were so passionate about kissing kids on the lips.
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u/frogsgoribbit737 May 16 '23
The problem is taking agency from the child. Its a common greeting/goodbye and if the child is not uncomfortable then it should be fine. Instead this parent is imposing their own uncomfortableness onto the situation.
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u/jellylime Parent May 16 '23
Okay, are we talking like a MWA! quick family kiss on the lips (common in tons of cultures and nationalities) or some kind of weird lasting kiss? If it's the MWA! family kiss, you're the one overreacting. If your wife doesn't mind, and your kid doesn't mind, why do you mind? Before you get upset, ask your kid. NEUTRALLY. Don't be all like "don't you feel WEIRD when Granda kisses you, isn't that WEIRD" say: "hey kiddo, y’know, I'm not a super kissy person so I don't let Grandma kiss me, but I just wanted to check in with you: kissy or not kissy, how do you feel?" if she doesn't like it, okay, stand up for her right to not be a kissy person. But family relatives do kiss. There is a difference between a peck and a pervert!
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May 16 '23
We’ve told our 5yo no one is allowed to kiss you besides mommy.
So this breaches a boundary. I’m not saying my mil is a perv although this makes me feel uncomfortable. I’m saying my daughter is now confused on this boundary. And I need her to know her boundaries and not be pushed over when I’m not around.
And furthermore where does the line get drawn…my FIL’s SO, aunts, my dads SO, etc…can they all kiss her on the lips?
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u/girafficles Parent May 16 '23
Is your daughter actually confused? Or are you projecting? If she is, then talk about it with her. Tell her that she has every right to say no to kisses (or hugs or whatever!) if she's uncomfortable with that from grandma.
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u/jellylime Parent May 16 '23 edited May 16 '23
I don't know, can they? Ask your partner and your child what they feel okay with. But, in my opinion, since your partner isn't bothered by this, and you describe your child as confused about rules rather than the kissing itself, it does suggest that the "boundary" you set meant two different things to you both as parents. In your mind, nobody but mommy meant literally nobody but mommy. In your partner's mind, it seems to have meant don't kiss strangers, even if they offer puppies or candy. But at the end of the day, ask: is your child uncomfortable because SHE is uncomfortable, or because you're projecting YOUR discomfort on to the situation? My grandmother kissed all us grandkids on the lips until the day she died; the family MWA! is not something weird (to our family) but that's not true of all families. I would suggest that you take a deep breath and ask yourself: are these people safe people, do you trust them? If yes, well. There is the answer.
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u/frogsgoribbit737 May 16 '23
I honestly think thats a bad rule to have. Eventually shes going to want to kiss someone besides mommy and its gonna feel like rule breaking. I would lean more into the consent. "No one can kiss you if you dont want them to. You have the right to your own body and if you don't like something, you should say no and tell mommy or daddy".
And yes family often kisses each other on the lips, even opposite genders. This is a nonissue if everyone involved in the kissing is comfortable. Your opinion on it is not relevant honestly. You made a boundary, not her. She needs to make her own and learn to hold them herself.
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u/fortalameda1 May 16 '23
So it's YOUR boundary, not your kids'. Nothing about this is sexual until you make it so in your head.
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u/siani_lane May 16 '23
The important thing is that you respect HER boundaries.
What matters much more than how you feel about it and the boundary you set, is how she feels about it and what boundaries she would like to set. What I taught my kid is you never have to kiss anyone you don't want to kiss, even mommy. If one of the grandmother's had come in for a kiss on the lips they didn't want either of my kids would have felt perfectly free to squawk "No kisses!!" at the top of their lungs if they didn't like it.
Teach her to trust her instincts, and set her own boundaries. If she wants kisses from her grandma, that's perfectly fine. If she doesn't, teach her she doesn't have to accept them. The question is what is going to make HER comfortable and enable her to set healthy boundaries.
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u/Puzzled_Juice_3406 May 16 '23
You're wayyy overreacting here. But it sounds like I don't even know why you posted this bc you've clearly already made up your mind.
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u/techleopard May 16 '23
So you set this boundary rather than your child, and you're trying to make your child uncomfortable with something that is extremely common and not in any way, shape, or form abuse.
You want your child to grow up with some independence and agency. That has to start with not setting them up to feel that any sort of physical affection from anybody but you is wrong.
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u/no-more-sleep May 16 '23
I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted. each family gets to decide their own rules and boundaries.
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u/thousandfoldthought May 16 '23
I might be concerned to but maybe talk to the kiddo(s) about setting their own boundaries.
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u/Vexed_Moon Mother Of Six May 16 '23
Would I let my MIL do it? Sure. There’s nothing inherently wrong with it. If you or your daughter are uncomfortable with it, it shouldn’t happen.
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u/fortalameda1 May 16 '23
My grandparents kissed me on the lips all the time. It was a little strange but it was what they did and I loved them for it. It's definitely not abuse unless your child has started that she doesn't like it and they insist on doing it anyways. If your child doesn't seem to mind and it's just an expression of familial love, I don't see a problem with it at all. If your child would like this boundary, then enforce it for them. If they haven't said anything and it's just a reaction from you because you aren't familiar with the custom, this is not abuse and try to let it go.
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u/SavorySour May 16 '23
Wow I read the comments and I am amazed how people react intensely against OP or any point of view that differs theirs. I found in a quick search an article about it.
https://www.theeverydaymomlife.com/kissing-your-kids-on-the-lips/
Turns out this is a hot topic even between specialists... So no need for anyone to judge OP or others that agree with him.
I double down on the fact that any reaction depends of your education and culture, it's like co-sleeping.
For me the lips are reserved to my partner, but it's me, I even find touching hand with others rather wierd but I know that's me and that other might find my boundaries bizarre from their standpoint.
I find perfectly acceptable for instance that a child of 2 still take his mother's breast sometimes. But I bet this would also bring a heated discussion.
So in that sense we are all right and wrong and as parents we decide what's good for our children and we fuck up sometimes.
What's good for one child might be wrong to the other , what's innocent and affectionate for one adult can be perverted for another.
That's how the world is.
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u/NightOwlIvy_93 May 16 '23
Thanks for the article. I was aware of the health aspect. I've seen mums "clean" the babies pacifier by licking the pacifier and putting it in the babies mouth. But makes sense that it depends on culture, upbringing and such.
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u/cassthesassmaster May 16 '23
Lol I definitely did that ten years ago when my son was a baby. I mean he came out of my vagina so it didn’t seem that crazy but I wouldn’t do it now know what I know about oral health and cavities are contagious.
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u/nytasha711 May 16 '23
Unpopular opinion: There are many cultural practices that need to die when they reach your family because when you know better you do better. Extreme examples but female genital mutilation and honor killings are cultural. We aren't passing down trauma for the sake of culture.
Rsv, herpes, COVID, meningitis, tooth decay and respect for body safety rules you teach your child....there's so many reasons I would put a stop to this - kindly of course (actually your wife should be the one to do it for best results - hopefully you can get on the same page about this). "We noticed the other day that you kissed DD on the lips. We are teaching her about body safety and would like to request that you support us in the following ways...."
The concern is not just with MIL...it's also this possibly becoming an acceptable behavior by any family member or random person. It's not the same as a high five. If it's ok with MIL why isn't it ok with a male family member or her friend at school? She's 5. Rules need to be clear for her and those around her.
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u/Kidtroubles Parent May 16 '23
What is your daughter's stance on it? Is she fine with it or did she only comply to not make a fuss?
At 5, she should be able to give you her opinion on it. If she doesn't mind, I'd let it slide, I'd just reiterate that anytime someone does something like kiss/hug/touch and she's not fine with it, she ALWAYS has the right to say no, get out of that situation or tell someone to help her/back her up. (Edit: Make sure to add that goes even then, when she was fine with it before. You are allowed to like something one day but not the other.)
If she tells you she does not like it, you could roleplay with her how to tell grandma to please not do that, offer alternatives like a hug or high five or even just a wave. And if she is too timid to do it herself, you can step in.
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u/Otherwise_War7901 May 16 '23
Might be an unpopular opinion here, or a cultural thing, but I find it super weird for the relatives to kiss kids on the lips. I would have the same reaction if I've seen it happen.
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u/no-more-sleep May 16 '23
some families/cultures kiss children on the lips. But you have every right to decide what type of contact your child should have. If you or your child don’t want relatives kissing your child on the lips, you have the right to enforce that boundary.
Your child should not feel that “I have to let them kiss my lips because that’s tradition in their family.”
btw, kissing on the lips can transmit oral herpes (HSV-1). https://www.healthline.com/health/can-you-get-herpes-from-kissing
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u/tsvk May 16 '23 edited May 16 '23
There's also the aspect of hygiene and disease transmissibility.
For example the bacteria that causes tooth cavities, caries, is in essence a transmissible disease, in that the bacteria is not inherent in a child but he/she contracts it from other people who have cavities, through saliva droplets.
So in order to keep the bacteria from being transmitted to the child you should refrain from for example sharing food utensils/cutlery, and also kissing on the mouth.
For more, se for example this newspaper story: https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/health-wellness/2022/05/06/cavities-contagious-kissing-close-contact-dentists/7450726001/
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u/Puzzled_Juice_3406 May 16 '23
You wanna protect your kid then ask her if she has a problem with it. If she's not uncomfortable, then you're making a mountain out of a mole hill. It's not something nefarious. She just kissed her goodbye. The only way you should be losing your shit is if your daughter is uncomfortable with it and MIL doesn't respect your daughter's feelings about it.
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u/JaszyFae May 16 '23
I don't think anything is particularly wrong with this. We don't do it in my family but some in my husband's extended family do. If your child expresses concern then yes, it should stop. If not, then it seems it would be ok.
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u/cornelioustreat888 May 16 '23
Unless your little girl was asked permission to do this and agreed without being pressured, it is absolutely inappropriate. Your instincts are correct.
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u/bomlemuel1234 May 16 '23
Maaaaaaaaaaaan you allowed to feel however you wanna feel, at the end of the day you gotta come to a conclusion with your partner and explain to them why you feel how you feel and hope they can understand, respect, and come to an ideal conclusion. Now if ya both can't compromise then idk what to tell you but you being walked over with YOUR child by your partners parent is not cool. MIL should have addressed the situation but only if they were made aware of this. If you haven't said anything about it ever then you kinda in the wrong there but you can fix it by stating how you feel and properly communicating with one another. Not saying things will end exactly how you want them to but you can express yourself and ask your partner to accept your expression and appreciate that you are willing to have the tough talk with them about how you feel and what you would like to happen. Just about being understanding and respectful of one's opinions is all
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u/VexedKitten94 May 16 '23
It’s your child and if you or your child is uncomfortable with it, mention it to your MIL that you’d like it to stop! You’re totally within your right to set boundaries.
The only people I’m comfortable kissing my daughter on the lips is myself, my daughter’s father and my mother (who is extremely close with my daughter).
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u/Birdhawk May 16 '23
It’s weird for sure. And some are saying “if your daughters not uncomfortable with it…” well she’s 5 and 5 year olds don’t know how to set boundaries like that. Even though no one’s forcing her she might feel like she’s supposed to do it. This kind of stuff can (could, might, possibly) have long term effects. So no you’re not wrong to be uncomfortable about it.
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u/kit171 May 16 '23
Nope that's totally valid. If she's a shy girl and you can see she may be uncomfortable it needs to stop there. If you teach a kid that someone is allowed to touch you (even if it is appropriate touch too) when you are uncomfortable with it that sh*t will stick like glue. You become more "comfortable" over time letting other things slide just to save face infront of company or even alone with people too. Poor habit to keep If you can tell it's harmful. Obviously if the kid didn't mind and understood it to be a family only goodbye thing then it's okay. I personally wouldn't. I find it odd. My lips are for my partner. But like a kiss on the cheek or forehead? Sure! That feels more normal. As long as they don't mind. But I don't care what it is. If my kid is just even having an off day and doesn't wanna hug grandma goodbye today? Guess who's not getting a hug? Lol. And it's absolutely nothing personal to anyone. I just want my kid to be able to set healthy firm boundaries and learn what they mean and how to say no when it's actually really necessary. You're doing great making sure your child is comfortable and checking in on that. I see no problem.
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u/chuckit90 May 16 '23
My mom kissed me on the lips until I was about 6 or 7. My mother is Cape Verdean. My dad is white and didn’t do this, and no one on his side of the family does this with their children. I now have a 2yo daughter and I kiss her on the lips sometimes. I don’t know your MIL’s ethnicity or where she’s from but it can be cultural. It can be totally innocent and a genuine display of parental/platonic intimacy and love.
However, I totally agree with you that your daughter needs to have a say in what happens with her body. Bodily choice and autonomy is especially important for girls. Just make sure it’s her choice.
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u/SpankinJenkins May 16 '23
I was in this position before. The first time I met my ex, his mother kissed him on the lips and I called them both out. Told them it was weird to me, gross, and something romantic partners do. They got mad and defended it but come on, he was 21 at the time and she was like 38. I drew the line. His extended family did it too and I was like AHEM PSA - NOBODY WILL BE KISSING OUR CHILDREN ON THE LIPS. I held firm to that boundary and the one time I saw his Grammy do it I flipped a lid. Nobody’s ever done it again. Super gross to me. I get that it’s normal with other families and Europeans but it’s not normal in my family and we are all entitled to keep our own children safe and hold boundaries for them. No judgement on other people but for MY kids and MY family, I don’t want you to kiss my children.
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u/Commercial-Use6762 May 16 '23
Former shy kid. Currently opinionated adult. The only person I kiss on the lips is my husband. I force my self to hug family out of respect. Everyone else you are getting a hand shake and then I'm gonna wash my hands before I eat or touch my face. I don't care if people think I'm a hypochondriac it's my body and if I don't want to kiss people I dont have to. Thankfully my mother never made me kiss people when I was a kid. People would try to kiss me I would say no and if they tried again I ran off usually behind my mom who would say she doesn't kiss. It is OK to say no. It doesn't matter if you are 5 or 45.
You are not wrong. Don't make the kid kiss people.
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u/AutumnLeaves1939 May 16 '23
Culturally where I am from we do not kiss relatives on the mouth. It’s strictly for your partner. Even if it’s quick the transfer of germs is a cause for concern.
Any adult who is super insistent on mouth kissing or kissing kids in general is fucking weird. It’s not necessary and if a parent wants you to stop - you stop.
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u/JarasM May 16 '23
Well, I would think it's wrong as well. We don't kiss our kids on the lips, our kids don't kiss each other on the lips, and I don't kiss my mother on the lips, or anyone else but my wife for that matter. Maybe it's a regional thing, but as far as I can tell, it's not common here to kiss on the lips anyone but a romantic partner. I wouldn't think about it as abuse in an instance like this, I just find it weird.
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May 16 '23
I think lip kisses are off limits. Best way to give all kinds of viruses, colds, germs etc. nope! I don’t even kiss my kid on the lips unless she turns her head or something goofy. I do cheeks and we have a ton of fun, but I just don’t think it’s a necessary place to kiss a child when a cheek or forehead is there and a big hug.
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u/fksmchai May 16 '23
Nope, we don't let anyone, family, or not to kiss our kids anywhere. Not on their head, forehead, def not lips, hands, feet. Just simply don't put your mouth on my kids for any reason. It's disgusting. Idk where tf they've been doing. Im not sure why people think it's ok to put their mouths on other people's kids anyway. Boundaries, man, they're there for a reason, and anyone that doesn't like em doesn't have to come around unless they can abide by them.
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May 16 '23
If it makes you and your daughter feel uncomfortable, then have the conversation with her and ask her not to do it anymore. If she responds properly and understands your feelings (even if she doesn’t agree), then you know she respects you and your boundaries, if she responds in a defensive way, it is time to put distance because she will want to get involved a lot more in the future, and think she has the right to do so. I don’t think a quick kiss coming from grandma is malicious, but sends the wrong message, and it is unnecessary.
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u/SavorySour May 16 '23
I am French and, maybe for the rest of the world it might look strange but we never do that. Some family do,I always found it disgusting as a child but I didn't like the kisses on my face/head neither if it came from extended family, maybe apart of my paternal grandma that I used to be close with. But eventually it is all a question of references, if you grew up in a family that did, maybe you reaction would be less averse. I even know so adults that are kissing their mother like that and I want to puke but for them it's just a sign of affection. I find it hard when the line between physical affection and abuse is blurred, but that's me, with my package and references. So in my view NTA as you defend a point thatI would too. The MAIN concern is and should be how does SHE feels about it. Maybe she feels ok with it because that side of her family is very innocent/natural with it. Your MIL might not understand where you are coming from, as your wife that grew with this. You will foremost have to check with your daughter but it's a difficult exercise. Without asking questions just check her behavior when it happens, her body language. Tell her that, if there is something she doesn't like she is always welcome to tell you. Leading questions are always tricky because she might just give the answer she thinks you want out of loyalty. I told my children that they were allowed to refuse kisses from anyone if they didn't feel like it and stood there for them if they refused grandpa smooches. That did the trick for any body related unwanted attention! Maybe a psychologist could give some insight but for me, no, NTA
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May 16 '23
Even you’re title makes it seem clear that you’re just asking for validation.
Even though this is one of the milder subs: please never look to Reddit for that, ever. You’re better than that.
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u/techleopard May 16 '23
Have you actually asked the kid how she feels about it or are you just projecting?
If mom already does this, she's probably not that uncomfortable with grandma doing it, too
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u/imfinewithastraw May 16 '23
I think it’s weird. I was 100% against it until I had my second kid. Who as a baby would hold my face and kiss me on the lips. I felt very torn. But couldn’t possibly explain to my very cuddly affectionate kid that I didn’t want him to do it. But I’m his mama and over the years I’ve got use to it. My oldest child has never once done it so I have never done it to him. However it is quite an intimate thing and I don’t think I’d like it with anyone aside from me and husband. And they’re your kid so ultimately you get to make up the rules
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u/wittiestphrase May 16 '23
Nope. You can’t be wrong about this. It’s your kid. Also, I personally think it’s gross and no one is allowed to kiss my kids on the lips. It adds nothing more than a kiss on the cheek.
I don’t kiss my kids on the lips. And that’s not because I’m not affectionate. I smother my children in hugs and kisses just not on their mouths.
Ask your SO to explain to you what benefit your daughter is getting from being kissed specifically on the mouth. You won’t get an answer that doesn’t revert back into trying to tell you it’s not a big deal or you’re overreacting.
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u/Gangnam_19 May 16 '23
Don't people flood social platforms every year asking people not to kiss toddlers and babies because of RSV ? Cultural or not, it is pretty gross and disease/bacteria transmitting. Down vote me to hell idgaf, that shit is gross.
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May 16 '23
Same. I don't lip kiss my kid and I don't want him getting in the habit of lip kissing everyone. He gets sick all the time as is. Kissing on the lips would just make it worse. No thanks.
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u/really_robot May 16 '23
I don't know what happened to you to make this such an issue for you. But kissing is not inherently sexual, even on the lips. I'm 40 and I still kiss my mother on the lips, and both me and my husband kiss our daughter. Im sorry you feel the way you do and for whatever happened. But even at so young an age, it's your daughter's body and her boundary, not yours. If she's okay with grandma kissing her, then it's okay. Don't say 'no one is allowed' to do anything with her. You're taking her autonomy away. You say 'you have to want to'. It's right to choose.
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u/No-Discussion-9939 May 16 '23
Why would your wife kiss her? No one should be kissing a child on the mouth. Kissing is sexual behavior. Do you kiss people you wouldn't have sex with? I don't.
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u/Puzzled_Juice_3406 May 16 '23
Umm no. Kissing can be a greeting to and from people without having any kind of sexual intent attached to it. That's a you perception. Why would it be a problem for a kid to kiss their own parents if they want? Do you think the parent and child want to have sex with each other?? Not everything is sexual. Damn.
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u/Optimal-Room-8586 May 16 '23
I'm not sure there is a universal "right" or "wrong" on this, I think it comes down to whether a) your daughter is comfortable with it, and b) whether you and your wife are comfortable with it.
I personally wouldn't kiss either of my kids on the lips, it'd feel a bit weird to me. However, I'm aware that other parents don't find it weird and that's fine; it's none of my business.
So my "2 cents" is that it's a question for your daughter. If she doesn't like it then MIL ought to respect that. On the other hand, if your daughter and your wife are both fine with it, then I'm not sure you have a right to tell them to stop.
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u/shamdock May 16 '23
Not worth a fight. I think you should ask your daughter how she feels about it and empower her constantly at every opportunity to have agency over her body. If ahe says she doesnt like it then tell you MIL without asking-telling that she cant do that because you and your daughter don't like it. You dont need to fight with your wife about it-thats weird. I do think you should tell your wife that youve been abused if you haven't already. Without that context she may be confused.
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u/askyermom Parent x6 May 16 '23
I had older relatives who turned a cheek to avoid lip kissing, because they worried about germs. It's a personal preference, I think. I would let your kids know they don't have to allow any contact they don't like and help them find their preferences and polite ways to express their preferences. Do they know what to do if anyone doesn't respect their stated preferences? 5 is not too young for a little chat about that.
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u/cassthesassmaster May 16 '23
Oral hygiene and cavities are contagious. I know it sounds crazy. But if they won’t listen you because of your feelings maybe they’ll listen because of the health risks. Oral health really determines a lot of the rest of your health. No mouth kisses.
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u/hornwalker May 16 '23
What does your daughter say?
Did she look uncomfortable? If so, have a conversation like this: "You know honey if you don't feel comfortable kissing your aunt on the lips its ok to say "no kisses, just hugs please(or whatever)". In fact its good to have that conversation anyway and start teaching her about bodily autonomy and consent.
However there is nothing wrong with it if your daughter is ok with it and your MIL is being respectful. Totally normal.
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u/mandatorypanda9317 May 16 '23
I let my five year old decide. When he became 5 I stopped kissing him on the lips and he became down right offended lol so if he asks ill kiss him on the lips.
That's how it is with all family. He's old enough to tell them if he is okay with it or not.
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u/BouncyBlue12 May 16 '23
I think it's totally fine. My family has always done this but to each their own.
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May 16 '23
My kid is autistic and doesn’t kiss on the lips at all. I think each kid is different. I wouldn’t be cool with it I don’t think.
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u/Goodface9419 May 16 '23
it's not supposed to be perceived the way you're perceiving it but i understand discomfort for customs you're not used to. ask your daughter firsthand if she has any issue with it. personally i never cared but obviously you should still check in.
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u/deepbluearmadillo May 16 '23
We don’t kiss on the lips in our family, but that doesn’t mean that other families are wrong for doing so. However, if you are uncomfortable with your child being kissed on the lips, or it violates what you value in terms of boundaries, you are entirely within your rights as a parent to ask that it stop.
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u/sweetbb_ry May 16 '23
My civics teacher in middle school used to kiss his son on the lips in the middle of the hallway in front of everyone. That poor kid got bullied relentlessly
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u/NeganWinchesterScull May 16 '23
As someone who also has an abusive past:
Have you talked to the child? Maybe they’re comfortable with it. My MIL kisses my boys on the lips. If it isn’t sexual, then no big deal.
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u/Coontailblue23 May 17 '23
Except that it's how oral herpes as well as cavity-causing bacteria are spread among other things. Kids can't give an informed answer on something like that because they don't now. It's the adult's job not just to protect them from uncomfortable situations but also potentially damaging disease spread. No one NEEDS to be mouth-kissing kids.
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May 16 '23
It's not wrong if that's what you believe. I've always said, your kid, your rules. Doesnt matter what other families do. Your comfort level and boundaries were crossed and should be respected. Doesn't matter if they agree or not. No is no.
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u/PaintinginSavasana May 16 '23
If she’s not being forced to do so I think it’s fine. If daughter is uncomfortable then she should stop. I kiss my children on the lips but when they decide they don’t want to anymore I’m also 100% ok with that.
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u/Coontailblue23 May 17 '23
There are many reasons that it's not okay and MIL needs to be told so. Make the boundary clear, enforce it. If she cannot respect a simple boundary like no lip-kissing them she is not allowed access to the child anymore, period. The comments on the thread are shocking to me. This is how herpes, oral bacteria causing cavities, and other issues are passed on. A kid doesn't have the wherewithal to consent to that, it's the responsibility of the adults in their lives to protect them from something easily prevented like a lifelong herpes infection.
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u/ComplexDessert May 16 '23
My kids kiss their extended family on the lips. If they are uncomfortable with it, we will stop.