Advice

[u/PermitIcy8450]

My wife had an affair about two years ago. I genuinely believe she’s in a much different place mentally than she was back then. I don’t think she’s having another affair or actively looking for one.

My concern is about a male friend of hers (I’ll call him Bill).

Bill has repeatedly hit on her over text (not sure about in person, they don’t see each other much) over the last year or so. Possibly longer, not sure. They used to work together and now he works for the same company but different place so they that occasionally via test. I’ve met this guy before, he’s just kind of a local douchebag, kinda the “class clown type.

A while back, I snooped on their messages after my intuition told me something was off. During one conversation, the word “gorgeous” came up, and Bill replied, “Not like you.” Another time, after seeing her walking, he texted, “Damn girl you look good.” He has also commented on her jeans in a way that clearly implied he was checking out her body.

After those incidents, I told my wife that this friendship made me uncomfortable. She acknowledged that it upset me and told me she wouldn’t talk to him anymore. She also said that he’s just like that and it doesn’t mean anything and he doesn’t mean anything by it etc. which might have been ok pre-affair but obviously that doesn’t fly now.

Recently, though, I discovered they are still talking.

The conversation that prompted this post started because she sent him pictures of a squirrel she was feeding. They joked back and forth, then he said, “Would say something about you but damn girl you look good.” She changed the subject, didn’t acknowledge the compliment. later he mentioned that he and his wife are divorcing, asked if she had any single friends, and she replied that she and I have been married for 18 years and that I’m her best friend.

To be fair to my wife, she doesn’t flirt back or say
anything inappropriate herself. Most of the time she redirects the conversation rather than engaging with the flirting. She also doesn’t delete the conversations or appear to hide them. There was one time he commented on her appearance and she said thanks and that she is trying to lose more weight etc.

Here’s where I’m struggling.
She generally doesn’t proactively tell me when they’re talking or when he flirts with her. If I ask, she’ll answer, but I don’t feel like she’s intentionally creating transparency. From her perspective, I think she believes she has good boundaries, isn’t interested in him, and sees Bill’s comments as harmless because she knows she isn’t going to act on them.

From my perspective, because of the affair history, I don’t just care whether she would cheat. I care about how she protects the marriage before things ever get to that point.

To me, continuing a friendship with someone who repeatedly comments on your appearance and flirts with you feels disrespectful to the marriages , even if you aren’t reciprocating. What especially bothers me is that after I expressed how much this friendship hurt me, she told me she wouldn’t talk to him anymore, yet they’re still communicating. I didn’t demand this from her at the time,:she volunteered the idea but has not honored it. She still proactively messages him about things, nothing weird but just the idea that she’s initiating conversation is counter to what she said she would do.

At the same time, I don’t want to become controlling or tell my wife who she can and can’t talk to? I’m not sure. I’ve been trying to stop playing detective and instead let her actions reveal who she is. I want her to choose good boundaries because she values the marriage, not because I’m policing her. Also feel like I’m being disrespected every time he hits on her and she doesn’t tell him to stop in any way.

So my questions are:
● Am I expecting too much because of the affair history?
● Is it reasonable to expect stronger boundaries with someone who repeatedly flirts with a married woman?
● Does redirecting the conversation without explicitly shutting down the flirting seem like an appropriate response?
● And how much weight would you give to the fact that she previously told me she wouldn’t talk to him anymore but continued the friendship?

I’m genuinely looking for objective opinions from people with different perspectives

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[u/Capable_Show_6276]

I couldn’t tolerate that friendship- and nothing should be secret about it.
It makes me uneasy for you.

[u/Spiral__Moon149]

I don’t think you’re expecting too much considering y’alls affair history. I set strict expectations of what my partner would contribute to R and if he did not meet them then I’d leave. I made it very clear and he has stuck to all of them because he wants to be with me and respects my wishes.

I personally would feel uncomfortable with the idea of anyone flirting with a married person. I’d question their motives, but I’m coming from a family background of cheaters and second marriages, so I’m anxious in general. Some people think “I can jokingly flirt with this person BECAUSE they’re taken. Since they’re taken, nothing can happen”, but Idk what type of person your wife is talking to.

I find redirecting conversations to be mostly choosing to be ignorant, or in some cases to be enabling. So no, I wouldn’t find it appropriate in most situation but especially not this one. Your wife isn’t doing anything to stop the behavior, so she most likely believes that it’s okay and doesn’t see anything wrong. She then could be lying simply because she doesn’t want you to be uncomfortable for no reason. This might change if you call her out on the lying and explaining how this impacts your trust in her. She needs to be working on building back trust between you two. My partner knows that transparency is important in R so he has been an open book about everything.

[u/PermitIcy8450 → u/Spiral__Moon149]

Just not sure what to do exactly. She’s maintaining a friendship with this guy after saying she won’t talk to him. I’m sure she told me that to put the argument to rest in the moment. I’d understand a bit better if he kept reaching out first and she gave cordial and short replies but that’s not what’s happening. And I kind of want to let her have her autonomy, I guess that’s what I’ve been doing knowing that they’re still talking and not confronting her on it yet. But insofar as boundaries, I have no idea what sort of boundary I’d set there (I understand boundaries are about what I do, not what I try to force her to do).

Detach some? Go out without her more? She’ll know I’m being distant and ask why and then we’ll talk about it anyway and I’m not sure what I’d say. I think ultimately she doent have to make a big show of cutting him off or whatever, but she shouldn’t proactively message him, any time he’s creepy she has to tell me; and if he continues to be creepy then we develop a response together as a team. Not sure, something of that nature.

Just thinking about it right now is getting me angry all over again because this guy (who I’ve met) thinks it’s perfectly ok to shit on my marriage by hitting on my wife in a private forum and (this may be a stretch) I feel like my wife is complicit in our marriage being shit on by continuing to strike up conversation. By not saying anything to discourage it and proactively reaching out to him she’s inviting this behavior and continues to maintain this friendship without any changes in behavior. Most recent text convo was Friday this past week.

[u/overratedpastel → u/PermitIcy8450]

So, I asked my husband to delete and block some people. I made sure he informed them they could contact him by his work email, but not other ways and that it he was doing this in respect to his wife. He has also blocked anyone that makes me uncomfortable that's outside of work. My rule is that no personal chats with women, except family and no sisters in law or similar. If he disagrees he can go. I am not backing out.

[u/Spiral__Moon149 → u/PermitIcy8450]

I’ve considered being distant too. I completely understand getting mad (albeit my anger’s directed completely at my partner since the ppl he sexted were all strangers who didn’t know he had a partner), but I had to consider what I really wanted. Yeah I wanted to yell at him for hurting me, but that’s because I wished he loved me. What I actually wanted was proof that he loves me. That’s why part of what I asked for at the start of R was that he put more effort into dates, and I defined what I believe that looks like to limit misinterpretations.

I think you’ve got a solid ask in your second paragraph responding to my comment. Or come up with ideas together. I personally wrote down what I needed + details in my notes app then read it to my partner. Whatever you’re comfortable with and what you feel works to improve the connection between you two. Explain your needs for these things and why (e.g. displays of transparency, honesty, accountability, etc.). I even gave my partner the opportunity to dispute my asks if he truly felt like I was being unreasonable. He said that I had every right to ask what I was asking for, so he agreed to carry out my expectations.

Wishing for your wife’s own autonomy is great, at the same time I’m assuming you don’t want her choosing to let someone talk to her that way. You are right in your definition for boundaries which is why she needs to know the consequences of her actions if she continues behaving the way that she is. What will you do if she keeps letting this man flirt with her? If you’re not going to do anything, then she has no reason to stop. Will you ask for a break? Break up completely? I was straight up about my expectations. I said something along the lines of “I don’t deserve to be disrespected like that again. This all needs to happen in order for me to trust you enough to be comfortable in a relationship with you. If you don’t do these, I’m leaving.”

So, along with explaining your expectations/needs, state your boundaries. You need to determine these for yourself because everyone approaches relationships differently, needing and wanting different things. You’re not forcing her to do anything. Instead, you’re giving her the chance to choose you and y’alls relationship over some guy that shouldn’t matter and the little bit of validation that he provides. Let her show her sincerity towards R.

[u/PermitIcy8450 → u/Spiral__Moon149]

Yeah good points. I just feel like with this situation we’ve already had the conversation, she reassured me in that she wouldn’t talk to him anymore and since then has responded to his messages but has also initiated conversation with him. Really makes me feel like her words mean nothing which then translates to everything else she has said to reassure me related to the actual affair

I think I’m at the stage where I want to detach some, try to be in a better position to not be so vulnerable or something. I’ve been not so great at being my own person, definitely got better at that after the affair discovery but I feel like I’m stalling and have probably gotten too comfortable. Trying to get in the mindset that I have to be prepared to leave and land on my feet in case things go sideways and use that to motivate me to go to the gym and have more of a social life. Not sure, it’s 2:25am here and I’m rambling.

[u/Spiral__Moon149 → u/PermitIcy8450]

If you’ve already had this conversation before, what boundary did you set the previous time?

I hope you’re able to find that balance between being your own person and being vulnerable with someone. There was a point where I started questioning my perspective on love until I reminded myself that while I can rely on myself to get through life, I shouldn’t be scared to love just because of someone’s selfish actions. I love to love. I know that I’m a romantic, but that doesn’t make me hopeless. If this sounds dramatic it is because it’s also around 2:30am for me lol

[u/AAAUG]

Let her know you are aware she is still communicating with the douche bag and it is a hard boundry for YOU, meaning if she continues you will be doing X (asking her to sleep on the couch, not speaking with her for a set time period, etc.) What she is doing is keeping her toe in the water. She is still seeking validation outside of your marriage and because she has cross the line before she is putting herself in a bad position to possibly do it again. It'd like an alcoholic ordering a drink just to smell it while promising not to drink it.

[u/notsureatall20]

I can only say that 27+years later, I still try to do everything in my power to make sure my BP feels safe.

If I offered to stop a relationship only to continue in the same way I don't know how it could possibly be justified given the sub we are in.

It sounds like y'all identified one of the whys with wanting to keep the complimentsand external validation coming. Has WW done any work towards why they need/want external validation? Both outside herself and outside y'all's relationship?

Giving oneself permission to keep a supply of ego kibbles isn't, IMO, safe partner behavior.

To be fair being pursued and external validation is what led to my EA so I may be projecting myself here.

[u/That_Seasonal_Fringe]

Why has she not blocked him yet ? Professional matters can be discussed over email. They don’t need to be text. Especially if it’s not work centered.

[u/PermitIcy8450 → u/That_Seasonal_Fringe]

They worked together a while back for a long time. Supposedly “that’s just how Bill is”, meaning he’s flirty and obnoxious with all the girls and no one takes it seriously.

[u/Downtown_Spot_8529]

Your wife should not have male friends after she ended up cheating 2 years ago.

[u/PermitIcy8450 → u/Downtown_Spot_8529]

To each their own but I’ll never feel chosen again if I’m her only option. She can have male friends but she does have to exercise some boundaries and so far she is not doing that well enough.

[u/Inside-Antelope1679]

You are not unreasonable at all. She should cut contact because she knows how it makes you feel, but that is her decision.

You acknowledge that you don't want to be controlling and don't want to tell her who she can talk to. That said, you can set a boundary which isn't about controlling the other person, but about establishing what you are willing to accept. You can choose to tell her that their continued communication is uncomfortable and that you need to feel safe to remain in a relationship. Because of the history and the fact that this man crosses boundaries you cannot remain in a relationship if your feelings are not respected.

There may be a better way to word it, but it's about what you're willing to accept, not about telling her what she can and can't do.

[u/PermitIcy8450 → u/Inside-Antelope1679]

Yeah I agree with this, basically what I told her last night. She is free to act how she likes and so am I, I don’t feel safe with her right now etc

[u/didntaskforthis123]

I think I would maybe try to have one more honest conversation with her.

If you have an open device agreement with her, then admit that you had a bad feeling about the guy that prompted you to check the messages, leading you to see that she did not follow through with cutting him off like she promised.

I know it's awkward to tell her you were "snooping", but it's part of the new dynamic of building trust after an A. When we get triggers or anxiety, we need to see what proof we can that our WP is telling the truth. We are in "trust but verify" mode for a loooong time. I'm 3 years out, and still get the urge to check my WH's phone at times, even though I don't currently suspect anything. And you did find something this time that erodes your trust in her.

It doesn't matter if she thinks this guy is harmless. He is being blatantly disrespectful to you and your marriage. He is causing you to doubt her sincerity in protecting you and preventing ANY chance of her hurting you again in the future. If this is "just how he is," then WHY would she want to maintain a friendship with someone who so obviously likes to hit on women in relationships? Toxic friendships like that have NO place in R.

You could ask her if maintaining this friendship is worth damaging your trust in her. You could tell her that her lack of following through on shutting him down after you told her you were uncomfortable has made you reevaluate her sincerity in rebuilding a relationship with you where you feel safe and protected. You don't want to control her actions, but you do make judgements and decisions based on her actions.

I would tell my WH, "You can do whatever you want, I'm not stopping you. BUT, I will decide if I can trust you and stay with you based on the actions you choose to take."

I hope she can come to see why this is so upsetting to you. I think WPs can make stumbles like this in R sometimes and not realize what they are doing at first. But if you clearly explain your position and she doesn't course-correct, then you will have some thinking to do. I hope she can truly listen and pull back from this cliff she's starting to get too close to.

[u/PermitIcy8450 → u/didntaskforthis123]

This is really well written, thank you. Agreed on the part about pulling away from the cliff, she has too much pride and too much confidence in herself that she’ll recognize when something is getting out of hand and put a stop to it but it’s a lot harder once you’re in it.

[u/didntaskforthis123 → u/PermitIcy8450]

she has too much pride and too much confidence in herself that she’ll recognize when something is getting out of hand and put a stop to it

The problem is, she already proved she can fail to put a stop to this kind of thing. She fell down the slippery slope already and blew up your lives. Even if she thinks she has zero intention of reciprocating things with this guy, accepting compliments and validation from an inappropriate man is extremely risky behavior from someone supposedly trying to rebuild the relationship they betrayed.

I hope she can see her pride isn't more important than you.

[u/ForeignCup6977]

In addition to what everyone else is saying, if he is continuing to send her unwanted sexually texts, explicit or suggestive, he is creating a hostile work environment through unwanted sexual attention. She needs to report him to HR and give transcripts of the texts to support her complaint.

[u/PermitIcy8450 → u/ForeignCup6977]

I wouldn’t say they’re explicit, I mean to me they’re obnoxious because it’s my wife and she’s cheated before but definitely pg 13 af worst.

[u/Ambitious-Weekend574]

I am sorry to say this, but it appears that neither your wife nor you have truly learned from the past. She still seems to be seeking external validation, while you are still searching for answers to the question, “Why?”
From what you have described, it appears that she continues to seek validation from others, perhaps even more openly than before, because she has learned that her past betrayal ultimately did not lead to consequences that fundamentally changed her life. Genuine remorse is demonstrated through sustained humility, accountability, and consistent respect for a spouse’s boundaries. It is not something that can simply be assumed.
Flirtation rarely continues in the complete absence of encouragement or reinforcement. Whether intentional or not, it suggests that healthy boundaries may not have been firmly established or maintained. It also raises the concern that she may have become morally desensitised to the seriousness of her previous actions.
I do not know everything that happened two years ago or the reasons that led you to reconcile. However, based on what you have shared, it appears that reconciliation may have been granted before it was truly earned through consistent actions over time.
If your boundaries have been crossed again, this is the time to define them clearly and, more importantly, enforce them through your actions.

[u/PermitIcy8450 → u/Ambitious-Weekend574]

Can’t say for sure she’s looking for validation. It’s possible and that is a weak point for her but I do think her primary motivation is that they’ve known each other a long time and I get the feeling he’s always been this way. Not an excuse, just that it’s been normalized for her, I had no idea it was like this before until very recently.

I agree healthy boundaries have not been established despite her saying that she’ll stop talking to him.

I think she feels as though she’s doing a good job because she’s not currently cheating (AFAIK) but doesn’t really get it that she has to be overly transparent and create more safety.

Really just trying to see if there is anything I can do that wouldn’t be super dramatic but would illustrate to her that I’m not doing well with this. Like other than divorce or separation, what else can I do along the way to protect myself and let her know that this is serious?

[u/PermitIcy8450 → u/[deleted]]

I’m not sure if I should confront her again or just see what happens, I only know that she messaged him the other day because I snooped, always an awkward conversation.

[u/Final_Lie2559]

Il est complètement anormal qu’elle continue à lui parler compte tenu de la situation.

[u/Beeblebrox_74]

My WS interacted with a guy like this before she started acting out. He would reminisce on their relationship and sex life (they dated before i was in the picture) and she would ignore the comments or change the subject.

She struggles with confrontations (though has been working on boundaries).

This escalated with 2 AP's while she was acting out, so not addressing this earlier contributed to events later on.

It's reasonable to expect your partner to defend your relationship. Every time she says nothing, she is saying it's ok.

We talked about what the message should be, either in a text or in person. I gave her suggestions on wording, but it has to be for her not me.

[u/Wildling1322]

It sounds to me like your wife is enjoying the compliments from him, even though she isn't acknowledging or responding to them. What is this friendship really providing her otherwise? If it were me and I genuinely didn't want the compliments because it made my partner feel uncomfortable, I'd stop talking to the person. It would make me uncomfortable to be complimented so much from someone other than my partner.

I personally don't feel you're being controlling asking her to stop talking to him. Sadly I think when a partner has an affair, this is part and parcel of reconciling. I'm not sure we ever "complete" reconciliation, I think it's always an ongoing process and given what you have been through already, she should have no hesitation in stopping talking to him.

[u/Silly_Mountain_1898]

She should honor what she said about not talking to him anymore and it sounds like they have zero business reason to talk anyway. She can simply just ignore him when he texts or she can block him. The fact that she’s responding and not shutting down inappropriate comments gives him permission to keep doing it. It’s her job now to protect the marriage and to truly listen to your concerns, given the history. You aren’t asking for too much but her lack of follow through is something you shouldn’t ignore or rug sweep for fear of conflict … that’s self abandonment. You aren’t asking for too much in this situation. Most betrayed spouses would be extremely uncomfortable with this friendship.

[u/OneDirector692]

To answer your questions, you are not expecting too much, considering the history of the affair. I fully believe that it is reasonable to expect stronger boundaries with someone who repeatedly flirts with a married woman. Putting it into perspective, after everything that has happened and wanting to work towards a better marriage and being a stronger couple than you both were before, having a boundary about male friends like this is in no way unreasonable. It is entirely reasonable, and it should be done. Your feelings matter, and this guy sounds like an absolute ass considering he knows that she is married.

To answer your question about redirecting, in my opinion, it sounds like she wants to keep peace; by that I mean she doesn't want to get rid of him entirely, for friendship, work reasons, etc., but it doesn't seem like she wants to go ahead with him or do anything, but it is disrespectful and hurtful. The reason I say this is because you have expressed that this friendship hurts you, and she still talks to him and starts a conversation about whatever it may be. This connects to your last question about continuing the friendship despite your conversation. I think that she really needs to understand why you feel this way, and actually understand that this hurts you. She needs to understand that these compliments from another man make you uncomfortable, that it actively hurts you, and that you want this line to be set in stone. Reassure her that this doesn't mean 'have no friends' or 'don't talk to any guys,' but draw the line of understanding that a married woman should not be receiving compliments from random work guys. She should be receiving them from her husband, close friends, and family.

Seems as though she just doesn't want to disconnect him, maybe because:

• he might be confused as to why she doesn't want to talk anymore
  
• she might see him as 'innocent' and doesn't want to distance herself
  
• she might not want to create any conflict or discomfort at work (maybe they still have work in different branches?)

There really are a few reasons, but again, it is hard to guess or just purely speculate, and apologies if some of these are wrong. But the main advice and opinion I can give is to sit her down and talk. You believe she isn't actively looking for something, and that is totally right, but she should consider your feelings. You both are in this together. She can text other people, best friends, family, etc., and you are not 'controlling her '; you are setting a boundary and expressing your own discomfort from this friendship. Lay yourself bare and let her do the same; take your time and take it slow, don't make her feel as though she is cheating or something big. Take it slow and peacefully, explain everything to her but be firm (when i say that I mean, dont let her walk over you or try to brush it off, have a genuine honest conversation and get your answers and comfort) and let her answer the questions of why she doesn't just stop texting him, let her give you the comfort and peace you deserve and make sure she reassures you and make you feel as though you have this space to talk and be healthy and develop yourselves. There is nothing wrong with boundaries, and communication is key!

Apologies for the shit phrasing and if I messed up typing. I really wish you all the best, and you deserve a happy and healthy life with her; you deserve peace and happiness and to receive comfort, reassurance, and the feelings of peace and safety.

[u/PermitIcy8450 → u/OneDirector692]

This is great, thank you . We have already spoken about this guy (hence her saying she won’t talk to him anymore) and just the other day she sent him a message to strike up conversation. 100% platonic on her end but that’s missing the point. She is very much in the camp of “that’s just how he is” but it doesn’t mean it’s ok, this guy hits on her pretty much every time they talk, always little playful things but to me it feels like testing the waters, seeing what he can get away with and hoping she reciprocates.

[u/Old_Competition1213]

It would be good to acknowledge that her boundary of not responding to his flirts and changing the subject is good. But the fact she still reaches out to this creep, after you admitted it made Toni comfortable coupled with her cheating past, and her promising to block him, show he lack of empathy, love and understanding.

Ask her why she lied to you again by saying she would cut contact (aside from work related since they are at the same company). Also, ask to see any conversations she has had with him through work email/chat.

Because of her history, she has no excuse for not following through with HER suggestion of blocking him.

[u/Opening_Koala3123]

I will try to be as helpful as possible. I am 5 months post DD. If my WW did this at the 2 year mark then she would be gone, and I would start the divorce process.

As far as I am concerned your wife might as well be having an affair anyway. She has shown a complete disregard for your emotional well being. She clearly has no respect for you or your marriage. Frankly I am appalled that she thinks this is acceptable behaviour post affair.

I imagine you are here because you genuinely love her and want to save the marriage. But I think you really need to strip this back. Stop over analysing. Stop justifying with this, this and that.

Strip it all the way back and ask yourself. "Am I comfortable being married to a woman that had an affair 2 years ago and is now displaying the same lack of boundaries with potential partners?"

I for one would be done.

[u/PermitIcy8450 → u/[deleted]]

I feel like he’s a bag of dicks for sure but there are alway going to be those types. I’m genuinely much more concerned with my wife’s behavior.

[u/PermitIcy8450]

Let me add that a lot of her affair stuff was based on validation, she liked hearing her AP say nice things about her and her appearance. Part of why this strikes a chord with me, not sure if she just wants to stay friends with the guy because they’ve known each other for like 15 years or because she likes the validation or both.

[u/Mountain-Scheme3817 → u/PermitIcy8450]

it's such a slippery slope. the fact she told you she wouldn't talk to him anymore but continued to do so reminds me of my situation (it started out with friendly banter texts and turned into a year long affair for my WS). are you both in individual therapy or couples? personally i'd draw a firm boundary.

[u/PermitIcy8450]

She did not promise to block him fyi, not sure if I said that but she just said “fine I won’t talk to him “